how in the world are we to survive?

[exia80]

k for my school, we have a budget of about 50 grand. after tuition, fees, and books, we only have about 14 grand to live on. how do we survive on this....i know it is possible if you live really humbly, but i really don't see how it is possible to only have $225 per month for food and $415/month for an apartment. anyone care to comment? i think the bugetary values are way to low. in Arizona the decent apartments were $600. month. sigh...

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[voltron77]

I am in the same boat. I guess we have to budget and really learn to cut corners if we can. It will definitely be a sacrifice and a learning experience for all of us. Hang in there and stay positive. You'll get through like others before you. Much luck at AZCOM and in the future.

Also, try talking to your financial aid office. I am sure they could help you out with sample budgets and other ways to live off your financial aid!!!

 

[OSUdoc08]

take out a private loan if it's too bad.......you're going to be a doctor, so there will be no problem paying it back....

 

[bigdan]

Maybe just rumor, but I was told that physicians have the lowest default percentage on their loans, as compared to any other profession, despite the amount taken out.

dc

 

[Celestron2000]

You can save money on an appartment by getting apartment mates, generally the more people share a place (even with a room for each) the cost to each individual goes down. Definately can have it's down sides, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm gonna live in a dorm room, which is about half the cost of an apartment (even an efficiency.)

 

[k's mom]

You are still a student, so live like one. Cheap apartment, used books, Roommate(s), very-used-car, mac n' cheese, etc.... You have very little sympathy from me because we are a family of four surviving on $12,000/yr. I never thought we could do it, but it works. Besides, cost-of-living in Arizona is quite low, comparably. If private loans are distasteful, get a part-time job.

 

[inshanesworld]

take out a private loan if it's too bad.......you're going to be a doctor, so there will be no problem paying it back....

I don't believe you fully understand the situation. The limit that is being referred to is an aggregate limit for ALL aid. this means between federal loans, private loans, scholarships, and grants this person can only get $50,000. If they try to do another private loan to take out more the school notifies the lender that the limit has been reached and the loan is automatically denied.

I am in a similar boat because the stupid budget is based on a single student not one with a spouse and kids. So unfortunately my spouse will have to get a job and I will have to borrow money from relatives. Stars to the federal government for the child tax credit any way we can not discriminate against those of us who are not single?!?

 

[WyldeWolf1]

Didn't you know the score going in? I'm trying to find some sympathy, but we all signed up for the hell known as medical school of our own free will.

I'm married too; my wife is definitely going to have to work. We'd like to start having children now, but we realize that medical school isn't terribly conducive to that. If I did have children, I certainly would have weighed that heavily in my decisions and calculations pertaining to medical school. If birth control fails us, then we'll tighten our belts and make it happen. Hey, I'm supposed to be making life-and-death decisions in four years. I can handle life on a budget, right?

Tap all of your resources, don't plan on supporting a stay-at-home spouse, and re-examine what you really need to get by. That does not include multiple or nice cars (or any at all if public transportation is available), washer/dryer, TV, home internet connection, delicious meals, movies, etc. Plan on entertainment being a library book or conversation with your family.

A little exercise I use is: what do I need when I go camping? Why do I need this thing that's not on the camping list to get by? You'll sometimes find it hard to justify much beyond a roof over your head and food on the table, and hopefully that will help you eliminate the excess. The funny thing is, you may find you don't miss some of it. I used to be a TV addict, but couldn't afford a TV throughout my undergraduate years, and now I don't even care to watch it unless one of my favorite sports teams is playing.

Edit: Oops, almost forgot one of the most important things. The military will pay for everything plus give you a monthly stipend if you pay them back 3 or 4 years (depending on how many they paid for). Usually, students are not advised to take this scholarship for purely financial reasons, but if things really are THAT desperate, it's a way out.

 

[inshanesworld]

Thanks Dad/Mom! I have lived in extreme poverty situations (my family was homeless many times during my life yet here I am)

So your response is buck up soldier you should have know better? So what is the solution? If you were too stupid to go to planned parenthood then you should not be here? There is a diversifying thought!

If that were only the point...

The point is that it is hypocritical of the government to promote families in such superficial ways (tokan tax cuts) and not where it really matters. Do we really want to increase the percentage of Downs Syndrome kids because we are encouraging people to wait to have a life. As referencing the original string.... I don't care how frugal you are.... $14,000 for a family is ridiculous when you consider that after health insurance and dwelling costs you are left with $350 a month to get food clothing, etc. Hell we are not even including utilities. Not everyone is fortunate to have others milk off of while we pursue our own dreams (spouse, fam, etc.) Honestly, if we were talking about grants thats one thing but loans!?! What it the harm in letting someone decide for themselves what their personal debt limits should be and not some white shirt on the hill! What is an extra $40,000 (which incidentally would life most medical school student families out of the pits of poverty) when you will make $250,000 a year? I am of the personal belief that the financial aid limits should not be based on the terrible assumption that students are single but should take into account the nature of that persons family needs, as well.

 

[LP1CW]

WyldeWolfe, you couldn't afford a TV in college? Come on, I just bought a new one for 100 bucks, new, 27", at Circuit City.

You chose not to have one. For some reason, there is a group of people that think that it's intellectually superior to not have a TV, watch TV. I prefer to remain connected to the world. I don't eat about many hours watching TV, but there are lots of good programs out there and not the reality crap.

 

[aquaboy]

We asked ourselves the same question when we started med school. My wife was pregnant and we knew she couldn't work this first year. We were barely able to scrape by. This next year though she is working part time at home and we are moving into cheaper housing so life should be a little easier. There are lots of jobs that spouses can do that keep them in the home. Explore all of your options. I'm kind of glad that we are forced to live on the single budget because it helps us to be frugal and really question our "needs" vs. "wants". You can survive, a lot of other med students and their families have walked the path before.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

The point is that it is hypocritical of the government to promote families in such superficial ways (tokan tax cuts) and not where it really matters. Do we really want to increase the percentage of Downs Syndrome kids because we are encouraging people to wait to have a life. As referencing the original string.... I don't care how frugal you are.... $14,000 for a family is ridiculous when you consider that after health insurance and dwelling costs you are left with $350 a month to get food clothing, etc. Hell we are not even including utilities. Not everyone is fortunate to have others milk off of while we pursue our own dreams (spouse, fam, etc.) Honestly, if we were talking about grants thats one thing but loans!?! What it the harm in letting someone decide for themselves what their personal debt limits should be and not some white shirt on the hill! What is an extra $40,000 (which incidentally would life most medical school student families out of the pits of poverty) when you will make $250,000 a year? I am of the personal belief that the financial aid limits should not be based on the terrible assumption that students are single but should take into account the nature of that persons family needs, as well.

I personally have a problem with my tax dollars supporting whole families. If you can't pay the bills, then someone needs to get a job.

The harm in letting someone decide for themselves, is that these loans are subsizided and guaranteed by the government. This means that if you get overextended and default on your loan, Uncle Sam picks up the tab.

No med student I know is in the pits of poverty. You can live on $14,000 per year.

 

[inshanesworld]

Hey JBJ...just for your info the only subsidized loans that are paid for by taxpayers are stafford subsidized loans (hence the name) with the yearly limit being $8,500.00 per year. However, the private loans are not supported by ANY tax dollars. NO those are paid for entirely by the person receiving the loan. Thus your eloquent point is moot.

Second moot point.... defaulted private loans are not paid for by the government either (They are not guaranteed by the government). No, when you default on a private loan it is paid for by the business issuing the loan. This company, of course, has an insurance policy on your loan so even if you default they still get paid.

Lastly, Even if in some fairytale land they up the limits on subsidized loans and the taxpayers end up paying more...how much money in taxes do you think a physician earning $350,000/year pays in their life time? I am sure that it is more than $10,000.

Still talking about tax dollars because a person is not allowed to take out private loans (see above) many students both single and othewise do things like for go medical insurance (at least $2000/year) and instead are on Medicaid. There is a brilliant plan. Next there are several I know on foodstamps, WIC, and other forms of government aid. So you are suggesting that by not letting the students take out more private loans the taxpayers will pay less? (This is a critical thinking test )

I don't think that anyone here is not willing to do all it takes (jobs, etc.) to make it work...the point is that it could be just a bit easier, not much, just a smidge.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Hey JBJ...just for your info the only subsidized loans that are paid for by taxpayers are stafford subsidized loans (hence the name) with the yearly limit being $8,500.00 per year. However, the private loans are not supported by ANY tax dollars. NO those are paid for entirely by the person receiving the loan. Thus your eloquent point is moot.

Second moot point.... defaulted private loans are not paid for by the government either (They are not guaranteed by the government). No, when you default on a private loan it is paid for by the business issuing the loan. This company, of course, has an insurance policy on your loan so even if you default they still get paid.

Lastly, Even if in some fairytale land they up the limits on subsidized loans and the taxpayers end up paying more...how much money in taxes do you think a physician earning $350,000/year pays in their life time? I am sure that it is more than $10,000.

Still talking about tax dollars because a person is not allowed to take out private loans (see above) many students both single and othewise do things like for go medical insurance (at least $2000/year) and instead are on Medicaid. There is a brilliant plan. Next there are several I know on foodstamps, WIC, and other forms of government aid. So you are suggesting that by not letting the students take out more private loans the taxpayers will pay less? (This is a critical thinking test )

I don't think that anyone here is not willing to do all it takes (jobs, etc.) to make it work...the point is that it could be just a bit easier, not much, just a smidge.

Indeed, private loans do not cost the taxpayer money either in interest subsidies or in guarantees. Banks probably do not, however, have insurance to pay for this. They usually only get insurance for catastropic losses, such as the World Trade Center on 9/11. Default rates certainly affect the ability to get good interest rates on private loans, and cost all of us money.

However, Stafford Unsubsidized and Subsidized loans do cost US taxpayers. Subsidized cost more, certainly, but the extra 30,000 in unsub money also cost the US billions. This is the main reason that the 30,000 ceiling is not being raised in the near/intermediate future. This is also a major part of the reason that the loan consolidation programs are probably going to end soon.

For the record, I am also against medical students being able to qualify for Medicaid, WIC, and food stamps. I know several people myself. They had a decent amount of money, but now bought a new car and keep the rest in cash to hide it. This is a loophole in the system.

 

[inshanesworld]

JBJ...WOW. I think that is terribly unfortunate when people hide that stuff. It just makes it harder for everyone. Though I do think that people who really need it should get it, it is sad that people who don't take it from those who do.

 

[WyldeWolf1]

Thanks Dad/Mom! I have lived in extreme poverty situations (my family was homeless many times during my life yet here I am)

So your response is buck up soldier you should have know better? So what is the solution? If you were too stupid to go to planned parenthood then you should not be here? There is a diversifying thought!

If that were only the point...

You missed my point entirely. I never said people with families shouldn't go to med school. I hope to have kids by my third year, actually, and it's hard to wait even that long. My first sentence's point was that I'm having a hard time fathoming that you didn't see this financial state of affairs coming, and that you find it so hopeless. You said yourself that you have gone from homeless to med student; you obviously have fortitude and intelligence to make things happen. Plenty of people make it through. So "buck up, soldier", as you said. Take the advice everyone on this thread is writing for your sake, and become a doctor. You're skilled and hard-working enough to make it into med school; I have faith you can make it happen.

I never said anything about mooching your way. If you do have resources to tap, then great---use them. If you don't, that's not the end of the world. No one paid a dime for me; I lived in the projects, busted my butt for scholarships, worked, ate peanut butter crackers for weeks, etc. I'll bet you had to do a lot of the same stuff.

I guess overall I'm just baffled by the tone I'm getting from your posts: depair. You made it into medical school, exia80...you've arrived. You've done what is absolutely impossible for most people. Have more faith in yourself.

PS--I can understand if you had been pissed if my post had ended at the first sentence, but do you honestly believe that was a post oriented towards flaming you? I was going for "You can do it."

WyldeWolfe, you couldn't afford a TV in college? Come on, I just bought a new one for 100 bucks, new, 27", at Circuit City.

You chose not to have one. For some reason, there is a group of people that think that it's intellectually superior to not have a TV, watch TV. I prefer to remain connected to the world. I don't eat about many hours watching TV, but there are lots of good programs out there and not the reality crap.

You're right. I chose not to have one, because health insurance for my wife, bills, etc were a lot more important. It was very low on the priority list, which was what I was trying to point out. Show me where I ever said it was an intellectually superior lifestyle to go without TV. Anyone who knocks Cartoon Network, ESPN, American Chopper, or Scrubs is in my book. I was trying to encourage the OP by showing that when you do have to go without some luxuries, you may find that things aren't as bad as you thought they'd be. You may even like some of it.

Btw, it's Wyldewolf1 or just Wyldewolf, Mr. Quayle.

 

[Blade28]

k for my school, we have a budget of about 50 grand. after tuition, fees, and books, we only have about 14 grand to live on. how do we survive on this....i know it is possible if you live really humbly, but i really don't see how it is possible to only have $225 per month for food and $415/month for an apartment. anyone care to comment? i think the bugetary values are way to low. in Arizona the decent apartments were $600. month. sigh...

I'm relying on private loans through lending companies and banks too. And credit card debt.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't believe you fully understand the situation. The limit that is being referred to is an aggregate limit for ALL aid. this means between federal loans, private loans, scholarships, and grants this person can only get $50,000. If they try to do another private loan to take out more the school notifies the lender that the limit has been reached and the loan is automatically denied.

I am in a similar boat because the stupid budget is based on a single student not one with a spouse and kids. So unfortunately my spouse will have to get a job and I will have to borrow money from relatives. Stars to the federal government for the child tax credit any way we can not discriminate against those of us who are not single?!?

Your statement is partially false--private loans are not "reported" to anyone if they go over budget---the financial aid office is willing to work with you if you have additional expenses. There is no $50,000 total limit. The only limit that exists is the total Stafford loan limit of $189,000.

Here is my Budget & Award:

Total Budget: $49,916

Subsidized Stafford: $8,500
Unsubsidized Stafford: $30,000
Perkins: $6,000
Total Loans: $44,500

Private Loan: The difference between budget & total loans, or whatever additional amount is needed. (NO LIMIT)

Notice Scholarships & Grants have not even been accounted for.

 

[inshanesworld]

Good luck!! Try calling Citibank, Medloans, Total Access, or any other private lender and then reply. I think that you will find that they stay in very close communication with the school (Remember that funds are dispersed in certian ways and only if they have a promissary note of file). If you have a school that does not due this you are a rare fortunate one. Also, Most private lenders do have an aggregate limit of $220,000. There is one that does $235,000. These limits included all federal, alternative (private), and relocations loans. I get all of my information from by brother-in-law who is the director of scholarships and financial aid for one of the schools.

The $50,000 is an estimate. Every school sets their own limits which is... the costs of tuition, fees, books, living expense (single student in student housing), transportation (does not included car payment or insurance), food, and health insurance. If you live with your parents the limits actually drop 'cause the housing cost is assumed to be reduced. For our state school the limit is $39,000 for a private school I know of their limit is $55,000. It all depends on where you go.

 

[inshanesworld]

You missed my point entirely. I never said people with families shouldn't go to med school. I hope to have kids by my third year, actually, and it's hard to wait even that long. My first sentence's point was that I'm having a hard time fathoming that you didn't see this financial state of affairs coming, and that you find it so hopeless. QUOTE]


If I misinterpreted your intentions I apologize.

I never said that I thought it was hopeless. Nor am I even remotely concerned about making it work. (I did not start this thread) I am simply saying that the system needs to be adjusted to improve the situation. Certainly it is within one's right to voice frustrations over a bureaucratic stumbling block. Is it not from that dialog that these things become ameliorated and new ideas are created?

Luckly, I did know before hand what I would be getting myself into and as such am amply prepared....but what about those married/single w/dependant doctors-to-be who are not and they are faced with the choice of eating or pursuing the dream. Are we losing more Roger Bannisters and Joseph Listers because they simply lack the means. Why can we not let them take their who fate in their hands (and put their own credit on the line) and make it just a bit easier for them and all. I think it is possible and necessary.

I do appreciate your efforts to lift any down trodden spirits.

 

[jpwa1988]

Key Bank offers a private loan called the MedAchiever with NO aggregate maximum! However, the total amount you are eligible for is determined by your school?s financial aid office.

 

[k's mom]

"...don't plan on supporting a stay-at-home spouse,..."

I just have to laugh...I am a stay-at-home spouse, and believe me, the loans/my husband are certainly NOT supporting me, or our children! We live on the exact same amount of loans that his single, early-20-something classmates have. Those of you who think you know something about the cost of children don't seem to take into account the simple cost of childcare. For us, with two children, it would range approximately $1200.00-$1500.00 PER MONTH, and that does not include all of the sick days you lose at work, the child's sick days at daycare that are not reimbursed, and the doctor/dentist co-pays and bills that go along with non-state supported health care. As a professional educator, having a full-time job would actually COST us money because of the monthly childcare/health insurance expense, plus the reduced amount of qualified aid for tuition. Working part-time a few nights per week and doing free-lance work periodically, we are eligible for EXCELLENT no-cost health care from the state (don't you dare start a fight about graduate students being lazy and unethical for "taking" government aid....I worked and paid taxes for ten years, and when my husband starts his practice he will be paying upwards of $78,000.00/year to Uncle Sam, so back off.), and we are able to scrape out a bit of a "normal" family life because we can schedule family time around my husband's schedule. No concerns about our children growing up "without thier Daddy" because of Medical training or any such nonsense. Besides, why doesn't anyone complain that health profession graduate students (essentially, the only graduate programs where students are not regularly supported by T.A./R.A. stipends and have little, if any, time for outside employment)are not eligible for the reduced price childcare options that are openly available(and supported by the federal government) to undergraduate students? The only way for my husband to qualify for LOANS for HIS children's care is if we were divorced and he had custody of the children. What kind of sense is that supposed to make?

Just my .02 cent ramble.

 

[inshanesworld]

Preach it k's mom !!

 

[ItsNotATumor]

We develop a greater understanding of malnutrition and poverty first hand... then write about it in our residency apps!

 

[Cuteasaurus]

Ok, so what is the rationale behind an overall finacial aid cap? And, providing there is one, why wouldn't a FA office up your cap if you had additional obligations? Are caps the same for everyone in a med school class or are they partially determined by FAFSA/Needs Access/etc info?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions, but I'm having a hard-time figuring out why a family of 5 would be expected to live on the same budget I will be.

 

[mpp]

The financial aid cap is simples. If you allow people to borrow what they want there will always be people that will borrow far beyond their ability to pay back. Check this website for a list of people that defaulted on the old HEAL loans for health professionals.

Federal aid for students is for the student, not for the family. The federal Stafford loan program is for student aid, not family aid. The family might be able to get aid via welfare or food stamps. Check with your state's department of human services for the eligibility requirements for Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF).

 

[GeneGoddess]

k for my school, we have a budget of about 50 grand. after tuition, fees, and books, we only have about 14 grand to live on. how do we survive on this....i know it is possible if you live really humbly, but i really don't see how it is possible to only have $225 per month for food and $415/month for an apartment. anyone care to comment? i think the bugetary values are way to low. in Arizona the decent apartments were $600. month. sigh...

When I started med school in '96, I was earning a $12K/yr stipend. I lived by myself and lived just fine without taking out ANY loans. Come on, people, haven't you ever heard of poor students? Even on $1000/mo (pre-tax, of course), I made enough to buy myself a motorcycle (for commuting purposes - they park free), wear decent clothes, and go out. When I started the grad school portion, my stipend went up to $18K and I started funding a Roth IRA ($3K/yr) and bought a condo AND a new car. Learn to BUDGET! Pack a lunch every day! Use coupons! Shop at discount stores! If I can do it, so can you!

One of my grad student buddies managed to get his PhD (just a few months ago) with his wife also a PhD student (combined income around $32-40K over the seven year period) AND they had two kids. The median income in the US is $40K. You can't buy Starbucks everyday, but you won't starve on $14K.

 

[GIGATT]

k for my school, we have a budget of about 50 grand. after tuition, fees, and books, we only have about 14 grand to live on. how do we survive on this....i know it is possible if you live really humbly, but i really don't see how it is possible to only have $225 per month for food and $415/month for an apartment. anyone care to comment? i think the bugetary values are way to low. in Arizona the decent apartments were $600. month. sigh...

Not sure exactly what to tell you BUT, caseroles caseroles caseroles!!! My husband and i live off of 17,000 a year and we have two kids ( with no gov. or outside help). You CAN do it but yes, it requires you live MODESTLY...ooooooooh so modestly. No smelly lotion or nights out to the movies. Basically it requires re-inventing yourself, which is fine because then it's easy to find out what really matters and what doesn't. Noodles and rice go a long way!
Good luck!!!

 

[RasputinDO]

You can certainly live off of the budget provided and (provided no prior loans) have less than 200,000 in loans even at many of the private schools. I think a big part of it, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, is that many med students come from families that were relatively well off. Now this is not always the case, but it certainly makes it seem like a daunting task I'm sure. Also, I don't see why people think it is so wrong for people to take govt. aid (if they are eligible of course). Particularly medical students who will more than contribute their part to the govt. in the course of their career. At least they'll be able to eventually help to give back to these programs....something that is not always a likely occurence. Just my opinion.

Josh

 

[exia80]

I guess overall I'm just baffled by the tone I'm getting from your posts: depair. You made it into medical school, exia80...you've arrived. You've done what is absolutely impossible for most people. Have more faith in yourself.

my posts was not about dispair but about the limits being a tad too low. that was the whole point.....

 

[exia80]

I think a big part of it, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, is that many med students come from families that were relatively well off. Now this is not always the case, but it certainly makes it seem like a daunting task I'm sure. Also, I don't see why people think it is so wrong for people to take govt. aid (if they are eligible of course).
Josh

my family had to scrape by for most of my life. I know what it is like to stand in lines for 6 hours to get a pound of sugar and so on....

i agree about the government aid.....as long as they dont abuse it...i hate seeing people in designer clothes and 80 grand cars who have government aid cause wahtever my family has now, we earned through hard work