How common are dismissals in Residency?

[rokshana]

I think the alternative is actually worse than a multicar MVC. More like a multicar MVC that occurred because of the preceding train wreck into the dumpster fire.

The old system didn't work well for anyone. Stellar applicant? Well, unless your #1 Harvard promised you that spot ahead of time (and you got it in writing), if #2 UCSF offers you an acceptance and you have two weeks to accept, but your Harvard interview is in three weeks, then you either take your #2 spot at UCSF or you roll the dice by declining them and see what Harvard says...

And visa-versa for stellar programs trying to get stellar applicants.

Now repeat x30,000, or however many applicants there are per year. Imagine just the amount of time all that correspondence/coordination takes. And how many broken hearts results because of subpar matches. Some programs and/or applicants got lucky, but ultimately more people/programs ended up more miserable than they could've been with the Match.

The Match is the least worst system we'll get. It essentially optimizes everyone's happiness (favoring the applicants though). Not happy with your Match? Well, odds are even higher you'd be even more unhappy with the old system.

The Match should really be considered more for college applications in general.

Maybe for arranged marriages as well?

The algorithm for the Match actually came from an algorithm used by Jewish matchmakers…

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[rokshana]

Are you kidding? The backlash would be severe. That is why it hasn't happened.

Here's something I found online: https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hp20230525.244710/

You must not be in the administration of a residency program. With an attitude like that, it is clear you do not care very much about the wellbeing of trainees. What you are describing is a race to the bottom. Only the trainees who are willing to put up with the worst working conditions should have jobs? How about we optimize for something better, like producing the best doctors possible?

I read online that only 10% of the striking air traffic controllers returned to work after being ordered to. So that does not sound like a very good solution. It says online it took 10 years for staffing levels to return to normal. Might I point out to you, people are not in love with the way the airplane travel industry works in this country.

The government already exerts extraordinary control over medical residency training for example by the maintenance of the NRMP monopoly.

Will it happen? Probably not …CAN it happen…absolutely.

They let go of a class of residents…they get locums/per diem hospitalists to work for a few months until they interview new candidates and restart the residency.

Or they dissolve the residency, hire a bunch of NPs and do without a teaching service .

Residents aren’t indispensable…they’re are far more hospital systems out there that run without residents…

 

[deleted1162863]

Will it happen? Probably not …CAN it happen…absolutely.

They let go of a class of residents…they get locums/per diem hospitalists to work for a few months until they interview new candidates and restart the residency.

Or they dissolve the residency, hire a bunch of NPs and do without a teaching service .

Residents aren’t indispensable…they’re are far more hospital systems out there that run without residents…

I don't really see the point of talking about theoretical scenarios. Anyway, at this point I am convinced unions work and no amount of trumpeting for the other side will change my mind.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I don't really see the point of talking about theoretical scenarios. Anyway, at this point I am convinced unions work and no amount of trumpeting for the other side will change my mind.

This comes up every so often and if I remember correctly there are some scenarios when being part of a resident union can be helpful but overall the effects seem to be minimal.

 

[deleted1162863]

This comes up every so often and if I remember correctly there are some scenarios when being part of a resident union can be helpful but overall the effects seem to be minimal.

If you have something objective I can look at to support that I would be happy to.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If you have something objective I can look at to support that I would be happy to.

Not sure what counts as objective, but here's what I found with a quick search.

Unionization in Residency

Worth a read https://www.wsj.com/articles/medical-residents-unionize-over-pay-working-conditions-11673832067?mod=mhp Inflation and worker shortage are two reasons of many motivating residents to unionize. The article talks about unionization efforts happening at Stanford Thoughts?

forums.studentdoctor.net

Residency Unions- Are they helpful or detrimental to the residency experience

Was wondering what kind of experience that those of you who are part of residency union have? What are the positives and negatives. There is an opinion piece that was written called The Fault in Our Systems- On Physician Unions. Do you think it has any interesting points? Any thoughts?

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[deleted1162863]

Not sure what counts as objective, but here's what I found with a quick search.

Unionization in Residency

Worth a read https://www.wsj.com/articles/medical-residents-unionize-over-pay-working-conditions-11673832067?mod=mhp Inflation and worker shortage are two reasons of many motivating residents to unionize. The article talks about unionization efforts happening at Stanford Thoughts?

forums.studentdoctor.net

Residency Unions- Are they helpful or detrimental to the residency experience

Was wondering what kind of experience that those of you who are part of residency union have? What are the positives and negatives. There is an opinion piece that was written called The Fault in Our Systems- On Physician Unions. Do you think it has any interesting points? Any thoughts?

forums.studentdoctor.net

Overall it seems like there is a lot of speculation from people without direct knowledge or experience. There are also stories online of the successes of resident unionization. As residents are a vulnerable group, I'm going to continue to support the idea. The only drawbacks seem to be for hospitals, for example their profits. Furthermore, another benefit of happier and healthier residents would be improved patient care.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Overall it seems like there is a lot of speculation from people without direct knowledge or experience. There are also stories online of the successes of resident unionization. As residents are a vulnerable group, I'm going to continue to support the idea. The only drawbacks seem to be for hospitals, for example their profits. Furthermore, another benefit of happier and healthier residents would be improved patient care.

Tell me you didn't actually read the threads I linked....

Unionization in Residency

Worth a read https://www.wsj.com/articles/medical-residents-unionize-over-pay-working-conditions-11673832067?mod=mhp Inflation and worker shortage are two reasons of many motivating residents to unionize. The article talks about unionization efforts happening at Stanford Thoughts?

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[rokshana]

I don't really see the point of talking about theoretical scenarios. Anyway, at this point I am convinced unions work and no amount of trumpeting for the other side will change my mind.

I thought you didn’t want to talk about theoreticals… 🤷🏽‍♀️

 

[rokshana]

Overall it seems like there is a lot of speculation from people without direct knowledge or experience. There are also stories online of the successes of resident unionization. As residents are a vulnerable group, I'm going to continue to support the idea. The only drawbacks seem to be for hospitals, for example their profits. Furthermore, another benefit of happier and healthier residents would be improved patient care.

The plural of anecdotal is not data…

 

[deleted1162863]

The plural of antidotal is not data…

I'm sorry if you're being clever, but isn't the phrase anecdotal?

 

[deleted1162863]

I thought you didn’t want to talk about theoreticals… 🤷🏽‍♀️

I don't. I'm only replying because other people are. Ultimately it is each residency group who has to decide whether to unionize.

 

[deleted1162863]

Tell me you didn't actually read the threads I linked....

Unionization in Residency

Worth a read https://www.wsj.com/articles/medical-residents-unionize-over-pay-working-conditions-11673832067?mod=mhp Inflation and worker shortage are two reasons of many motivating residents to unionize. The article talks about unionization efforts happening at Stanford Thoughts?

forums.studentdoctor.net

I looked at them.

 

[rokshana]

I'm sorry if you're being clever, but isn't the phrase anecdotal?

Autocorrect…sorry

 

[deleted1162863]

I looked at them.

There's been a lot of eye-rolling around here. If you have any substantive responses instead that would be more credible.

 

[rokshana]

There's been a lot of eye-rolling around here. If you have any substantive responses instead that would be more credible.

the4n just let the thread die already...we have given you our opinion.

 

[RangerBob]

I was part of a union as a fellow. In theory I benefited a lot as our salaries were all increased by a good amount,.

However I believe they were frozen for a few years while the union thing was getting started... So I'm not really sure that really helped us all that much, since resident salaries are typically increased $1-2k/year anyway.

Residents have far more avenues for lodging complaints than many other workers. I get a lot of people feel residents are vulnerable because our PD could threaten not to renew our contract and we'd be left with a lot of debt, but that's not any different stress-wise than a primary breadwinner of a household at a job they also can't afford to lose because they have mortgage/rent payments and a whole family to support. Far more of our training results in a paper trail than most other workers as well.

If you've never been laid off, you don't really get how it sucks regardless of the situation. (Speaking of which, when I did get laid off, prior to med school, I was part of a union and they were of zero help. "Well, I guess they eliminated your position and you've been here less than 6 months (5.5 months to be exact), so there's not anything we can do..." It was lousy timing --since I was going to start medical school a few months later, no one wanted to hire me for a job I was just going to leave.

I see some benefits to unions. But I see plenty of drawbacks. Seems like a zero sum game to me. Work for someone who respects you. And respect them back.