Hillary Clinton wants to socialize healthcare!!!

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OldPsychDoc said:
Wrong--the HMO-ization (I like that word btw) was already going on. It was an attempt by payors to reign in out of control costs by limiting and managing benefit payments. I know that I first heard the terms "managed care" and "pre-authorization" when the benefits package was rolled out in the second year of my first job--in 1985--back when St. Ronald the Righteous Conservatus ruled the land and most of the members of this board were wearing diapers under their short white coats. :D

Those of you who fear that a bureaucracy will one day control the practice of health care probably haven't actually worked in healthcare yet.
The day's already here--it just happens to be a bureaucracy for-profit run by the HIAA...
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OK so wouldn't national healthcare break their monopoly and create opportunities for competition?
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dutchman said:
My point is that doctors need to come out of the idealist shell that they are hiding in. Why carry the burden of a society where everyone is hell bent on securing their own interests. A few weeks ago Supreme court judges asked for a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Congress itself asked(and got) a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Doctors however are scared stiff to use the word money, or to appear like they are fighting for their interests. They have to hide behind patient care every time they want to fight for their own. Doctors are also the only group of people that justify their own pay cut.

I say screw the whole "we are trying to cure the world" attitude while you and your family take continious emotional and financial hits. Yes we need to cover the poor, but who says doctors have to pay for it? When the government wants to make a cut in reimbursements, they factor patients, insurance companies and political leverage into their decision. No one ever considers doctors, mostly because doctors are passive about their own walfare.

Doctors need to come together under one voice and send a message to the politicians that there will be consequencies for policies that compromise the welfare of doctors. Once they know that, they will factor doctors into their decision making process. As it is today, they could give a flying f&ck about how doctors feel about any policy. Its time to stop being reactive and start being proactive, you are loosing ground way too fast. Look at all the strong labor unions out there, nobody dares to screw arround with their interests, and if you are a politician, you better factor their reaction to your policies into your decision making. In a democracy, you fight for your own interests.
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I'm w/ this guy!
 
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dutchman said:
My point is that doctors need to come out of the idealist shell that they are hiding in. Why carry the burden of a society where everyone is hell bent on securing their own interests. A few weeks ago Supreme court judges asked for a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Congress itself asked(and got) a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Doctors however are scared stiff to use the word money, or to appear like they are fighting for their interests. They have to hide behind patient care every time they want to fight for their own. Doctors are also the only group of people that justify their own pay cut.

I say screw the whole "we are trying to cure the world" attitude while you and your family take continious emotional and financial hits. Yes we need to cover the poor, but who says doctors have to pay for it? When the government wants to make a cut in reimbursements, they factor patients, insurance companies and political leverage into their decision. No one ever considers doctors, mostly because doctors are passive about their own walfare.

Doctors need to come together under one voice and send a message to the politicians that there will be consequencies for policies that compromise the welfare of doctors. Once they know that, they will factor doctors into their decision making process. As it is today, they could give a flying f&ck about how doctors feel about any policy. Its time to stop being reactive and start being proactive, you are loosing ground way too fast. Look at all the strong labor unions out there, nobody dares to screw arround with their interests, and if you are a politician, you better factor their reaction to your policies into your decision making. In a democracy, you fight for your own interests.
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What he said!!
 
Weirdoc said:
How about we just don't vote for Hillary and delay the inevitable.
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because the system in place now isn't adequate either. Oldpsychdoc makes the critical point in regards to HIAA, they dictate wat you are payed, not the market or your skills.
 
If you want to be political, join the AMA.

One reason labor unions work is because of their leaders (perhaps the biggest reason they work). The leaders organize and inform. For many of us, students up through doctors, part of the problem is a lack of knowledge, something I can attest to. There can be too much knowledge as well, or too poor a delivery of knowledge. The lobbyists who report and assists unions need to be sure they not only get out the info but also present it to us in a manageable way.
 
dutchman said:
My point is that doctors need to come out of the idealist shell that they are hiding in. Why carry the burden of a society where everyone is hell bent on securing their own interests. A few weeks ago Supreme court judges asked for a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Congress itself asked(and got) a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Doctors however are scared stiff to use the word money, or to appear like they are fighting for their interests. They have to hide behind patient care every time they want to fight for their own. Doctors are also the only group of people that justify their own pay cut.

I say screw the whole "we are trying to cure the world" attitude while you and your family take continious emotional and financial hits. Yes we need to cover the poor, but who says doctors have to pay for it? When the government wants to make a cut in reimbursements, they factor patients, insurance companies and political leverage into their decision. No one ever considers doctors, mostly because doctors are passive about their own walfare.

Doctors need to come together under one voice and send a message to the politicians that there will be consequencies for policies that compromise the welfare of doctors. Once they know that, they will factor doctors into their decision making process. As it is today, they could give a flying f&ck about how doctors feel about any policy. Its time to stop being reactive and start being proactive, you are loosing ground way too fast. Look at all the strong labor unions out there, nobody dares to screw arround with their interests, and if you are a politician, you better factor their reaction to your policies into your decision making. In a democracy, you fight for your own interests.
Click to expand...

Finally a post that actually makes sense on this issue, I used to work in government an deal with lobbyists, and the doctor lobby is pathetic, they never come out say, "screw me and I'll make damn sure I screw you", we need to grow a spine as a profession and stand up for ourselves.....We are Professionals first, and every specialty deserves to make top dollar for there level of expertise....the problem is we have allowed for people to think that health care is a "Human Right" that you don't have to pay for, I dont know about yall, but this is simple ridiculous. When did MRI's, Patented Meds, Stints, become a "Human Right" in America. Also, Insurance companies are rolling in the dough, their CEO's and Board Members are making millions some hundreds of millions of dollars a year, while they keep saying they have to go down on doctors reimbursement.....Its just plain insulting......collectively Doctors are a group of the most intelligent and charismatic people in the country that are the gate keepers to the most valuable service for individuals in times of need......lets use this as leverage and demand to be treated with respect, because if we don't drug companies, insurance companies, and the government will keep sticking it further and further up our already stretched Cornhole!!!
 
labor unions don't work-if you are from my area of the country you would see that first hand with the UAW. The strongest union in the nation is hardly a labor union (the teachers union) the idea of unionizing physicians would be a nightmare, although I do agree that some sort of unified voice needs to come out-you can forget the notion of me paying union dues to anybody. I am interest to hear what practicing physicians have to say about the issue. only one has chimed in here and I was hoping more would.
 
beefballs said:
labor unions don't work-if you are from my area of the country you would see that first hand with the UAW. The strongest union in the nation is hardly a labor union (the teachers union) the idea of unionizing physicians would be a nightmare, although I do agree that some sort of unified voice needs to come out-you can forget the notion of me paying union dues to anybody. I am interest to hear what practicing physicians have to say about the issue. only one has chimed in here and I was hoping more would.
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There's a discussion on the General Residency Issues forum that's a smidgen more informed going on right now...it's the "Babylonian" one.:confused:
 
Let me get this straight. Just a thought.

Universal Health Care means more patients, less pay. More patients= Increase of malpractice suits, which means more insurance cost for Doctors. Which means less money to get, from an already shrunken paycheck.

Is this how it's going to be?
 
beefballs said:
labor unions don't work-if you are from my area of the country you would see that first hand with the UAW. The strongest union in the nation is hardly a labor union (the teachers union) the idea of unionizing physicians would be a nightmare, although I do agree that some sort of unified voice needs to come out-you can forget the notion of me paying union dues to anybody. I am interest to hear what practicing physicians have to say about the issue. only one has chimed in here and I was hoping more would.
Click to expand...

Lawyers fight together, midlevels(NPs and PAs) fight together. All of them are making serious gains. Do not under-estimate the power of unions, or a collective voice willing to carry out a collective action. The only other alternative is to sit back and get steamrolled by the politicians and other unions.
 
Jiggles said:
Let me get this straight. Just a thought.

Universal Health Care means more patients, less pay. More patients= Increase of malpractice suits, which means more insurance cost for Doctors. Which means less money to get, from an already shrunken paycheck.

Is this how it's going to be?
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If you let it, yes.
 
A guy can shoot a ball through a hoop and we will pay him millions! A guy can save your life in the ER or w/ surg etc...... We want to cut his salary! I don't our society.
 
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Jiggles said:
Let me get this straight. Just a thought.

Universal Health Care means more patients, less pay. More patients= Increase of malpractice suits, which means more insurance cost for Doctors. Which means less money to get, from an already shrunken paycheck.

Is this how it's going to be?
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. Theoretically you can offset lower reimbursements by doing a bigger volume (i.e. a lot more hours), which is what some FPs are already having to do to maintain their income level, but obviously there is a practical limit to this.
 
Law2Doc said:
Sounds about right. Theoretically you can offset lower reimbursements by doing a bigger volume (i.e. a lot more hours), which is what some FPs are already having to do to maintain their income level, but obviously there is a practical limit to this.
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So this would lead to a decline in the quality and quantity of Doctors? Basically making the system even more screwed up?
 
Jiggles said:
So this would lead to a decline in the quality and quantity of Doctors? Basically making the system even more screwed up?
Click to expand...

You are assuming that high numbers of high quality people won't go into the system as incomes decline. Might be true, but it doesn't seem to work that way in a number of other countries where salaries are lower, and yet the quality and quantity of physicians appears adequately high.
 
don't worry. America will not have a female president for at least another 100 years.
 
dutchman said:
Lawyers fight together, midlevels(NPs and PAs) fight together. All of them are making serious gains. Do not under-estimate the power of unions, or a collective voice willing to carry out a collective action. The only other alternative is to sit back and get steamrolled by the politicians and other unions.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the ugly truth. One's ability to pay off the right congressmen seems to hold a lot more weight in this country than the ability to do one's job effectively.
 
Originally Posted by dutchman
My point is that doctors need to come out of the idealist shell that they are hiding in. Why carry the burden of a society where everyone is hell bent on securing their own interests. A few weeks ago Supreme court judges asked for a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Congress itself asked(and got) a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Doctors however are scared stiff to use the word money, or to appear like they are fighting for their interests. They have to hide behind patient care every time they want to fight for their own. Doctors are also the only group of people that justify their own pay cut.

I say screw the whole "we are trying to cure the world" attitude while you and your family take continious emotional and financial hits. Yes we need to cover the poor, but who says doctors have to pay for it? When the government wants to make a cut in reimbursements, they factor patients, insurance companies and political leverage into their decision. No one ever considers doctors, mostly because doctors are passive about their own walfare.

Doctors need to come together under one voice and send a message to the politicians that there will be consequencies for policies that compromise the welfare of doctors. Once they know that, they will factor doctors into their decision making process. As it is today, they could give a flying f&ck about how doctors feel about any policy. Its time to stop being reactive and start being proactive, you are loosing ground way too fast. Look at all the strong labor unions out there, nobody dares to screw arround with their interests, and if you are a politician, you better factor their reaction to your policies into your decision making. In a democracy, you fight for your own interests.
Click to expand...


Holistic said:
Finally a post that actually makes sense on this issue, I used to work in government an deal with lobbyists, and the doctor lobby is pathetic, they never come out say, "screw me and I'll make damn sure I screw you", we need to grow a spine as a profession and stand up for ourselves.....We are Professionals first, and every specialty deserves to make top dollar for there level of expertise....the problem is we have allowed for people to think that health care is a "Human Right" that you don't have to pay for, I dont know about yall, but this is simple ridiculous. When did MRI's, Patented Meds, Stints, become a "Human Right" in America. Also, Insurance companies are rolling in the dough, their CEO's and Board Members are making millions some hundreds of millions of dollars a year, while they keep saying they have to go down on doctors reimbursement.....Its just plain insulting......collectively Doctors are a group of the most intelligent and charismatic people in the country that are the gate keepers to the most valuable service for individuals in times of need......lets use this as leverage and demand to be treated with respect, because if we don't drug companies, insurance companies, and the government will keep sticking it further and further up our already stretched Cornhole!!!
Click to expand...


WERD.
 
Law2Doc said:
You are assuming that high numbers of high quality people won't go into the system as incomes decline. Might be true, but it doesn't seem to work that way in a number of other countries where salaries are lower, and yet the quality and quantity of physicians appears adequately high.
Click to expand...

By a decline in the quality of Doctors, I was referring to the overworking of Docs with the increase of patients. Not necessarily that would-be good Docs would choose a different career because of the lack of income.

How much of a decrease of income are we talking about? I've come up almost empty in comparing incomes of US Docs to other Doctors. I only found one site, and compared to other Universal Health care countries, the salaries were about $30k-$50k less there.
 
Jiggles said:
By a decline in the quality of Doctors, I was referring to the overworking of Docs with the increase of patients. Not necessarily that would-be good Docs would choose a different career because of the lack of income.

How much of a decrease of income are we talking about? I've come up almost empty in comparing incomes of US Docs to other Doctors. I only found one site, and compared to other Universal Health care countries, the salaries were about $30k-$50k less there.
Click to expand...

The issue is not Universal healthcare, It is about politicians factoring doctors into the equation. Right now they dont give a rats ass about doctors, so technically they could create a situation that cuts physicians' income drastically. That is why physicians need to make their voices heard, especially today, as we are in the initial stages of an inevitable change in policy.
 
Dutchman and Holistic - Is there a group, like AAMC is for med schools, AMSA is for med students ...just for practicing Physicians? (The AMA is way too broad based in political connection to count) Beacuse that seems like an obvious gap. If so, why aren't your well said points on their agenda? If not, I say you start one. Somone has got to do it..
 
Teejay said:
. . . I think its going to take 2/3 of both houses to pass universaL health since its probably an amendment or something of that sought. . . .
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:confused: :confused: This is a totally original constitutional theory. Congress can pass & the president can sign a law extending health insurance to all Americans.
 
ExKitty Doctor said:
Dutchman and Holistic - Is there a group, like AAMC is for med schools, AMSA is for med students ...just for practicing Physicians? (The AMA is way too broad based in political connection to count) Beacuse that seems like an obvious gap. If so, why aren't your well said points on their agenda? If not, I say you start one. Somone has got to do it..
Click to expand...

The AMA isn't that broad based. I'm not sure who you think they represent, but it's pretty much doctors, residents, and students.
 
Holistic said:
Finally a post that actually makes sense on this issue, I used to work in government an deal with lobbyists, and the doctor lobby is pathetic, they never come out say, "screw me and I'll make damn sure I screw you", we need to grow a spine as a profession and stand up for ourselves.....We are Professionals first, and every specialty deserves to make top dollar for there level of expertise....the problem is we have allowed for people to think that health care is a "Human Right" that you don't have to pay for, I dont know about yall, but this is simple ridiculous. When did MRI's, Patented Meds, Stints, become a "Human Right" in America. Also, Insurance companies are rolling in the dough, their CEO's and Board Members are making millions some hundreds of millions of dollars a year, while they keep saying they have to go down on doctors reimbursement.....Its just plain insulting......collectively Doctors are a group of the most intelligent and charismatic people in the country that are the gate keepers to the most valuable service for individuals in times of need......lets use this as leverage and demand to be treated with respect, because if we don't drug companies, insurance companies, and the government will keep sticking it further and further up our already stretched Cornhole!!!
Click to expand...

I meant broad based in terms of political aims. They do SO many things, like put their label on consumer products and stuff like that. Its not poised politically to act as a union to achieve the goals Dutchman and Holistic describe.
 
That's funny, because a whole big group of just AMA students is going up to Capitol Hill to talk about loans, malpractice reform, and the SGR. Guess I've just been wasting my time.

The group would do whatever it can get its members to vote on, and unfortunately, there are a lot of old guard there that don't think we should change things because they are worried about change. There have been resolutions brought up to not treat trial lawyers in the past, but these have (thankfully) be shot down as well. The more people who want these things join the AMA and make their voices heard, the more likely it will happen.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
That's funny, because a whole big group of just AMA students is going up to Capitol Hill to talk about loans, malpractice reform, and the SGR. Guess I've just been wasting my time.

The group would do whatever it can get its members to vote on, and unfortunately, there are a lot of old guard there that don't think we should change things because they are worried about change. There have been resolutions brought up to not treat trial lawyers in the past, but these have (thankfully) be shot down as well. The more people who want these things join the AMA and make their voices heard, the more likely it will happen.
Click to expand...

I think it would be funny if doctors stopped treating trial lawyers, but yeah, I guess that would be unethical.
 
dutchman said:
My point is that doctors need to come out of the idealist shell that they are hiding in. Why carry the burden of a society where everyone is hell bent on securing their own interests. A few weeks ago Supreme court judges asked for a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Congress itself asked(and got) a pay raise, they were not ashamed. Doctors however are scared stiff to use the word money, or to appear like they are fighting for their interests. They have to hide behind patient care every time they want to fight for their own. Doctors are also the only group of people that justify their own pay cut.

I say screw the whole "we are trying to cure the world" attitude while you and your family take continious emotional and financial hits. Yes we need to cover the poor, but who says doctors have to pay for it? When the government wants to make a cut in reimbursements, they factor patients, insurance companies and political leverage into their decision. No one ever considers doctors, mostly because doctors are passive about their own walfare.

Doctors need to come together under one voice and send a message to the politicians that there will be consequencies for policies that compromise the welfare of doctors. Once they know that, they will factor doctors into their decision making process. As it is today, they could give a flying f&ck about how doctors feel about any policy. Its time to stop being reactive and start being proactive, you are loosing ground way too fast. Look at all the strong labor unions out there, nobody dares to screw arround with their interests, and if you are a politician, you better factor their reaction to your policies into your decision making. In a democracy, you fight for your own interests.
Click to expand...


AMEN BROTHA'!!!! sing the good word! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :D
 
Law2Doc said:
Some OBGYNs actually tried that a while back -- they got sued because of the discrimination. Ended up more costly than just accepting the patients.
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Law2Doc, what is the legal precedent that makes it improper to discriminate based on trial lawyer status?
 
Miami_med said:
Law2Doc, what is the legal precedent that makes it improper to discriminate based on trial lawyer status?
Click to expand...

Lawyers aren't a protected class, constitutionally, but there was a highly publicised instance in GA in the 80s where lawyers and their spouses weren't able to find obstetric care which spawned a variety of local legislation in some jurisdictions preventing this kind of discrimination, and resulted in litigation. Apparently this isn't nationally the case though (my bad) -- I found this interesting USA Today article on google on the issue: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-13-med-malpractice_x.htm

At any rate, there are lawyers on both sides of the medmal issue, and an ever increasing pool of dual degree individuals and couples, so I'm not sure a "no lawyer patients" policy is the right one.
 
that is a stupid petty thing that would acomplish nothing. Political action is the way to go, look at how effective aipac is. Other professions just work the system better, kind of a shame that physicians are unable to come up with some sort of reasonable mouthpiece for their concerns. (who knows maybe there is one and I ma just ignorant of it)
 
beefballs said:
that is a stupid petty thing that would acomplish nothing. Political action is the way to go, look at how effective aipac is. Other professions just work the system better, kind of a shame that physicians are unable to come up with some sort of reasonable mouthpiece for their concerns. (who knows maybe there is one and I ma just ignorant of it)
Click to expand...

There are a few sprinkled here and there. Strong unions arise due to adversity and mistreatment. Physicians are now facing adversity and mistreatment, expect strong unionization soon.
 
aren't their anti-trust laws in place to prevent this, where is one of those legal beagles to answer this if they can. I was under the impression that physicians couldn't unionize (or maybe it was strike) I wish I knew where I read/heard that.
 
beefballs said:
aren't their anti-trust laws in place to prevent this, where is one of those legal beagles to answer this if they can. I was under the impression that physicians couldn't unionize (or maybe it was strike) I wish I knew where I read/heard that.
Click to expand...

Apparently there are physician unions:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refer...ndex.html?query=DOCTORS&field=des&match=exact

http://www.physiciansnews.com/law/497union.html

http://www.physiciansnews.com/cover/899.html

http://www.uapd.com/wiki/uapd/
 
I think the biggest problem with a socialize healthcare system is not lack of financial compensation for physicians....physicians are smart, we can figure out how to keep our income.

The real problem is that, as with any government run project, the goverment's #1 priority is to save itself money. If it can't save money by dropping physician salaries, then where will it turn? I think the most obvious answer is drops in quality of care. You know, cut a corner here and there and you save a bit of money. The problem is that this is a tough thing in medicine. For instance, imagining tools are expensive as is the upkeep, so the government, in order to save money will remove MRI's etc from smaller hospitals and patients will have to go to a larger regional facility to receive one. This may cost patients more money and gas, but the real problem is that if you need an Emergency MRI, there would be serious availability issues. But, hey that's okay to the government too, because if another person happens to kick the bucket, that's one less person dependent on the system.

But the other problem is that quality of care may decline due to increase in mid-level providers because the government won't want to pay to have patients see M.D.'s.

The other problem is the same one that exists for any socialized system and that is, the fact that without a capitalist drive, nothing would really be encouraging to physicians to do their best, or to become better. I realize that many will always care about patient outcomes no matter what, but many won't.
 
tulane06 said:
I think it would be funny if doctors stopped treating trial lawyers, but yeah, I guess that would be unethical.
Click to expand...

Apparently, there are doctor's who won't treat medical trial lawyers. This issue was discussed by a lawyer that works for our school in a lecture last week. He said the ethics are questionable, but it is legal and does happen.

True story: Last spring, just as you droving into St. Louis from Illinois on I64 (one of the busiest roads in the US), there was a Huge billboard that read: DON'T FEED THE TRIAL LAWYERS (excessive medical litigation hurts everyone)
-I just about pulled my car to the side of the road so I could get out and start clapping (standing ovation style).
 
Law2Doc said:
Lawyers aren't a protected class, constitutionally, but there was a highly publicised instance in GA in the 80s where lawyers and their spouses weren't able to find obstetric care which spawned a variety of local legislation in some jurisdictions preventing this kind of discrimination, and resulted in litigation. Apparently this isn't nationally the case though (my bad) -- I found this interesting USA Today article on google on the issue: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-13-med-malpractice_x.htm

At any rate, there are lawyers on both sides of the medmal issue, and an ever increasing pool of dual degree individuals and couples, so I'm not sure a "no lawyer patients" policy is the right one.
Click to expand...

Georgia is also notorious for being plaintiff friendly. In fact, when I was practing law, if my firm was making a claim again a drug company, they made sure to buy the offending drug in the state of georgia so the could get georgia as the jurisdiction (this involves a little complexity with the commerce clause of the constitution) for a class action suit.
 
NEATOMD said:
Apparently, there are doctor's who won't treat medical trial lawyers. This issue was discussed by a lawyer that works for our school in a lecture last week. He said the ethics are questionable, but it is legal and does happen.

True story: Last spring, just as you droving into St. Louis from Illinois on I64 (one of the busiest roads in the US), there was a Huge billboard that read: DON'T FEED THE TRIAL LAWYERS (excessive medical litigation hurts everyone)
-I just about pulled my car to the side of the road so I could get out and start clapping (standing ovation style).
Click to expand...

This may be true based on state law in all cases except emergencies.
 
vtucci said:
This may be true based on state law in all cases except emergencies.
Click to expand...

As I understand the national laws, if, before any treatment was initiated the patient was refused care, then the doctor could not be charged. I believe that in the emergency medicine situation, he/she would be required to stabilize the patient and then to arrange means of transfer care to an "equivalent or higher standard of care" (through transportation or transferring the patient care to another physician on site). But, state laws on this issue may vary.
 
It may not be necessary to unionize-- don't there already exist associations such as IPAs?
 
NEATOMD said:
As I understand the national laws, if, before any treatment was initiated the patient was refused care, then the doctor could not be charged. I believe that in the emergency medicine situation, he/she would be required to stabilize the patient and then to arrange means transfer care to an "equivalent or hight standard of care" (through transportation or transferring the patient care to another physician on site). But, state laws on this issue may vary.
Click to expand...

EMTALA is the rule of thumb for emergency medicine so you need to arrange care at an equivalent or higher standard of care and you can't transfer patients unless they are stabilized.

However, if you think about it, by the time you know what your patient does for a living (unless your practice is up on all the local trial lawyers and there are more of them then grains of sand), you will have already started providing care. Transferring a patient at that point can be a real pain. I have had docs complain that they can't get rid of patients who do not pay their bills (if uninsured or if they exceeded their insurance limits for the year) and other docs won't take them. This is for non-emergencies, family practice type settings.
 
vtucci said:
However, if you think about it, by the time you know what your patient does for a living (unless your practice is up on all the local trial lawyers and there are more of them then grains of sand), you will have already started providing care. Transferring a patient at that point can be a real pain. I have had docs complain that they can't get rid of patients who do not pay their bills (if uninsured or if they exceeded their insurance limits for the year) and other docs won't take them. This is for non-emergencies, family practice type settings.
Click to expand...
LOL, yeah, I actually said that originally in my post. I guess I deleted it or something.

I think we are agreeing. Or are you disagreeing with me? Your post seems to be reaffirming mine (to me).
 
JohnnyOU said:
Yea..it's the doctors fault lol How dare they want to make more than minimum wage after only studying/working 18 hrs a day for 12-17 yrs.

Let's just forget the illegal aliens sucking the life out of our healthcare since they don't pay taxes, don't pay their hospital bills, don't pay into SS, etc...yet expect free healthcare in a country they are legally criminals in. "But they still deserve medical care...waaaa waaaa" YEA...in their own country ie...MEXICO ...

I welcome LEGAL immiigrants 24/7 ... but criminals who think laws are just a pain in the a*s to be skipped around can just go f*ck themselves.

Feel free to argue...blah blah...and we'll go save some trees when you're done.
Click to expand...


Ok, now that your little hateful, xenophobic episode is over you can crawl back to the hole you creeped out of all in the anonimity of good ol' SDN and the internet...
 
See my post on "Can we report illegal aliens"
 
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