Lets be serious, does any patient actually trust an NP/PA?

[LebronManning]

The residents I talk to often say that 80 percent of what you learn in residency you learn in the intern year, with the last 20 percent tweaking what you already know during the final two years. I realize residency is a difficult right of passage that prepares physicians to be physicians, but I disagree that a well rounded 'mid level' with years of experience in different areas of medicine wont end up with the same knowledge as a 'PGY4'. This concept that medical school and residency are magical and physicians are super human needs to stop, and it needs to stop with the medical students. A little tough love, if you're willing to hear it, is this attitude is what gives the profession a bad name. The experienced attendings are wonderful team players who respect all roles without condescension. I wish the medical students would copy their behavior. Some patients prefer NP's because of this mentality.

I agree with most of what you’re saying. Surely, there are some midlevels out there with superb knowledge and experience and surely there are some physicians who barely squeaked through. In general though, the physician will be more knowledgeable and this is why they are the leader of the team. I don’t think that part needs to be a point of contention. Does this mean the midlevel should always bow down to the physician regarding clinical management discussion? Hell no. Midlevels are totally capable of being a part of conversation due to the knowledge. They frequently contribute and without a doubt will sometimes catch things physicians miss. However, the final decision must remain with the person who will be on the stand being sued for $40M if something goes wrong.

We also have to realize that medicine is hierarchical. It has to be. This is life and death and when it comes to that there has to be someone in charge and there needs to be someone accountable for everything that happens. This is the unique role of the physician and one bestowed upon them in exchange for the increased blood, sweat, and tears put into their education. From the physician standpoint, when that role is attacked by the other side is when it seems disrespectful. Compare this to the military where decisions also have life or death consequences and someone has to burden the accountability.

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[762513]

I agree with most of what you’re saying. Surely, there are some midlevels out there with superb knowledge and experience and surely there are some physicians who barely squeaked through. In general though, the physician will be more knowledgeable and this is why they are the leader of the team. I don’t think that part needs to be a point of contention. Does this mean the midlevel should always bow down to the physician regarding clinical management discussion? Hell no. Midlevels are totally capable of being a part of conversation due to the knowledge. They frequently contribute and without a doubt will sometimes catch things physicians miss. However, the final decision must remain with the person who will be on the stand being sued for $40M if something goes wrong.

We also have to realize that medicine is hierarchical. It has to be. This is life and death and when it comes to that there has to be someone in charge and there needs to be someone accountable for everything that happens. This is the unique role of the physician and one bestowed upon them in exchange for the increased blood, sweat, and tears put into their education. From the physician standpoint, when that role is attacked by the other side is when it seems disrespectful. Compare this to the military where decisions also have life or death consequences and someone has to burden the accountability.

I agree with your post. How nice that two chaps on probationary status can have such a productive conversation. Have a good night my dude.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

At least we know you go to a Carib school. It also explains why you feel the pathological need to prove everywhere how much better you perceive yourself to be than NP’s, because other med students look down on you for not getting into a US med school.

lol no I go to a DO school. I mean one check of my posting history should be enough to determine that rather than your assumption. I'm guessing you don't review patient charts and take their word for everything? Or worse yet, make assumptions about their hx based on... nothing?

Clearly you don’t speak for the OP. A lot of you (not you in particular, just as a group) are not just anti mid-level, you are offensively so. There’s no hogwarts level incantation or spell cast upon a medical student graduate. The knowledge a newly minted physician has can be learned by any ‘mid level’ given enough years of practice and additional study. I’m tired of hearing arrogance and condescension from people who claim to be students of medicine.

False. The midlevels have been hating on medicine long enough.

Sure, midlevels could read all day about the basic sciences med students learn and know it as well as they do. Unfortunately, that’s the least important part of the picture. A physician becomes a real physician through his or her residency training. A midlevel can never receive residency training and thus can never have that level of clinical knowledge. Conversely, if you try to say that much residency isn’t needed or that midlevels can get the same experience on the job, that is frankly disrespectful to all physicians in the world. You would be saying that we all have/will undergo extensive medical training followed by a brutal residency for no reason since we could’ve just became midlevels and eventually had the same knowledge base. You’re not saying that (yet), but just hypothetically because that would be the only response.

I agree that some people from my side may be offensive to the midlevel side but it depends on what you’re getting upset at. It is fact that physicians in general are more knowledgeable, better trained, and ultimately responsible for the patient. Therefore, they are better paid and generally more respected. That’s just the way it goes. If this grinds your gears as midlevel, then all I can say is the truth hurts.

There's no getting through to these people. They think memorizing a few algorithms means they're good to go. It's so much worse than the October intern. Not to mention veryyy few midlevels actually go read up on their free time to improve their knowledge base and keep up with studies daily. Most attendings I know do this.

The residents I talk to often say that 80 percent of what you learn in residency you learn in the intern year, with the last 20 percent tweaking what you already know during the final two years. I realize residency is a difficult right of passage that prepares physicians to be physicians, but I disagree that a well rounded 'mid level' with years of experience in different areas of medicine wont end up with the same knowledge as a 'PGY4'. This concept that medical school and residency are magical and physicians are super human needs to stop, and it needs to stop with the medical students. A little tough love, if you're willing to hear it, is this attitude is what gives the profession a bad name. The experienced attendings are wonderful team players who respect all roles without condescension. I wish the medical students would copy their behavior. Some patients prefer NP's because of this mentality.

When you say "learn" you need to realize that's a poor word. There is a strong foundation of knowledge for a fresh intern. It just hasn't been utilized that much so it isn't solidified yet. And of course, there's a strong element of "on the job training" for anything.

 

[762513]

lol no I go to a DO school. I mean one check of my posting history should be enough to determine that rather than your assumption. I'm guessing you don't review patient charts and take their word for everything? Or worse yet, make assumptions about their hx based on... nothing?


False. The midlevels have been hating on medicine long enough.

There's no getting through to these people. They think memorizing a few algorithms means they're good to go. It's so much worse than the October intern. Not to mention veryyy few midlevels actually go read up on their free time to improve their knowledge base and keep up with studies daily. Most attendings I know do this.


When you say "learn" you need to realize that's a poor word. There is a strong foundation of knowledge for a fresh intern. It just hasn't been utilized that much so it isn't solidified yet. And of course, there's a strong element of "on the job training" for anything.

It's impossible to convince you of anything, so I wont try. You go out of your way to be offensive to nurses at just about every opportunity. This thread that you created along with hundreds of other posts proves it. This is when you try to say you have a lot of respect for nurses, and when I start chuckling by reading the very name of the thread you created. You're going to have a difficult career. Good luck to you.

 

[Same Team_RN]

I think I speak for everyone when I say we’re not anti midlevel.

Midlevels have an important job in our healthcare system for sure. You should understand, though, that’s it’s very offputting to compare nurses or midlevels to physicians. Physicians have years more of education and experience. It seems like you have a lot of confidence that you somehow received an education comparable to physicians...but the saying goes “you don’t know what you don’t know.”

FWIW, those Carib docs you disparaged are just as qualified as US docs seeing as they had to have performed superbly on the USMLE (testing of medicine knowledge) to have placed in residency here. No midlevel would succeed on this test because you aren’t taught to understand the minutiae of physiological process. Understand the midlevel role is to assist the physician...and your training is geared to that.

Also your argument about being at a nice hospital kindve speaks to the immaturity I think you’re showing on this topic. By that logic, the janitor and Harvard Medical School has some sort of advantage over a “lowly” medicine resident at Bronx Lebanon hospital. I really don’t get this argument. So midlevels making 120k (tops) at Mayo Clinic are snickering at the hospitalist making 300K for 14 shifts at the local community hospital? Ok.

TL;DR: There’s levels to this ****

Truly, I'm happy to read that you're not anti-midlevel. But then you descend right back down into the fires of anti-midlevel hell with the same old same old. Comparing nursing to custodial work....not the same, sir, or ma'am. That's something I'd expect out of the white house communication dept., not a white coat. NPs are trained to understand the minutiae of pathophysiology. Just yesterday I witnessed an amazing doctor being taught by a more experienced NP. There was no snickering, only team work. And this was at a Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, JHU caliber facility. The only snickering that goes on is done by the small cohort of SDN med students and economically motivated physicians who seem to make up the majority of this site and live in the boonies of healthcare. BFD, some hospitalist makes 300k, I'm not necessarily snickering at anyone unless they're being a petty betty about NPs. If I wanted to, I could make a move and gross 200-300k. But, this isn't about the money.

Also that wasn't really an argument, it was bickering in a forum. You should know about that. This is SDN after all.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I'm seriously glad SDN admins do a terrific job at keeping the forums running smoothly by keeping the bad characters in check.

 

[atomheart]

The residents I talk to often say that 80 percent of what you learn in residency you learn in the intern year, with the last 20 percent tweaking what you already know during the final two years. I realize residency is a difficult right of passage that prepares physicians to be physicians, but I disagree that a well rounded 'mid level' with years of experience in different areas of medicine wont end up with the same knowledge as a 'PGY4'. This concept that medical school and residency are magical and physicians are super human needs to stop, and it needs to stop with the medical students. A little tough love, if you're willing to hear it, is this attitude is what gives the profession a bad name. The experienced attendings are wonderful team players who respect all roles without condescension. I wish the medical students would copy their behavior. Some patients prefer NP's because of this mentality.

Disdain for the process of becoming a physician is the claim to mid-level militancy, and a frequent topic of conversation for those students. Then someone points out their education isn't standardized which makes their degree disposable. They are perpetually stuck in PGY1 on paper, even with the knowledge of an attending physician.

If I thought being a physician was all about knowledge and skills I would have become a midlevel. Frequently midlevels on the internet mistake themselves as physicians because they have knowledge and skills.

 

[762513]

Disdain for the process of becoming a physician is the claim to mid-level militancy, and a frequent topic of conversation for those students. Then someone points out their education isn't standardized which makes their degree disposable. They are perpetually stuck in PGY1 on paper, even with the knowledge of an attending physician.

If I thought being a physician was all about knowledge and skills I would have become a midlevel. Frequently midlevels on the internet mistake themselves as physicians because they have knowledge and skills.

I have great respect for physicians for having put in the sweat and blood to get where they are. Their achievements, however, doesn’t mean that just because NP education is in desperate need of standardization that my degree is automatically “disposable.” I went to an R1 school, I created unique quantitative research I am working on getting published, and during my education more than a third of the lectures were given by physicians. Painting with a brush that broad is unwise, and people who aren’t trolling, unlike the OP who is a troll, need to keep that in mind.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I have great respect for physicians for having put in the sweat and blood to get where they are. Their achievements, however, doesn’t mean that just because NP education is in desperate need of standardization that my degree is automatically “disposable.” I went to an R1 school, I created unique quantitative research I am working on getting published, and during my education more than a third of the lectures were given by physicians. Painting with a brush that broad is unwise, and people who aren’t trolling, unlike the OP who is a troll, need to keep that in mind.

It's a problem when you try to claim equivalency to physicians. As long as you aren't doing that, no one has any issues.

 

[762513]

It's a problem when you try to claim equivalency to physicians. As long as you aren't doing that, no one has any issues.

I’ve never done that. Not once. To answer your question the answer is yes. Millions of patients and many thousands of physicians do trust mid levels. Keep trolling, good sir.

 

[atomheart]

I have great respect for physicians for having put in the sweat and blood to get where they are. Their achievements, however, doesn’t mean that just because NP education is in desperate need of standardization that my degree is automatically “disposable.” I went to an R1 school, I created unique quantitative research I am working on getting published, and during my education more than a third of the lectures were given by physicians. Painting with a brush that broad is unwise, and people who aren’t trolling, unlike the OP who is a troll, need to keep that in mind.

I have seen a hospital buyout where an entire department's mid-levels were fired first because they were in the red.

That's not a medical student boasting, I really feel for those employees and their families. I'm sure they will be able to find work with their credentials, but if we're honest, a mid-level starting over is not the same thing as a physician starting over.

The research about midlevels belies the truth about the flood of untrained workers coming to market, the relative value they add to the medical system, and the safety and stability of those careers. Of course no job is really safe, but no wonder there is such a push in legislature to enable larger scope of practice and licensing ability. Riding on the coattails of physician shortage, access, cost, evidence, and anything they can latch on to and find congressional support. That's where you see resistance from the physician community.

 

[762513]

I have seen a hospital buyout where an entire department's mid-levels were fired first because they were in the red.

That's not a medical student boasting, I really feel for those employees and their families. I'm sure they will be able to find work with their credentials, but if we're honest, a mid-level starting over is not the same thing as a physician starting over.

The research about midlevels belies the truth about the flood of untrained workers coming to market, the relative value they add to the medical system, and the safety and stability of those careers. Of course no job is really safe, but no wonder there is such a push in legislature to enable larger scope of practice and licensing ability. Riding on the coattails of physician shortage, access, cost, evidence, and anything they can latch on to and find congressional support. That's where you see resistance from the physician community.

Physician resistance is multifactorial, and I won’t bring up my opinions on that matter. I’ve never seen a NP/ PA let go for budget reasons, although I can’t argue with your first hand experience. I got my DNP because I eventually want to teach full time an still care for patients part time. I felt my degree opened the most doors for me, and I didn’t get it because I wanted to be called doctor.

 

[atomheart]

Physician resistance is multifactorial, and I won’t bring up my opinions on that matter. I’ve never seen a NP/ PA let go for budget reasons, although I can’t argue with your first hand experience. I got my DNP because I eventually want to teach full time an still care for patients part time. I felt my degree opened the most doors for me, and I didn’t get it because I wanted to be called doctor.

Sure but your students do not feel that way. Many of the students I've spoken to want a shortcut to a well paying career in healthcare, which again brings up that disdain for the physician pathway. Anyway, they'll be incorporated into a team somewhere, trained for free by physicians, and probably be appreciated by physician and patient alike. But is that thinking at all sustainable?

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Physician resistance is multifactorial, and I won’t bring up my opinions on that matter. I’ve never seen a NP/ PA let go for budget reasons, although I can’t argue with your first hand experience. I got my DNP because I eventually want to teach full time an still care for patients part time. I felt my degree opened the most doors for me, and I didn’t get it because I wanted to be called doctor.

As a midlevel, you simply need to denounce independent practice rights for any midlevel + denounce what your union wants (more rights). As soon as you do that, you gain respect from everyone in medicine across the board.

 

[762513]

As a midlevel, you simply need to denounce independent practice rights for any midlevel + denounce what your union wants (more rights). As soon as you do that, you gain respect from everyone in medicine across the board.

Why would I want to remove healthcare access from millions of rural and underserved patients just to make a medical student feel better about his ego?

 

[BeautifulSmiles523]

I do. I've chosen to see a PA/NP over a physician many times since it gets me in weeks earlier.

 

[RTC19]

I can only speak for myself and my family. But, when my mom had breast cancer, we picked our Oncology practice at least partially because they didn't utilize NPs/PAs. Same with when she picked a primary care practice to do her post- breast cancer preventive care and other preventive care people need as they age.

We've all just had too many bad experiences.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Why would I want to remove healthcare access from millions of rural and underserved patients just to make a medical student feel better about his ego?

Let’s not promulgate this fallacy that MLPs provide care to “millions of rural and underserved patients”. They are no more likely to do that than physicians and there is plenty of data to support this.

 

[762513]

Let’s not promulgate this fallacy that MLPs provide care to “millions of rural and underserved patients”. They are no more likely to do that than physicians and there is plenty of data to support this.

"Researchers found that NPs comprise one-in-four of clinicians practicing in rural areas, a number that increased 43% from 2008-2016."

Nurse Practitioners' Primary Care Role for Rural Areas Hobbled by Practice Restrictions

NPs account for 1 in 4 medical healthcare providers in rural areas, but their potential to provide a full spectrum of primary care services can't be realized if states maintain practice restrictions.

www.healthleadersmedia.com

“We found a growing presence of NPs among rural practices,” University of Delaware’s Hilary Barnes and her coauthors wrote. “ From 2008 to 2016, NPs increased from 17.6% of providers in rural areas to 25.2% —a significant increase of 43.2% from 2008.”

Nurse Practitioners Boost Presence By 43% In Rural America

Nurse practitioners account for 1 in 4 medical care providers in U.S. rural practices – a "significant" 43.2% increase from 2008 to 2016, a new report in the journal Health Affairs shows.

www.forbes.com

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

"Researchers found that NPs comprise one-in-four of clinicians practicing in rural areas, a number that increased 43% from 2008-2016."

Nurse Practitioners' Primary Care Role for Rural Areas Hobbled by Practice Restrictions

NPs account for 1 in 4 medical healthcare providers in rural areas, but their potential to provide a full spectrum of primary care services can't be realized if states maintain practice restrictions.

www.healthleadersmedia.com

“We found a growing presence of NPs among rural practices,” University of Delaware’s Hilary Barnes and her coauthors wrote. “ From 2008 to 2016, NPs increased from 17.6% of providers in rural areas to 25.2% —a significant increase of 43.2% from 2008.”

Nurse Practitioners Boost Presence By 43% In Rural America

Nurse practitioners account for 1 in 4 medical care providers in U.S. rural practices – a "significant" 43.2% increase from 2008 to 2016, a new report in the journal Health Affairs shows.

www.forbes.com

Which means 3/4ths of that care is still by physicians.

Interestingly, I think this may be one potential benefit of the huge number of NP schools that are opening up. The market is basically saturated outside of rural areas at this point which I suspect is reflected in the articles you posted.

 

[762513]

Which means 3/4ths of that care is still by physicians.

Interestingly, I think this may be one potential benefit of the huge number of NP schools that are opening up. The market is basically saturated outside of rural areas at this point which I suspect is reflected in the articles you posted.

Possible, although a 43 percent increase to 1/4 of all rural providers, while I understand is not proportional to the overall increase in the numbers, is still a significant win for rural America, and not something we should look at limiting as this was the purpose of NP’s in the first place.

 

[Winged Scapula]

"Researchers found that NPs comprise one-in-four of clinicians practicing in rural areas, a number that increased 43% from 2008-2016."

Nurse Practitioners' Primary Care Role for Rural Areas Hobbled by Practice Restrictions

NPs account for 1 in 4 medical healthcare providers in rural areas, but their potential to provide a full spectrum of primary care services can't be realized if states maintain practice restrictions.

www.healthleadersmedia.com

“We found a growing presence of NPs among rural practices,” University of Delaware’s Hilary Barnes and her coauthors wrote. “ From 2008 to 2016, NPs increased from 17.6% of providers in rural areas to 25.2% —a significant increase of 43.2% from 2008.”

Nurse Practitioners Boost Presence By 43% In Rural America

Nurse practitioners account for 1 in 4 medical care providers in U.S. rural practices – a "significant" 43.2% increase from 2008 to 2016, a new report in the journal Health Affairs shows.

www.forbes.com

Those “studies” are irrelevant.

I never said that there weren’t NPs in rural areas. I said that NPs are no more likely than physicians to practice in rural areas. The AANP would like you to believe that NPs are solving the problem of healthcare distribution. Some are; the majority are not and are just as likely, if not more, to specialize and work in large cities. The largest numbers of NPs are in NYC/Newark, Boston, Philly, LA, Chicago, Atlanta etc. (BLS 2019). I live in an independent practice state and believe me, the NPs are solving the crisis of the wrinkled and fat of Scottsdale single-handedly by opening med spas because apparently we don't have enough plastic surgeons.

 

[762513]

Those “studies” are irrelevant.

I never said that there weren’t NPs in rural areas. I said that NPs are no more likely than physicians to practice in rural areas. The AANP would like you to believe that NPs are solving the problem of healthcare distribution. Some are; the majority are not and are just as likely, if not more, to specialize and work in large cities. The largest numbers of NPs are in NYC/Newark, Boston, Philly, LA, Chicago, Atlanta etc. (BLS 2019). I live in an independent practice state and believe me, the NPs are solving the crisis of the wrinkled and fat of Scottsdale single-handedly by opening med spas because apparently we don't have enough plastic surgeons.

You're right that NP's prefer urban environments just like physicians. That doesn't change the fact that NP's make up a large (and growing 17.6 to 25.2) percentage of rural providers in areas in which they are desperately needed and the environment that the entire role was designed for and are providing great benefit to people who otherwise may not be able to receive care at all. The only responsible reaction to NP's in rural environments should be unconditional support. It's not a fallacy at all that NP's provide healthcare to millions of people in rural and underserved areas; it's fact.

 

[DO2015CA]

You're right that NP's prefer urban environments just like physicians. That doesn't change the fact that NP's make up a large (and growing 17.6 to 25.2) percentage of rural providers in areas in which they are desperately needed and the environment that the entire role was designed for and are providing great benefit to people who otherwise may not be able to receive care at all. The only responsible reaction to NP's in rural environments should be unconditional support. It's not a fallacy at all that NP's provide healthcare to millions of people in rural and underserved areas; it's fact.

They 100% deserve all the support. And that’s why many support solo practice in rural areas (but not populated places) not because they are completely competent but something is better than nothing.

 

[762513]

They 100% deserve all the support. And that’s why many support solo practice in rural areas (but not populated places) not because they are completely competent but something is better than nothing.

We agreed. I'll allow it.

 

[SLC]

They 100% deserve all the support. And that’s why many support solo practice in rural areas (but not populated places) not because they are completely competent but something is better than nothing.

Yep, and the system needs to get it’s act together and incentivize docs better to practice in more underserved areas.

I know I chose my location based in large part on the benefits I got in terms of residency stipend, signing bonus, loan repayment etc.

We have no NP’s in our rural county BTW, we had one that was helping back up our hospitalist program but that person lasted all of 6 months and headed to the city where there was more supervision/lighter expectations.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Why would I want to remove healthcare access from millions of rural and underserved patients just to make a medical student feel better about his ego?

Don't paint this narrative that midlevels are there just to see underserved patients. We both know it's false otherwise they would be swarming those areas in masses. But given the mental gymnastics you pulled in another thread to try and make it sound like I don't understand a critical care concept, I'm sure you'll find a way to do that with this topic too. After all, it's what your lobby does really well.

 

[762513]

Don't paint this narrative that midlevels are there just to see underserved patients. We both know it's false otherwise they would be swarming those areas in masses. But given the mental gymnastics you pulled in another thread to try and make it sound like I don't understand a critical care concept, I'm sure you'll find a way to do that with this topic too. After all, it's what your lobby does really well.

I didn’t use the word “just.” You made that up to debate dishonestly and misrepresent my position.

You didnt understand the critical care concept. My attending was just teaching me today how important it is to check all Qtc elongating meds, especially antibiotics; looks like you got that one wrong too. Your obsession with attacking midlevels is pathological. You may need to talk to someone about all this displaced aggression. I’m honestly not joking here.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

You didnt understand the critical care concept. My attending was just teaching me today how important it is to check all
Qtc elongating meds, especially antibiotics; looks like you got that one wrong too. Your obsession with attacking midlevels is pathological. You may to talk to someone about all this displaced anger. I’m honestly not joking here.

Loll see how you fabricate stuff? I pointed out that it's flawed to only look at antibiotics when concerned about QT prolongation given that the vast majority do not prolonged QT by more than ~10s. You actually did not understand my explanation because you have no idea how we actually calculate it, the different methods of calculation or that it isn't a linear value in the context of torsadogenicity and not to mention that it's not at all a critical care concept in isolation.
Had you been less arrogant you may have learned something.

And what displaced anger? A forum like SDN is the only place to actually discuss issues like this on a reasonable platform.

 

[762513]

Loll see how you fabricate stuff? I pointed out that it's flawed to only look at antibiotics when concerned about QT prolongation given that the vast majority do not prolonged QT by more than ~10s. You actually did not understand my explanation because you have no idea how we actually calculate it, the different methods of calculation or that it isn't a linear value in the context of torsadogenicity and not to mention that it's not at all a critical care concept in isolation.
Had you been less arrogant you may have learned something.

And what displaced anger? A forum like SDN is the only place to actually discuss issues like this on a reasonable platform.

I never said I “only” look at antibiotics. You are such a dishonest person to debate with. I’m going to do us both a favor and block you.

If you don’t see your problem that’s probably the biggest problem. Good luck in residency.

 

[762513]

Yep, and the system needs to get it’s act together and incentivize docs better to practice in more underserved areas.

I know I chose my location based in large part on the benefits I got in terms of residency stipend, signing bonus, loan repayment etc.

We have no NP’s in our rural county BTW, we had one that was helping back up our hospitalist program but that person lasted all of 6 months and headed to the city where there was more supervision/lighter expectations.

Rural docs are awesome and have my absolute respect. I’m sorry your NP didn’t work out, I hope you find one that does. If the NP left because they wanted more supervision it sounds like the NP knew their limitations and wanted to provide safe care. There’s definitely worse things than this.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Let's keep personal attacks out of this thread. If you have had arguments or debates in other threads, it is derailing to drag them up here in an effort to insult the other user. @MedicineZ0Z I suggest you follow suit and block @IknowImnotadoctor so that the two of you can stop filling up threads with your bickering. If it continues, I will have to take moderator action.

 

[762513]

Let's keep personal attacks out of this thread. If you have had arguments or debates in other threads, it is derailing to drag them up here in an effort to insult the other user. @MedicineZ0Z I suggest you follow suit and block @IknowImnotadoctor so that the two of you can stop filling up threads with your bickering. If it continues, I will have to take moderator action.

Seems fair. I already hit my button.

 

[Cheeni17]

If nps want full practice rights they should sit for all the same boards as physicians. It’s the way it is and should be. I agree with the NP here saying medicine is not a shielded pile of knowledge available to only those with MD or DO behind your name but the simple truth is most nps do not go out of their way to learn what they need to know. At least med school and residency beats it into you. There are some excellent np out there but that is not the norm. We need them in healthcare since there are def enough patients to go around and they help with notes and PRNs in the hospital and also can allow us or themselves to spend time with patients. But the AANP does most NPs a giant disservice by promoting the NP = MD argument. The anecdotal amount of “dang you should know that’s” I’ve encountered with NPs is a lot higher than PA or MDs

The OP of this thread is off his rocker though of course some people trust and respect some NPs. Caring and spending time with patients goes a long way. But no to independent practice until they sit for steps and residency

 

[Cheeni17]

It's a problem when you try to claim equivalency to physicians. As long as you aren't doing that, no one has any issues.

A lot of NPS do not claim this. I do not think the one here is. The ones that do are the scary ones