Housing

[rexosaurus]

So, this may be jumping the gun, but I have a housing question. For those of you that moved out of state to Vet School, did you choose to move into an apartment, condo, house, ? For me, I will be moving (whenever it may be) with an SO, dog, and cat. Our lifestyle is conducive to a backyard so the dog can come as go as she pleases, and the kitty is indoor/outdoor. Anybody have advice? Is this dependent on the city I move to? I really want a house, but on a vet student's income (i.e. student loans), i'm not really sure what is feasable. I just want to start thinking about this if, in fact, I do move in a few months!

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[dyachei]

Though technically instate, I moved from GA to TN into a condo. My preference, however, is for a house. Depending on where you end up going, it can be pretty profitable, in the long run, but also in the short run. I was talking to a 2nd or 3rd year during my interview last year, and they said that if you buy a 3 or 4 bedroom house and rent out 2 of the rooms, you more than pay the mortgage and utilities. It's what I'm planning on doing next year. Hope that helped you in some way.

 

[rexosaurus]

this sounds like a good idea, and maybe i'm a unlucky, but i have not had the best roommates in the world. also, with an SO not going to vet school, or even in school for that matter (he is well out), i think it may be a wierd situation for him. i think we'd rather (ideally!) have a house with a backyard that is animal friendly. but i'm not sure if that is affordable?

 

[pressmom]

It depends on where you move. Here in the south, housing is generally not that expensive. I have an apartment right now (no roommates, as I have had bad experiences too). What I would like to do next year is move into a condo where I could fence the yard. There are condos (one story two and three bedroom places--almost like garden homes) and townhouses (more than one story with two are three bedrooms) where you can fence the yard. (More or less you own the land, not just the building. You'll have to check on the rules with the owners association before you buy to see if they allow fences or if you own the land.) There is also, generally, less yard to take care of, which is a big plus because you will have NO time. (Although your SO might.) Around here, the condos I was looking at ran from $85,000-$115,000. It would probably behoove you to have some money for a down payment, although these days it is not completely necessary. Also, you may or may not be able to break even selling it 3-4 years later.

The other tip I would have is make sure you know the town before you decide which area to move into. Look around at what you want near you. Do you want to be in the city or county? (Think about police, fire, water, roads, etc.) How close do you want to be to grocery stores, malls, school, etc.? Also, if you're moving into a newer development, look at older developments by the same builder to see if they've held up well.

Just some ideas...

 

[Electrophile]

Around here, the condos I was looking at ran from $85,000-$115,000. It would probably behoove you to have some money for a down payment, although these days it is not completely necessary. Also, you may or may not be able to break even selling it 3-4 years later.

I whole heartedly think that if you can scrap together 2-3K for minimal closing costs plus a minimal down payment, buying a house (or condo...though these may be harder to sell) is waaaaay better than renting. I'm 25 and we just bought our first house in July (a nice 117K 3/2 with a nearly 1/2 acre backyard) and it's AWESOME. No more dealing with bitchy landlords who unfairly take our deposit just because we have dogs and we can, for the most part, do what we please. Besides, even if you just break even 3-4 years later...that's still better than throwing away 5K a year by lining a landlord's pocket. Plus, with the equity you'll make in paying your mortgage, you can maybe afford an even nicer house to start out with once you graduate for a down payment. However, I'd recommend having at least a thousand dollars or so in an emergency fund and no credit card debit if at all possible before any of this. It's a hassle, but the freedom is totally worth it, especially if you have pets.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Hmm, that's never made sense to me

Why buy a house when you'll only be there for 4 years I am sure mortgage payments are at least as high, if not much higher, than rent.

 

[david594]

Hmm, that's never made sense to me

Why buy a house when you'll only be there for 4 years I am sure mortgage payments are at least as high, if not much higher, than rent.

Where I did my undergrad you could buy a house for 80-110 grand for a 3 bedroom place near campus. The same place would cost you $1200-1400 per month to rent.

I had one friend in college who(with the help of his parents) bought a house for himself and to rent to his friends. So himself and 3 of his friends lived there sophmore through senior year. They then resold it and it worked out fairly well for them. Students had the benefit of a good landlord and the parents who fronted the money turned a profit versus the 18k they would have spent on their sons housing otherwise.

What I have to wonder is what bank would give a loan to an unemployed student who they know wont have a job for the next 4 years and will be living off other loans that entire time. Assuming you have someone with good credit to cosign I could see it working though.

 

[Electrophile]

Hmm, that's never made sense to me

Why buy a house when you'll only be there for 4 years I am sure mortgage payments are at least as high, if not much higher, than rent.

Your student loans go towards paying living expenses, yes? This includes rent and/or a mortgage. When looking to buy a house, general consensus of the homebuyers books I read before we took the plunge said to be in the house at least 2-3 years to recoup the costs of closing and moving and the selling again. With mortgage, you are paying yourself as an investment in terms of equity. With renting, the money just pays your landlord. You'd be paying rent anyways. Might as well pay it towards yourself.

 

[HeartSong]

Wow, I guess it does depend on where you live. I currently am renting a 3 bedroom house with a large fenced backyard, I have 3 dogs and a roommate, for $600 a month. Before that we were in a 2 bedroom duplex with a smaller fenced yard at $425/ month. Both places are within walking distance of main campus and biking distance of the vet school.

 

[chris03333]

Your student loans go towards paying living expenses, yes? This includes rent and/or a mortgage. When looking to buy a house, general consensus of the homebuyers books I read before we took the plunge said to be in the house at least 2-3 years to recoup the costs of closing and moving and the selling again. With mortgage, you are paying yourself as an investment in terms of equity. With renting, the money just pays your landlord. You'd be paying rent anyways. Might as well pay it towards yourself.

Problem is, in many places you will not be able to sale quick enough to move.

Hopefully Columbia's market changes for you but last year, there were quite a bit of people trying unsucessfully to sell.

 

[Mylez]

I got looking for an apartment very late in the game, and added an animal that I wasn't expecting and still found a great place for me. I have never liked apartment complexes, so I purposely sought out a duplex like setting.

I was lucky enough to find a place where I live in the lower front half of the house and my landlords (one of whom is a 4th year vet student) live in the other part of the house. It has been a good arrangement for me. You should be fine, depending on where you are. Just be persistent and refuse to settle.

I pay $500/mo and I have a very nice, large one bedroom apartment with my two cats, one dog, and two sugar gliders. We are quite content here!

 

[VAgirl]

Yea, the housing market has taken a nosedive. Be very careful before you jump into buying (I have owned my own place for the last 3.5 years, so I know). Plus, when you own the place, when anything goes wrong it's on you to fix it. Toilet busts a leak at 6 in the morning? Your problem, no one else's. You foot the bill, of course. And guess who is waiting for the plumber to arrive between 8am and 12pm? That's right...you.

I love my place and am glad I bought it, but if I get into vet school this year, in addition to figuring out how to move me, my 2 cats, my boyfriend, and all our stuff, we have to figure out about selling the house on a timeline. I imagine it's the same for when you graduate vet school and are trying to move somewhere to take a job. Just things to think about. It's not nearly as simple as it was even as recently as 2-3 years ago. And lots of people are still forecasting that the housing market hasn't hit rock-bottom yet.

 

[rexosaurus]

ew, it all just sounds like nothing to look forward to!

 

[RockStarKDub]

ew, it all just sounds like nothing to look forward to!

Agreed

 

[bakaduin]

The fact that the housing market has taken a nosedive means its the PERFECT time to buy a house. As long as your not looking to flip it and buy and sell quick there is no better investment right now than the housing market. Buy your house freshman year and sell it in 4 years after you graduate vet school when the market will assuredly be better than it is now. Why put 7k a year in rent when you can pay into a house and actually be making money when you graduate.

 

[VAgirl]

The fact that the housing market has taken a nosedive means its the PERFECT time to buy a house. As long as your not looking to flip it and buy and sell quick there is no better investment right now than the housing market. Buy your house freshman year and sell it in 4 years after you graduate vet school when the market will assuredly be better than it is now. Why put 7k a year in rent when you can pay into a house and actually be making money when you graduate.

This is only partially true. If the market has bottomed out, yes it's perfect. If the market is going to continue to go down and then have a return to very slow gains rather than the insane growth we've seen recently, then perhaps not. There's a lot more than just the mortgage that you have to pay. You pay mortgage, plus real estate taxes, plus condo or home owners association fees. Then you pay for maintaining the property. Also, when you buy, you have closing costs. But when you sell, you pay for both real estate agents, which is up to 6% of the homes resale value. So you have to ask yourself not only how the cost of mortgage + condo/association fees + real estate taxes compares to rent on a month to month basis, but whether or not the home's resale value in 4 years is going to cover closing costs when you buy, real estate agent fees when you sell, and maintenance throughout. And let me tell you, none of this is ever certain. No one ever knows what the market is going to do before it does it. So add a whole bunch of stress onto the equation. The housing market (how much home values increase/decrease as well as resale-ability varies from location to location). Actually, as do the logistics of the buying/selling process.

So it's by no means a simple question to answer. Maybe buying is the right thing to do, and maybe it's not. But if you get into it just because you've heard it's a great investment, you have a whole lot more research to do before you're ready.

And I haven't even mentioned the whole idea of what kind of mortgage one would get. Because some of the loan products out there, like balloon loans and interest only loans can get you into a world of trouble and do not allow you to build up equity. Honestly, 4 years on a 30 year loan (especially if you don't have any serious money to put out a down payment...this means you'll take out a second mortgage at a higher interest rate to cover the down payment) is not a whole lot to build equity in your house. I've been paying my mortgage for 3.5 years, and only in the past few months has even 1/4 of my monthly payment begun to pay off principal. The rest is straight interest.

 

[rexosaurus]

Why put 7k a year in rent when you can pay into a house and actually be making money when you graduate.

Because I don't want to deal with all the crap that everyone on here is talking about. And because I know I'll move after the 4 years, there is no chance that I will stay, no matter how much I want to. (Thanks to WICHE)

 

[Electrophile]

Honestly (and quite sadly), buying our first house was not nearly as stressful as dealing with our very last landlord. Even planning my wedding a little over a year ago and applying to vet school was not as stressful as dealing with our last landlord!!! He was a total nightmare. If you get a good realtor and a lender who will explain things to you and check out a few books and websites on the subject, it was actually relatively painless. I will never rent again if we can possibly rent it.

 

[rexosaurus]

You're probably right. I am just very uninformed when it comes to the subject and it all sounds very intimidating to me. I just need to speak with someone that can lay it all out there in a language that I can understand and it won't be so scary for me. I'm just not looking forward to it, but I have plenty of time to educate myself!

 

[ShelterGirl]

How (if at all) does buying a home factor into your financial aid?

I'm worried that it would somehow count towards my assets - especially if I can pull together a sizeable downpayment. In addition, as a first-year you would presumably fill out the FAFSA around Feb, but not buy a home until the summer, right?

 

[VAgirl]

You're probably right. I am just very uninformed when it comes to the subject and it all sounds very intimidating to me. I just need to speak with someone that can lay it all out there in a language that I can understand and it won't be so scary for me. I'm just not looking forward to it, but I have plenty of time to educate myself!

It's a scary process, but not really that hard to understand once you have all the facts. I personally really like the "For Dummies" books on the subjects. "Homebuying for Dummies" and "Mortgages for Dummies." It lays everything out in plain English.

The bigger thing that I was trying to address is that one should not just blindly buy a home for what they know will be a short period of time without being very familiar with the market in that area and what the ramifications may be when they try to resell in just a few years. Even if you just want to break even, there are no guarantees you can do that. Like all investments, it's a risk. The only way buying a house isn't really a risk is if you don't treat it like an investment. As in, you really intend to live there (or hold onto the property) for a fair amount of time. That's just the way it is these days.

 

[bakaduin]

It's a scary process, but not really that hard to understand once you have all the facts. I personally really like the "For Dummies" books on the subjects. "Homebuying for Dummies" and "Mortgages for Dummies." It lays everything out in plain English.

The bigger thing that I was trying to address is that one should not just blindly buy a home for what they know will be a short period of time without being very familiar with the market in that area and what the ramifications may be when they try to resell in just a few years. Even if you just want to break even, there are no guarantees you can do that. Like all investments, it's a risk. The only way buying a house isn't really a risk is if you don't treat it like an investment. As in, you really intend to live there (or hold onto the property) for a fair amount of time. That's just the way it is these days.

I think your most valuable point (which was in your previous post) is that buying a house with a small downpayment probably isnt a good idea. Especially with all the recent problems they've had with giving out too many mortgages of this type.

 

[Electrophile]

It's not necessarily the small down payment itself that's the issue (but it can be). People tend to buy more house than they originally budgeted for. If you watch HGTV, house hunters do this ALL the time and it's really aggravating. We originally wanted to stick with the 80-110K range, but we ended up going to 117 because we got an excellent deal (was originally listed for 130K in a very nice little neighborhood) that was very structurally sound and little fixing up that needs to be done before we move. Before we move, we'll do a few cosmetic things to it like already put down hardwood floors and working on the fence in the backyard, and hopefully we'll get a good return on investment. No matter how much the housing market sucks, there is ALWAYS a market for nice, clean, well-kept, structurally sound houses with curb appeal in decent neighborhoods.

People are also drawn into low rates (the subprime craze) that go up. ARMs aren't necessarily bad things, especially if you're into flipping and rehabbing houses or know 110% you're going to be out of that house before it goes to adjustable, but a lot of people don't realize how tenuous they can be. A lot of people also go into it not having any emergency fund at all. We've got $1500 for our emergency fund for such things and you should have at least $1000 for emergencies (this is true of renters as well).

 

[VAgirl]

No matter how much the housing market sucks, there is ALWAYS a market for nice, clean, well-kept, structurally sound houses with curb appeal in decent neighborhoods.

Yes, but how many other nice, clean, well-kept, structurally sound houses with curb appeal are there in decent neighborhoods nearby? In some areas, the market is flooded with nice properties. (Perhaps this is not the case where you are. But it's important for people to realize they should factor this in.) If there are other properties of this type nearby, one either needs to be willing to hold onto the house until it's a good time to sell (one factor of a good time to sell being that there are not a ton of other houses nearby on the market), or to accept less than their asking price.

Where I am, I know plenty of people who have sold their homes recently, but it's often taken several months and they've had to be willing to come down some in price. Negotiating the actual selling price can throw another wrinkle into recouping the money you laid out.

 

[Electrophile]

In our price range, there were hardly any that fit those characteristics. It was appalling the conditions that some people left their houses to be shown in, let alone just little quick fixes that up the appeal. Tons of clutter, stains on the carpet, paint that hadn't been freshened up in 10 years, just basic stuff that you take care of before you sell a house. For example, spending $100 on sprucing up the front landscaping is invaluable, or even just $20 on putting two nice potted plants by the door. Of course, some people didn't even pay to have their carpets steam cleaned or air out the cigarette smoke. The nice, cute houses in our 80-110K range all sold very very quickly. It took us from when we started looking in April to going under contract in July to find a place, and we ended up having to go up to 117K.

So much of that is also the job of the seller's agent too, like taking crappy photos or a very small number of photos (if any!) for the MLS listings or being lazy or just plain wrong with info the listings. That would drive me absolutely crazy looking at the listings.

 

[ri23]

When I was looking online at places I was amazed at how many realtors did not have pictures up. They must realize that most people's first impressions of houses are from pictures online. There were so many available places that I didn't even bother looking at those places without pictures.

 

[rexosaurus]

this is sort of a side-note question, but say i fill out my FAFSA in February, and find out i'm accepted in April per se. When do they give you the cash? The only reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if you get student loans in time to help you move across the country if you need to, or set up in a new location, all those things cost a lot of money that I'm not sure I'll have! Eeek!

 

[JerseyisCutest]

This is sort of off topic..........but has anyone had any experience with moving in with people you didn't know beforehand?

I did this freshman year of udnergrad and it was great, all 3 girls were really nice and friendly (and 2 years older). However, sophomore year I moved in with 3 people I knew from high school and it was a disaster so I guess now I'm a little nervous and tainted about the roommate situation. (I now live in a 1 bedroom) But living with other people would make rent cheaper obviously.......

The one problem I can see already might be that I have 2 small dogs and I know some places have limits on the # of dogs allowed........and I'm sure other vet students probably have pets as well.

 

[fargeese]

Money put into your primary mortgage does NOT count as an asset for FAFSA, and is one of the few places to "hide" your money from FAFSA if you want to save some for post-school. If I only knew where I was going to get in (or if I wasn't) I would buy a house in Nov.-Dec., when rates will go down and the foreclosures start coming in. I know that seems harsh, but people were doing some dumb things with ARM loans the last few years, and prices are finally adjusting to reality.

 

[Electrophile]

When I was looking online at places I was amazed at how many realtors did not have pictures up. They must realize that most people's first impressions of houses are from pictures online. There were so many available places that I didn't even bother looking at those places without pictures.

Oh definitely! I pretty much made appointments to see the place based on the photos because I didn't want to waste my time and my realtor's unless it had a really good or intriguing location. There was usually a reason why a place didn't have pictures.

this is sort of a side-note question, but say i fill out my FAFSA in February, and find out i'm accepted in April per se. When do they give you the cash? The only reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if you get student loans in time to help you move across the country if you need to, or set up in a new location, all those things cost a lot of money that I'm not sure I'll have! Eeek!

The school you will end up with will likely have a financial aid adviser to help you, but that being said, the aid generally gets dispersed right before school starts, so you'd probably have the money to make mortgage or rent payments during the school year, but you probably wouldn't have it if you closed on a house say by June or July before vet school started. And if I recall, when we filled out our FAFSA, the value of the house we live in didn't count against us as far as aid goes. If you had rental property or other investment property, it'd probably be different, but I don't think so for just the house you own/live in. But double check with the financial aid adviser. We still got offered the 35K or whatever we were offered, same as about everyone else.

This is sort of off topic..........but has anyone had any experience with moving in with people you didn't know beforehand?

Personally, I have not liked just about every single roommate I've ever had except those I had junior year were okay (and the exception of my husband)! If you can afford it, I'd get a place to yourself. There's so much drama and in-fighting in most vet schools (and I'm a slightly older than most of them and married, so I tend to stay out of it mostly), I'd love to get away from it. Like invite people over when you want to hang out, but make them leave when you need to too! Plus you don't have to put up with your pets not getting along with their pets and all that craziness.

 

[rexosaurus]

generally, roommates SUCK!

 

[david594]

I think your most valuable point (which was in your previous post) is that buying a house with a small downpayment probably isnt a good idea. Especially with all the recent problems they've had with giving out too many mortgages of this type.

But if you have the money on hand to make a large downpayment wont that seriously work against you in the financial aid department? Isnt the assumption that something like half of ones cash assets will be used towards their education?

I had a good roommate freshman year. Quiet guy, got along fine. Sophmore year had different roommates who were also cool, but we did our own thing and all was good. Junior and senior year moved in with my freshman roommates and a few others friends. Sophmore-Senior year we all had small single bedrooms and a large common space which made it very livable. Having that little bit of privacy made all the difference.

I would have no reservations about getting a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment with other people who were pre-vet/vet students. You will both have similiar workloads so its unlikely you will be home all the time studying while they are out partying and vice versa.

 

[runnerDC]

If you can afford to buy a place, and you plan on keeping it for several years (I would count the years in vet school as "several"), then my advice would be to do so. Sure, you have to fix the little things that pop up (or hire someone to do it), but that really shouldn't keep you from buying a place rather than throwing down rent paying someone else's mortgage.

FYI--the fed gov't does not look at equity in primary home as an asset source for federal aid purposes, so investing in a home is also a convenient way to "shelter" your money. Your individual school, for institutional aid purposes, however, might look at equity in primary home (as well as other financial assets you might have that the fed gov't doesn't look at (i.e. retirement assets)).

How (if at all) does buying a home factor into your financial aid?

I'm worried that it would somehow count towards my assets - especially if I can pull together a sizeable downpayment. In addition, as a first-year you would presumably fill out the FAFSA around Feb, but not buy a home until the summer, right?

 

[runnerDC]

Keep an open mind when looking at real estate, though. Yes, there is sometimes good reason for a place to not have pictures (i.e. cosmetically, it might not be too pretty). But, also keep in mind that the only thing "wrong" with a place might be that it hasn't been cosmetically updated in a while. If the place has sound systems, roof, plumbing, and electrical, but hideous wallpaper and/or bathrooms from the 70's, you can probably negotiate a better deal on it than you could on a place in the same neighborhood that has been recently updated. And then fix it up to your liking over time. Usually cheaper to do it that way--i.e. a faster way to build equity--than to pay a premium for updates that someone else did, that you may or may not even care about (i.e. granite counter tops?!), just prior to your purchase. Just another perspective.

Oh definitely! I pretty much made appointments to see the place based on the photos because I didn't want to waste my time and my realtor's unless it had a really good or intriguing location. There was usually a reason why a place didn't have pictures.

 

[alonepear]

I agree that it will be dependent on where you're going to school as to which living arrangements are more convenient and affordable, but for what it's worth I am so very glad that we decided to buy a house when we moved to Mississippi.

It's a quaint little town with the cheapest real estate I've ever seen. Our house is adorable, was sold to us by a graduating vet student and has been kept updated through it's almost 40 years in existence, and the best perk is the huge fenced-in backyard that keeps the animals happy and most importantly, out of my hair when I'm studying!

It worked out for our situation nicely because we only needed a small down payment, and our monthly payments are literally less than the rent we were paying back in North Carolina. We are paying them with loan money, but since we'll be selling the house when we move we can put it back towards the loans at that point. Plus my SO is going to grad school down here and will finish 2 years ahead of me and can start raking in some dough =)

A lot of people in my class just continued living with their roommates from undergrad this year, and almost all of them are regretting it big time because they don't have enough "quiet time" to study.

 

[rexosaurus]

i'm really starting to consider living all by myself!

 

[dyachei]

i'm really starting to consider living all by myself!

With my current roommate situation, I feel the same way. Totally not worth dealing with the stress of having a bad roommate with the stress of being in vet school.

 

[laurafinn]

Wow! I guess I've had great luck with roommates, by and large. I live with two other vet students now, and I really enjoy it. It's nice to have people who understand where you're coming from and who you can share silly jokes with. Also people who are as crazy about your pets as you are! It's a lot cheaper, and you can split the rent on a house with a nice yard, instead of a generic apartment.

 

[laurafinn]

I guess I should add that if you're not a roommate-person, you're not a roommate-person. Go with what works best for your personality and study habits. ... I didn't know my roommates before they moved in - one I met via SDN (hi Beth!) and the other I was hosting for a few days while she got settled in New Zealand - that worked out so well she's still living here after 1 1/2 years

 

[Electrophile]

Keep an open mind when looking at real estate, though. Yes, there is sometimes good reason for a place to not have pictures (i.e. cosmetically, it might not be too pretty). But, also keep in mind that the only thing "wrong" with a place might be that it hasn't been cosmetically updated in a while. If the place has sound systems, roof, plumbing, and electrical, but hideous wallpaper and/or bathrooms from the 70's, you can probably negotiate a better deal on it than you could on a place in the same neighborhood that has been recently updated. And then fix it up to your liking over time. Usually cheaper to do it that way--i.e. a faster way to build equity--than to pay a premium for updates that someone else did, that you may or may not even care about (i.e. granite counter tops?!), just prior to your purchase. Just another perspective.

Oh yeah, I totally understand. I made it very clear to our realtor that we were definitely open to cosmetic fixers. My mom has always been really into real estate, so I think inherited her "I love HGTV" gene. I read numerous books on the subject as well.

We almost bid on two cosmetic fixers, but found out from talking with the seller's agent, both weren't going to come down on the price even though the houses were on the market for 9 months and over a year respectively. We ended up going for a slightly more expensive house that was an excellent buy (they wanted 130K originally, we got it for 117K plus $2500 in closing costs). We won't have to do all that much to this to resell it when I'm done. Got the new wood floor put down, got a guy coming over in a few minutes to do an estimate on the new 6 foot fence for the dogs, will probably get an on demand hot water heater put in. Furnace and A/C especially may need replacing by the time we're out as they are the originals (it's 24 years old). I'll look around to get high efficiency ones to get the various tax breaks and refunds. But the foundation is in great shape as we got to look at the slab when the old carpet was pulled up. Wish we had a basement though. We are keeping the dog crates in the dining room.