"Help me decide" mega thread

[psych.meout]

I would agree with @logicpsych2012 noticing demographics is not racist and noticing a lack of diversity is also not racist, especially since faculty in clinical programs tend to be overwhelmingly white and male. Also, racism is commonly defined as an institutional discrimination against historically oppressed groups. So biased or discriminatory perhaps but operationally not racist by definition of the word since in this country racism doesn't include white men.

Wow. I'm done with this.

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[wtfook]

Wow. I'm done with this.

cool.

 

[inert Psychologist]

So my question is... Am I crazy to choose School B?
My partner has a great job, where he can work anywhere in the country with a salary in the low 6 figures. I figure once I'm done with grad school, our dual income will be relatively nice, and I can pay back loans from School B somewhat quickly.
Is that naive to think?

Or should I go with School A even though I didn't love it just for the money?

You are not crazy, I would go with School B. Environment is crucial.

Isn't this "slightly racist" as well?

I wouldn't say racist, that holds a strong connotation to it, biased observation if anything. Depending on what the professor told logicpsych2012 it could have just been a microaggression as oppose to "slightly racist" and while some may argue what the difference is, I like to differentiate that microaggressions originate from ignorance while racism originates from bigotry. Now there is obviously much more to it than that, but I honestly don't have much experience in those topics of research/training to make credible posts.

So biased or discriminatory perhaps but operationally not racist by definition of the word since in this country racism doesn't include white men.

I agree with the first part but let's be careful alienating "the other side" when discussing topics of this nature. It is absolutely possible to be racist to white males, for example, generalizing white males can't play basket because they can't jump/are worse than black males and actively avoiding recruiting them. Now it's not historically damaging or destroys their culture but we can't take them out of the dialogue if we want to discuss these issues. This statement took psych.meout of the discussion because I'm sure he is thinking "how do I even approach someone with this mindset?"

 

[freeprozac]

I am a Masters in Clinical Psych student, graduating this May. I have a lot of academic research experience and clinical experience of volunteering at an inpatient unit. I applied to 12 programs this year, got 2 interviews but didn't get accepted. (Still waiting to hear back from one program.) I'm not sure what to do next. My Masters now is the kind that doesn't lead to licensure. Should I try to pursue a Masters in Counseling?
Or should I try to get a research-related job (maybe clinical coordinator) and then reapply to the PhD? (And improve my GREs in the meantime)

 

[Amarysso]

I am a Masters in Clinical Psych student, graduating this May. I have a lot of academic research experience and clinical experience of volunteering at an inpatient unit. I applied to 12 programs this year, got 2 interviews but didn't get accepted. (Still waiting to hear back from one program.) I'm not sure what to do next. My Masters now is the kind that doesn't lead to licensure. Should I try to pursue a Masters in Counseling?
Or should I try to get a research-related job (maybe clinical coordinator) and then reapply to the PhD? (And improve my GREs in the meantime)

What is the end goal? Forgetting all the programs and accreditations, what do you want to be doing? How do you want to be dividing your time? Do you want to teach at a university? do you want to primarily work as a counselor/psychologist, do you want to do research or a combo of any?
Getting an LMHC is absolutely a good option, for someone who wants to be in private practice and wants to focus on clinical skills and therapy. There are some very strong M.A programs out there that lead to licensure - with the requisite hours post completion, which depends on what state you want to practice in.

If you are thinking you want to work in academia, then a PhD would probably be your best bet.

 

[freeprozac]

What is the end goal? Forgetting all the programs and accreditations, what do you want to be doing? How do you want to be dividing your time? Do you want to teach at a university? do you want to primarily work as a counselor/psychologist, do you want to do research or a combo of any?
Getting an LMHC is absolutely a good option, for someone who wants to be in private practice and wants to focus on clinical skills and therapy. There are some very strong M.A programs out there that lead to licensure - with the requisite hours post completion, which depends on what state you want to practice in.

If you are thinking you want to work in academia, then a PhD would probably be your best bet.

My main issue with the LMHC is that other international students told me it was difficult to get employment. And you cannot apply for federal jobs, which supposedly limits your search for placements.

Great questions. My main passions are psychodynamic therapies for personality disorders (like TFP) and neuroscientific research related to chronic stress. I'm interested in research and would want to publish but I would absolutely want to have my own practice. I would never go into a PhD program that has no clinical component, for instance. I really wanted to pursue the Clinical PhD but the acceptance process is very strange and unpredictable, it feels like rolling the dice again next year.

 

[DrBakedGoods]

You are not crazy, I would go with School B. Environment is crucial.



I wouldn't say racist, that holds a strong connotation to it, biased observation if anything. Depending on what the professor told logicpsych2012 it could have just been a microaggression as oppose to "slightly racist" and while some may argue what the difference is, I like to differentiate that microaggressions originate from ignorance while racism originates from bigotry. Now there is obviously much more to it than that, but I honestly don't have much experience in those topics of research/training to make credible posts.



I agree with the first part but let's be careful alienating "the other side" when discussing topics of this nature. It is absolutely possible to be racist to white males, for example, generalizing white males can't play basket because they can't jump/are worse than black males and actively avoiding recruiting them. Now it's not historically damaging or destroys their culture but we can't take them out of the dialogue if we want to discuss these issues. This statement took psych.meout of the discussion because I'm sure he is thinking "how do I even approach someone with this mindset?"

I appreciate your post and you're right, it was a microaggression. I thought it would be easier to label it slightly racist for people to understand, but thanks for your clarification. Regardless, it made me feel uncomfortable and a little out of place due to the faculty and students being overwhelmingly white.

School B leaving me 60k in debt would be okay? Obviously if I get into the PhD program, I'll head there, but I just hope I'm not naive in thinking 60k in debt with my partner's salary plus my starting salary would definitely be surmountable relatively quickly.

 

[inert Psychologist]

I appreciate your post and you're right, it was a microaggression. I thought it would be easier to label it slightly racist for people to understand, but thanks for your clarification. Regardless, it made me feel uncomfortable and a little out of place due to the faculty and students being overwhelmingly white.

School B leaving me 60k in debt would be okay? Obviously if I get into the PhD program, I'll head there, but I just hope I'm not naive in thinking 60k in debt with my partner's salary plus my starting salary would definitely be surmountable relatively quickly.

Do you think the POI in school A will be an advocate for you/have your back? You mentioned you got along well but if the program is a so-so fit you really have to weigh the importance of your POI fit/relationship when thinking of school A.

60k is not a lot in the grand scheme of things only if its not due to your partner contributing A LOT to your finances (you should count his contributions as "debt" too when picking between schools). I personally hate debt and always try and discourage people from taking out loans but as long as its below your expected first year salary (avg. 70kish) and the program is a great fit I'd consider it. If your "gut" is telling you School B is right, I wouldn't let 60k debt (but no more than this) discourage your pursuit. As for commutes for externships, if its below 1hr to the location it shouldn't be too bad.

 

[freeprozac]

Hey guys, I need some help!
(My top choice is a PhD, but I'm on the waitlist, so if that doesn't pan out, here are my options)

School A (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure > 95%
- Very well funded, esp for a PsyD. Tuition is <5k a year, plus you get a stipend, provided you teach (I have a college fund specifically for tuition which would cover the entirety of tutition/fees). And yes everyone receives the same funding.
- I *think* it has a very nice name attached (it's not Baylor/Rutgers but I'd consider it top 5 in the country)
- Very small cohorts, no more than 10
- The PI and I got along very well, definitely seems like someone I could work with
- Students (especially in my interest of forensic place very well)
However...
- I really did not like the other faculty members that much.. One even said something slightly racist during a group interview and in general the faculty is overwhelmingly white and male.
-I didn't like the current students that much (idk how much that should influence my decision, but I didn't get great vibes from some of them)
-Overall, I didn't LOVE the program. I'm sure I wouldn't be miserable, but I don't know if I'd be thrilled either

School B (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure >97%
-Okay funded. Some tuition remission, small stipend. There are opportunities for full tuition waivers, but you have to seek them out. Overall I'm looking at 50-60k max in loans to cover everything
-Also I *think* it has an okay name attached to it. There students have placed very very well out of the program
-Small cohorts, no more than 15
-I liked my PI there and there is an additional faculty who also studies my area of interest. Also the PI & additional faculty are very good friends with my undergraduate professor who I am currently doing research with
-Faculty and current students were much more diverse
-I would say it's the stronger program in terms of forensic work
- In general, I thought it was the best fit out of all my programs (even the PhD)
....The ONLY Cons is
- long commute for Prac 3rd and 4th year

So my question is... Am I crazy to choose School B?
My partner has a great job, where he can work anywhere in the country with a salary in the low 6 figures. I figure once I'm done with grad school, our dual income will be relatively nice, and I can pay back loans from School B somewhat quickly.
Is that naive to think?

Or should I go with School A even though I didn't love it just for the money?

May I ask what is School A? Never heard of this type of funding for a PsyD!

 

[Psychisfun43]

I think this could go in here. Is it appropriate to email the director of the program to ask what waitlist spot you are currently in? Got waitlisted at my top choice but I don’t know what spot I hold. I’m thinking about calling them to see what waitlist spot I hold.

 

[DrBakedGoods]

I think this could go in here. Is it appropriate to email the director of the program to ask what waitlist spot you are currently in? Got waitlisted at my top choice but I don’t know what spot I hold. I’m thinking about calling them to see what waitlist spot I hold.

According to APA - schools are supposed to tell you whether you are High, Mid, or Low.. They do not have to tell you an exact spot, but they should tell you at least that.

 

[Psychisfun43]

According to APA - schools are supposed to tell you whether you are High, Mid, or Low.. They do not have to tell you an exact spot, but they should tell you at least that.

Oh wow, I’ll send the email then! Thanks!

 

[psyched!!!]

I recently was accepted to University of San Francisco's Psy.D program and am debating between USF and Wright Institute's Psy.D program (I already had an interview and am waiting to hear back).
USF's program is newer, has WASC accreditation, does not have APA accreditation (it is at the end stages of this process), it's closer to home, and seems like a good environment, would be about a cohort of 13-15 more or less.
Wright's program has is more established, and has APA accreditation, a little further from home, also a good environment (but during the open house, the students and faculty did not all give off a warm "vibe", cohort size is about 20 to 60 (i'm getting mixed answers).
tuition for 5 years is almost the same.

any input would be appreciated.

 

[Expms22]

Hey! Just curious what anybody knows about Pacific University's PsyD program? I just got in and want to know how its perceived or better yet if anyone has gone there and what there experience was like?

Thanks so much in advance!

 

[WisNeuro]

If it's the one in Palo Alto, it's ok, if it's the one in Oregon, less than ok.

 

[Expms22]

If it's the one in Palo Alto, it's ok, if it's the one in Oregon, less than ok.

Its the one in Oregon, what makes it less ok if you don't mind me asking?

 

[PsychedUp313]

Its the one in Oregon, what makes it less ok if you don't mind me asking?

Pacific doesn't have the best reputation. Their APA match rates were only 65% last year and why I declined interviewing there.

 

[WisNeuro]

Its the one in Oregon, what makes it less ok if you don't mind me asking?

Historically terrible match rates, and I haven't seen many good CVs coming out of there.

 

[psych.meout]

Pacific doesn't have the best reputation. Their APA match rates were only 65% last year and why I declined interviewing there.

And their cohorts are huge. How are you supposed to get proper mentoring, have access to the high quality practica of your choice, and get the other essentials of doctoral training when all cohort are >50?

Just one of their cohorts is twice as big as my entire program.

 

[PecanForest]

George Washington
Pros:
- 4 year program
- $30,000 scholarship
- high licensure rate (90%)
- associated with university (more resources, name recognition)
- smaller cohort (25 people/year)

Cons:
- lower APA accredited internship match rate
- DC less preferable to live in than CA
- only psychodynamic orientation (not necessarily bad, but maybe wouldn’t prepare me as well?)

The Wright Institute
Pros:
- high APA accredited internship match rate
- would love to live in SF
- clinics for various orientations

Cons:
- not sure about school reputation
- lower licensure rate
- larger cohort (60 people/year)
- 5 year program

I’m incredibly torn. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[WisNeuro]

The Wright Institute does not have high accredited match rates.

 

[psych.meout]

The Wright Institute
Pros:
- high APA accredited internship match rate

Psy.D. Program Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data | The Wright Institute
As Wisneuro noted, The Wright Institute doesn't have a high match rate. Their rate was 76% last year.

 

[WisNeuro]

As an aside, the bar for accredited match percentage should be much higher in recent years. There have been many more accredited positions opened up within the past 5 years. So, a 76% in this climate would be something equivalent to 50% in say, 2012. Anything lower than a 90% in the current internship climate is really unacceptable given the sheer number of spots that now exist.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

George Washington
Pros:
- 4 year program
- $30,000 scholarship
- high licensure rate (90%)
- associated with university (more resources, name recognition)
- smaller cohort (25 people/year)

Cons:
- lower APA accredited internship match rate
- DC less preferable to live in than CA
- only psychodynamic orientation (not necessarily bad, but maybe wouldn’t prepare me as well?)

The Wright Institute
Pros:
- high APA accredited internship match rate
- would love to live in SF
- clinics for various orientations

Cons:
- not sure about school reputation
- lower licensure rate
- larger cohort (60 people/year)
- 5 year program

I’m incredibly torn. Any help would be appreciated!

Mod Note: Merged in the "help me decide" mega thread

 

[Groupthink]

George Washington
Pros:
- 4 year program
- $30,000 scholarship
- high licensure rate (90%)
- associated with university (more resources, name recognition)
- smaller cohort (25 people/year)

Cons:
- lower APA accredited internship match rate
- DC less preferable to live in than CA
- only psychodynamic orientation (not necessarily bad, but maybe wouldn’t prepare me as well?)

The Wright Institute
Pros:
- high APA accredited internship match rate
- would love to live in SF
- clinics for various orientations

Cons:
- not sure about school reputation
- lower licensure rate
- larger cohort (60 people/year)
- 5 year program

I’m incredibly torn. Any help would be appreciated!

I graduated the GW PsyD program and I have mostly good things to say about it. I matched to an APA-accredited internship and I am now licensed and practicing at a college counseling center, including sitting on an internship committee review panel.

The network the GW program has is quite strong, especially if you are psychodynamic in orientation. It is an APA-accredited program, and therefore they do not teach "only a psychodynamic orientation". Yes, the faculty are strongly dynamic, but you do not lose out on being taught other modalities. Remember that much of the theory learning in graduate school is self-taught, being guided via professors and counseled on practical skills through applied classes and supervision. The reputation of the program is quite good, and they have connections for practicum sites at St Elizabeth's, the local VA, Chestnut Lodge, Howard University, among other opportunities. And again I cannot stress enough that if you are psychodynamic, the network is excellent. When I was training there I met, via faculty, esteemed dynamic researchers McWilliams, Gelso, Safran, Shedler, etc.

The major cons about GW are the cost of living and the cost of the program. Despite having a larger cohort compared to PhD programs, I would argue that GW has the faculty to match the demand. Granted, I'm biased given that I am an alum, but access to faculty and supervision was never a concern for my cohort. Additionally, I was attending at the time the GW program was "on probation" from the APA, and I hear things have only improved since then.

And, TBH, a big guiding principle for me is simply: time. You will have your entire career to learn skills and study. Becoming a psychologist is a lifelong journey. Though it's quite rigorous, doing the program in 4 years was a huge benefit to me as opposed to other programs that took longer. The journey to licensure takes a good 6 to 8 years (4 years for GW program, and 1 to 2 years for postdoc), so I wanted to save as much time as I could.

Send me a private message and I would be happy to speak to you about the program over the phone.

 

[Amarysso]

My main issue with the LMHC is that other international students told me it was difficult to get employment. And you cannot apply for federal jobs, which supposedly limits your search for placements.

Great questions. My main passions are psychodynamic therapies for personality disorders (like TFP) and neuroscientific research related to chronic stress. I'm interested in research and would want to publish but I would absolutely want to have my own practice. I would never go into a PhD program that has no clinical component, for instance. I really wanted to pursue the Clinical PhD but the acceptance process is very strange and unpredictable, it feels like rolling the dice again next year.

I am an international student also - my apologies I had not realized you fell into this category also. Without a doubt, I would not advise the LMHC if you are in this category, especially if you are based in NY. It is virtually impossible to get all your hours, post graduation to qualify for licensure, hence it is waste of time and money.
Id be glad to chat more and offer you some info, as I did make the misinformed mistake of pursuing an M.A myself, and have now gotten accepted into two Clinical PhD programs in the NY area. DM me if you want to discuss further, happy to try and help

 

[Amarysso]

Hi All!
Like everyone else, looking for some advice and input here. I am lucky enough to have two offers - from both Adelphi and LIU Brooklyn - and I am trying to assess how to make this decision.

Both programs are very comparable in price, so my decision will be based on other factors such as the quality of supervision and training, as well as the opportunities 'afforded' by going to that school- particularly in terms of placements and future career paths - including academic pursuits such as tenure-track opportunities.

I would like specific information about the programs if anyone has some, but also, things I should ask or pay attention to before making my decision. I am an international student, so I cannot really go attend a class or meet students - financially that trip would not make sense, and I am finding it hard to make such an important decision based on "paper".

Adelphi requires students to take more courses than those outlined by the APA, and has a curriculum of 130 credits, whereas LIU is a standard 90. But I am aware more does not necessarily mean better.

Any advice on how to assess the strengths of each program and things I should take into consideration would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

 

[calimich]

I recently was accepted to University of San Francisco's Psy.D program and am debating between USF and Wright Institute's Psy.D program...USF's program is newer, has WASC accreditation, does not have APA accreditation, it's closer to home...Wright's program has is more established, and has APA accreditation, a little further from home...

any input would be appreciated.

If these are your only options I'd go with Wright. It's already APA accredited and has a better regional reputation. USF is a good school, however the newness of the program and lack of APA accreditation make it a riskier choice than Wright, imo.

Also, it seems being close to home is important to you. USF and Wright are both in the Bay Area and literally less than 20 miles apart. Please remember you will need to complete an internship, and if you want to be licensed in CA, a postdoc. Trainees usually relocate for internship, and often again for postdoc, sometimes across the country. The Bay, while wonderful and diverse, is saturated with psychology trainees and *everyone* in the country wants to do some training here -- it's highly unlikely you'll be able to complete all aspects training in the Bay.

 

[WisNeuro]

If these are your only options I'd go with Wright. It's already APA accredited and has a better regional reputation. USF is a good school, however the newness of the program and lack of APA accreditation make it a riskier choice than Wright, imo.

Also, it seems being close to home is important to you. USF and Wright are both in the Bay Area and literally less than 20 miles apart. Please remember you will need to complete an internship, and if you want to be licensed in CA, a postdoc. Trainees usually relocate for internship, and often again for postdoc, sometimes across the country. The Bay, while wonderful and diverse, is saturated with psychology trainees and *everyone* in the country wants to do some training here -- it's highly unlikely you'll be able to complete all aspects training in the Bay.

Eh, USF is accredited on contingency, which means that all they gave to do is provide an initial round of distal data and not royally screw up. Wright Inst's rep is bad enough that I'd just choose whichever was cheaper if forced to choose between only those two options.

 

[freeprozac]

Would you guys choose a PhD program with limited funding or would you try again next year, in the hope of getting into a fully funded program?

 

[psych.meout]

Would you guys choose a PhD program with limited funding or would you try again next year, in the hope of getting into a fully funded program?

How limited is "limited?"

I'm relatively conservative when it comes to these things, so I'd err on the side of going for a fully funded program. Grad school is difficult enough without worrying about accruing debt at the same time. I have only a tiny bit of debt from undergrad, so it would be even more important to avoid adding to it if I had substantial debt from undergrad.

 

[WisNeuro]

Me, personally? I would never accept anything that wasn't fully funded. I enjoy being debt free, and the thought of retiring early if I so wish.

 

[freeprozac]

How limited is "limited?"

I'm relatively conservative when it comes to these things, so I'd err on the side of going for a fully funded program. Grad school is difficult enough without worrying about accruing debt at the same time. I have only a tiny bit of debt from undergrad, so it would be even more important to avoid adding to it if I had substantial debt from undergrad.

If they fund a third of the cost.

 

[psych.meout]

If they fund a third of the cost.

Ok, but how much is that 2/3 they aren't funding? How much is that added up across four or five years of grad school? How much is four or five years of worth of living expenses on top of that?

Without even seeing any numbers, I'm guessing that it's easily going to be more than $100,000. This is just untenable based on the salary data for practicing psychologists.

 

[merkadoe]

I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!

 

[merkadoe]

I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!

 

[CatsFan]

I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!

I’m not a current or former student of either program, but a former student of Wright State did tell me that she didn’t think their training in assessment was that great, which might be concerning for someone interested in forensics.

ETA: Although my knowledge of these programs is somewhat limited, I think they’re pretty similar, reputation and outcomes wise. If you are willing to pay the extra 30k and you think you’d be happier at Pacific, I say do what will make you happiest.

 

[merkadoe]

I’m not a current or former student of either program, but a former student of Wright State did tell me that she didn’t think their training in assessment was that great, which might be concerning for someone interested in forensics.

That is good information to know. Thanks for the reply!

 

[freeprozac]

Ok, but how much is that 2/3 they aren't funding? How much is that added up across four or five years of grad school? How much is four or five years of worth of living expenses on top of that?

Without even seeing any numbers, I'm guessing that it's easily going to be more than $100,000. This is just untenable based on the salary data for practicing psychologists.

The tuition is around 45,000, with around 15,000 funded if you spend extra hours doing research for a lab. Plus the cost of insurance, living expenses, etc etc. I also think it's absolutely astonishing.

 

[WisNeuro]

The tuition is around 45,000, with around 15,000 funded if you spend extra hours doing research for a lab. Plus the cost of insurance, living expenses, etc etc. I also think it's absolutely astonishing.

45k a year, or total? If it's total, maybe. If it's per year, there is absolutely no way I would ever consider it. Under any circumstance. Unless they could guarantee that I would somehow make 250k/year in my job.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just to clarify....”paid internships” shouldn’t matter. APA-acred internships are required to pay their interns and students should only apply for APA-acred internships. The vast vast majority of programs don’t even allow students to apply to internships that aren’t APA-acred.

Graduating w/o an APA-acres internship can and does significantly limit the clinician for future jobs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!

Mod Note: Merged into the "help me decide" mega-thread

 

[freeprozac]

45k a year, or total? If it's total, maybe. If it's per year, there is absolutely no way I would ever consider it. Under any circumstance. Unless they could guarantee that I would somehow make 250k/year in my job.

Per year! And not including living expenses such as rent, insurance, books, etc.

 

[psych.meout]

Per year! And not including living expenses such as rent, insurance, books, etc.

If you have to do extra work to knock down just your tuition costs to $30,000/year, it's definitely a bad idea. You're looking at >$100,000 debt from just the tuition and then significantly moore from living expenses, fees, insurance, conference travel, internship apps and interviews, etc.

You should definitely decline the offer and reapply in a year or two. I know that it sucks to have to defer gratification for so long, but, trust me, it will be worth it. You'll be saving literally hundreds of thousands of dollars and likely get better training and career opportunities from it.

 

[WisNeuro]

LIU has a much better accredited match track record. That'd be a big factor for me.

 

[WisNeuro]

Thank you ever so much for your time! Is there anything you think is imperative to ask students or professors? I have enquired about the sites students typically get placed at and it seems to be a good match for my interests. I am just trying to gauge what will set me up well post-graduation.

I'd want to know about practicum placement prior to internships, what's available, how well do students do matching to those? How good is the research match with your POI? Those kinds of things.

 

[freeprozac]

Hi everyone!
Re-posting since I didn't get any responses first time around.

I am lucky enough to have two offers - from both Adelphi and LIU Brooklyn - and I am trying to assess how to make this decision.

Both programs are very comparable in price, so my decision will be based on other factors such as the quality of supervision and training, as well as the opportunities 'afforded' by going to that school- particularly in terms of placements and future career paths.

I would like specific information about the programs if anyone has some, but also, things I should ask or pay attention to before making my decision. I am an international student, so I cannot really go attend a class or meet students - financially that trip would not make sense, and I am finding it hard to make such an important decision based on "paper".

Adelphi requires students to take more courses than those outlined by the APA, and has a curriculum of 130 credits, whereas LIU is a standard 90. But I am aware more does not necessarily mean better.

Any advice on how to assess the strengths of each program and things I should take into consideration would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

LIU was a much better research fit for me, Brooklyn is much nicer than Long Island, I heard Adelphi students complain about the heavy curriculum. I would also consider your faculty members of choice and their areas of interest. You'll be spending a lot of time with them, so it's important that their interests align with yours and will align with yours for a while. Give them a call or shoot them an email, discuss their future directions more.

 

[Bryan91]

I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!

I am a current PsyD candidate at Pacific University. The cohort sizes are amazingly large. However, it is broken down into separate track emphasis areas, where you will get the majority of your training and interactions with faculty. From my perspective, the faculty are very supportive, but only if you reach out to them. You'll receive amazing training at forensic practicums. The debt is ridiculously huge and probably almost impossible to pay off, unless you come from a rich background. Living in the Portland area is amazing and you'll always have something to do, whether it will be going to the beach, mountains, hiking, city life, etc...

 

[WisNeuro]

I am a current PsyD candidate at Pacific University. The cohort sizes are amazingly large. However, it is broken down into separate track emphasis areas, where you will get the majority of your training and interactions with faculty. From my perspective, the faculty are very supportive, but only if you reach out to them. You'll receive amazing training at forensic practicums. The debt is ridiculously huge and probably almost impossible to pay off, unless you come from a rich background. Living in the Portland area is amazing and you'll always have something to do, whether it will be going to the beach, mountains, hiking, city life, etc...

That sounds like a ringing endorsement...

 

[Bryan91]

That sounds like a ringing endorsement...

Yup, its like the comment above stated. If you are okay with taking out loans for the program, the site seems like its more favorable for the potential candidate. For me, I had no idea what it meant to take out a large amount of loans and I will probably have to deal with the repercussions for the remainder of my career, unless I win the lottery.