How competitive are the BS/MD programs?

[Az1698]

Hahaha thanks guys for defending my honor. Unsurprisingly, our friend has stopped posting...

Unfortunately, my life includes other things than SDN. I know, shocker, but people have real lives outside online forums.

Vandy full scholarship huh? Well, I guess you might be a tad bit smart

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[Crazyday]

Do you really? I wasn't able to tell with how hard you were trying to put yourself above some people on an internet forum, people you'll never meet. I figured someone with a real life that they were satisfied with wouldn't have to resort to an internet forum to try to be cool, but I could be wrong.

By the way, did you ever think that maybe the reason you only got 1 acceptance out of 6 with your godly stats was the way people perceive you? It was probably them just misunderstanding your awesomeness, damn those fools.

 

[mathlegend]

That was amusing xD

 

[CScull]

Unfortunately, my life includes other things than SDN. I know, shocker, but people have real lives outside online forums.

Vandy full scholarship huh? Well, I guess you might be a tad bit smart

He strikes again.

I'm sorry, I was soo distracted by your "no joke" stats that I almost missed your pathetic jab, so why don’t you tell us about your exciting life then Az? It must be so awesome having a real life.

What the heck? After insulting her you say she's a "tad bit smart"? That's like saying you're "only a smidgen of an arrogant jerk".

 

[Az1698]

He strikes again.

I'm sorry, I was soo distracted by your "no joke" stats that I almost missed your pathetic jab, so why don't you tell us about your exciting life then Az? It must be so awesome having a real life.

What the heck? After insulting her you say she's a "tad bit smart"? That's like saying you're "only a smidgen of an arrogant jerk".

Wow, someones lacking in the mental department .

When I said that she was a tad bit smart (With ) it was sarcasm - hence the smiley that was winking. If you can't get it, your not that smart. Lets hear your stats, when you use sarcasm aimed at mine. And saying I have no life, you and many others are discussing how to get a GF, with stories from Jefgreen ( I know your not looking for a GF). That's just sad...

To the other poster who said I have no life because I am trying trump other people, I never started this - people came in and commented on my stats. So Shut up/.

My life: Varsity football (3 year player - RB) in the fall, president of NHS & Pre-med club, Winter and spring varsity track, voted homecoming king (signifying that I am well liked_), Class historian, volunteer and shadow in the hospital, and spend loads of time w/ my freinds. Now yours?

 

[MilkmanAl]

You realize that the "I have a life" contest is right up there with the "my dad can beat up your dad" argument, right? I'd imagine someone who thinks so incredibly highly of himself would want to make arguments befitting his age group instead of regressing into childhood. I mean, I get that you somehow have to justify to yourself that all this extracurricular and academic junk you're doing is worthwhile by equating it with a way to make yourself better than everyone else, but life isn't a penis length contest. Doing more stuff doesn't make you cooler or better than anyone. It just makes you busier.

edit: By the way, I was runner up for homecoming king and hardly ever hung out with anyone from my school. Just something to think about.

edit again: Your high school has a pre-med club? Seriously?

 

[Az1698]

edit: By the way, I was runner up for homecoming king and hardly ever hung out with anyone from my school. Just something to think about.

How many kids were in your grade? Mine had 446, and juniors were also allowed to be nominated. Total of like 850 kids in the competition. I'm not belittling your runner up title, but did your competition have that many people eligible? That could be something to think about...

 

[MilkmanAl]

Dude, I think you're missing the overall point which is this: What you've done so far doesn't make you a genius or special or awesome or better than anyone in any fashion. It doesn't make you experienced or knowledgeable or worthy of that high horse you constantly talk down from. You're just another high schooler interested in medicine. That's great and all, and you've found the right forum. However, everyone else here has excellent qualifications and similar interests, but most of them express their interests without sounding obnoxious or arrogant. For all your popularity, intelligence, and friends, you sure are lacking in the social grace department.

By the way, I know it's hard to believe that you aren't fantastic when you've (evidently) been told your whole life that you are and have become convinced of that notion. In high school and before, it's easy to be on top of the pack. You haven't culled out the people who don't give a crap yet. Later in college, you'll see quite a large difference in how intelligent the people in your classes are. As I said in another thread, there aren't too many idiots who take organic chem 2. For most people on the med school track who don't drop out when they see that everyone else in their college classes is pretty dang competent, too, they don't really hit that brick wall of normalcy until either the MCAT or when they're actually in med school. Med schools are more selective than ever, and I think it's safe to say that the people who get in solely through hard work are few and far between. That is, everyone there is smart - really smart - and just about all of them were like you (and me) in high school. Many of them have never seen a B and certainly not a C in their lives. Well, that first med school test rolls around, and hey, half the class finds themselves in the bottom half of the class. Funny how that works. "That won't happen to me!" you say, but they felt the same way. You're just another fish in the sea, man. Face it.

 

[dragonfly99]

AZ
You come across as arrogant and not very friendly. It seems that you have accomplished a good deal in high school and you have a good ACT score. What people on here are trying to say is that in college + med school you will encounter a lot of people with similar talents and academic abilities. You may feel like you are the "top dog" but you will be in the mix with other "top dogs". How you react to that is going to have a big impact on your life.

Medicine fellow.

 

[MilkmanAl]

And of course dragonfly says what I was trying to get at in 5 sentences while I was editing. Figures!

 

[ButImLETired]

I agree with both Milkman and Dragonfly.

The true issue here, AZ, is that you don't seem to understand that you're just in a place that's very different from where post-college med school applicants are. You boast of your SAT and ACT scores as if they are the same as the MCAT, and compare your GPA to Milkman's as if they are cut of the same cloth- neither is the case. Hell, you've even suggested to premeds that you read their PS because you've written one as well.

As Milkman has said, most successful college premeds were high-achieving high school students. I went to a high-ranked college prep high school and then a high-ranked prestigious undergrad, and I've only really ever known very smart, conscientious, diligent students. Your SAT and ACT scores aren't impressive to us because we've seen them before, tons of times. Are you above average for the high schoolers of the country? Sure. Are you above average for premeds who get into med school? Not really. And honestly, if you are, you don't know it yet. High school grades mean nothing. SATs mean nothing. College- especially tough classes at a tough university- is a different ballgame, because far more is expected of you, and many of your peers are just as driven and just as smart if not smarter. It is SUCH a bad idea to go into this process thinking you're the big man on campus. I held many of my friends in college as they cried their eyes out over getting their first B ever. One of my siblings went to MIT and she had a nervous breakdown when she realized she wasn't always the smartest person in the room anymore. I've seen it tons of times, and it ain't pretty. Humility doesn't only serve you well socially, but it's also self-preserving.

Another thing you don't really seem to understand is that you were not in any way, shape, or form held to the same standards as college students applying to med school. If that's what they told you to make you feel important, fabulous, but you can forget it. You don't know science yet. You don't know how to write at a high-level yet, so they judged your PS as compared to PS's written by other high schoolers. Your grades are great, but there is zero guarantee that they'll continue to be so when you're taking orgo, or physics. Your SAT scores are nice, but again, nothing we haven't seen before. Find me an Ivy Leaguer who doesn't have those SAT scores and that GPA. You think they all got a 34+ on the MCAT? You think they're all great writers? You think they all got a 4.0 in college? They didn't. They also didn't all get into med school.

The beauty of BS/MD's in fact is that you get to bypass a lot of that big reality check that is the med school app process. Did really well compared to the other students in your class? Great. Doesn't matter, cause someone else out there did better. Think your MCAT is impressive? Think again. Oh and by the way, that research experience? Totally pathetic next to the kid who discovered some random gene and already has his PhD in biochem. That's your competition. Not high schoolers.

 

[Az1698]

OK, I admit that I was a bit overblown in my reaction. I can see where you guys are coming from, that I won't be #1 in el futuro. My only thing is this: Of the many MD apps and stuff I've seen, My EC's are up there, greater than many people I've seen. Maybe it will be different, and I have your expereince to go from.

 

[mmmcdowe]

OK, I admit that I was a bit overblown in my reaction. I can see where you guys are coming from, that I won't be #1 in el futuro. My only thing is this: Of the many MD apps and stuff I've seen, My EC's are up there, greater than many people I've seen. Maybe it will be different, and I have your expereince to go from.

I shook the hand of the President of the United States, who personally congratulated me for graduating with the highest possible academic standing out of a graduating class several times larger than your high school. What have you really accomplished thats on that level? Your stats are nothing to us because they don't cross over, not because they aren't great for your level. You are comparing high school shadowing and high school research to college ECS. Just because we do the same hours of the same titled EC doesn't mean its the same thing. And if they are, show us. What journal was your publication in or what journals were they in? What did you do to earn the authorship? Also, before you start placing so much weight on what people claim their scores and ECs are, remember that this is the internet. I can say my SAT score was a 2400, but that doesn't mean that it really is.

Another thing about your ECs. Even if they are equivalent, they are still not the same (except the research perhaps). You did those ECs in high school, where you get off every day at 3. Doing the same amount in college while balancing a scattered class schedule, living on your own, possibly working, etc is a little more difficult.

 

[CScull]

Wow, someones lacking in the mental department .

When I said that she was a tad bit smart (With ) it was sarcasm - hence the smiley that was winking. If you can't get it, your not that smart. Lets hear your stats, when you use sarcasm aimed at mine. And saying I have no life, you and many others are discussing how to get a GF, with stories from Jefgreen ( I know your not looking for a GF). That's just sad...

To the other poster who said I have no life because I am trying trump other people, I never started this - people came in and commented on my stats. So Shut up/.

My life: Varsity football (3 year player - RB) in the fall, president of NHS & Pre-med club, Winter and spring varsity track, voted homecoming king (signifying that I am well liked_), Class historian, volunteer and shadow in the hospital, and spend loads of time w/ my freinds. Now yours?

I knew you were being sarcastic, idiot. I was just surprised at how you managed sound like an arrogant jerk, again, when you should have just apologized sincerely.

I go on that thread for comic relief, idiot. And I don't need to tell you my stats to know I'm smarter than someone who uses phrases like "Lets hear your stats, when you use sarcasm aimed at mine."

Oh gosh. (Signifying I am well liked) ? I dunno, but you must be a lot less of a douche in person then.



I'm a girl so a pissing contest with you would be quite awkward, no thanks.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I knew you were being sarcastic, idiot. I was just surprised at how you managed sound like an arrogant jerk, again, when you should have just apologized sincerely.

I go on that thread for comic relief, idiot. And I don't need to tell you my stats to know I'm smarter than someone who uses phrases like "Lets hear your stats, when you use sarcasm aimed at mine."

Oh gosh. (Signifying I am well liked) ? I dunno, but you must be a lot less of a douche in person then.



I'm a girl so a pissing contest with you would be quite awkward, no thanks.

Funny story. When I was hanging out with some Mayo surgery residents, they had about a half hour conversation about the anatomical necessities for a girl to participate in one.

 

[CScull]

Funny story. When I was hanging out with some Mayo surgery residents, they had about a half hour conversation about the anatomical necessities for a girl to participate in one.

The anatomical need for a girl to participate in a pissing contest? Mayo residents?

 

[ButImLETired]

That would certainly be something. Perhaps it would turn into more of a squatting challenge? How boring. That certainly takes away from the drama of pulling out a tape measure.

 

[CScull]

Who can pee the fastest? Or who can pee the most? It would be like a joint competition at a kegger, drink 5 beers and then whoever fills an empty can first wins. It would be kinda nasty though...

 

[FuturaDocta]

It would be kinda hard for the girl to win because they have less pressure to let out. Also, I think girls have smaller bladders. Seriously, some go like other hour. Either that, or we have really good kidneys.

 

[ButImLETired]

This is all very gross, but I am rather glad that this disaster of a thread has become a discussion about women peeing. How fitting.

 

[CScull]

HAHA.

I think this is my favorite of my derailings yet. It is a good one. Though I can't take the credit really... who is mmmcdowe and how can we ever thank him for his awesome new topic?

 

[mathlegend]

Hah I love how this thread originally about medical programs shifted to an argument about credentials then shifted to the topic ofpeeing

 

[mmmcdowe]

I believe that the primary concern was how to maintain the necessary leg height for the duration of the competition. Captain Morgan style, if you will.

 

[CScull]

Hmm, I would try and figure that out, but I'm not sure if I really want to...

 

[ButImLETired]

I believe that the primary concern was how to maintain the necessary leg height for the duration of the competition. Captain Morgan style, if you will.

Surely P&S is doing Captain Morgan urination studies as we speak. Or perhaps they will once you start....

 

[mmmcdowe]

Surely P&S is doing Captain Morgan urination studies as we speak. Or perhaps they will once you start....

Well, I do have to do a 4th year research project... Are you going to do yours on narcolepsy in the French population?

 

[ButImLETired]

Well, I do have to do a 4th year research project... Are you going to do yours on narcolepsy in the French population?

Naw, but I might consider working on Russians and their obsession with the motherland.

It's actually funny you said that, cause I do work in sleep medicine, and one of my bosses, the expert on narcolepsy, IS a french guy...HMMMMM....

 

[mmmcdowe]

Naw, but I might consider working on Russians and their obsession with the motherland.

It's actually funny you said that, cause I do work in sleep medicine, and one of my bosses, the expert on narcolepsy, IS a french guy...HMMMMM....

righto

 

[ButImLETired]

righto

teehee

 

[mmmcdowe]

Out of curiosity, do we consider case reports to be "research" here on SDN?

 

[DwyaneWade]

I can't believe Az is still touting his stats

Forget the fact it is high school, they are not even that impressive. Good, but not unique.

 

[unitofpain]

strangely, I feel out of place by actually responding to the question at hand...
anyways, I feel that BS/MD programs are definitely on par with the top undergrad institutions and are extremely competitive. I actually got accepted to Northwestern HPME, and I know several people who ended up turning down stanford, harvard, yale, princeton, etc. to attend. If you think about it, getting a free ticket to a med school the caliber of Northwestern is seriously hard to turn down (you have to maintain like a 3.0 gpa or something obscene). But I think unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure you want to be a doctor, its not worth it.

 

[RapplixGmed]

With an acceptance to a BS/MD program, you have a guaranteed ticket to medical school and a nearly guaranteed stress free life in undergrad compared to others from your graduating class who are going down the traditional premed path.

I'll let you ponder those two points for a moment... I didn't understand how important those two things actually were when I matriculated at my BS/MD but now that I'm headed off to medical school (I applied out) there is no doubt that it was completely worth it.

I have a pretty good point of comparison because I went to a top high school and I went to a BS/MD while many of my friends who wanted to do premed, who I consider much smarter than me, went to the HYP type places. How many of them are going to medical school next year? ZERO =O Most are applying in the application cycle starting this summer (with a few delaying even more) and really interested in how they end up doing in comparison. A lot of them have undergone much more stress than I have though and took major hits to their GPA in the process. Just something you should consider when comparing top undergrad to BS/MD programs. From my perspective, the choice is a no brainer.

 

[ACGator09]

God above kid, watch the spelling. Reading your posts gives me a headache, and English is my third language.

How do you not see that the MCAT (it's singular, by the way, which you'd know if you'd, oh, taken it) and the college gpa are 90% of the battle? How do you not realize how you look when you list things like top 10% of your class, homecoming king, and reiterate your SAT score ad nauseam? Dude, I don't even remember my SAT score. Most people DON'T. Med schools don't ask you about your SAT score or high school rank, cause guess what? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Incidentally, before starting college I had also volunteered, worked in a lab, and shadowed a surgeon. Not that impressive. That's a matter of meeting the right people. You know what isn't? Getting a high gpa in a tough major and taking the MCAT. Which, again, you wouldn't know, since you've never done anything of the sort. So yeah. Not impressed.

PS- I'd LOVE to see someone put "homecoming king" on his med school application. Lord. That would be a riot.

humility goes a long way, buddy. for your own sake deflate that ego a bit before you go on rotations during your 3rd year. let me reiterate: for your own sake.

back to the OP's question... one advice i would give is to really nail your interview -- as someone else had mentioned earlier, when you're at an interview, everybody's judged the same way, and i've had a few interviewers who straight up said "i have not looked at your application at all and i prefer to interview this way. now tell me about yourself". granted, this was during the "regular" admissions process in my senior year in college.

but yeah, now looking back im not surprised that i was rejected from the bs/md program i had applied to... i had not prepared for my interview at all and totally bombed it.

dont sweat it too much and good luck

 

[mathlegend]

How do you prepare for interviews? And heh, I'm still not sure whether I want to get a MD or DPM, but I'm leaning toward DPM right now. Are all these programs binding (have to attend their med school?)

 

[ACGator09]

if youre not sure which one you want to do i'd suggest that you wait and decide later after you get more exposure from both fields. for now look for and attend a school that you really like and enjoy the ride

 

[mathlegend]

Hm, yea. But if I decide to earn a MD, getting in one of these programs will really help, though I don't know my they'll accept me anyways. I've shadowed a few podiatrists, watched a few surgeries, so I got an idea of what that's like. If I get a MD, I'd probably go into orthopedics or emergency medicine, but of course, kinda early to tell. (And the ER where I volunteer....so boring. Probably since its no trauma...I should check out some larger, busier ERs)

 

[MilkmanAl]

ER volunteering is notoriously terrible. Wait til you do a rotation or have a job there to make that call.

I agree that if you're still conflicted when application time comes that you should just apply regularly. It sucks that you'll have to do all the clinical experience and research song and dance, but at least it won't pigeonhole you into something you might not like. On the other hand, you could apply solely to non-binding BS/MD programs so you can change your mind if you want.

 

[unitofpain]

take it from me, you should NOT prepare for the interviews.
for northwestern hpme, the interviews totaled about an hour, they were all really laidback. from what i saw, the people who were freaking out and had obviously prepared a lot did not fare too well.

 

[Future Doc1]

take it from me, you should NOT prepare for the interviews.
for northwestern hpme, the interviews totaled about an hour, they were all really laidback. from what i saw, the people who were freaking out and had obviously prepared a lot did not fare too well.

Well, it all depends on the person. If you think about being nervous,
chances are, you are probably going to be nervous. One should always prepare for an interview-- If you ever took a speach class, you would know this.

 

[mathlegend]

ER volunteering is notoriously terrible. Wait til you do a rotation or have a job there to make that call.

I agree that if you're still conflicted when application time comes that you should just apply regularly. It sucks that you'll have to do all the clinical experience and research song and dance, but at least it won't pigeonhole you into something you might not like. On the other hand, you could apply solely to non-binding BS/MD programs so you can change your mind if you want.

Eh, I basically see everything that goes on, since the docs don't mind me following them most of the time. The most exciting thing that happened was probably a guy who had to get his leg splint or a woman who had to get an appendectomy. If my stats end up good enough, I'll probably apply to some non binding programs

 

[mmmcdowe]

I recommend preparing somewhat for the interview. Read some common q's at least. Yes, you don't want to sit there and just recite something, but quite honestly I didn't have a good answer or opinion for some common questions until I sat down and thought about it a little. Knowing where you stand is better than being stumped for not knowing enough about something on the spot.

 

[Doodledog]

Everyone should prepare for any interview they have. If it is a a high school student, then the preparation can be straight-forward. Have someone you know that isn't a good friend or relative sit across a table from you and ask you questions about your high school experiences and your interests. Practice things like giving concise answers and maintaining eye contact.

Those things do NOT come naturally for everyone, even high school students. They certainly don't come naturally for college students interviewing and they can improve with practice.

 

[MossPoh]

Anyone else remember when the SAT was out of 1600? Good times.


I also feel like the numbers of the one kid are grossly inflated. If you are an active member of any club or sports team then you have barely any time to do anything during high school. I was in marching band, football, tennis, swimming, track and field, indoor drumline, pep band, pit band and a ton of other academic crap. Considering the research I've seen from undergrads, I have a hard time picturing a high school kid churning any significant published paper. Heck, I was a published poet but it was more of a sympathy thing. How does one create enough time to do TRUE volunteering for 25 days worth of time. Keep in mind, one has to actually travel somewhere to volunteer. Shadowing? Big friggin deal. It is pretty low yield after 50 hours anyway.

That kid can rip into me all he wants. I don't really care. I could be a mental midget compared to him, but hey, I'm in medical school and he isn't.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I wish my hs had a pre med club.

 

[Gallix23]

Not to start a war, but I don't believe this is true. In school, we are always trained to see things from someone who has experience: MilkmanAl, have you applied to/been accepted to any BS/MD programs personally?

Check out this website OP, you'll see who your up against. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/
Youll see lists of programs, stats of people who applied, ect. And yes, compared to most college bound students, my stats are "No Joke".

Don't believe everything that you read. My best friend and I both got into a very competitive university (6% acceptance all around) and I had "no joke" scores to get in, where he had much less credentials but did better in other areas, and we both still got in. So pretty much OP, shoot for the best, but by don't get discouraged by any means if you don't get that 2200+ SAT score and everything else, because there is always still a shot.

 

[mathlegend]

Whats so good about a premed club in hs?

And thanks, hopefully I'll be well rounded enough

 

[Az1698]

Anyone else remember when the SAT was out of 1600? Good times.


I also feel like the numbers of the one kid are grossly inflated. If you are an active member of any club or sports team then you have barely any time to do anything during high school. I was in marching band, football, tennis, swimming, track and field, indoor drumline, pep band, pit band and a ton of other academic crap. Considering the research I've seen from undergrads, I have a hard time picturing a high school kid churning any significant published paper. Heck, I was a published poet but it was more of a sympathy thing. How does one create enough time to do TRUE volunteering for 25 days worth of time. Keep in mind, one has to actually travel somewhere to volunteer. Shadowing? Big friggin deal. It is pretty low yield after 50 hours anyway.

How did I have time for my volunteering? Maybe, oh I dunno, I used my summers to volunteer so I could get a great deal of hours. But that doesn't make sense to someone like you, who has the intelligence of a fly right?

 

[mmmcdowe]

How did I have time for my volunteering? Maybe, oh I dunno, I used my summers to volunteer so I could get a great deal of hours. But that doesn't make sense to someone like you, who has the intelligence of a fly right?

This counts as a troll post, yes?

AZ, the bottom line is if you want us to think of you as an equal in terms of ECs, it is up to you to justify it. It has happened before that a high schooler has made it as much as most college pre-meds, but it is such a rare thing that you have the burden of proof upon you. If you didn't have so many people annoyed with you, you might be taken at your word. Unfortunately, you've pissed off too many of the big shots for that at this point. What did you do to get listed as a partial author on case studies, btw?

 

[WellWornLad]

Hmm, maybe your not that smart. Not including the Mcats & a college GPA, I have everything a traditional applicant could have: I've volunteered for 600 hrs, shadowed for 250 hrs, watched surgeries in the OR alongside residents, Have 2 published and 2 more research authorships on the way, been the president of many clubs, was homecoming king, and was top 10% compared to my peers.

I have a 1570 = 800 math, 770 cr, 630 wr. ACTs = 34

Guys like this are the reason that interviews are required. Just goes to show that you can jump through all the hoops in the world, but maturity only comes along whenever it damn well pleases.