Husband blames racism for wife’s death after C-section at Cedars-Sinai in civil suit

[agammaglobulin]

Husband blames racism for wife's death

17 minute C/S with intrabdominal bleeding does not look good...Not sure how you prove racism vs regular old malpractice here.

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[anesussy]

Agree that it would be hard to prove definitively, but the family's website has some damning statistics. (Home - 4 Kira 4 Moms)

"Black women are 4x’s more likely to die than White women from pregnancy or childbirth complications."

They don't have a source that I can find, but if that's true it's pretty distressing. What the nurse allegedly said to the patient's husband ("your wife isn't a priority right now") is interesting considering Cedars-Sinai literally has VIP sections.

It would be interesting to see what % of the VIPs are minorities vs white. And even of the white VIPs, what % are Jewish?

 

[dannyboy1]

Agree that it would be hard to prove definitively, but the family's website has some damning statistics. (Home - 4 Kira 4 Moms)

"Black women are 4x’s more likely to die than White women from pregnancy or childbirth complications."

They don't have a source that I can find, but if that's true it's pretty distressing. What the nurse allegedly said to the patient's husband ("your wife isn't a priority right now") is interesting considering Cedars-Sinai literally has VIP sections.

It would be interesting to see what % of the VIPs are minorities vs white. And even of the white VIPs, what % are Jewish?

This is absurd. She had a post operative bleed and was not transfused/reexplored quickly enough. Family will get paid because it is a catastrophic outcome in a young patient with clear malpractice. No need to resort to claims of racism….

 

[Twiggidy]

Good lord. Take the patient back and look for bleeding.

 

[Twiggidy]

This is absurd. She had a post operative bleed and was not transfused/reexplored quickly enough. Family will get paid because it is a catastrophic outcome in a young patient with clear malpractice. No need to resort to claims of racism….

I'm not ready to say there wasn't bias involved somewhere in the case, but I will say, you you keep the racism card in the pocket for a bit longer you'll get more sympathy and less cynicism.

 

[sethco]

It would be interesting to see what % of the VIPs are minorities vs white. And even of the white VIPs, what % are Jewish?

Could you clarify? Do you think/believe Jewish people get better or worse treatment than other religions?

 

[anesussy]

Could you clarify? Do you think/believe Jewish people get better or worse treatment than other religions?

I didn't say that. I said that at Cedars-Sinai, a Jewish hospital with VIP sections, I would be interested in seeing if Jews were overrepresented in the VIP section relative to the pleb section. With that said, the null hypothesis would still be that there is no difference in representation between the two sections.

 

[nimbus]

VIPs are at risk for VIP syndrome leading to worse outcomes.

We had a partner who trained at Stanford where foundation donors were given a cardinal red blanket. She said she and the other residents called it “the red blanket of death.”

 

[nimbus]

There’s also this near miss. Former world #1 tennis champion married to billionaire Reddit founder.

Serena Williams' Nurse Called Her 'Crazy' During Pregnancy Blood Clot Issue

Serena Williams suffered a pulmonary embolism after giving birth, leaving her bedridden for several weeks and delaying her return to the court for training.

www.newsweek.com

What Serena Williams’s scary childbirth story says about medical treatment of black women

Black women are often dismissed or ignored by medical care providers. Williams wasn’t an exception.

www.vox.com

 

[Twiggidy]

There’s also this near miss. Former world #1 tennis champion married to billionaire Reddit founder.

Serena Williams' Nurse Called Her 'Crazy' During Pregnancy Blood Clot Issue

Serena Williams suffered a pulmonary embolism after giving birth, leaving her bedridden for several weeks and delaying her return to the court for training.

www.newsweek.com

What Serena Williams’s scary childbirth story says about medical treatment of black women

Black women are often dismissed or ignored by medical care providers. Williams wasn’t an exception.

www.vox.com

It goes back to the Stanford study on bias in perception of pain. Im too lazy to look it up, but I think it's a real thing, and my non-researched hypothesis believes it effects outcomes. I can especially see it in a VIP because someone who could be in real pain (like Serena) is called crazy because the staff "thinks" they're being super needy, when they are in actual pain.

In this case presented, I don't see how you ignore post-op bleeding and pain for 10 hrs in someone who had abdominal surgery.

 

[UscGhost]

Like any other hospital...just because it's cedars doesn't mean all the Doctors are good.

 

[Zekchar]

I didn't say that.

It sure sounded that way. Cedar Sinai is no more a Jewish hospital than is any other Jewish sounding one. Mount Sinai also has the name Sinai in it and is no more a Jewish hospital than Cedar Sinai than is St. John's hospital in randomville. A bigoted statement is a bigoted statement.

 

[GassYous]

It sure sounded that way. Cedar Sinai is no more a Jewish hospital than is any other Jewish sounding one. Mount Sinai also has the name Sinai in it and is no more a Jewish hospital than Cedar Sinai than is St. John's hospital in randomville. A bigoted statement is a bigoted statement.

what lol

 

[IMGASMD]

17 mins seems fast. The fastest I’ve been in is ~30 mins. But to say due to racism, is a stretch. Is the OB just fast in general? I would compare their own average time.

Is the team “really” doing something more important? Did they at least send a resident to check on the patient? Even with the nurses comment, it’s still a stretch. How will they “prove” the event was due to racism?

 

[DrOwnage]

How will they “prove” the event was due to racism?

They can't. However these days all you need to do is fit a narrative, grab media attention, get the loudest people on your side and people will pay to make it go away. This works for anything, not just medical tragedies, which is what this was.

 

[james775]

The people commenting, “it can’t be due to racism” or you can’t prove it etc. are any of you minorities? You may think that’s a stupid question. However, it definitely influences your opinion on this subject.

 

[IMGASMD]

The people commenting, “it can’t be due to racism” or you can’t prove it etc. are any of you minorities? You may think that’s a stupid question. However, it definitely influences your opinion on this subject.

I am.
Living it everyday. It’s the reality for me and my little one.
I can say I feel it everyday, sometimes it’s even from other minorities.

If you don’t know, since I don’t see your name here often, I am super jaded about the whole industry/institution we call medicine. But on a individual level, I still believe that we are here to do good. I cannot imaging me, personally, regardless how much I dislike the other group, to consciously deliver subpar care.

 

[anesussy]

It sure sounded that way. Cedar Sinai is no more a Jewish hospital than is any other Jewish sounding one. Mount Sinai also has the name Sinai in it and is no more a Jewish hospital than Cedar Sinai than is St. John's hospital in randomville. A bigoted statement is a bigoted statement.

Interesting points. Well, I can't really argue with how it sounded to you, since that is an inherently subjective thing.

 

[Twiggidy]

This was a tragedy. Full stop. There was poor post-surgical decision making involved and that can't be denied.

Was it full on racism? I doubt it.
Is there some unconscious bias at play here that probably involves a deeper discussion? Yes.

 

[USCTrojan11]

It sure sounded that way. Cedar Sinai is no more a Jewish hospital than is any other Jewish sounding one. Mount Sinai also has the name Sinai in it and is no more a Jewish hospital than Cedar Sinai than is St. John's hospital in randomville. A bigoted statement is a bigoted statement.

While that may be true most places, you have to consider the surrounding area. Look at the hospital board. Look at their donors. This part of la is filled with Jewish people who absolutely adore Cedars. Heck you get people who drive from the valley and even Santa Barbara to go to cedars - passing all the Ucla, Kaiser and Reuter private hospitals on the way

- someone who rotated through, attends a bunch of cedars fundraisers, family works for cedars

 

[Mman]

racial disparities in maternal mortality statistics are quite well known and shown statistically, within the US and within other countries.

But my quasi scientific interpretation of that data is it has a lot to do with overall maternal health indicators, prenatal care disparities, etc. Showing differences at the surgical technique/decision making level probably impossible to show.

 

[undalay]

We all know how it is running busy Or schedules with add ons and surgeons who have elective cases all day long. Try telling no to an elective case and who gets bumped becomes a problem. You need dedicated team for emergencies and may be they had several on that day. Some one had a lapse of judgement in not accurately assessing the severity of this patient. May be some resident missed it, not giving excuses here, but this is real shortage of staff everywhere including or nurses. Or charge and physician involved in post op care off this patient including anesthesia area at fault

Let’s not bring religion and socioeconomic disparity into this conversations and derail the whole thread. This should be a learning case for all of us

 

[zizzer]

We all know how it is running busy Or schedules with add ons and surgeons who have elective cases all day long. Try telling no to an elective case and who gets bumped becomes a problem. You need dedicated team for emergencies and may be they had several on that day. Some one had a lapse of judgement in not accurately assessing the severity of this patient. May be some resident missed it, not giving excuses here, but this is real shortage of staff everywhere including or nurses. Or charge and physician involved in post op care off this patient including anesthesia area at fault

Let’s not bring religion and socioeconomic disparity into this conversations and derail the whole thread. This should be a learning case for all of us

Sinus tachycardia postoperatively in a young female should always prompt a rule-out of a bleeding complication, as it's easy to miss for somebody inexperienced since patients compensate so well (until they suddenly don't). I almost missed it once during my PACU rotation as a resident, and have heard similar stories to this one of other unfortunate post-C/S deaths.

 

[Radetzky]

OBGYNs seem to operate more on the urinary system than they do the actual reproductive organs.

 

[GassYous]

Sinus tachycardia postoperatively in a young female should always prompt a rule-out of a bleeding complication, as it's easy to miss for somebody inexperienced since patients compensate so well (until they suddenly don't). I almost missed it once during my PACU rotation as a resident, and have heard similar stories to this one of other unfortunate post-C/S deaths.

What lady on ob doesn't have sinus tachy

 

[Planktonmd]

This is crazy! This could be malpractice but trying to call it racism is simply absurd.
This type of accusation is very degrading to the medical profession and it opens the door to defensive behaviors down the road.
If this becomes a concern that medical professionals have to take into consideration it will actually result in reluctance treating people from certain minorities. This can actually result in true racism.

 

[chocomorsel]

She’s the daughter in law of Judge Hatchett. I read about this story years ago probably right after it happened. It’s been on the news for years.
Racism will be difficult to prove. But unconscious bias is a real thing and does affect outcomes. I believe that is what the family believe happened. Had it been a White woman with a White husband her White husbands’ complaints would have been taken more seriously.
Sad to see and very difficult to understand why they ignored her for so long.

 

[dannyboy1]

I am.
Living it everyday. It’s the reality for me and my little one.
I can say I feel it everyday, sometimes it’s even from other minorities.

If you don’t know, since I don’t see your name here often, I am super jaded about the whole industry/institution we call medicine. But on a individual level, I still believe that we are here to do good. I cannot imaging me, personally, regardless how much I dislike the other group, to consciously deliver subpar care.

Our shop recently had an OB disaster. Patient was white. Maybe instead of a disaster we can call it “ contributing to racial equality “ ….

 

[james775]

She’s the daughter in law of Judge Hatchett. I read about this story years ago probably right after it happened. It’s been on the news for years.
Racism will be difficult to prove. But unconscious bias is a real thing and does affect outcomes. I believe that is what the family believe happened. Had it been a White woman with a White husband her White husbands’ complaints would have been taken more seriously.
Sad to see and very difficult to understand why they ignored her for so long.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is saying they actively went out of their way not to treat her. However, there probably was bias in their treatment. I’m not a minority so I haven’t felt that way. HOWEVER, so many minorities have told me they feel their concerns aren’t taken as seriously. At some point you gotta believe them. It’s easy for us to be like “nah that’s happening” but if the people living it say it is, I’m inclined to believe them.

 

[Planktonmd]

She’s the daughter in law of Judge Hatchett. I read about this story years ago probably right after it happened. It’s been on the news for years.
Racism will be difficult to prove. But unconscious bias is a real thing and does affect outcomes. I believe that is what the family believe happened. Had it been a White woman with a White husband her White husbands’ complaints would have been taken more seriously.
Sad to see and very difficult to understand why they ignored her for so long.

I would say they ignored her/his complaints because that's what happens when you work in an environment where everyone complains, it's called alarm fatigue not racism.
It might be also incompetence and gross negligence which happens everyday everywhere regardless of skin color or race.

 

[chocomorsel]

I would say they ignored her/his complaints because that's what happens when you work in an environment where everyone complains, it's called alarm fatigue not racism.
It might be also incompetence and gross negligence which happens everyday everywhere regardless of skin color or race.

12 hours? Really? With no one taking him seriously? No one checking on her bleeding?
As a minority, I can tell you these things happen. Minorities get ignored and are labeled dramatic and histrionic and exaggerate.
They have happened to me and people I know. Where’s a White man complains and boom, stuff happens.

 

[chocomorsel]

Our shop recently had an OB disaster. Patient was white. Maybe instead of a disaster we can call it “ contributing to racial equality “ ….

And this is what I am talking about. A minority brings up a concern and people refuse
To believe it’s real and then pull out an example of a bad thing happening to White folks and make fun of it. It’s all in our heads I am sure.
I mean ok. Yeah, continue to contribute to racial equality.

They ignored her for 12 hours as her husband complained about something valid.

 

[chocomorsel]

I would say they ignored her/his complaints because that's what happens when you work in an environment where everyone complains, it's called alarm fatigue not racism.
It might be also incompetence and gross negligence which happens everyday everywhere regardless of skin color or race.

For 10- 12 hours? Really?

 

[IMGASMD]

I would say they ignored her/his complaints because that's what happens when you work in an environment where everyone complains, it's called alarm fatigue not racism.
It might be also incompetence and gross negligence which happens everyday everywhere regardless of skin color or race.

Was listening to NPR the other day, it was a nurse who wrote a book recently. Something she said struck me.

She always told her patient to be self advocate, until she became a patient herself. She was happy when someone told her that she’s a “good patient”.

It’s a hard balance, especially as minorities. People already have their preconceived notion when they first meet them/me. As a Non-native English speaker, it’s even more apparent when I open my mouth.

But as someone who frequently have to deal with non-native speakers/racial minorities myself, I also understand how frustrating that experience is.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is saying they actively went out of their way not to treat her. However, there probably was bias in their treatment. I’m not a minority so I haven’t felt that way. HOWEVER, so many minorities have told me they feel their concerns aren’t taken as seriously. At some point you gotta believe them. It’s easy for us to be like “nah that’s happening” but if the people living it say it is, I’m inclined to believe them.

Systemic bias, I am sure plays some parts. But racism? That’s a high bar to clear.

I like to tell medical students that stereotype for each speciality is there, because it’s mostly true. We all do it subconsciously to certain degree. Is that racism? Specialism?

We all practice some of that everyday. But when you start calling a tragic/system failure, due to racism. It will just make it so much harder to prevent it the next time.

Our shop recently had an OB disaster. Patient was white. Maybe instead of a disaster we can call it “ contributing to racial equality “ ….

Leveling the field…..

 

[Beeftenderloin]

My initial though was okay, I guess systemic bias MIGHT have contributed, but thats awfully hard to prove and although tragic, this was most likely just somebody dropping the ball. The more I read though, the more I think it likely played some role. 12 hours is a long time, not to mention she’s the daughter of a celebrity. And not just any celebrity, someone who became famous for being a judge (say what you want about the quality of the TV show but she’s no Dr. Phil, she got her JD from Emory). Caring for lawyers and family members of lawyers (let alone famous TV lawyers) typically puts everyone on their best behavior. Especially in LA of all places where celebrity means more than anything. The fact that all that was ignored makes me think there was an extra layer of apathy here beyond just people being busy with other tasks.

Maybe it’s all above board and this is just run of the mill negligence, maybe it’s not. At the very least it raises eyebrows. For context, this is the same institution that allowed that AK47 guy to kill Bill Paxton then quietly scurry off to another hospital without recourse.

Edit: Only reason I bring up the Paxton case is to suggest that Cedars is not immune from hiring and credentialing dangerous and/or negligent providers.

 

[anbuitachi]

its malpractice

 

[anonperson]

The people commenting, “it can’t be due to racism” or you can’t prove it etc. are any of you minorities? You may think that’s a stupid question. However, it definitely influences your opinion on this subject.

There are two main issues with this case:

1. Poorly done c section
17 minutes is fast. Probably too fast. Especially since she had intraperitoneal bleeding. The hysterotomy wasn't closed well or there was a uterine extension that wasn't identified. If this was uterine atony, it would have been noticed by nursing.

Similarly, a bladder laceration that wasn't identified is a bad look. That isn't a fatal injury but to zip through a c section and get that looks very bad.

It's odd that what looks like a scheduled repeat c section in a non laboring patient went to hell.

For this issue, this is straight up incompetence by the OB. From what I have read, the OB is a minority as well.

2. Nursing issue

The patient was having hematuria and probably some vital sign issues. Did they contact the OB or even the residents?

This is where racism can come into play if you have a nurse blowing off a patient concern.

What is odd is where I am at, some nurses love to call the physician for any type of BS and document in the EMR " Notified physician etc".

The racism angle/bias will have some play. May just be straight up incompetent nursing.

Who knows?

Cedars will have to cut a check though if nursing was found to be deficient in their case.

Similarly the physician will need to pay up.

 

[nimbus]

There are two main issues with this case:

1. Poorly done c section
17 minutes is fast. Probably too fast. Especially since she had intraperitoneal bleeding. The hysterotomy wasn't closed well or there was a uterine extension that wasn't identified. If this was uterine atony, it would have been noticed by nursing.

Similarly, a bladder laceration that wasn't identified is a bad look. That isn't a fatal injury but to zip through a c section and get that looks very bad.

It's odd that what looks like a scheduled repeat c section in a non laboring patient went to hell.

For this issue, this is straight up incompetence by the OB. From what I have read, the OB is a minority as well.

2. Nursing issue

The patient was having hematuria and probably some vital sign issues. Did they contact the OB or even the residents?

This is where racism can come into play if you have a nurse blowing off a patient concern.

What is odd is where I am at, some nurses love to call the physician for any type of BS and document in the EMR " Notified physician etc".

The racism angle/bias will have some play. May just be straight up incompetent nursing.

Who knows?

Cedars will have to cut a check though if nursing was found to be deficient in their case.

Similarly the physician will need to pay up.

This is the timeline from the husband’s website. Looks like a lot of dropped balls by physicians too.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If that account true, that OB's insurance company should just go ahead and throw money at this woman's husband.

That's egregious enough it might warrant medical board action.

 

[anonperson]

This is the timeline from the husband’s website. Looks like a lot of dropped balls by physicians too.

View attachment 354387

View attachment 354388

Thank you for the information.

This seems mainly like a physician issue based on the timeline. So many opportunities for the OB to intervene but didn't. Not sure how racism would come into play. Just incompetence.

The "expectant management " line is especially damning.

 

[epidural man]

I am in the now minority and hated class of being a white heterosexual male - I mention that just as background.

Maybe this was racism? I really hope not. I want to believe it wasn't. I understand the issue of "black tax" my African-American friends have told me about.

But my question is this. Let's say it could be, or it couldn't be racist, and there is no way to know.

Does calling it racism help? Does making us more divided move us forward? If you tell me that I have an unconscious bias that I can't overcome - it will drive me towards tribalism (as others have mentioned). I don't want to mistreat people. I want to be fair, and kind, and professional, and compassionate. But if I am told that anytime I take care of a minority, I am not those things even though I don't know I am being biased - shouldn't my response be "well I DONT want to mistreat people. I don't want to be that person. So the real answer is that I shouldn't take care of any minorities." Is that really what we want to do?

I just don't see how that helps.

Teach me. How does that help - calling things the worst and most ugly words in society right now ("racist")?

 

[psychbender]

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

 

[Dr. Rude]

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

“Tell me the difference between stupid and illegal and I’ll have my wife’s brother arrested.”

The Big Short

Malice requires intent. There is just no way to know what was in the hearts and the heads of the people taking care of this poor patient.

 

[chocomorsel]

That timeline is terrible.
They have an anesthesiology residency. I am wondering how the anesthesia residents and attendings were kept out of the loop on this one. I mean is it so big and volume heavy that the anesthesia department had no clue of a post op bleeding patient?

 

[james775]

I am in the now minority and hated class of being a white heterosexual male - I mention that just as background.

Maybe this was racism? I really hope not. I want to believe it wasn't. I understand the issue of "black tax" my African-American friends have told me about.

But my question is this. Let's say it could be, or it couldn't be racist, and there is no way to know.

Does calling it racism help? Does making us more divided move us forward? If you tell me that I have an unconscious bias that I can't overcome - it will drive me towards tribalism (as others have mentioned). I don't want to mistreat people. I want to be fair, and kind, and professional, and compassionate. But if I am told that anytime I take care of a minority, I am not those things even though I don't know I am being biased - shouldn't my response be "well I DONT want to mistreat people. I don't want to be that person. So the real answer is that I shouldn't take care of any minorities." Is that really what we want to do?

I just don't see how that helps.

Teach me. How does that help - calling things the worst and most ugly words in society right now ("racist")?

Bro what is this post? Do you want people to feel sorry for you for being a white Herero male? Like what are you even saying. Yes, things like this need to get pointed out. Make people think about it. Make people acknowledge that bias can exist. Look at this thread! Half the people don’t think bias played a role.

It helps because it makes people confront themselves. It makes you think about your views. I know I have become more cognizant in the past 10 years.

 

[psychbender]

That timeline is terrible.
They have an anesthesiology residency. I am wondering how the anesthesia residents and attendings were kept out of the loop on this one. I mean is it so big and volume heavy that the anesthesia department had no clue of a post op bleeding patient?

Maybe those two physicians performing the bedside ultrasound noting the hematoma and fluid were an anesthesiologist and resident? Performing a FAST exam, then being ignored sounds like something that anesthesia residents would do at an academic hospital.

 

[chocomorsel]

Bro what is this post? Do you want people to feel sorry for you for being a white Herero male? Like what are you even saying. Yes, things like this need to get pointed out. Make people think about it. Make people acknowledge that bias can exist. Look at this thread! Half the people don’t think bias played a role.

It helps because it makes people confront themselves. It makes you think about your views. I know I have become more cognizant in the past 10 years.

This sentiment of “I am now the hated White Male Hetero” is becoming quite prevalent.
Don’t even know if people really think this out before they type.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

This sentiment of “I am now the hated White Male Heteromale” is becoming quite prevalent.

It's a microcosm of the right-wing MAGA trump grievance culture.

 

[psychbender]

“Tell me the difference between stupid and illegal and I’ll have my wife’s brother arrested.”

The Big Short

Malice requires intent. There is just no way to know what was in the hearts and the heads of the people taking care of this poor patient.

Precisely. Never attribute to mal intent what can be explained by just being absolutely terrible at one's job. That was part of my mantra working in military medicine. Some people just suck so bad, that they might as well be actively trying to cause harm.

 

[anaesthetic]

I am in the now minority and hated class of being a white heterosexual male - I mention that just as background.

Maybe this was racism? I really hope not. I want to believe it wasn't. I understand the issue of "black tax" my African-American friends have told me about.

But my question is this. Let's say it could be, or it couldn't be racist, and there is no way to know.

Does calling it racism help? Does making us more divided move us forward? If you tell me that I have an unconscious bias that I can't overcome - it will drive me towards tribalism (as others have mentioned). I don't want to mistreat people. I want to be fair, and kind, and professional, and compassionate. But if I am told that anytime I take care of a minority, I am not those things even though I don't know I am being biased - shouldn't my response be "well I DONT want to mistreat people. I don't want to be that person. So the real answer is that I shouldn't take care of any minorities." Is that really what we want to do?

I just don't see how that helps.

Teach me. How does that help - calling things the worst and most ugly words in society right now ("racist")?

Are you sure you understand the issue at hand? I don’t think you do, to be quite honest.

It helps because there are many people in your every day life, in your physicians’ lounges, in your ORs, and on this board who don’t believe that systemic racism exists despite overwhelming evidence that suggests otherwise.

How does it help? By forcing the “silent majority” to look at themselves and their “great nation” in the mirror and acknowledge that there are huge differences in how minorities are treated compared to their white counterparts across all systems, not just healthcare.

We’re not even at this stage yet. We can’t even acknowledge that there are any disparities. Whether or not this case is related to that is unfortunately irrelevant to the true issue at hand.