How can optometrist claim to be physicians?

[Rug Doctor]

In some countries, optometrist get a Bachelors of Optometry and are called "Mr." or "Mrs."

If they want to call their degree "Doctor of Optometry", I can sort of see the logic. Then they want to be called "Dr."

What is with the term "Optometric Physician"? They are not physicians. If they call themselves physicians, why aren't they arrested for impersonating a physician? "Doctor of ...." is not a "physician". Otherwise, why aren't professors called "Sociology Physicians", "Accounting Physicians", "English Physicians", "Statistical Physicians", etc?

Anyone know the history behind optometrists calling themselves physicians? Why do state medical boards allow the optometrist who call themselves optometric physicians run around the law?

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[KHE]

In some countries, optometrist get a Bachelors of Optometry and are called "Mr." or "Mrs."

If they want to call their degree "Doctor of Optometry", I can sort of see the logic. Then they want to be called "Dr."

What is with the term "Optometric Physician"? They are not physicians. If they call themselves physicians, why aren't they arrested for impersonating a physician? "Doctor of ...." is not a "physician". Otherwise, why aren't professors called "Sociology Physicians", "Accounting Physicians", "English Physicians", "Statistical Physicians", etc?

Anyone know the history behind optometrists calling themselves physicians? Why do state medical boards allow the optometrist who call themselves optometric physicians run around the law?

A simple search on SDN will give you the answer, but the readers digest version is that for many years, 3rd party payors would not reimburse non-physician providers. Hence, in some states where this was a major problem, optometrists resorted to calling themselves optometric physicians and 3rd party payors began to reimburse. Even in the states where that terminology is permited, very few ODs actually use it. Walk into any OD office and you will see the words "optometry" and "optometrist" plastered all over their signage, literature, business cards and advertising.

 

[Oculomotor]

Optometrists are not physicians because the term "physician BY ITSELF implies that they are "full scope medical practitioners" ergo MD or DO.
Rather, they ARE Primary Eye Care Physicians-------"limited license practitioners" (dentists, optometrists, podiatrists.)

My white coat at my school has "Student Optometric Physician" embroidered on it and several state organizations go by that moniker. So get over it.

www.oaop.org

www.njsop.org

http://www.oregonoptometry.org/index.asp

http://www.eyeod.org/displayassociationlinks.cfm

It is not just an insurance thing anymore! But KHE is correct in that most OD's use Optometrist or Doctor of Optometry as their title. My home state uses the moniker Therapeutic Optometrist because we can prescribe oral medications (including narcotics) and topical medications for treatment of ocular disease. In optometry "lingo" oral medications = therapeutic Pharmaceutical Agents (TPA's).
Rug Doctor, your line of reasoning is ridiculous and comparing a sociology professor who does not diagnose and treat diseases with medications (optometrists, dentists, podiatrists, and medical doctors do.) I will wear the moniker "optometric physician" when I graduate no matter what clowns like you think!

Have a glorious day my friend.

 

[hello07]

Oh my.......here we go again for the one thousandth time- optometrist are not optometric physicians. They use it primarily for reimbursement as KHE said. Oculomotor, please, get off your high riding horse and come down to earth. You will become an optometrist, provide a valuable service to each patient and help them to the best of your ability within the state scope you choose to practice.
They/ academia are brain washing you man/ women for all that money you are paying at school. They wanna make you feel like a real doctor so hence the term optometric physician. Once you get out in the real world and practice you will understand. Stop thinking too highly of yourself- you'll be an optometrist. I can't believe what they put in your head and you actually buy it. WAKE UP!

 

[Caffeinated]

So what's a guy have to do to get one of those cool logos under their name? I have an advisor logo: <shameless plug> check out my "Other Healthcare to MD/DO" thread in the mentors forum</shameless plug>. But I see some people have the "2+ year member" logo. What gives? I have been around since April 2002.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it had to be done.

 

[Oculomotor]

Listen, MD--wanna be, I think you are thinking of optometry as it was 25 yrs ago..........You really NEED to go back to Medical school so you can feel good about yourself. I DONT....I understand that MD's are nothing but a group of highly educated health care professionals (just like optometrists, Dentists, and Podiatrists) who have pulled the wool over the public's eyes (the last 100 yrs) with a lot of political and financial power convincing them that the MD is only pathway to health care enlightenment. You have BRAINWASHED my friend........Optometrists provide the safest and most efficient care. Here are malpractice statistics from 1990 to 2006:

"Did you know that all medical malpractice carriers are required by Federal law to report malpractice payments for all classes of healthcare providers to the National Practitioner Data Bank (NPDB)? The NPDB has compiled data on malpractice payments since the program began in September 1990. The report is available on the NPDB Web site and contains data on malpractice payments made for all classes of healthcare providers from September 1, 1990 through August 11, 2006, a total of 16 years. This aggregate data is broken down into the number of payments by class of provider and by state. Listed below are the total numbers of malpractice payments made by carriers over the past 16 years for the independent doctoral-level provider groups who are authorized by the state legislatures to prescribe drugs:
Medical Physicians 215,713
Osteopathic Physicians 13,462
Dentists 37,823
Podiatrists 6,196
Optometrists 514

This data, with only 514 reportable malpractice payments made for optometrists in the past 16 years, clearly shows the excellent, safe, and effective track record of the profession of optometry. How organized medicine can even hope to use the malpractice “argument” against legislation proposing to increase optometric prescriptive authority is hard to understand.
Malpractice insurance premiums for optometrists are, and remain, the lowest of any of the independent doctoral-level healthcare professions. These premium rates are lower than those paid by even some non-doctoral supervised allied health professions such as nurse practitioners and physician assistants."

WE ARE OPTOMETRIC PHYSICIANS just because a few malcontents like you patrol these forums hoping to vent your miseries doesn't mean that the majority of OD students believe the trash you spew on here. I plan on advancing optometry and I will get my JD after my OD as I am very involved with the political process. I will stay on my high horse and be proud of what the OD degree represents.

OD = Eye Doctor

enough said
Hello 07 just go back to medical school so you can get over your inferiority complex.......for the love of god!

 

[DiveMD]

Listen, MD--wanna be, I think you are thinking of optometry as it was 25 yrs ago..........You really NEED to go back to Medical school so you can feel good about yourself. I DONT....I understand that MD's are nothing but a group of highly educated health care professionals (just like optometrists, Dentists, and Podiatrists) who have pulled the wool over the public's eyes (the last 100 yrs) with a lot of political and financial power convincing them that the MD is only pathway to health care enlightenment. You have BRAINWASHED my friend........Optometrists provide the safest and most efficient care. Here are malpractice statistics from 1990 to 2006:

"Did you know that all medical malpractice carriers are required by Federal law to report malpractice payments for all classes of healthcare providers to the National Practitioner Data Bank (NPDB)? The NPDB has compiled data on malpractice payments since the program began in September 1990. The report is available on the NPDB Web site and contains data on malpractice payments made for all classes of healthcare providers from September 1, 1990 through August 11, 2006, a total of 16 years. This aggregate data is broken down into the number of payments by class of provider and by state. Listed below are the total numbers of malpractice payments made by carriers over the past 16 years for the independent doctoral-level provider groups who are authorized by the state legislatures to prescribe drugs:
Medical Physicians 215,713
Osteopathic Physicians 13,462
Dentists 37,823
Podiatrists 6,196
Optometrists 514

This data, with only 514 reportable malpractice payments made for optometrists in the past 16 years, clearly shows the excellent, safe, and effective track record of the profession of optometry. How organized medicine can even hope to use the malpractice “argument” against legislation proposing to increase optometric prescriptive authority is hard to understand.
Malpractice insurance premiums for optometrists are, and remain, the lowest of any of the independent doctoral-level healthcare professions. These premium rates are lower than those paid by even some non-doctoral supervised allied health professions such as nurse practitioners and physician assistants."

WE ARE OPTOMETRIC PHYSICIANS just because a few malcontents like you patrol these forums hoping to vent your miseries doesn't mean that the majority of OD students believe the trash you spew on here. I plan on advancing optometry and I will get my JD after my OD as I am very involved with the political process. I will stay on my high horse and be proud of what the OD degree represents.

OD = Eye Doctor

enough said
Hello 07 just go back to medical school so you can get over your inferiority complex.......for the love of god!

Just a question: Let’s assume you are in a public setting when suddenly an older looking male collapses to the ground. A bystander quickly yells: Is anyone a physician?

Will YOU raise you hand?

 

[DiveMD]

:
Medical Physicians 215,713
Osteopathic Physicians 13,462
Dentists 37,823
Podiatrists 6,196
Optometrists 514

Quoting these numbers without taking into account the reality of the legal process is irresponsible and down right ignorant.

Have you considered the following?

- Frivolous lawsuits: people usually sue the guys with money; or at least the ones they think have money.
- Way more doctors than OD’s.
- Invasive procedures have more risks and thus more potential legal ramifications.
- We live in a very litigious society. Again, people sue the guys they think have money.

 

[Oculomotor]

Of course I would------I will have ACLS and CPR training (I was a RED CROSS instructor in the past) and yes I would raise my hand and help because it is the right thing to do. I would help the man or woman and call 911. I think anybody who is in health care----> an optometrist, dentist, medical doctor, nurse, anesthesiology assistant, etc....with the right conscience would help........So what is the point of your question?

Optometrists, Dentists, Podiatrists are all DOCTORS and practice medicine in their respective branches. And they all have lower malpractice rates and better safety records than MD's do (I will provide verifiable data if you would like). All the bellyaching in the world doesn't change the fact that non-MD providers have a consistently good track record. Nurse Practitioners---( non-doctorate mid-level providers are independent in 13 states and have a patient satisfaction and safety record equal to the primary care MD's!) How do you explain that DiveMD? CRNA's will eventually be independent completely-----just wait. My ex-girlfriend got her birth control pills and medical care from an independent nurse practitioner! The Golden Age of the MD is over and supply and demand will dictate the future development of health care. Patient access to affordable and efficient health care will outweigh the notion that MD's have about their own infallability. I support non-MD (and yes unfortunately non-DO) professions 100% in their battle against a corrupt allopathic health care system.

have a good nite

 

[DiveMD]

Of course I would------I will have ACLS and CPR training (I was a RED CROSS instructor in the past) and yes I would raise my hand and help because it is the right thing to do. I would help the man or woman and call 911. I think anybody who is in health care----> an optometrist, dentist, medical doctor, nurse, anesthesiology assistant, etc....with the right conscience would help........So what is the point of your question?

Optometrists, Dentists, Podiatrists are all DOCTORS and practice medicine in their respective branches. And they all have lower malpractice rates and better safety records than MD's do (I will provide verifiable data if you would like). All the bellyaching in the world doesn't change the fact that non-MD providers have a consistently good track record. Nurse Practitioners---( non-doctorate mid-level providers are independent in 13 states and have a patient satisfaction and safety record equal to the primary care MD's!) How do you explain that DiveMD? CRNA's will eventually be independent completely-----just wait. My ex-girlfriend got her birth control pills and medical care from an independent nurse practitioner! The Golden Age of the MD is over and supply and demand will dictate the future development of health care.

So...you will raise your hand and say: Yes! I am a physician&#8230;an optometric physician! I am totally qualified!!! Maybe you should consider moonlighting @ your local ER running mega codes since you are ACLS trained.


Good luck with all the lawyers!

 

[hello07]

Oculomotor,
I can't argue anymore with you. we have been thru this over and over in other posts few months ago. "for the love of god." By the way, God should be capitalized.
anyhow, look up the word "SUPERIORITY COMPLEX" It might best describe you. Let me give you a point or two. When you say you are an optometric physician, or wear a tag saying optometric physician you sound and look ridiculous. It is a cry for help. The MD's look at this and laugh. Maybe not in front of your face but they laugh. Just as we laugh or at least I do, when I hear the term chiropractic physician. It's all BOGUS.
Good Luck with your white coat ceremony like most OD schools have started.
Again, another bogus ceremony so you can feel good about yourself. This actually started at Columbia College of P&S back in 1993. short history for you.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Just a question: Let's assume you are in a public setting when suddenly an older looking male collapses to the ground. A bystander quickly yells: Is anyone a physician?

Will YOU raise you hand?

IMHO, I think that people in distress don't call out for "physicians." I would believe that they may ask for a doctor, certainly of which, an optometrist is.

Unfortunately, I cannot weigh in on the topic of this incendiary thread. I always fear that "Physician Riots" will break out all over the country when I see these pop up.

 

[qwopty99]

An optometrist is an optometrist. Why would an optometrist be embarassed about calling himself what he is?

The term "optometric physician" is some lame attempt to physicianize the term optometrist to make it sound more like a "doctor". It appears the inferiority complex Oculomotor refers to is the one he holds himself, because the term "optometrist" doesn't make him feel enough like a doctor, but "optometric physician" does, and so he uses it

If there are billing reasons for which "OP" must be used, then so be it. That said, I'm an optometrist. The term "physician" is vernacularly used to identify an MD among members of the public. Perhaps some small minority of ODs will refer to each other as "Optometric physicians" in their personal circles, but that doesn't mean the term has received broader acceptance. Esoteric legislation known to a small group of practitioners with a vested interest in its outcome does not change that.

 

[qwopty99]

I will get my JD

You will not make a good lawyer.

Anyone who is obviously partisan and bias towards their own interests loses credibility to all observers. It is evident you possess the personality that if you were on the MD side of things, you would be equally vehemently against optometry. No one could ever go to you to acquire an impartial view of any matter.

Don't waste a law's school's time on you. Get your OD and go refract.

 

[rubensan]

Optometrists are optometric physicians for the reasons that KHE described. End of story. Oculomotor, you have made your point. Be proud of your OD degree. But I caution you against coming onto an allopathic forum and calling us "corrupt." Do you really want to start a flame war here?

Oculomotor,
I can't argue anymore with you. we have been thru this over and over in other posts few months ago. "for the love of god." By the way, God should be capitalized.
anyhow, look up the word "SUPERIORITY COMPLEX" It might best describe you. Let me give you a point or two. When you say you are an optometric physician, or wear a tag saying optometric physician you sound and look ridiculous. It is a cry for help. The MD's look at this and laugh. Maybe not in front of your face but they laugh. Just as we laugh or at least I do, when I hear the term chiropractic physician. It's all BOGUS.
Good Luck with your white coat ceremony like most OD schools have started.
Again, another bogus ceremony so you can feel good about yourself. This actually started at Columbia College of P&S back in 1993. short history for you.

 

[qwopty99]

But I see some people have the "2+ year member" logo. What gives? I have been around since April 2002.

Hi Coffee

I think there's some language somewhere that says you need,
1. at least 2 years on SDN, and
2. to average 100 posts/year.

That might be it.

 

[qwopty99]

Optometrists are optometric physicians for the reasons that KHE described. End of story. Oculomotor, you have made your point. Be proud of your OD degree. But I caution you against coming onto an allopathic forum and calling us "corrupt." Do you really want to start a flame war here?

I obviously get annoyed when I see maverick MDs running around belittling anyone/anything that is optometry.

But I get equally/more annoyed when I see dumb@ss OD students running around embarassing us, and showing to the world why MDs are sometimes right in saying non-MD providers are idiots and shouldn't be trusted with anything.

Harsh but true.

 

[Caffeinated]

Hi Coffee

I think there's some language somewhere that says you need,
1. at least 2 years on SDN, and
2. to average 100 posts/year.

That might be it.

I guess I better get busy.

Barista, you'd better make it a triple.

 

[7ontheline]

Well said, qwopty. There's a lot of dumb students out there (OD and MD) who have a highly inflated opinion of themselves.

 

[Oculomotor]

qwopty99 what side are you on? You should join the AMA lobby and sell your soul! I hear that satan has an MD next to his name! lol JUST KIDDING------JUST KIDDING----no need for flaming.

TUSP0diatricM thanks for your reasonable comment. I feel that DPM's are Podiatric Physicians and Surgeons and should be addressed accordingly. I have talked to MD's that don't think Pod's are real doctors and those MD's are *****S. And you are absolutely correct about the use of the "physician" term. I worked in eye care for a couple of years being exposed to various settings within ophthalmology and optometry and I never "once" heard a patient regard an OD as anything but my "eye doctor" or my optometrist. Even when they were referring to an ophtho they regarded them as my "eye surgeon" or my ophthalmologist. The term physician NEVER came up EVER! For me I am in a school that uses the terminology, optometric physician, and I am proud of it regardless of what (optometry discontent--hello O7) says or some MD's that have their heads up their rears say. I think it is absurd when I see "Eye Physician and Surgeon"! Most patients run out of breath by the time they read that! lol My friend who is an cataract surgeon thinks that is a ridiculous term used by insecure ophthalmologists.

And qwopty99 who ever said being a lawyer is about being "impartial"? What planet did you come from? Being a lawyer is about winning your case----> whatever the cost....Come on, qwopty99, everybody knows that. I plan on practicing for several years to learn everything about eye care and then get my JD and use it to help optometry anyway that I can.


Have a nice day

 

[Mye Eye]

Listen, MD--wanna be, I think you are thinking of optometry as it was 25 yrs ago..........You really NEED to go back to Medical school so you can feel good about yourself. I DONT....I understand that MD's are nothing but a group of highly educated health care professionals (just like optometrists, Dentists, and Podiatrists) who have pulled the wool over the public's eyes (the last 100 yrs) with a lot of political and financial power convincing them that the MD is only pathway to health care enlightenment. You have BRAINWASHED my friend........

Oculomotor...how DARE you speak to a future colleague like this...ESPECIALLY as a student...neither Ophthalmology or Optometry will enjoy having someone so self-centered in their field...didnt you ever learn to respect people with more experience than you...right now he is a practicing Optometrist...which means he no doubt has more knowledge and clinical insight THAN YOU!!! get off your high horse

when I enter the field of Ophthalmology I fully expect to work with ODs in my practice...in a very amicable and reciprocal relationship...if I EVER met someone like you, I would immediately end all contact...you will very quickly alienate yourself from both ODs and OMDs with this type of behavior

grow up kid...yes I'm a med student as well (well for 3 more weeks)...but you are certainly acting like a whiney brat

 

[Mye Eye]

qwopty99 what side are you on? You should join the AMA lobby and sell your soul! I hear that satan has an MD next to his name! lol JUST KIDDING------JUST KIDDING----no need for flaming.

TUSP0diatricM thanks for your reasonable comment. I feel that DPM's are Podiatric Physicians and Surgeons and should be addressed accordingly. I have talked to MD's that don't think Pod's are real doctors and those MD's are *****S. And you are absolutely correct about the use of the "physician" term. I worked in eye care for a couple of years being exposed to various settings within ophthalmology and optometry and I never "once" heard a patient regard an OD as anything but my "eye doctor" or my optometrist. Even when they were referring to an ophtho they regarded them as my "eye surgeon" or my ophthalmologist. The term physician NEVER came up EVER! For me I am in a school that uses the terminology, optometric physician, and I am proud of it regardless of what (optometry discontent--hello O7) says or some MD's that have their heads up their rears say. I think it is absurd when I see "Eye Physician and Surgeon"! Most patients run out of breath by the time they read that! lol My friend who is an cataract surgeon thinks that is a ridiculous term used by insecure ophthalmologists.

And qwopty99 who ever said being a lawyer is about being "impartial"? What planet did you come from? Being a lawyer is about winning your case----> whatever the cost....Come on, qwopty99, everybody knows that. I plan on practicing for several years to learn everything about eye care and then get my JD and use it to help optometry anyway that I can.


Have a nice day

let me guess...you're the kid that never learned to shut his mouth and always had to say the last word...even when you're wrong (not saying you're wrong or right...just assessing your ridiculous brashness and rudness)

 

[BruinEye]

let me guess...you're the kid that never learned to shut his mouth and always had to say the last word...even when you're wrong (not saying you're wrong or right...just assessing your ridiculous brashness and rudness)

hahaha, sounds about right to me!

 

[MaseratiGT]

You will not make a good lawyer.

Anyone who is obviously partisan and bias towards their own interests loses credibility to all observers. It is evident you possess the personality that if you were on the MD side of things, you would be equally vehemently against optometry. No one could ever go to you to acquire an impartial view of any matter.

Don't waste a law's school's time on you. Get your OD and go refract.

Lawyers are always partisan. If a lawyer is not defending a cause s/he feels worthy, they are working for a living for themselves. Both seem partial to me. The closest to neutral you get in the justice system are, theoretically, the judges. However, human nature always moves us away from the middle ground. I would be hard pressed to say that there is a judge out there who has NEVER given any weight, despite the amount, to their own prejudices during a ruling.

Anyway, I think that we need more medical professionals with JD degrees to look out for our interests.

 

[Oculomotor]

Mye Eye, BruinEye,

To the contrary, I know a lot of cool ophthalmologists back home (whom I already have a future referral base set up with in a advance.) My entire family is MD's and one DO (5 MD's, and one DO). You are making a inaccurate assumption about what I believe. I have NO problem with an individual practitioner (a.k.a ----the individual ophthalmologists) they are just like optometrists--there are good ones and bad ones rather I am speaking of organized ophthalmology whether it be at the state or national level. I sat in on my state organization's testimony regarding the passage of legislation that would bring the state's optometric scope of practice on par with most other states as our scope was outdated by today's optometric standards. We added narcotics and oral steroids as well as eliminated the drug formulary to allow free reign to prescribe any anti-infective, any anti-glaucoma, any anti-allergy, any non-steroidal analgesics, etc.......as long as it was used for ophthalmic care. Basically an update to make us on par with 43 other states. The bill passed overwhelmingly regardless of the tremendous opposition from the state ophthalmology/medical associations. The counter-testimony given by ophthalmology was disgusting and in very poor taste. It was just derogatory and disrespectful. The state legislatures did not buy it and after doing research on the doctor of optometry degree (visiting school sites and practices) they overwhelmingly agreed that OD's are well trained for medical management of primary eye disease and according to statistical analysis have a very safe and efficacious track record. I have observed organized ophthalmology's derision towards optometry in 3 different states actually and listened to unprofessional garbage spewed by them to denegrate OD's. What you are calling "my brashness and rudeness" is my determination and will. Being in a medical family I have observed a lot of medical hubris and lack of accountabilty of a great number of MD's (NOT ALL OF THEM OR EVEN THE MAJORITY). But enough to give me a bad taste and make me laugh my a s s off when I hear ridiculous attacks by ophthalmology and medicine towards OD's. I have a lot of respect for optometry friendly ophthalmologists and will send them many patients and recommend them highly. I suggest you recant your "imaturity" nonsense as I am in my 30's and have seen a lot. Andrew Jackson was brash, Teddy Roosevelt was harsh, and if I need to get my point across I can be as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless the USA!!!!!

peace out

 

[Oculomotor]

Good OD's and MD's rock!

 

[Mye Eye]

Mye Eye, BruinEye,

To the contrary, I know a lot of cool ophthalmologists back home (whom I already have a future referral base set up with in a advance.) My entire family is MD's and one DO (5 MD's, and one DO). You are making a inaccurate assumption about what I believe. I have NO problem with an individual practitioner (a.k.a ----the individual ophthalmologists) they are just like optometrists--there are good ones and bad ones rather I am speaking of organized ophthalmology whether it be at the state or national level. I sat in on my state organization's testimony regarding the passage of legislation that would bring the state's optometric scope of practice on par with most other states as our scope was outdated by today's optometric standards. We added narcotics and oral steroids as well as eliminated the drug formulary to allow free reign to prescribe any anti-infective, any anti-glaucoma, any anti-allergy, any non-steroidal analgesics, etc.......as long as it was used for ophthalmic care. Basically an update to make us on par with 43 other states. The bill passed overwhelmingly regardless of the tremendous opposition from the state ophthalmology/medical associations. The counter-testimony given by ophthalmology was disgusting and in very poor taste. It was just derogatory and disrespectful. The state legislatures did not buy it and after doing research on the doctor of optometry degree (visiting school sites and practices) they overwhelmingly agreed that OD's are well trained for medical management of primary eye disease and according to statistical analysis have a very safe and efficacious track record. I have observed organized ophthalmology's derision towards optometry in 3 different states actually and listened to unprofessional garbage spewed by them to denegrate OD's. What you are calling "my brashness and rudeness" is my determination and will. Being in a medical family I have observed a lot of medical hubris and lack of accountabilty of a great number of MD's (NOT ALL OF THEM OR EVEN THE MAJORITY). But enough to give me a bad taste and make me laugh my a s s off when I hear ridiculous attacks by ophthalmology and medicine towards OD's. I have a lot of respect for optometry friendly ophthalmologists and will send them many patients and recommend them highly. I suggest you recant your "imaturity" nonsense as I am in my 30's and have seen a lot. Andrew Jackson was brash, Teddy Roosevelt was harsh, and if I need to get my point across I can be as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless the USA!!!!!

peace out

do you even read what people are talking about before being rude to others? I mean, you didnt really respond to the point of what I was saying...all my point was saying is that you were rude and condescending to an attending optometrist...and you're only in school...so shut up and learn some damn respect...truthfully, I highly doubt most people here care to hear what a self-righteous student has to say to make himself feel better than others...you have a lot to learn before you alienate yourself in the long-run...and you'd think you were more civil and appropriate given the fact you're 30 and should have learned common courtesies by this point in your life

 

[qwopty99]

Lawyers are always partisan.

There's a difference between taking a side and being partisan.

Fine. No one in the world is perfectly unbiased. No one is arguing that.

Part of being a lawyer is anticipating the argument of the defense. In order to do that, you have to see things from their side.

Otherwise you just get sycophants preaching at the top of their lungs why they are right and everyone else is wrong. That's when all third parties tune out and go, NEXT!

 

[MaseratiGT]

There's a difference between taking a side and being partisan.

Fine. No one in the world is perfectly unbiased. No one is arguing that.

Part of being a lawyer is anticipating the argument of the defense. In order to do that, you have to see things from their side.

Otherwise you just get sycophants preaching at the top of their lungs why they are right and everyone else is wrong. That's when all third parties tune out and go, NEXT!

qwopty,

The only reason I don't start a war with you on SDN is because you have a Harry Potter avatar. And you used the word "sycophants."

I can see your point, qwopty. I can see it from all sides today.

It's an inflammatory topic. That's why I don't weigh in on these anymore. However, the comments that everyone leaves makes for entertaining reading.

 

[qwopty99]

I looked at your avatar and was wondering if it was the same Ravenclaw. Interesting... It's a nice avatar.

I just watch the movies, so don't ask me anything about HP (haha).

I find it curious that you've weighed in on this thread since you're a Pod student. Why the interest?

 

[MaseratiGT]

I looked at your avatar and was wondering if it was the same Ravenclaw. Interesting... It's a nice avatar.

I just watch the movies, so don't ask me anything about HP (haha).

I find it curious that you've weighed in on this thread since you're a Pod student. Why the interest?

I was looking for some good reading between my chapters of "Harry Potter and The Half-Blood Prince."

As I scroll down SDN forums, I am automatically drawn to those in which the responses will make me laugh. Every now and then I put in my two cents. Mainly, I read and laugh.

You should really read the books. A lot more information, especially "...Prisoner of Azkaban." I just started on the movies. I'm buying "...Goblet of Fire" this week.

 

[qwopty99]

IMHO, I think that people in distress don't call out for "physicians." I would believe that they may ask for a doctor, certainly of which, an optometrist is.

(meekly in a soft voice) FWIW, I think the proverbial emergency situation when someone asks, "Is there a doctor here?", has an implied meaning of whether a physician is present.

That isn't to say a dentist or optometrist (or whatever) couldn't be helpful, but I think the public equates the term doctor with physician with MD.

 

[qwopty99]

I was looking for some good reading between my chapters of "Harry Potter and The Half-Blood Prince."

As I scroll down SDN forums, I am automatically drawn to those in which the responses will make me laugh. Every now and then I put in my two cents. Mainly, I read and laugh.

You should really read the books. A lot more information, especially "...Prisoner of Azkaban." I just started on the movies. I'm buying "...Goblet of Fire" this week.

LOL. I just chose the avatar from an avatar website. I thought the photo looked pretty cool. He looks intellectual and stuff and I thought that was just the right "balancing" presence I needed for forums like this where I'm not adverse to taking the gloves off and throwing a few punches (haha).

I'm sure the Harry Potter series is a good read.

 

[hello07]

Oculomotor,
I don't take your condescending remarks personally. You have the right to express yourself. However, you know crap at the moment. Exactly what a few medical students said to you earlier. I will give you a piece of advice. When you get to your clinical years 3rd and especially 4th year rotations watch your mouth and your derogotary speech especially with your preceptors. The doctors in charge of your rotations will not take your big arrogant mouth especially your stupid comments. Realize, no matter how good you might be clinically-in all aspects of optometry- when you show no respect to your superiors and those in charge; they will F@ you and find a way to justify it and you will be in the 5 or 6 year OD program.

Don't believe me- try acting like a ******* with them as you are with a few of us and you'll be getting your OD degree in maybe 5 years.
Trust me. learn some respect. or else YOU WILL NOT WIN WITH THEM!

 

[stevemc1]

Oculomotor,
I don't take your condescending remarks personally. You have the right to express yourself. However, you know crap at the moment. Exactly what a few medical students said to you earlier. I will give you a piece of advice. When you get to your clinical years 3rd and especially 4th year rotations watch your mouth and your derogotary speech especially with your preceptors. The doctors in charge of your rotations will not take your big arrogant mouth especially your stupid comments. Realize, no matter how good you might be clinically-in all aspects of optometry- when you show no respect to your superiors and those in charge; they will F@ you and find a way to justify it and you will be in the 5 or 6 year OD program.

Don't believe me- try acting like a ******* with them as you are with a few of us and you'll be getting your OD degree in maybe 5 years.
Trust me. learn some respect. or else YOU WILL NOT WIN WITH THEM!

Sheesh...sounds like boot camp all over again.

Does anyone find it remotely funny that some young ophthalmologists gets so worked up about us? Damn folks, you have nothing to fear from Optometry. Absolutely nothing. You'll be printing money in no time, but if you can't get over this irrational fear, distrust, disdain...whatever, may I suggest perhaps a career in Dermatology?

Spend your time learning to be this best surgeon you can be, we'll all send you boat loads of patients, you'll send them back for primary care, and everyone's happy. Believe me, you don't want to filter through the benign cases for surgical procedures. You might not know it now, but you will real soon. You've got better things to do.

Curious. Who gets you guys so worked up about this? Does it start in med school? After? I picture some nasty Hitler like character standing up in front of the classroom yelling and spitting and slamming their hand down spewing doom and gloom because *gasp* "Optometrists can prescribe TOBRADEX!"

Am I even warm?

 

[Oculomotor]

I treat all my professors and attendings with the utmost respect--PERIOD...Even when I know one of them has made a mistake I just say nothing! I smile and do what I am told because these docs that are my professors and attendings are the ones that are going to guide me and educate me on how to become a doctor. I am eternally grateful to them and have a great relationship with most of them. (Believe it or not I am very popular and most people REALLY like me! ) I was in sales and have a lot of talent in REAL WORLD communications. I don't take this site very seriously as it gives me a place to vent and get into some interesting and fun intellectual conflicts!

• This forum is recreational for me and just allows me to have fun and maybe exchange some information once in a while.

You have a right to your opinions and so do I. If I offended you in any way I apologize I am just having fun (but expressing some of my beliefs at the same time) ! ha ha

 

[hello07]

Fair enough Oculomotor.

Peace!

 

[MaseratiGT]

(meekly in a soft voice) FWIW, I think the proverbial emergency situation when someone asks, "Is there a doctor here?", has an implied meaning of whether a physician is present.

That isn't to say a dentist or optometrist (or whatever) couldn't be helpful, but I think the public equates the term doctor with physician with MD.

I agree with you.

 

[MaseratiGT]

KHE -

How the devil did you get so many darn badges under your name? I want 1!!!

 

[Caffeinated]

I pictures some nasty Hitler like character standing up in front of the classroom yelling and spitting and slamming their hand down spewing doom and gloom because *gasp* "Optometrists can prescribe TOBRADEX!"

Am I even warm?

No, you are not even close. As I have mentioned in previous posts, ophthalmologists tend to have a reputation for being easy-going and mild-mannered compared to other physicians.

I don't have the statistics right in front of me, but I can confidently estimate that greater than 99% of ophthalmologists have never attempted genocide, and greater than 99.9% have never and will never be responsible for the death of 6 million Jews. For what its worth, I am deeply saddened and offended by your comparison, and I think most of my ophthalmology colleagues would join me in this sentiment. I would also like to believe that most of my optometry colleagues would also be outraged by this comparison. To compare your adversaries in this MD v. OD discussion to a war-mongering genocidal madman is to trivialize the suffering that Hitler inflicted upon the entire world.

Now excuse me while I go vomit. Hopefully by the time I return, civility and rational discussion will have reconquered this forum.

 

[Caffeinated]

I treat all my professors and attendings with the utmost respect--PERIOD...Even when I know one of them has made a mistake I just say nothing! I smile and do what I am told because these docs that are my professors and attendings are the ones that are going to guide me and educate me on how to become a doctor. I am eternally grateful to them and have a great relationship with most of them. (Believe it or not I am very popular and most people REALLY like me! ) I was in sales and have a lot of talent in REAL WORLD communications. I don't take this site very seriously as it gives me a place to vent and get into some interesting and fun intellectual conflicts!

• This forum is recreational for me and just allows me to have fun and maybe exchange some information once in a while.

You have a right to your opinions and so do I. If I offended you in any way I apologize I am just having fun (but expressing some of my beliefs at the same time) ! ha ha

Just be careful -- you are not as anonymous on SDN as you might think. On several occasions in the last few years, I have met people who were quick to realize my SDN identity after meeting me in person. Granted, my situation is a little unique (the Army isn't exactly swarming with ODs who turned MD, so I am not THAT tough to identify). As you know, first impressions are pretty powerful, and you have already made a few.

 

[AwesomeSauce]

No, you are not even close. As I have mentioned in previous posts, ophthalmologists tend to have a reputation for being easy-going and mild-mannered compared to other physicians.

I don't have the statistics right in front of me, but I can confidently estimate that greater than 99% of ophthalmologists have never attempted genocide, and greater than 99.9% have never and will never be responsible for the death of 6 million Jews. For what its worth, I am deeply saddened and offended by your comparison, and I think most of my ophthalmology colleagues would join me in this sentiment. I would also like to believe that most of my optometry colleagues would also be outraged by this comparison. To compare your adversaries in this MD v. OD discussion to a war-mongering genocidal madman is to trivialize the suffering that Hitler inflicted upon the entire world.

Now excuse me while I go vomit. Hopefully by the time I return, civility and rational discussion will have reconquered this forum.

I'm pretty sure this guy was not in any way trying to argue that ophthalmoloists are Nazis, I suggest you calm down.

 

[Rug Doctor]

I didn't know this thread would become so heated.

As I said before, the use of "doctor" for doctorate level degrees besides medicine has been done for a long time. So diplomat and professor Henry Kissinger can call himself Dr. Henry Kissinger. PhD, dentist, and others can say "I'm Dr. Smith" or "Dr. --".

Use of the term "--- physician" as in "optometric physician" seems deceptive. If they wanted to call themselves "optometric provider for insurance" or "optometric provider" for insurance purposes, that's ok with me. Doctors (physicians, MD/DO) call themselves "provider". I heard my doctor's office say that when they called the insurance company and the computer asked them some question to which the office answered "provider".

I think the answer boils down to either insurance reasons (as stated) and/or trying to inflate one's credentials and impersonating a physician. This is sad because optometrist should really work at emphasizing their real strengths, which is contact lenses. The contact lens part of ophthalmology residencies are sometimes taught by optometrists.

 

[Caffeinated]

I'm pretty sure this guy was not in any way trying to argue that ophthalmoloists are Nazis, I suggest you calm down.

I agree that he was not directly suggesting that ophthalmologists are Nazis. However, there was a peripheral association between Hitler and those that disagree with his perspective. In his own words he "pictures some nasty Hitler like character" (cut and pasted directly from his post) indoctrinating med students and/or ophthalmology residents by "yelling and spitting and slamming their hand down spewing doom and gloom." This is pretty powerful imagery that is meant to polarize the issue and demonize those that disagree with him. That bothers me a little bit, but I'm an adult and I can deal with that. What bothers me even more is that someone would trivialize the horror that Hitler inflicted upon the Jewish people, Europe, and Western civilization by using this imagery as a cheap-shot against those who disagree with him. This should be beneath anyone (MD, DO, OD, DPM, DVM, etc) who is worthy to be called "doctor."

 

[Mirror Form]

Oculomotor,
I can't argue anymore with you. we have been thru this over and over in other posts few months ago. "for the love of god." By the way, God should be capitalized.
anyhow, look up the word "SUPERIORITY COMPLEX"

Actually, he should probably look up the words "inferiority complex." I can only assume that's where his idiocy stems from.

Quoting different malpractice rates b/w different types of providers as evidence of one provider being better than the other is just flat out stupid.

 

[AwesomeSauce]

I'm not trying to trivalize Hitler and his actions, but I'm pretty sure he was just trying to colorfully describe an "angry guy lecturing an audiance" and you are taking it way way out of contex.

 

[Mirror Form]

My entire family is MD's and one DO (5 MD's, and one DO).

And now we know why you have an inferiority complex.

 

[Oculomotor]

LOL!

You are the LAST person that should be accusing me of having an "inferiority complex". Listen, "little man" feel free to send me a private message if you want to have a real real conversation about this topic. I have read a lot of your narrow minded comments filled with your own self-gratifying hubris! You are the one who insecure about optometry's "evil desire" to create a parallel profession and that scares you. You just wont admit it---everyone on here knows it! Optometry has nooo desire to become ophthalmology----Optometry is an awsome profession. It seems as if you were the little insecure nerd that was beat up everyday on the playground by a kid whos dad was an optometrist! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awwwwwwww..... do you need a hug BrokenMirrorForm?
Please leave my wonderful "doctor" family out of your attacks please---my mother who is an internist said point blank, "If optometry existed in the form it is now back in the 70's I would have done it instead of the headaches I have to deal with on a regular basis." My whole family is excited that we are going to have an eye doctor among us when I am done. Again your comment, BrokenMirrorForm is a prime example of idiocy so please stop insulting my family. or I will complain to the administrator here.

PS: If you want to have a debate about this privately I challenge you to private message me....... And by the way I got a 33 on my MCAT (without studying much) and I still chose optometry!!!!!

Have a nice day.

 

[futuredoctorOD]

I think oculomotor has a good point........You seem to make the most biased idiotic comments on here over the last couple of years.


Were you beat up by a son of an optometrist growing up?

 

[futuredoctorOD]

Rug Doctor's quotes

"I didn't know this thread would become so heated."

YES YOU DID


"optometrist should really work at emphasizing their real strengths, which is contact lenses. The contact lens part of ophthalmology residencies are sometimes taught by optometrists. "

OH HOW WONDERFUL OF YOU!

Actually our real strength is being what we are ----> Primary Eye Doctors who:

---Detect and diagnose eye diseases such as glaucoma, cataracts, retinal disorders, lid disorders, and infections such as conjunctivitis.

---Prescribe medication to treat eye diseases.

---Evaluate and treat vision conditions such as nearsightedness, farsightedness, astigmatism and presbyopia.

---Perform minor surgical procedures such as removing foreign objects from the eye.

---Provide pre- and post-operative care, especially for glaucoma, laser, refractive, and cataract patients.

---In some instances, perform laser, refractive or glaucoma surgeries.

from the AOA


Optometrists are real doctors, they are Eye Doctors

Have fun starting another flame war