Health Care Law Stands

[rxlea]

My husband and I used to joke that if they legalize marijuana you will end up seeing packs of Marlboro "Greens" at gas stations.

lol yeah, another opportunity to tax? Regulate what's in the stuff?

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[Indypharm]

lol yeah, another opportunity to tax? Regulate what's in the stuff?

Of course. Grow it industrially for the lowest cost possible, tax the heck out of it if imported. Regulate it "for our safety" to control the market and create the widest profit margin possible. If it is legalized it will be because the government found a way to make money off of it.

 

[pharm B]

Of course. Grow it industrially for the lowest cost possible, tax the heck out of it if imported. Regulate it "for our safety" to control the market and create the widest profit margin possible. If it is legalized it will be because the government found a way to make money off of it.

Better to finally make money legitimately off of it rather than spending so much to "combat" it.

 

[Indypharm]

Better to finally make money legitimately off of it rather than spending so much to "combat" it.

I completely agree, I was just being cynical about the way it will be legalized. I don't believe any real reform happens in this country unless it's going to make someone influential a lot of money. I think legalization would generate a great deal of money (from sales) while also saving an even greater amount. (money saved by no longer "combating").

 

[Digsbe]

Does anyone know if the law decreases Medicare reimbursements for prescriptions? Some of the law seems good to me, and other pieces (like the individual mandate) I do not agree with. I don't like to trust the partisan sources though because one side predicts doom, gloom and granny euthanasia while the other side touts the image that everything will be perfect and that the healthcare reforms are the next best thing since Medicaid paying for all your narcs. Is there any non-biased (or at least minimally biased) review as far as the law relates to pharmacy practice?

 

[pharm B]

Between legal marijuana and healthcare reform, our customer base would jump significantly.

 

[rxlea]

Between legal marijuana and healthcare reform, our customer base would jump significantly.

More jobs

 

[Digsbe]

Just make marijuana like Sudafed and force it to be a behind the counter pharmacy item

More jobs, more money and you get an employee discount on the stuff.

 

[owlegrad]

This has been a busy thread.

Started a foundation that has given away thousands of dollars to various causes, including (most recently) a camp for kids with type 1 diabetes.

That's awesome.

I was recently at a camp for children with type 1 diabetes. The kids were awesome and the experience was great. I got a bit of a taste of having type 1 diabetes for a week. Constant carb counting, monitoring, ect. The children were real troopers though, they almost never griped about having to be tested, even when we made them get out of the pool to do it.

Now getting up/going to bed was a different story...

 

[owlegrad]

Wasn't alcohol getting taxed a major advantage to ending prohibition?

 

[MountainPharmD]

Wasn't alcohol getting taxed a major advantage to ending prohibition?

Yes, but the problem with Marijuanna is the fact it can be grown anywhere by anyone therefore impossible to tax.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Yes, but the problem with Marijuanna is the fact it can be grown anywhere by anyone therefore impossible to tax.

I can see cities/states passing ordinances against growing marijuana for some bogus reason, so their tax revenues would be enhanced (some people might still grow it in their basement, but this would be limited) Besides, people can make their own beer & wine now (and hard liquor in some areas), & roll their own cigarettes nowand how many people do that? It's a lot easier to pick some up at the corner store.

 

[npage148]

Shh, dont tell the govt I'm making my own beer

 

[pharm B]

I can see cities/states passing ordinances against growing marijuana for some bogus reason, so their tax revenues would be enhanced (some people might still grow it in their basement, but this would be limited) Besides, people can make their own beer & wine now (and hard liquor in some areas), & roll their own cigarettes nowand how many people do that? It's a lot easier to pick some up at the corner store.

They pay for the equipment and ingredients, which are taxes. You could sell the seeds in the pharmacy and the equipment in the garden section.

 

[pharm B]

*taxed

 

[BenJammin]

Yes, but the problem with Marijuanna is the fact it can be grown anywhere by anyone therefore impossible to tax.

Alcohol burns a hole in that logic.

 

[StevePerry]

the combat methampetamine act was likely a mistake. It effectively shut down the backwoods chemistry set type of operation in Tennessee and Kentucky, so now instead of the Made in the USA meth, we got imported meth instead.

Exactly -- how about forgetting about all the dirty coal jobs and focusing on the meth production jobs for the next election. Put their skills to use and stimulate the economy with clean energy...

 

[StevePerry]

Duplicate

 

[MountainPharmD]

Alcohol burns a hole in that logic.

No it doesn't. Alcohol is not easy to make, requires specialized equpiment and if done wrong can kill you.

Marijuanna is a weed that can grow in a ditch on the side of the road without any human intervention.

I took that straight off a show on the history channel I watched about the history of illegal drugs. One of the major reasons Marijuanna was made illegall was due to the fact it can be grown anywhere with no special equipment or skill therefore making it nearly impossible to regulate or tax.

 

[npage148]

Brewing Alcohol doesnt require special equipment. You need some fermentable sugar, a bucket and any yeast strain. Distilling it is more complicated but you can make gallons of 6% alcohol cheap and easy

Toxic quantities of methanOl and other poisons only get into homemade alcohol when added to cut it

 

[Pharmavixen]

No it doesn't. Alcohol is not easy to make, requires specialized equpiment and if done wrong can kill you.

Marijuanna is a weed that can grow in a ditch on the side of the road without any human intervention.

I took that straight off a show on the history channel I watched about the history of illegal drugs. One of the major reasons Marijuanna was made illegall was due to the fact it can be grown anywhere with no special equipment or skill therefore making it nearly impossible to regulate or tax.

Not sure that's *quite* true. I've never grown the stuff myself, but I know folks who have, and while it's easy to grow, it's hard to grow stuff with decent quality, and takes a fair investment of time and money. You don't get a high THC content from something growing in a ditch by the interstate.

Just like there's millions of people who make their own beer and wine, but most of us prefer commercially-made beer and wine to, say, uncle Don's home-brewed pilsner and apricot chardonnay, there'd totally be a market for commercially-grown weed with a consist THC content.

I've heard various theories about why weed was made illegal. Regardless of the root causes, one of the reasons it stays illegal is the massive investment in law enforcement infrastructure. People make their careers and reputations from the Drug War. And there was the failure of Proposition 19 in Cali, which was defeated in part due to votes from cannabis growers and sellers, who would see their prices drop and taxes rise if their product was legalized.

If you haven't seen it, I suggest the movie "Traffic" by Stephen Soderbergh (2000), that gets into what I'm saying here. And it's a great movie.

 

[StevePerry]

Not sure that's *quite* true. I've never grown the stuff myself, but I know folks who have, and while it's easy to grow, it's hard to grow stuff with decent quality, and takes a fair investment of time and money. You don't get a high THC content from something growing in a ditch by the interstate.

Just like there's millions of people who make their own beer and wine, but most of us prefer commercially-made beer and wine to, say, uncle Don's home-brewed pilsner and apricot chardonnay, there'd totally be a market for commercially-grown weed with a consist THC content.

I've heard various theories about why weed was made illegal. Regardless of the root causes, one of the reasons it stays illegal is the massive investment in law enforcement infrastructure. People make their careers and reputations from the Drug War. And there was the failure of Proposition 19 in Cali, which was defeated in part due to votes from cannabis growers and sellers, who would see their prices drop and taxes rise if their product was legalized.

If you haven't seen it, I suggest the movie "Traffic" by Stephen Soderbergh (2000), that gets into what I'm saying here. And it's a great movie.

Great movie... I think Bill Hicks summarized the "War on Drugs" the best:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-y-uamSiE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[PharmDstudent]

the combat methampetamine act was likely a mistake. It effectively shut down the backwoods chemistry set type of operation in Tennessee and Kentucky, so now instead of the Made in the USA meth, we got imported meth instead.

A mistake? No way, meth labs are explosive!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

A mistake? No way, meth labs are explosive!

Not to mention the cost of cleanup, danger to law enforcement, etc.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Not to mention the cost of cleanup, danger to law enforcement, etc.

Tell that to the mexican cartels that are now invading Texas. Texans near the border are hiding in their homes because people are getting kill execution style on their farm or woods. I think they would much rather have the Tennessee types that blow themselves up instead.

 

[awval999]

Tell that to the mexican cartels that are now invading Texas. Texans near the border are hiding in their homes because people are getting kill execution style on their farm or woods. I think they would much rather have the Tennessee types that blow themselves up instead.

Source please?

 

[rxlea]

Source please?

You live in a border state?

 

[xiphoid2010]

You live in a border state?

Texas all day long.

Luckily I'm still several hours from the border, but it's bad down there near the border. Other than the killing in the news, I just watched a documentary on meth, how Mexico has taken over as the main source now that backwoods operation has become more difficult.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Tell that to the mexican cartels that are now invading Texas. Texans near the border are hiding in their homes because people are getting kill execution style on their farm or woods. I think they would much rather have the Tennessee types that blow themselves up instead.

Um, you realize people cook meth in places other than the backwoods, right? Urban meth labs that take out half of a city block harm more than just the cookers. Innocent people often die in meth lab accidents. Including children. I am not saying that your problems in Texas aren't serious, just pointing out that meth labs are in fact dangerous and are not in any way "preferred" over any other type of illegal activity.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Um, you realize people cook meth in places other than the backwoods, right? Urban meth labs that take out half of a city block harm more than just the cookers. Innocent people often die in meth lab accidents. Including children. I am not saying that your problems in Texas aren't serious, just pointing out that meth labs are in fact dangerous and are not in any way "preferred" over any other type of illegal activity.

I know what you are saying, but given that the drug abuse problem is here to stay either way, then I rather have unorganized crime than organized crime, accidental killing than organized killing, criminals that we can prosecute than ones protected by a foreign government, drug money that goes from one American to another than to a foreign drug cartel that then use it to finance war against us.

 

[rxlea]

Source please?

Texas all day long.

Luckily I'm still several hours from the border, but it's bad down there near the border. Other than the killing in the news, I just watched a documentary on meth, how Mexico has taken over as the main source now that backwoods operation has become more difficult.

Yeah, I was referring to the post above asking about a source. I'm pretty sure that anyone who lives near a border doesn't need some sort of citation to support this kind of statement. With that said, home made meth labs are terrible too. Doesn't matter what drug....the people pay with their lives and I'm not just talking about dying. Many people screw up their lives and their children's lives. It's terrible.

I will agree to your point about the danger of organized crime. They don't even have a place to bury all the bodies. And some of these people are completely innocent. It's a war zone down here that people don't like to openly talk about.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I know what you are saying, but given that the drug abuse problem is here to stay either way, then I rather have unorganized crime than organized crime, accidental killing than organized killing, criminals that we can prosecute than ones protected by a foreign government, drug money that goes from one American to another than to a foreign drug cartel that then use it to finance war against us.

How is meth an unorganized crime? If I sell *one* box of pseudoephedrine to a suspected addict or drug dealer, several more people will come in and try to buy it if I allow them. They also steal the supplies to make it in the store, too.

Yeah, I was referring to the post above asking about a source. I'm pretty sure that anyone who lives near a border doesn't need some sort of citation to support this kind of statement. With that said, home made meth labs are terrible too. Doesn't matter what drug....the people pay with their lives and I'm not just talking about dying. Many people screw up their lives and their children's lives. It's terrible.

I will agree to your point about the danger of organized crime. They don't even have a place to bury all the bodies. And some of these people are completely innocent. It's a war zone down here that people don't like to openly talk about.

Meth addicts only have a 5-6 year lifespan, so we'll need to bury them, too.

 

[rxlea]

Meth addicts only have a 5-6 year lifespan, so we'll need to bury them, too.

do 100 meth heads die in one week in one town (barring an explosion of course) all killed execution style with their hands tied and their head in the street?

This is why people don't talk about it. The average person really doesn't understand the impact of the cartels. Or they just argue for the sake of arguing like you're doing.

I don't know where you live lady but I know that gun fights in the streets are no joke. It happens in our ghettos in big cities too but unless you're talking mafia, they don't have the kind of power and money the cartels do.

 

[joetrisman]

do 100 meth heads die in one week in one town (barring an explosion of course) all killed execution style with their hands tied and their head in the street?

This is why people don't talk about it. The average person really doesn't understand the impact of the cartels. Or they just argue for the sake of arguing like you're doing.

I don't know where you live lady but I know that gun fights in the streets are no joke. It happens in our ghettos in big cities too but unless you're talking mafia, they don't have the kind of power and money the cartels do.

Harrowing!

I'm sorry Lea, I couldn't help myself But seriously, that sucks.

 

[pharm B]

You know this really is stimulating some thoughts in my mind now. lol...

If ALL HIV and AIDS patients die today and everyone else left are HIV negative does that mean the disease is now GONE forever?

If ALL mentally ******ed people die today and no longer reproduce more of themselves and ONLY people with IQ of above 130 have children does that mean the world will be full of smart people from now on and NO more mentally ******ed people will exist on earth?

Some food for thought here...it would be really cool if only smart and good looking people have children then the world will be full of only bright people....

Interesting convo guys!

I'm just catching up on on the earlier parts of this thread.

And...

 

[xiphoid2010]

do 100 meth heads die in one week in one town (barring an explosion of course) all killed execution style with their hands tied and their head in the street?

This is why people don't talk about it. The average person really doesn't understand the impact of the cartels. Or they just argue for the sake of arguing like you're doing.

I don't know where you live lady but I know that gun fights in the streets are no joke. It happens in our ghettos in big cities too but unless you're talking mafia, they don't have the kind of power and money the cartels do.

I don't have much expectations for non-border stater to understand the full gravity of the situation. They don't know these drug cartel are practically para-military, Los Zetas cartel are former mexican special forces for crying out loud.

 

[rxlea]

Harrowing!

I'm sorry Lea, I couldn't help myself But seriously, that sucks.

Yeah, Tucson isn't bad within the city but you venture outside toward the south and violence ramps up. I have family/friends in Tubac and Nogales. It's rough down there. Really rough.

 

[StevePerry]

I don't have much expectations for non-border stater to understand the full gravity of the situation. They don't know these drug cartel are practically para-military, Los Zetas cartel are former mexican special forces for crying out loud.

Exactly! People don't really understand this. The only way to solve the problem completely, which is also a pretty simple way to solve the problem, would be to, oh I don't know, just legalize it. That would solve the crime near the border and the risk of **** getting blown up by dip****s over here. Pretty ****ing simple solution. I mean it is already manufacturered legitimately for crying out loud -- why not stimulate legitimate American business further. The fact something like this isn't pursued shows either how far the population in this country has their heads up their asses, how much unnecessary government bureaucracy exists and how entrenched it is, and/or just how far and high the cartels' reach really extends. Either way it is a complete joke as it is obvious that no one really wants to apply basic common sense in solving it.

 

[rxlea]

Exactly! People don't really understand this. The only way to solve the problem completely, which is also a pretty simple way to solve the problem, would be to, oh I don't know, just legalize it. That would solve the crime near the border and the risk of **** getting blown up by dip****s over here. Pretty ****ing simple solution. I mean it is already manufacturered legitimately for crying out loud -- why not stimulate legitimate American business further. The fact something like this isn't pursued shows either how far the population in this country has their heads up their asses, how much unnecessary government bureaucracy exists and how entrenched it is, and/or just how far and high the cartels' reach really extends. Either way it is a complete joke as it is obvious that no one really wants to apply basic common sense in solving it.

I agree that marijuana could be a cash cow for the US. Other drugs (like crack cocaine) also come through Mexico. But I don't think it's smart to legalize everything. How do we measure how dangerous one drug is over the other?

 

[rxlea]

So the latest statistic is an estimated 50,000 people killed due to drug cartel violence in last six years (since Calderon became president) although I suspect it's probably a bit more. The new president-elect states that the cartels won't be his number one priority. We'll see what happens. Presently, people are afraid to go to certain parts of the city/state on even the US side...places they used to be able to frequent. The Mexican economy is not doing well and until that issue is addressed, we will continue to see immigrants coming across the border, even in 100+ degree heat, smuggled across by coyotes, and people getting involved in this "drug war" because it pays well.

 

[PharmDstudent]

do 100 meth heads die in one week in one town (barring an explosion of course) all killed execution style with their hands tied and their head in the street?

This is why people don't talk about it. The average person really doesn't understand the impact of the cartels. Or they just argue for the sake of arguing like you're doing.

I don't know where you live lady but I know that gun fights in the streets are no joke. It happens in our ghettos in big cities too but unless you're talking mafia, they don't have the kind of power and money the cartels do.

Every single night that I work I have the pleasure of interacting with thieving meth addicts, and since I'm on the border to the harrowing border that you and Xiphoid speak of, I get to deal with the prescription drug addicts coming out of Texas, too.

You're welcome to argue... but whenever you're the pharmacist, then we'll talk.

 

[StevePerry]

I agree that marijuana could be a cash cow for the US. Other drugs (like crack cocaine) also come through Mexico. But I don't think it's smart to legalize everything. How do we measure how dangerous one drug is over the other?

I think looking at it realistically the only solution would be to completely legalize everything instead of trying to draw a bull**** arbitrary line (like we do with alcohol now), not to mention the fact it would be more in line with embracing personal liberty and letting people make their own choices in life. Plus it goes with natural selection... if you are stupid enough to get hooked on some **** drug like meth, well, you'll pay the ****ing consequences. Keep it cheap and readily available so the negative externalities stemming from usage/addiction like crime and bolstering cartels and whatnot are minimal.

I think the rhetorical question "If heroin were legal, how many people in this room would do it?" from the Republican debates framed the argument perfectly.

 

[rxlea]

Every single night that I work I have the pleasure of interacting with thieving meth addicts, and since I'm on the border to the harrowing border that you and Xiphoid speak of, I get to deal with the prescription drug addicts coming out of Texas, too.

You're welcome to argue... but whenever you're the pharmacist, then we'll talk.

No thanks. It gets boring

 

[rxlea]

I think looking at it realistically the only solution would be to completely legalize everything instead of trying to draw a bull**** arbitrary line (like we do with alcohol now), not to mention the fact it would be more in line with embracing personal liberty and letting people make their own choices in life. Plus it goes with natural selection... if you are stupid enough to get hooked on some **** drug like meth, well, you'll pay the ****ing consequences. Keep it cheap and readily available so the negative externalities stemming from usage/addiction like crime and bolstering cartels and whatnot are minimal.

I think the rhetorical question "If heroin were legal, how many people in this room would do it?" from the Republican debates framed the argument perfectly.

Interesting perspective. But what about the difference in numbers of people getting hooked taking into account income and minority status?

EDIT: I don't think we provide enough quality mental health care. There is also not much in the way of substance abuse treatment. Especially here in Arizona. I think that's something that really needs to happen.

Our state Medicaid only funds generic psychotropics so schizophrenics and the like are stuck with first gen, risperdal, and zyprexa.

 

[StevePerry]

Interesting perspective. But what about the difference in numbers of people getting hooked taking into account income and minority status?

EDIT: I don't think we provide enough quality mental health care. There is also not much in the way of substance abuse treatment. Especially here in Arizona. I think that's something that really needs to happen.

Our state Medicaid only funds generic psychotropics so schizophrenics and the like are stuck with first gen, risperdal, and zyprexa.

I think now the system and drug war (including the history of why many of the drugs were made illegal) is incredibly racist / classist. I know you come from the left -- Chomsky does an excellent job outlining the drug war from this perspective... he details it much better in his writings, but here's a clip where he highlights these points nicely...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-JX0yXDlh8[/YOUTUBE]

Agreed on the mental health care given the current system...

 

[genesis09]

I
Our state Medicaid only funds generic psychotropics so schizophrenics and the like are stuck with first gen, risperdal, and zyprexa.

Seroquel and Geodon have also recently went generic. Pretty much only Vimpat, Saphris and Abilify are not generically available.

 

[rxlea]

Seroquel and Geodon have also recently went generic. Pretty much only Vimpat, Saphris and Abilify are not generically available.

Thank goodness! I haven't kept track recently. It'll take a bit before AHCCCS will put it on the formulary...hopefully sooner than later.

 

[rxlea]

I think now the system and drug war (including the history of why many of the drugs were made illegal) is incredibly racist / classist. I know you come from the left -- Chomsky does an excellent job outlining the drug war from this perspective... he details it much better in his writings, but here's a clip where he highlights these points nicely...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-JX0yXDlh8[/YOUTUBE]

Agreed on the mental health care given the current system...

Thanks! I'll check it out.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Seroquel and Geodon have also recently went generic. Pretty much only Vimpat, Saphris and Abilify are not generically available.

Errh, since when did vimpat became an antipsychotic? It's an adjunct AED.

The ones that are not generic are latuda, inviga and abilify. Of these I think only abilify and latuda has significant clinical value.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I agree that marijuana could be a cash cow for the US. Other drugs (like crack cocaine) also come through Mexico. But I don't think it's smart to legalize everything. How do we measure how dangerous one drug is over the other?

The problem is, making drugs illegal does nothing to stop people from using illegal drugs (illegal drugs can't even be kept ouf of federal prisons!) All it does is waste billions of dollars in resources trying to stop illegal drugs, gives rise to enormous crime cartels whose violence is decimating inner cities (and Mexico), and destroys lives & families as people are sentenced to prison for simple drug possession/usage.

Look at tobacco, perfectly legal, yet the majority of people don't smoke. People have quit smoking because of education on the health risks, affordable treatment options for addiction, the inconvience of being limited to where they can smoke, and the cost of smoking due to ever increasing taxes on cigarettes. People don't have their lives & families being ruined for being sent to prison for smoking a cigarette, we don't see rival gangs killing each other & innocent bystanders over cigarette territory, and people aren't afraid to ask their dr or pharmacist about available treatments for their addiction hence they are more likely to get treatment & stop smoking.

Does it make alot more sense to handle ALL drugs in this manner? People aren't going to suddenly start using drugs just because they are legal (anymore than people start smoking just because its legal.) Spend the billions of dollars being used to arrest & imprision prison people on education & treatment options. From a human cost standpoint, this makes much, much, much more sense then the current futile efforts that end with over 50% of the US prison population being locked up for non-violent drug offenses.