I desperately need your help. Please. Worried mom here.

[worriedmom]

Hi guys. This may sound too much to ask but I am a mother of a 15 year old high school student who is currently researching on how the brain works. She was asked to describe what does the brain do after it was off working, describe every hour. She spent hours and days at the library looking for some answers but it confused her more. She is scheduled to present this report in her science subject tomorrow and it frightens her that she will be presenting a wrong information.

Since I came across this board once and saw how informative the site was, I decided to ask you young doctors to help my daughter to understand what the human brain does after it was off working. I have no idea all about this, but I know you guys are all knowledgeable about the brain function and stuff. I just wanted to help my daughter in my own little way cause she has other homeworks to do also.

I thank you all in advance and any reply will be greatly and gladly appreciated.

God Bless you all.

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[worriedmom]

No one responded yet? Ohh please, help. Anyone?

 

[dizzyorange]

If this is a serious post please understand that your wording is confusing. What does "off working" mean? Your best bet here, considering that your child is probably in 10th grade, is Wikipedia. Many schools don't allow Wikipedia to be used as a source, just use it anyway and then search amazon for the names of some books on the brain and pretend those were the sources you used.

Best of luck.

 

[worriedmom]

I am serious dizzyorange. I honestly would not spend my time tracking this topic if I am not. Sorry if I confused you, what I meant was when the brain shuts off. I was searching online too, and I learned that the Brain shuts off after a period of time but the article did not mention enough details why the brain shuts off and what happen after.

She tried wikipedia already and she even borrowed books at the library but she did not get enough information.

 

[dizzyorange]

Do you mean when the brain shuts off when a person falls asleep, or when a person dies? There are also different levels to look at this: i.e. molecular/biochemical or electrically or in terms of gross anatomy.

The short answer: nobody knows for sure. Not even neurosurgeons. A 15 year old kid certainly can't be expected to know.

A good presentation topic might be: what happens to the brain's electrical activity as a person falls asleep. (It goes from one type of wave pattern to another).

This page has more than enough information for a presentation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography

Good luck.

 

[worriedmom]

I really appreciate your quick reply dizzyorange. Let's assume they meant brain shuts off when a person falls asleep, can you just give me a brief idea what does the brain do during and after it shuts off?

Thanks a lot.

 

[smq123]

I really appreciate your quick reply dizzyorange. Let's assume they meant brain shuts off when a person falls asleep, can you just give me a brief idea what does the brain do during and after it shuts off?

Thanks a lot.

The information that you're seeking seems much too advanced for a 15 year old, and the level at which we learn it is also more than she needs to present.

That being said - you probably already know what the brain does after it "shuts off" when a person goes to sleep. What do you do when you sleep that you don't do when you're awake? You dream. You consolidate memory, and confirm what you learned during the day.

This article might be useful:

http://sommeil.univ-lyon1.fr/articles/jouvet/scientific_american/p1.html

 

[worriedmom]

I know what you mean smq123. That is the reason why I came here myself to help her find some information. What her teacher asked her to research is what does the brain do after it shuts off during sleep and she was asked to present after it shuts off hour by hour. Jeeezzz.

Thanks so much smq123. Now atleast she has an idea.

 

[Begaster]

Okay, first off, the brain DOES NOT shut off when you go to sleep. It shuts off when you die.

You're asking for an hour by hour breakdown, though. I'm assuming your daughter has made a mistake as to what she's looking for. I'm guessing that you're looking for information on sleep wave patterns (as they do change quite a few times over the course of a night and it would be at the level of a tenth grader). The wiki link above explains it.

 

[MSTPbound]

Worriedmom,

Sorry if this is too late, but I don't have much other useful info to add - everything else in this thread is pretty accurate.

If I were advising a 15 yr old on how to approach this, I would focus the project on electroencephalography, but I would use the term "BRAIN WAVES". I would talk about the relationship between different kinds of waves and what they tell us about activity in the brain. Then I would get some internet info. about the different stages of sleep and present the way each of those waves tends to change.

I think the Wiki resource above is great... otherwise, I would just Google "brain waves" to put the report together.

I think this might be an example of an appropriate resource:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/SamanthaCharles.shtml


Hope it turned out OK. Keep this in mind for the future - perhaps this venture piques your daughter's interest in neuroscience - and who knows where that can go!

Best,

-MSTPbound

 

[Myempire1]

I am not exactly sure if I understand your question either but..... from what I understand..... The brain does not "shut off" when you got to sleep but the brain "activity" changes. Physicians can record changes in brain activity by measuring electrical responses in the brain (see links above). I also would focus on the EEG changes that occur when sleeping. The EEGs record the voltage under the scalp electrodes over time. Over time, there is rhythmic pattern of voltage changes. This patter changes as you sleep and during certain disease states.

When you are awake, there is a 9-11 hertz frequency (alpha) rhythm which is most dominant in the back of your skull (called occipital dominance). This rhythm is changed by many many factors such as eye opening. There are several stages of sleep: I, II, III, IV, and REM. In I, you are drowsy and the frequency of the rhythm slows down so you get periods of lower frequency (theta, 4-7 hz). In stage II, you get more slowing down, so that more of your time is spent in theta frequency. In fact, you spend a little of your time in delta frequency (less than 4 hz). In this part, you get things called sleep spindles. During stages III and IV, you get more and more delta activity. Finally, you go into REM sleep which kinda looks like stage 1 sleep, but with lower voltage. During REM, you can get runs of 9-11 hz activity. On average, the amount of total time spent in each phase of sleep is divided as follows: stage I=less than 5%, 2=40-60%, 3 and 4=10-20%, and REM=18-25%.

Sorry for the long winded response but hopefully this helps.

 

[Doctor]

Many schools don't allow Wikipedia to be used as a source, just use it anyway and then search amazon for the names of some books on the brain and pretend those were the sources you used.

Did you do this in college? If you had done that at my school, you probably wouldn't be in medical school right now.

 

[Flopotomist]

Did you do this in college? If you had done that at my school, you probably wouldn't be in medical school right now.

I have to defend Wikipedia now - as a second year medical student I use it all the time, and find that it often has information more current than my textbooks. It is also concise, easy to understand, and peer-reviewed for accuracy. I certainly would not judge anybody harshly for using wikipedia to get a better understanding of any topic that they had interest in learning more about... it is certainly better than sending your mother out to do the work for you!

 

[dienekes88]

I have to defend Wikipedia now - as a second year medical student I use it all the time, and find that it often has information more current than my textbooks. It is also concise, easy to understand, and peer-reviewed for accuracy. I certainly would not judge anybody harshly for using wikipedia to get a better understanding of any topic that they had interest in learning more about... it is certainly better than sending your mother out to do the work for you!

I think Doctor was taking issue with the idea of faking sources.

 

[Doctor]

I think Doctor was taking issue with the idea of faking sources.

Yeah, that was it! At my college, people would get expelled for that every year... so most people would never try it.

I have to defend Wikipedia now - as a second year medical student I use it all the time, and find that it often has information more current than my textbooks. It is also concise, easy to understand, and peer-reviewed for accuracy. I certainly would not judge anybody harshly for using wikipedia to get a better understanding of any topic that they had interest in learning more about... it is certainly better than sending your mother out to do the work for you!

As for Wikipedia itself, I was once one of the top 1000 editors on that site (based on # of edits), as of about early 2005 or so. It's grown by leaps and bounds since then, but I'm still disillusioned with the inaccuracies that pop up on less-traveled pages since inevitably some random person will come and sabotage it subtlely... every once in a while, uncited things that sound like they could be true are not caught for months or even over a year. Same thing for things that are falsely cited... there are very few people who will ever check the source... I'd say with 60-80% of the articles, the ones that not a lot of people care a lot about, none of the sources have ever been checked.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Why has no one addressed the issue of "worriedmom" being so hyped up about her precious snowflake's sophomore science report that she finds sdn, signs up (again, as worriedmom) and repeatedly seeks information from neurosurgeons-to-be about this ridiculous topic?

Mom-- by far the best thing you can do for your daughter is LET GO OF HER FREAKING HAND and let her to do it herself.

 

[IcedTea]

Worriedmom, I think this is the wrong place to be asking your question. Yes, this site is very informative and does have knowledgeable people (like me) but it is not the place to be asking about information on brain waves. You're also asking on the Neurosurgery forum, which even though it has the word "neuro" in it, also has the word "surgery" after it.

As others have suggested, you can search Wikipedia for the answer or go to the library and find a book that deals extensively with the nervous system. I'm sure there are websites where you can find this information as well.

 

[Alien123]

For crying out loud answer the lady's question.

The state of being awake is maintained by excitatory brainstem neurons (ARAS) exciting the cerebral cortex which is responsible for consciousness, judgement, higher thought, etc. During the initiation of sleep, inhibitory GABA-nergic neurons shut off the ARAS allowing the cortex to become dormant and less excited (this causes the changes in the EEG wave patterns). REM sleep occurs when a second group of ascending excitatory neurons in the brainstem excites various parts of the brain in a random fashion creating dreams.

Honestly, I only studied neuroscience while watching stargate during my first year and even I know the answer to this one. Why are you guys posting on a neurosurgery board if you don't actually know basic neuro stuff.

 

[IcedTea]

For crying out loud answer the lady's question.

The state of being awake is maintained by excitatory brainstem neurons (ARAS) exciting the cerebral cortex which is responsible for consciousness, judgement, higher thought, etc. During the initiation of sleep, inhibitory GABA-nergic neurons shut off the ARAS allowing the cortex to become dormant and less excited (this causes the changes in the EEG wave patterns). REM sleep occurs when a second group of ascending excitatory neurons in the brainstem excites various parts of the brain in a random fashion creating dreams.

Honestly, I only studied neuroscience while watching stargate during my first year and even I know the answer to this one. Why are you guys posting on a neurosurgery board if you don't actually know basic neuro stuff.

Who says you have to know basic neuroscience to post on a neurosurgery board?

This thread is 3 months old by the way, I doubt worriedmom will reply. Hopefully, she has found her answer by now.

 

[Mr Cookie Pants]

Who says you have to know basic neuroscience to post on a neurosurgery board?

This thread is 3 months old by the way, I doubt worriedmom will reply. Hopefully, she has found her answer by now.

Especially since school's out and snowflake's book report is probably long overdue...