How is a PA different from an MD

[CenteredDoc]

I know this is probably one of the dumbest questions ever asked, but what is the difference? I mean obviously they have to complete different programs, but how do their jobs differ? If you plan to specialize in cardio or neuro, then their is a clear difference bt PA and MD, but what if you just want to go into Family Practice?

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[OSUdoc08]

I know this is probably one of the dumbest questions ever asked, but what is the difference? I mean obviously they have to complete different programs, but how do their jobs differ? If you plan to specialize in cardio or neuro, then their is a clear difference bt PA and MD, but what if you just want to go into Family Practice?

PA is a master's degree

MD is a doctorate

A PA is basically the same thing as an NP, both of which could be considered halfway between a physician and a nurse. A PA/NP or other mid-level practitioner can see patients, but still needs physician approval on most everything and cannot do complex procedures.

This obvious difference is the level of education and pay. It may not be completely clear in a family practice setting what the difference is, other than the physician signs all of the papers and makes the final decisions.

 

[deleted6669]

PA is a master's degree

MD is a doctorate

A PA is basically the same thing as an NP, both of which could be considered halfway between a physician and a nurse. A PA/NP or other mid-level practitioner can see patients, but still needs physician approval on most everything and cannot do complex procedures.

This obvious difference is the level of education and pay. It may not be completely clear in a family practice setting what the difference is, other than the physician signs all of the papers and makes the final decisions.

I was with you up until that last sentence. pa's and np's who work in primary care frequently serve as pcp's and have their own pt panels. they have their own dea #s and sign off on all paperwork and decisions regarding their panel. while md oversight is required it is typically in the form of chart review that happens after the pt has left the facility, sometimes up to a month later. in my state the supervision requirement is 10% of charts chosen by me within 1 month. that being said,a prudent pa or np will seek guidance from an md if they encounter a situation they are not familiar with and will refer pts out to specialty services for evaluations or procedures beyond their training and expertise. a new grad pa or np needs significantly more supervision than one that has been out of school for years.
general pa info: www.aapa.org
info on optional pa residencies www.appap.org

 

[silas2642]

I know this is probably one of the dumbest questions ever asked, but what is the difference? I mean obviously they have to complete different programs, but how do their jobs differ? If you plan to specialize in cardio or neuro, then their is a clear difference bt PA and MD, but what if you just want to go into Family Practice?

You can be a PA and specialize in neuro or cardio. The big difference is that a PA works under the supervision of an MD or a DO, which decreases the PA's liability. I think that PA school is 3 years of school as opposed to 4, and it's not as competitive as allopathic or osteopathic admissions.
The hours as a physicians assistant are much, much better, and although they make less money than doctors, they also have more freedom. My clinical experience with them has been that they tend to be a much happier group of people than your traditional physician, and still get to do most of the work of a physician.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You can be a PA and specialize in neuro or cardio. The big difference is that a PA works under the supervision of an MD or a DO, which decreases the PA's liability. I think that PA school is 3 years of school as opposed to 4, and it's not as competitive as allopathic or osteopathic admissions.
The hours as a physicians assistant are much, much better, and although they make less money than doctors, they also have more freedom. My clinical experience with them has been that they tend to be a much happier group of people than your traditional physician, and still get to do most of the work of a physician.

Most of the work, but none of the credit or pay.

 

[scpod]

...while md oversight is required it is typically in the form of chart review that happens after the pt has left the facility, sometimes up to a month later. in my state the supervision requirement is 10% of charts chosen by me within 1 month...

Yes, but don't try to mislead by implying that that is common because practically every state has a different scope of practice for PA's. In my state the following occurs:

"Supervising physician must be available by telecommunication. Supervising physician must be present at least 75% of the time PA is providing services; PA must have six months clinical experience with supervising physician before off-site supervision authorized; PA may not practice in any location more than 45 miles or 60 minutes from supervising physician without board approval; physician must review and initial charts of patients seen by PA when physician not present within 72 hours... "

BTW, pretty much all PA's who prescribe controlled medications must apply for their own DEA number, but that doesn't actually give them the authority to prescribe anything. The laws vary greatly in each state on this.

 

[deleted6669]

yes, laws vary greatly from state to state all the way from md on scene all the time and signing every chart to md never present, no chart review and supervision = a 30 min meetinng with an md every 6 months to discuss the practice which may be 100% pa owned(this is the no. caroloina scope/law).additionally, 2 pa's have served as president of the north carolina state medical board over the last decade.
primary care pa's typically max out salary around 80-85 k but it is possible for specialty pa's to make >125 k if they work em, ortho, or surgery and get performance bonuses. the avg pa last yr made 81k. the avg em pa made 90 k with the top 10% of em pa's making >120k
the typical md makes more than the typical pa(obviously) but some well paid/experienced specialty pa's may make more than some primary care md's.
in my area there are several fp residency programs so there is a glut of fp md's and many local practices pay these folks 90-110k/yr . primary care pa's in this area also make less than the national avg because of this with many making 55-65 k/yr.
there are very few em residency programs in my part of the country so em docs and pa's make more than avg.
all of the em pa's in my group make at least 110k/yr and the top earner made > 160k last yr.

 

[silas2642]

To the OP: I would say that the best thing you could do is shadow a PA and shadow a doctor.

 

[Assistant]

I think that PA school is 3 years of school as opposed to 4, and it's not as competitive as allopathic or osteopathic admissions.

Statistically, this is not true. There are fewer PA programs than there are MD and DO programs and most of the time they have a larger number of applicants to seats ratio than med schools. So, basically, it is easier to get into medical school than PA school. But PA schools also look for individuals who apply not because they couldn't get into medical school and prefer individuals with past professional medical experience such as nurses and the like.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Statistically, this is not true. There are fewer PA programs than there are MD and DO programs and most of the time they have a larger number of applicants to seats ratio than med schools. So, basically, it is easier to get into medical school than PA school. But PA schools also look for individuals who apply not because they couldn't get into medical school and prefer individuals with past professional medical experience such as nurses and the like.

Uhhh- that is not true. This is one of the ubiquitous examples of how one can lie/mislead with statistics.

The applicant pools of those applying to MD/DO schools and PA schools are incredibly different. PA schools is an entirely different playing field of admissions than medical schools. Even though there may be more applicants to PA schools than medical schools, keep in mind that there are far fewer qualified, competitive applicants.

In medical schools on the other hand, there is a much, much higher percentage of competitive applicants competing for only a few spots.

Also the prereqs for PA schools are less than MD/DO schools (no MCAT, etc.) which vastly changes the applicant pool.

Can't anyone else back me up on this overall?

 

[scpod]

Also the prereqs for PA schools are less than MD/DO schools (no MCAT, etc.) which vastly changes the applicant pool.

Can't anyone else back me up on this overall?

It's not just the prereqs that changes the applicant pool. There is some pretty good information on the latest AAPA new enrollee's survey.

The average age for 1st year PA students is 27.8
77% have a Bachelor's degree
75% worked in a health care field previously (11% of those over 9 years)
45% only applied to one school

 

[87138]

Also the prereqs for PA schools are less than MD/DO schools (no MCAT, etc.) which vastly changes the applicant pool.

Can't anyone else back me up on this overall?

Prereqs are different indeed. And while MCATs are not required for most (although some PA schools recommend/suggest you take them), and OChem is not always required, there are other classes in addition to minimum number of hours of healthcare experience required.

For the average PA school, Microbiology, Genetics, and/or Statistics are prereqs (it may be one, two, or all three of these depending on the school). Chem requirements vary (from "two semesters of general chem", to "two semesters of chemistry, only one has to be general but one has to be ochem", and others specify "two semesters of general chem and two semesters of ochem" just like med schools). Physics may or may not be required depending on the schools.

 

[bansheeDO]

but it is possible for specialty pa's to make >125 k if they work em, ortho, or surgery and get performance bonuses. the avg pa last yr made 81k. the avg em pa made 90 k with the top 10% of em pa's making >120k
the typical md makes more than the typical pa(obviously) but some well paid/experienced specialty pa's may make more than some primary care md's.
in my area there are several fp residency programs so there is a glut of fp md's and many local practices pay these folks 90-110k/yr . primary care pa's in this area also make less than the national avg because of this with many making 55-65 k/yr.
there are very few em residency programs in my part of the country so em docs and pa's make more than avg.
all of the em pa's in my group make at least 110k/yr and the top earner made > 160k last yr.

There are always extreme cases of each. There are family practice physicians in rural parts of the United States that clear 1 million dollars per year since they serve multispecialist roles due to the lack of specialists in the area. For example, in areas of rural North Carolina, family practice physicians do stress tests, colonoscopies, deliveries, and other procedures that they wouldn't normally perform in a metropolitan area. Likewise, you won't see PA's in metropolitan areas earning close to 160K. Many of them are fortunate to earn 100K and many start at 70-80K and these include the specialty PA's. Regardless, many physicians are profitting from PA's as they hire them to see a large volume of patients. They are basically employing the services of a physician without actually paying them a physician's salary or offerring them partnership in the practice. A lot of primary care doctors have used PA's to supplement their income and add anywhere from an addition 60K to 100K to their salary by hiring a PA. Physicians aren't complaing about existence of PA's.

 

[rehanyazdani]

Uhhh- that is not true. This is one of the ubiquitous examples of how one can lie/mislead with statistics.

The applicant pools of those applying to MD/DO schools and PA schools are incredibly different. PA schools is an entirely different playing field of admissions than medical schools. Even though there may be more applicants to PA schools than medical schools, keep in mind that there are far fewer qualified, competitive applicants.

In medical schools on the other hand, there is a much, much higher percentage of competitive applicants competing for only a few spots.

Also the prereqs for PA schools are less than MD/DO schools (no MCAT, etc.) which vastly changes the applicant pool.

Can't anyone else back me up on this overall?

I'm not sure about the no MCAT part, because I currently work with an athletic trainer who will apply to PA school and he told me that the MCAT is required, but scores to gain admission are no where near med school scores.

To answer the OP's question, PA's work in physician supervised teams. They can specialize. I work with an orthopaedic surgeon, and all of our PA's are Certified Orthopaedic PA's (OPAC). Depending on the state, physician's have to sign charts for PA's after looking them over. Here at my clinic in TN, after seeing a patient, the PA's have a physician check the chart and sign it. Hope that helps.

 

[bansheeDO]

I'm not sure about the no MCAT part, because I currently work with an athletic trainer who will apply to PA school and he told me that the MCAT is required, but scores to gain admission are no where near med school scores.

I don't know any PA school that requires the MCAT. Where is your trainer applying?

 

[DrMike24]

It's not just the prereqs that changes the applicant pool. There is some pretty good information on the latest AAPA new enrollee's survey.

The average age for 1st year PA students is 27.8
77% have a Bachelor's degree
75% worked in a health care field previously (11% of those over 9 years)
45% only applied to one school

I know that for UF pa school you have to have at least 2000 hours or something like that in the healthcare field as a prereq

 

[NRAI2001]

I dont know if i am correct, but i heard that you could do 4 years of med school and work as a PA also? I also heard that some foreign docs work as PAs while they are studying for their licensing exams, is this true?

 

[PhDtoDO]

This isn't in the latest train of conversation but....

FWI and MD is not considered a true doctoral degree...only PhD and a few other select less common degrees are true doctoral degrees.

An MD (and before you get on my case...I'm applying to med school) is really an inflated masters...its the residency that tips it into the arena of a doctocal. A PhD (and the other true doctoral degrees) require a thesis.

The idea that an doctor has a doctoral degree is a fairly recent idea....or in my mind....opinion.

And NPs must have a nursing degree to start (if there's a school out there that doesn't require a full Nursing degree and a few years experience...I never heard of it) and can do everything (mayhap differing state requirements) an MD or DO can do accept surgery. I had an NP as my pediatrician growing up and have many friends who are getting there degrees now or planning on going back to get it later.


Now this Physician's Assistant thing is in the process of defining itself. It could go in any given direction in terms of how society views and values this field...but in the end it is greatly needed.

Because this field is in its toddler years, its getting a lot of different types of people attracted to it and isn't seen or known in many hospital and clinical settings.

I think over time it will move up there with NPs but with a different yet slightly overlapping sphere of healthcare responsibility. For now, its still defining itself.


Again,

Just my opinion,

-s

 

[Dr Trek 1]

FWI and MD is not considered a true doctoral degree...only PhD and a few other select less common degrees are true doctoral degrees.

An MD (and before you get on my case...I'm applying to med school) is really an inflated masters...its the residency that tips it into the arena of a doctocal. A PhD (and the other true doctoral degrees) require a thesis.

This is an interesting statement. I would not entirely agree with your semantics, however.
A MD/DO, DDS, DPM, PharmD, DC and all other health care "doctoral degrees" are more precisely known as professional degrees. These are degrees where students are tought how to function as a specific health care professional. They are mostly taught specific knowledge and reasoning skills. A thesis is not required for these degrees, you just have to pass a bunch of exams and do clinical work.

PhD, PsyD, EdD and related degrees are known as academic graduate degrees. These are degrees where the focus is on theories of specific areas of academia. They include much research and applicable clinical training when necessary (such as clinical work for a PhD/PsyD in clinical psychology). These degrees are earned by endless discussion, papers, theory analysis, etc. Although you do have to pass some exams (your comprehensive exams, state licensing exams for psychologists, etc.) they are not exam/fact based like professional degrees.

However they are all called "doctor" and are all- technically- "doctoral" degrees. I certianly would not say that a MD/DO is an inflated master's degree. Maybe for some intense natural science MS programs, but the majority of MS programs are nothing like medical school.

However- it is really all an opinion, as you pointed out.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

So, basically, it is easier to get into medical school than PA school.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

I know- I have been laughing at that "easier to get into PA than Med school" comment since it was first written.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

I know this is probably one of the dumbest questions ever asked, but what is the difference? I mean obviously they have to complete different programs, but how do their jobs differ? If you plan to specialize in cardio or neuro, then their is a clear difference bt PA and MD, but what if you just want to go into Family Practice?

M.D.'s have greater understanding of the pathophys etc....the why's to what u do. So when the $hit hits the fan, they need to know what's up. stronger basic science and stronger clinicals because of extended residency training.

P.A.'s have a crash course basic science and clinical course. Not as strong a background in the basic sciences or clinicals, but training good enough to do the simpler stuff. They assist the doctor...essential for health care efficiency.

i'd be interested in finding out how much f.p's make who hire 5-10 P.A.'s to work under them...i'm assuming >500k?

PA's have better lifestyle b/c no call and limited liability and good for family....which is why many chose this option...not to say they wouldnt have gotten into medical school if they applied, but they chose to do this instead for their living.

if u want a field more lucrative than P.A., try CRNA.

there are certain Ph.D.'s that are probably more difficult than M.D. program....i am thinking Physics or Math at MIT. M.D. is a different kind of doctoral program, challenging in its own right.

 

[deleted6669]

I dont know if i am correct, but i heard that you could do 4 years of med school and work as a PA also? I also heard that some foreign docs work as PAs while they are studying for their licensing exams, is this true?

To work as a pa one must graduate from an approved pa program and pass the national pa exam. there used to be a few shortcuts for fmg's in florida but those loopholes have been closed. medical students or md's can not practice as pa's just as they could not practice as p.t.'s or rn's.

 

[Napoleon4000]

I think some people here were educated in the "Dumb-*ss University." People like this should be prevented from ever stepping outside of their homes as they would LIKELY be hazardous to everyone's health. I mean, really, how stupid are you!?!?

In Canada and the United States, the M.D. is a doctorate-level professional degree, equivalent to the Juris Doctor law degree for attorneys and the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.) for pharmacists. It is distinct from a research doctorate (Doctor of Philosophy, or Ph.D.), which requires a graduate thesis (doctoral dissertation)– the M.D. and Ph.D. in medicine are entirely separate.

All accredited medical schools recommend a previous undergraduate degree, usually a bachelor's degree, often in a scientific field (Bachelor of Science). The M.D. is typically earned in four years. In the United States most physicians have earned an M.D., although some may instead hold a Doctor of Osteopathy (D.O.)

It is the entry-level medical degree equivalent in most professional respects to the Bachelors of Medicine and Surgery awarded in Commonwealth countries (excluding Canada).


Difference between PA and MD: this one was tough.
Physician assistants (PAs) practice medicine under the supervision of physicians and surgeons. They should not be confused with medical assistants, who perform routine clinical and clerical tasks. (medical assistants are discussed elsewhere in the Handbook.) PAs are formally trained to provide diagnostic, therapeutic, and preventive health care services, as delegated by a physician. Working as members of the health care team, they take medical histories, examine and treat patients, order and interpret laboratory tests and x rays, and make diagnoses. They also treat minor injuries, by suturing, splinting, and casting. PAs record progress notes, instruct and counsel patients, and order or carry out therapy. In 48 States and the District of Columbia, physician assistants may prescribe medications. PAs also may have managerial duties. Some order medical supplies or equipment and supervise technicians and assistants.

Physician assistants work under the supervision of a physician (MD/DO). However, PAs may be the principal care providers in rural or inner city clinics, where a physician is present for only 1 or 2 days each week. In such cases, the PA confers with the supervising physician and other medical professionals as needed and as required by law. PAs also may make house calls or go to hospitals and nursing care facilities to check on patients, after which they report back to the physician.

The duties of physician assistants are determined by the supervising physician and by State law. Aspiring PAs should investigate the laws and regulations in the States in which they wish to practice.

Many PAs work in primary care specialties, such as general internal medicine, pediatrics, and family medicine. Other specialty areas include general and thoracic surgery, emergency medicine, orthopedics, and geriatrics. PAs specializing in surgery provide preoperative and postoperative care and may work as first or second assistants during major surgery.


Christ-All-Mighty where does where does this site find people like this. If you are this ignorant, then the above is also true. And if you have time to use SDN to write this question, but not enough time to go to the library, or wait, THE INTERNET, to find possible answers.....JESUS

 

[OSUdoc08]

I think some people here were educated in the "Dumb-*ss University." People like this should be prevented from ever stepping outside of their homes as they would LIKELY be hazardous to everyone's health. I mean, really, how stupid are you!?!?

In Canada and the United States, the M.D. is a doctorate-level professional degree, equivalent to the Juris Doctor law degree for attorneys and the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.) for pharmacists. It is distinct from a research doctorate (Doctor of Philosophy, or Ph.D.), which requires a graduate thesis (doctoral dissertation)– the M.D. and Ph.D. in medicine are entirely separate.

All accredited medical schools recommend a previous undergraduate degree, usually a bachelor's degree, often in a scientific field (Bachelor of Science). The M.D. is typically earned in four years. In the United States most physicians have earned an M.D., although some may instead hold a Doctor of Osteopathy (D.O.)

It is the entry-level medical degree equivalent in most professional respects to the Bachelors of Medicine and Surgery awarded in Commonwealth countries (excluding Canada).


Difference between PA and MD: this one was tough.
Physician assistants (PAs) practice medicine under the supervision of physicians and surgeons. They should not be confused with medical assistants, who perform routine clinical and clerical tasks. (medical assistants are discussed elsewhere in the Handbook.) PAs are formally trained to provide diagnostic, therapeutic, and preventive health care services, as delegated by a physician. Working as members of the health care team, they take medical histories, examine and treat patients, order and interpret laboratory tests and x rays, and make diagnoses. They also treat minor injuries, by suturing, splinting, and casting. PAs record progress notes, instruct and counsel patients, and order or carry out therapy. In 48 States and the District of Columbia, physician assistants may prescribe medications. PAs also may have managerial duties. Some order medical supplies or equipment and supervise technicians and assistants.

Physician assistants work under the supervision of a physician (MD/DO). However, PAs may be the principal care providers in rural or inner city clinics, where a physician is present for only 1 or 2 days each week. In such cases, the PA confers with the supervising physician and other medical professionals as needed and as required by law. PAs also may make house calls or go to hospitals and nursing care facilities to check on patients, after which they report back to the physician.

The duties of physician assistants are determined by the supervising physician and by State law. Aspiring PAs should investigate the laws and regulations in the States in which they wish to practice.

Many PAs work in primary care specialties, such as general internal medicine, pediatrics, and family medicine. Other specialty areas include general and thoracic surgery, emergency medicine, orthopedics, and geriatrics. PAs specializing in surgery provide preoperative and postoperative care and may work as first or second assistants during major surgery.


Christ-All-Mighty where does where does this site find people like this. If you are this ignorant, then the above is also true. And if you have time to use SDN to write this question, but not enough time to go to the library, or wait, THE INTERNET, to find possible answers.....JESUS

It's Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

 

[Dr. Wexler]

in my state the supervision requirement is 10% of charts chosen by me within 1 month.

Just curious, why are the charts to be reviewd chosen by the PA? Is this an implicit vote of confidence in the PA's ability and integrity?

From a scientific point of view, it would seem that a more random chart review would give the physician a better snapshot of the overall patient population. In most non-medical suprervisory relationships isn't it the supervisor who determines what work will be evaluated?

 

[Gavanshir]

It's Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

So it's DOM?

 

[jonwill]

It's Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

That's one hell of a chip on your shoulder.

 

[OSUdoc08]

So it's DOM?

Nope, it's D.O.

 

[OSUdoc08]

That's one hell of a chip on your shoulder.

 

[oldManDO2009]

I find it ridiculous that someone would state that a medical degree is equivalent to a master’s degree??? The arguments are that PhDs must complete a thesis and that makes it a true doctorate; Then there is the argument of research and all that lab time is what makes the difference; and finally, a true doctorate advance science

A thesis is an original piece of scientific work that demonstrates your expertise in the field of your profession – I will take many exams and boards over the span of my medical career to demonstrate my expertise. Ever thesis that is printed is not earth shattering science but demonstrates you expertise.

The several years of lab work is compared to my minimum of 5 years of “lab work” to demonstrate my expertise (MS III & IV, PGY I, II, III)

Anybody open up JAMA lately – it is full of research by doctors of all stripes including doctors of medicine.

You could not compare them by credit hours completed because a PhD would be equivalent to a (insert some lesser degree to avoid flame war)

One argument was tossed out on this forum at one time that a doctor of medicine is an overrated bachelor’s degree, what does that make a PA, NP, CRNA, MS in anything an associate of science??? This is a pointless argument – a doctorate should define expertise and physicians are experts in medicine and thus a doctor

 

[nnjh]

Statistically, this is not true. There are fewer PA programs than there are MD and DO programs and most of the time they have a larger number of applicants to seats ratio than med schools. So, basically, it is easier to get into medical school than PA school. But PA schools also look for individuals who apply not because they couldn't get into medical school and prefer individuals with past professional medical experience such as nurses and the like.

So it seems that the road to being an assistant to a M.D. is harder than the

one leading to the M.D. Interesting........

 

[Dr Trek 1]

So it seems that the road to being an assistant to a M.D. is harder than the

one leading to the M.D. Interesting........

 

[QuikClot]

That's not surprising at all. It can be harder to get into nursing school than it is to get into medical school. Most paramedics at my company make more than the overtime-exempt people who supervise them.

Responses like yours give me the sense of people who feel their profession will identify them to the world as the smartest, most accomplished, most elite bunch of folks out there.

Those people become the sort of doctors everybody hates.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Responses like yours give me the sense of people who feel their profession will identify them to the world as the smartest, most accomplished, most elite bunch of folks out there.

Even though I have a graduate degree in psychotherapy, it doesn't take that to see the projection going on in this statement.

It's easy to lie with statistics. When it comes down to it, medical school (MD/DO) admissions is much, much more difficult to gain admission to than any other health care related graduate school. I think this goes without saying, personally.

Keep in mind that gaining acceptance to medical school does not necessarily mean you are "smart", whatever that word actually means. What it does mean is that 1) you have worked hard 2) you are an excellent test taker. Other things, of course, but no one can argue those two.

 

[QuikClot]

Even though I have a graduate degree in psychotherapy, it doesn't take that to see the projection going on in this statement.

"Projection" is psychobabbler for "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say . . . etc."

I find it amusing that you defend your self-importance reguarding the MD . . . with self-importance reguarding your graduate degree.

Look out, world. Another "MDeity" in the pipeline.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

"Projection" is psychobabbler for "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say . . . etc."

Maybe you and Tom Cruise should team up, since both of you are such experts on the "true meaning" of clinical psychological terms.

 

[QuikClot]

What is scary here is how your arrogance blends naturally with your incompetence. No responsible clinician labels people who embarass him on a forum with diagnostic mumbo-jumbo. That's the behavior of a desperately insecure quack.

Please PM me your name, so I can keep myself and my loved ones away from a short-tempered and intellectually lazy practitioner.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

No responsible clinician labels people who embarass him on a forum with diagnostic mumbo-jumbo. That's the behavior of a desperately insecure quack.

How interesting that you are the one who said this...

 

[Dr.Wolkower]

I know this is probably one of the dumbest questions ever asked, but what is the difference? I mean obviously they have to complete different programs, but how do their jobs differ? If you plan to specialize in cardio or neuro, then their is a clear difference bt PA and MD, but what if you just want to go into Family Practice?

they do everything a MD does without the aggravation of residency attendings and getting old amd being abused in a residency program

 

[Dr Trek 1]

they do everything a MD does without the aggravation of residency attendings and getting old amd being abused in a residency program

Look I am not trying to put down PAs, but this statement is blatantly false. In order to be a physician (MD/DO) one must go to four years of college and four years of medical school and at least three years of residency. There are many PA programs that are a 4 year undergraduate program. In other words, you graduate high school, go to college for 4 years, and are a PA.

PAs definately cannot do EVERYTHING a MD/DO can. For instance, PAs cannot do full surgical procedures by themselves (such as an appendectomy or neuro surgery). Also, in most states they cannot write scripts for narcotics and schedule I/II medications. The list goes on an on of what they cannot do.

Yes PAs can do a lot and are very critical parts of our healthcare system, but they are not physicians and the two are very different things.

 

[Museless]

Originally Posted by silas2642
I think that PA school is 3 years of school as opposed to 4, and it's not as competitive as allopathic or osteopathic admissions.

PA school is 2 years long. "PA Residency" is rare but there are a handful of 1-year residency programs which could extend the total educational time to 3 years.

Minimum MD + residency time is 7-10 years depending on specialty choice. For example: 7 total years to primary care, 8 years to some direct-entry specialties (neurology, anesthesiology) 9 years in general surgery, 10 years in internal med specialties like oncology and cardiology... and the sky's the limit for surgical specialties.

But you shouldn't let duration of training unduly influence your decision. Life goes on while you're in training, and yes, you will have one. It will sometimes be more pleasant than at other times, but "residents" no longer actually live at the hospital. The MD degree offers a lot of opportunity, the PA degree offers a lot of flexibility. The advice above to shadow both a PA and an MD (ideally in a few different specialties) before making your decision is sound. Good luck!

 

[medhacker]

I dont know if i am correct, but i heard that you could do 4 years of med school and work as a PA also? I also heard that some foreign docs work as PAs while they are studying for their licensing exams, is this true?

I am not sure if this option continues, it happened in Florida and yes FMGs could practice as PAs if they had passed Step II of the USMLE. I know some who do Immuno with AIDS patients and cash in 130K+ a year

 

[QuikClot]

How interesting that you are the one who said this...

How interesting? As interesting as the fact that you are lying about having a Master's in psychotherapy?

Your puffery:

Even though I have a graduate degree in psychotherapy,

But your public profile:

Undergrad School & Degree:
University of Rochester, BA
Graduate School & Degree:
University of Rochester, MS (Expected 2007)
Occupation:
full time graduate student

Tell me, did your degree magically show up in the mail a year and a half early, or are you simply unaware of the distinction between a reality and a future hope?

Tell us, o wise graduate student, what does dragging your education into a conversation solely so you can lie about it indicate about a person's character?

 

[newbieonboard]

PA school is 2 years long. "PA Residency" is rare but there are a handful of 1-year residency programs which could extend the total

PA schools are either 2 or 3 yrs long. Some of them offering a masters/PA degree.... though im a bit confused as to why that is since PA is already considered a "masters" degree... could someone clarify?

 

[Dr Trek 1]

How interesting? As interesting as the fact that you are lying about having a Master's in psychotherapy?

Uhh, for your information I said it was "expected" in 2007. That was a generous estimate. I finished my thesis/classes very early.

I find it downright hilarious how you actually researched that so you could have more ammo to make yourself try to feel better What does that say about someone's character?

 

[EvoDevo]

Y'all play nicely now, ya hear? If there can't be civil discussion then:

1) I'll close this thread
2) Certain individual's will find their posting privileges suspended.

Thanks,

The Management

 

[DocNusum]

PAs definately cannot do EVERYTHING a MD/DO can. For instance, PAs cannot do full surgical procedures by themselves (such as an appendectomy or neuro surgery).

Just as FP/IM... MD/DOs can't either!!!

But you are correct that PAs can't do EVERYTHING a MD/DO can... i.e. work "unsupervised."

PAs and MDs have the EXACT SAME scope of practice in FP/IM/Geri....

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Just as FP/IM... MD/DOs can't either!!!

But you are correct that PAs can't do EVERYTHING a MD/DO can... i.e. work "unsupervised."

PAs and MDs have the EXACT SAME scope of practice in FP/IM/Geri....

I agree that PAs can do most anything as long as they are under the direct supervision of a MD/DO. That is actually a large part of being a PA- being supervised more often than a MD/DO. Sure a physician cannot do surgery completely by him or herself, but he or she can be the person in charge and make all the decisions.

However, it is incorrect to say that a PA can do anything a MD/DO can do, but just have to do it supervised. I can't give a universal example since it is different in every state, but there are many. If you give me a specific state, I can tell you what PAs cannot do, even when supervised, in that state.

I have nothing against PAs, they are very valuable in our health care system. But a PA and a MD/DO are two very different degrees with very different philosophies. There is a reason that their training is so different.

 

[DocNusum]

I agree that PAs can do most anything as long as they are under the direct supervision of a MD/DO. That is actually a large part of being a PA- being supervised more often than a MD/DO. Sure a physician cannot do surgery completely by him or herself, but he or she can be the person in charge and make all the decisions.

However, it is incorrect to say that a PA can do anything a MD/DO can do, but just have to do it supervised. I can't give a universal example since it is different in every state, but there are many. If you give me a specific state, I can tell you what PAs cannot do, even when supervised, in that state.

I have nothing against PAs, they are very valuable in our health care system. But a PA and a MD/DO are two very different degrees with very different philosophies. There is a reason that their training is so different.

I agree...

But... I'm curious as to what can a FP MD do in daily practice that they can't "supervise" a PA to do in your state...???

DocNusum