Medical HMS (Full Loans) vs. CCLCM (Full COA) vs. Pritzker (full-tuition)

[Goro]

Hi,
First of all, I would say that I have had a very successful application cycle. I've been fortunate to be accepted at HMS, CCLCM, UChicago Pritzker, Northwestern Feinberg, Mt. Sinai, as well as Mayo-Rochester. That was in large part due to the great advice I got from folks on this forum, including many of you. So thanks!

Brief background on me: I have been living in Boston the last couple of years working in an HMS-affiliated research lab, have a long-term partner here (hopefully, soon to be fiancee), have family here, as well as my immediate family only a couple hours drive away. When I got into HMS, I was deadset on attending due to these personal reasons as well as professional reasons (would be able to continue doing things I am doing inside/outside of the lab). HMS is need-based only, so unfortunately, I did not qualify for any FA based due to the paperwork we submitted. I felt I had a productive meeting with the FA director, so hopefully that improves, but I want to go into making this decision assuming the FA will stay the same. I will not ask my parents to contribute anything to my graduate education.

I am writing this post to hear from you all what you would do in my situation. I think my career goals are to pursue a surgical subspecialty and go into academic medicine. I would like research to be a minor component of my career, as my main goal is to be an outstanding clinician.

I've read countless posts on these sorts of dilemmas elsewhere, but I think mine may be a bit unique in that I got into "the most prestigious school in the country" that is located where I am most comfortable and where my partner is most comfortable. I worked extremely hard the last few years to get into HMS and be in this dilemma. I got zero love from any other schools in Boston. Is going to HMS worth 400k+ loans after interest? If this was not HMS, I would be taking the full COA or full-tuition hands down. I know it matters how you do where you go, not where you go.

My heart is saying go to HMS despite the loans, because (assuming programs like PSLF are still out there), I will eventually pay it back, especially if I stick with my plan of pursuing a surgical subspecialty. What's the price of happiness? Medicine is going to be hard, so you might as well go where you are happy?

On the other side, my head is saying go where you will have no debt, few people are in as great a position as you are. Zero debt means it is totally fine if I hate surgery and want to do primary care ,IM, etc - I can be whatever type of physician I want to be. Plus, I wouldn't have to worry about paying 1/3 of my take-home salary as an attending to pay off loans that have doubled due to interest. Would such a debt actually make me even more unhappy because I would constantly be thinking about it and not enjoying the process of becoming a physician as much?

I've spoken with mentors who were in a similar position to me and who choose HMS and have zero regrets about the loan burden due to programs such as PSLF. I've spoken to mentors who were not in this position but would hands down choose HMS if they were in this position. They have said such things without having the personal connections to Boston that I have. When I speak to people outside medicine (eg parents), they said take the money.

Sorry if this seems like rambling. Would love to hear what you guys would do in this situation. Of note, I did get generous merit-based aid at other schools (Feinberg 1/2 tuition), Mayo (1/2 tuition), still waiting to hear from Sinai.

Free ride all the way.

Now, I have to admit that some of the most brilliant doctors I have ever met went to Harvard Medical School, but you're going to be able to do whatever you want to do in your career no matter what medical school you go to, amongst the ones you have choices of.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Full COA, period. Cost of living in Cleveland is super cheap, but you'll have all the amenities of living in a big city with half the cost. To not have to pay for anything else aside from annoying things like perhaps parking your car and food will be very beneficial when life decides to cross your path (i.e., children or parent caregiver costs).

 

[MusicDOc124]

You would do this even if it meant moving a partner of 7-years away from her support system?
I didn't realize how much cheaper Cleveland was than Boston until I started looking up housing. You can get a nice 2 bedroom there for $1100 with parking, dog-friendly, etc. Crazy cheap!

The amount of cost savings for something temporary? Absolutely.

It's easy for others who have not been in the situation to say they'd go to HMS because they have nothing riding on a theoretical decision.

The others... were they truly in the same situation? What schools gave similar/same offers? Locations? Relationships and support? Did they have any help from family regarding any cost? Etc.

Whether HMS is the right way to go or full COA is up to you, and only you can make that decision. All we can do is offer advice. Many commenting have gone through it or see people go through it. Debt is a huge burden. PSLF is not a guarantee and could end. It affects your ability to buy a home. It affects what field you may decide to go into when the realization sets in. BUT, none of that can be accounted for if your heart is truly set on HMS for good reason.

Weigh out what is important to you. Be realistic. The education will be the same between all of these schools. Your ability to match will be no different and still based on your scores, research, etc, all of which are consistently good amongst these schools.

Regarding education, you won't come out any further ahead one way or another here. But financially, 1-2 of these puts you lightyears ahead of others.

My rec is for full COA.

 

[Goro]

That's for you two to answer. Is her support system worth going into debt to the tune of six Teslas????

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

IMO, sitting where I am now after medical school (and in surgical subspecialty), I would take the cheapest option. If you are smart enough to get into HMS, you will be able to go anywhere with the schools you have.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I also agree. Full COA is my preference, but you are making the decision for two so you have to take that into account. It isn’t just a question of dollars and cents

 

[gutonc]

IMO, sitting where I am now after medical school (and in surgical subspecialty), I would take the cheapest option. If you are smart enough to get into HMS, you will be able to go anywhere with the schools you have.

Agreed. If we're only considering two things, $ and future opportunities, you'll go to CCLCM because it's free and, given that you were able to get into HMS, your opportunities down the road aren't going to be limited by the reputations of any of these places. If you're concerned about that, split the difference and go to UofC.

Taking your partner into account is something that only you can really do. But hopefully your partner is taking YOU into account as well. Imagine what you could do with an extra half a mill. And do NOT make decisions based on the theoretical existence of PSLF in 15 years, that's a suckers bet.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Agreed. If we're only considering two things, $ and future opportunities, you'll go to CCLCM because it's free and, given that you were able to get into HMS, your opportunities down the road aren't going to be limited by the reputations of any of these places. If you're concerned about that, split the difference and go to UofC.

Taking your partner into account is something that only you can really do. But hopefully your partner is taking YOU into account as well. Imagine what you could do with an extra half a mill. And do NOT make decisions based on the theoretical existence of PSLF in 15 years, that's a suckers bet.

Exactly. On top of this...to get PSLF you have to work at a non-profit. Right now you think you wanna work in academics but that could easily change in the next 5 years.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Hello!

I applied for the 2020-2021 MD cycle and am desperately trying to identify why I was "shut out". I went in with what I thought was a very solid app (stats below), applied to 16 schools (mix of reach schools, in-state schools, and below my MCAT schools), and the best outcome so far has been a waitlist at two schools (neither a top choice nor a great fit for myself). I had 3 interviews. I've kept in contact with the WL schools (but no replies from them).

mcat - 514
gpa - 3.92 (bs), 4.00 (ms)
research - 3 pubs (2 first author) in biophysics research, 2 in-progress pubs in nutrition, and obviously several hours of research
volunteer - ~200 hours (mix of animal, human health)
work - leadership of 15 students and a mini-department in my school's rec center
courses - I had a heavy math background, met all pre-reqs for my schools, got mostly As in science courses
essays - they were not Pulitzer prize-winning essays, but I felt I put time and effort into them. I had different folks and my pre-med advisor review them as well.

At this point, I'm so frustrated with the process (as I'm sure several others are) and so curious why I got R after R. If anyone has ideas, I would love to know! Thank you for your time!

Which schools did you apply to? Please break down what you did for clinical and non-clinical hours and how many hours? Shadowing?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Since you say that the 200 hours of volunteering is a mix of "animal and human health," I kind of suspect you were light on clinical experience hours. But agree with @TheBoneDoctah , we need to see the breakdown. Would also be helpful to know your state of residence--if you're from CA, the bar is just higher.

 

[Goro]

What was your school list?

When did you apply?

State of residence?

If your MS was a research MS, that GPA will be discounted.

For starters it was a VERY competitive cycle. My DO school is still averaging about 25% of interviewees having 90th %ile MCAT scores, and we're seeing uGs from the Ivies... that's never happened before with us. And we started interviewing for the waitlist back in Dec! That's another first!

How many hours shadowing?

How many hrs clinical exposure?

How many hours nonclinical volunteering?

How many hours research?

 

[lord999]

If Research or Leadership is not a concern, then Cleveland. Otherwise, I would give contrary advice and say HMS, but not because of your SO. It's been my unfortunate observation that at best, half of relationships that start medical school survive that and residency. I actually would not necessarily say you should decide for two rather than you. If your partner's need for a support network is so fragile that it must be local, the relationship is going to enter troubled waters for the decade that you will be in training.

For Leadership, I would recommend take the 5 Tesla debt and go to HMS, because like Yale and Penn, the positioning for executive, management consulting, and leadership employee are especially good with the Crimson, the Eli, and the Quakers, and they are closed networks. (Northwestern also has ties, but they are not as closed though they do an outstanding job with placing physician management consultants competitively.) Those three have those exclusive networks with Stanford. For Research, being at one of the schools on your list, it's between HMS, Mayo Rochester, and Pritzker depending on subject, but all have very closed and extensive networks that tuition is not an impediment given the translations to future earnings and or grant/industry potential.

Don't depend on PSLF. I would depend on your personal read of yourself though, and if you are not certain and want the most doors open, then it is HMS if you can maintain the same performance standard. If you are set in going into practice and not some of the niche positions, then Lerner is your best choice as you should qualify for whatever you want given the performance standard. If Research is a potential, I do not think Lerner has many premier laboratories in the city much less the state or region.