Having a kid during the last year of pharm school...

[All4MyDaughter]

WOW I agree with you 150% and I am a woman that might want to have a child in the future...Is that werid? LOL...

I think having a child and not being able to afford it and therefore needing the government to pay for it etc. IS THE SAME as me going out right now and buying a 100K car and not being able to afford that and therefore expecting the government to help me out with that too!

Basically what we are saying is its YOUR LIFE, you choose to do whatever you want with it, but PLEASE take 120% responsibilty for your action. Please please please DO NOT do something and expect society or other people to clean up your mess. This wasn't directed at YOU, it is to anyone that think they can do whatever they want and OTHER PEOPLE should take full responsibility for their actions.

Wow. How did this somehow become about people having children they can't afford? The OP was asking if we thought having a child during the last year of pharmacy school was doable. She wasn't asking about government assistance. I think you have this thread confused with the Medicaid thread.

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[SHC1984]

Wow. How did this somehow become about people having children they can't afford? The OP was asking if we thought having a child during the last year of pharmacy school was doable. She wasn't asking about government assistance. I think you have this thread confused with the Medicaid thread.

I don't mean she was trying to get medicaid or anything. I am just hinting that if she feels she is 100% money secured right now and would need NO help in that area, plus she has a lot of time on her hands, and feel that she is ready to take 100% responsibilty for the child. Then she should have the child. If not, then it's not a good time. Is what I mean.

There really is no point trying to reason with her. She's already proven that she's totally unwilling to listen to anyone else's viewpoint or accept the fact that she isn't 100% knowledgable about things she's never experienced or dealt with personally. If she wants to wait for everything in life to be PERFECT, let her wait.

I got her post AFTER I made that post. Yes, sometimes birth control fails...but if that was the case and I knew I was 100% NOT ready to have a child at the time...I would choose to have an abortion. This is getting off topic though...so I will leave it at that.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

He's just saying they can't have their cake and eat it, too. If a woman wants to be career oriented, cool. If they want to be family oriented, cool. But they shouldn't whine and insist that they deserve special treatment when people who are 100% career oriented don't want to pick up their slack for the manifestations of an elective medical condition.

Someone just merge this with the baby-argument thread from a few years ago. All of this was expanded and debated in detail.

This thread was much more helpful yesterday. Today, the same old arguments I read about how awful pregnant women/parents are coming back in full force.

So you're saying all women who become pharmacist should not become mothers, too? I think all of the women I work with as pharmacists have children, and they haven't expected special treatment. They've taken maternity leave, but so have the men who've had children. And they're rarely out due to a sick kid or an event or anything. Some work part time, but they chose that to make their family life better and still have a productive career life, too.

If I do get pregnant, I plan on working just as hard as if I'm not. I only take sick time from work now when I literally can't stand up or I know I'm very contagious (and I do have a health condition now where I feel crappy sometimes. I take medicine and suck it up). I know the pharmacy works better with a full staff and my co-workers are depending on me. My family seems to have relatively easy pregnancies; if I were at high-risk, I'd not even think about having a kid during my fourth year. I'd certainly not use it as an excuse. And I'm considering having a kid my fourth year so I don't have to take time off right after starting a new job, which isn't fair to my co-workers either. My husband and I have already discussed that he has the more flexible job, so he'll most likely be taking time off for sick kids/doctor's appointments, at least when they're unplanned.

As for maternity leave, women need time to heal after childbirth and C-sections. And most childcare places won't even take children below a certain age. Some friends get around this by having family members come and help out (my one friend went back after a month because her mother came to town), but we're not all that lucky to have parents we can trust and are around to help.

 

[PharmDstudent]

There really is no point trying to reason with her. She's already proven that she's totally unwilling to listen to anyone else's viewpoint or accept the fact that she isn't 100% knowledgable about things she's never experienced or dealt with personally. If she wants to wait for everything in life to be PERFECT, let her wait.

And how would you know what I've experienced Mrs. Know It All? *scratches head*
I've had a false positive pregnancy test, had to use plan B, helped my brother, who has a 3 year old, out when he couldn't pay his bills. It's almost disgusting what you assume!

 

[rph3664]

I have no problem with having babies and most likely want a child when the time is PERFECT. However, whats annoying to me is people that want children but ARE NOT ready for them, so they expect OTHER PEOPLE to help out and give them special treatment b/c they have children.


(snipped)


In short, have a child if you are 100% ready to take the responsbility for everything. If you are not 100% ready, then wait for the time when you are.

Yeah, there was a pharmacist at my last job whose wife was pregnant, and he really wasn't planning to take care of the baby on any level, not even financially because after all, she had a job too. There was a lot of chatter in the department about this, and most of it was along the lines of "If this guy doesn't step up to the plate, the marriage won't last a year". He did seem to take some marginal interest in this baby, but referred to her as "it". She was about 6 months old when I left.

 

[rph3664]

So you're saying all women who become pharmacist should not become mothers, too? I think all of the women I work with as pharmacists have children, and they haven't expected special treatment. They've taken maternity leave, but so have the men who've had children. And they're rarely out due to a sick kid or an event or anything. Some work part time, but they chose that to make their family life better and still have a productive career life, too.

Several years ago, my last employer hired a pharmacist who had two young children, and when she realized we weren't going to change all our policies to accommodate her and that she was going to work evenings and weekends when they scheduled her and not just when it was convenient for her, quit without notice. She had worked there 2 weeks.

I knew she was trouble when she said that even after her first child was born while she was in school and she never had time to study, she still carried a 4.0 GPA. She was also convinced that her kids, who were then preschoolers, had ADHD, and maybe they did, but that she had taken them to multiple doctors until she found one who would write prescriptions without examining them. I decided she was a nutjob, and was not the only one. I once worked with a male pharmacist who also did that with his kids, and he had a very lengthy history of walking out on jobs without giving notice.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

And how would you know what I've experienced Mrs. Know It All? *scratches head*
I've had a false positive pregnancy test, had to use plan B, helped my brother, who has a 3 year old, out when he couldn't pay his bills. It's almost disgusting what you assume!

Um, that wasn't directed at you. I was responding to Farscapegirl, who was directing her remarks at SHC. But thanks for resorting to name calling AND overreacting!

 

[mustang sally]

All4MyDaughter - I am just curious what your experiences have been like interviewing for residencies while pregnant. Now I know they can't legally discriminate against you, but do you feel like it's been a problem at all? I know it hasn't been match day yet, but I was just wondering. By the way, congratulations on your pregnancy!

I also would just like to point out to everyone in this thread that no one is ever 100% prepared to have a child and that the majority of people are not 100% financially secure or whatever for having kids. Most people go on to be pretty good parents, regardless. Also it is not some easy thing to have a baby just because you are out of school. Having kids is hard no matter what the circumstances are. I think all the haters in this thread are the ones who are childless, whether by choice or otherwise.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

All4MyDaughter - I am just curious what your experiences have been like interviewing for residencies while pregnant. Now I know they can't legally discriminate against you, but do you feel like it's been a problem at all? I know it hasn't been match day yet, but I was just wondering. By the way, congratulations on your pregnancy!

I also would just like to point out to everyone in this thread that no one is ever 100% prepared to have a child and that the majority of people are not 100% financially secure or whatever for having kids. Most people go on to be pretty good parents, regardless. Also it is not some easy thing to have a baby just because you are out of school. Having kids is hard no matter what the circumstances are. I think all the haters in this thread are the ones who are childless, whether by choice or otherwise.

No one is ever 100% ready. It's impossible to be. Anyone who thinks they can be 100% ready or that they will get to a place in life where everything is perfect just doesn't know what they are talking about.

As far as interviewing for residency, I haven't really had any problems. It's obvious that I'm pregnant (by my appearance and by some physical limitations that I currently have) so pretty much everyone knows. I wouldn't hide it anyway. I wouldn't want to work at a place that isn't family friendly or that wouldn't work with employees who were having any sort of personal problems (personal illness, caring for elderly parents, sick kids, etc). I just don't need to be at that kind of place. A few places have volunteered up front (because my due date is in mid-May) that if needed, I will be able to start the residency late (and complete it late, of course).

I suppose they could all be lying through their teeth and planning not to rank me, but again... any organization that would behave like that isn't the right place for me anyway.

I'm not kidding myself. I know that pregnancy and parental issues are not convenient for employers and that accomodations have to be me made. I just believe that prudent, thoughtful employers recognize that for the right candidates (male or female) it's worth making those types of accomodations. Same goes for employees with chronic illnesses or disabilities. If they are outstanding team members, it's worth making allowances to have them as part of your team.

I hope that helps!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

No, I don't really care. I usually don't listen when people start whining about stuff. I was responding to the allegation that married people or people with children somehow complain more than the general public. My point was that everyone complains about something.

And now you're complaining about a person pointing out that you don't like the entire concept of complaining. Jeeeeez....

 

[All4MyDaughter]

And now you're complaining about a person pointing out that you don't like the entire concept of complaining. Jeeeeez....

Mostly I'm just complaining about YOU!!! But that is totally justified.

 

[njac]

Yes, as someone without kids I am annoyed when those with kids require more time off, etc. But if that's what they want to do, I'll get overtime while they do it.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Yes, as someone without kids I am annoyed when those with kids require more time off, etc. But if that's what they want to do, I'll get overtime while they do it.

Hopefully those same people would be understanding if you ever had to take time off, whether for a personal illness or a family member being ill.

And, for those of you who don't want children, it's really rude and wrong for people to assume that you're some awful person because you don't want children. And while people's opinions change over time because maybe their lives change where children seem more feasible/more fun, that doesn't mean everyone will want children later in life, either. My friend with the colicky baby never wants another child, and I don't think she'll change her mind. I have other friends who may make great 'aunts' or 'uncles' but don't want the pressure of having one of their own. Still others avoid children like the plague. I understand, because I don't always want to be drooled on either, and I appreciate hanging out with friends when their children aren't present sometimes, as much as I love their kids.

It's great to live in a time where you can make the choice much more easily to not have children or when to have children. Our society is moving towards being more acceptable of those not having kids, and I think we'll have a much better society because of it. Kids that are wanted and come at a better time in their parents' lives usually (but not always!) turn out to be better adults.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This thread was much more helpful yesterday. Today, the same old arguments I read about how awful pregnant women/parents are coming back in full force.

So you're saying all women who become pharmacist should not become mothers, too? I think all of the women I work with as pharmacists have children, and they haven't expected special treatment. They've taken maternity leave, but so have the men who've had children.
............
a bunch of crap I don't care about...and, I won't lie, I didn't actually read...

This always gets twisted into some bull**** feminist "whoa are us, we are so oppressed" whine fest. It just so happens that this affects only women physically. If men had babies, I wouldn't give a **** about them and their delusional outlook on the universe, either.

If anything, the underlying issue is that I just find children annoying. Hell, I used to look at myself in the mirror...7 years old...I think to myself, "God damn, you are annoying as hell...hurry the hell up and get older." And as if to stab me in the eye, fate has made me look like I'm 17 years old at age 27. Haha...you are so clever, fate...you freaking a-hole.

But that I intrinsically can't stand children is also irrelevant.

And all I'm saying is that people who have children don't deserve to have as wide open of career considerations as those who do not miss 3 months of work for an elective medical procedure. Granted, it may be viewed as slightly more "important" of an event to those who have children, but to the rest of us...we don't particularly give a damn...all we know is that it effing sucks picking up your slack. I just see it as a lame, protected elective excuse to get out of three months of work. That's just how it is. And as a person electing to undergo such a process, you are just going to have to accept the fact that what you are doing is annoying to everyone else. Not to mention selfish, being that there are literally thousands upon thousands of children in this country living in foster care that need a home already...there is no need for you to think you are special and plop out another mouth for the world to feed...but that's another discussion. Anyway...like I said...you are just going to have to accept the fact that you are annoying. That's really all it boils down to. No, people won't restrict your ability to needlessly contribute to overpopulation...no, we won't fire you for having a baby...but, dammit, we reserve the right to freaking bitch about you and your god damned three month vacation that we don't get. And you will not take that from us. It's out right to complain about you and your annoying breeding.

Now don't get me wrong...if babies poofed into existence magically, I would obviously COMPLETELY understand the need for maternity leave, etc, etc. Let's say that whole Jesus story actually happened - a'ight - Mary totally gets maternity leave for that ****. Not on her. But that isn't the case with everyone else. You are electing to do this to yourself.

And, further, why is having a baby so freaking special that it needs some sort of protection? It's not like it takes any degree of skill to accomplish. Have you seen the Maury Povich Show? Annnnnnybody can have a child. But from my perspective...you're dang tootin' I bloody had better get a leg up in the company for three extra months of work experience. I have to show up to work for those three months with some temp worker that has no idea WTF they are doing and essentially doing the work of two people because some couple decided that they need to add to the 6 billion other humans that exist on this planet. The considerations of what this might do to your workplace isn't even considered. Not to mention that every time I go to freaking Denny's I have to deal with crying babies. In fact, now that I'm thinking and blathering, there should be a ****ing baby tax. And the proceeds should be given to everyone else in society that has to put up with you snug ****s that think you have the right to annoy everyone else by taking a free 3 month vacation and committing noise pollution via the proxy of offspring.

Just give the rest of us like $5,000 a year and we'll be square.

The only good thing that comes from people having babies is that some day they will pay my social security and medicare. So at least they will be somewhat useful...

 

[R2pharmD2]

If anything, the underlying issue is that I just find children annoying. Hell, I used to look at myself in the mirror...7 years old...I think to myself, "God damn, you are annoying as hell...hurry the hell up and get older." And as if to stab me in the eye, fate has made me look like I'm 17 years old at age 27. Haha...you are so clever, fate...you freaking a-hole.

That's some funny **** right there.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Um, that wasn't directed at you. I was responding to Farscapegirl, who was directing her remarks at SHC. But thanks for resorting to name calling AND overreacting!

I thought you were replying to Farscape's reply of what I had replied. Six degrees of separation... :tease:
But my comment about the test, plan B, and handing cash over to my brother are no less sincere. And who knows what SHC84 has been through?

 

[PharmDstudent]

The only reason why I have a part-time job is because of maternity leave. I've been training and will be the one filling in.

 

[SHC1984]

This always gets twisted into some bull**** feminist "whoa are us, we are so oppressed" whine fest. It just so happens that this affects only women physically. If men had babies, I wouldn't give a **** about them and their delusional outlook on the universe, either.

If anything, the underlying issue is that I just find children annoying. Hell, I used to look at myself in the mirror...7 years old...I think to myself, "God damn, you are annoying as hell...hurry the hell up and get older." And as if to stab me in the eye, fate has made me look like I'm 17 years old at age 27. Haha...you are so clever, fate...you freaking a-hole.

But that I intrinsically can't stand children is also irrelevant.

And all I'm saying is that people who have children don't deserve to have as wide open of career considerations as those who do not miss 3 months of work for an elective medical procedure. Granted, it may be viewed as slightly more "important" of an event to those who have children, but to the rest of us...we don't particularly give a damn...all we know is that it effing sucks picking up your slack. I just see it as a lame, protected elective excuse to get out of three months of work. That's just how it is. And as a person electing to undergo such a process, you are just going to have to accept the fact that what you are doing is annoying to everyone else. Not to mention selfish, being that there are literally thousands upon thousands of children in this country living in foster care that need a home already...there is no need for you to think you are special and plop out another mouth for the world to feed...but that's another discussion. Anyway...like I said...you are just going to have to accept the fact that you are annoying. That's really all it boils down to. No, people won't restrict your ability to needlessly contribute to overpopulation...no, we won't fire you for having a baby...but, dammit, we reserve the right to freaking bitch about you and your god damned three month vacation that we don't get. And you will not take that from us. It's out right to complain about you and your annoying breeding.

Now don't get me wrong...if babies poofed into existence magically, I would obviously COMPLETELY understand the need for maternity leave, etc, etc. Let's say that whole Jesus story actually happened - a'ight - Mary totally gets maternity leave for that ****. Not on her. But that isn't the case with everyone else. You are electing to do this to yourself.

And, further, why is having a baby so freaking special that it needs some sort of protection? It's not like it takes any degree of skill to accomplish. Have you seen the Maury Povich Show? Annnnnnybody can have a child. But from my perspective...you're dang tootin' I bloody had better get a leg up in the company for three extra months of work experience. I have to show up to work for those three months with some temp worker that has no idea WTF they are doing and essentially doing the work of two people because some couple decided that they need to add to the 6 billion other humans that exist on this planet. The considerations of what this might do to your workplace isn't even considered. Not to mention that every time I go to freaking Denny's I have to deal with crying babies. In fact, now that I'm thinking and blathering, there should be a ****ing baby tax. And the proceeds should be given to everyone else in society that has to put up with you snug ****s that think you have the right to annoy everyone else by taking a free 3 month vacation and committing noise pollution via the proxy of offspring.

Just give the rest of us like $5,000 a year and we'll be square.

The only good thing that comes from people having babies is that some day they will pay my social security and medicare. So at least they will be somewhat useful...

Is maternity leave paid for three months or unpaid? If it's unpaid then I don't see a problem b/c it's not like they are getting paid during those three months. Would it make you less angry if the three months were unpaid?

It's not selfish to have children if the parents are supporting the child and not using any government "handouts". If the parents have a lot of money and like to spend it all on their children, then that isn't a problem.

You never know, you and your wife could eventually have a child one day.

 

[rph3664]

My friend with the colicky baby never wants another child, and I don't think she'll change her mind.

A few years ago, I saw something like "doctors in [our town] who do vasectomies" on the Google history at work, and knew it was a co-worker who had a new baby with severe reflux who cried up to 20 hours a day and projectile-vomited most of his feedings until they finally got his meds regulated. My co-worker said this baby once screamed nonstop for 2 days without stopping. His mother told him that he and his brother were that way too, and his grandmother said his dad was that way as well (his dad had died when my co-worker was quite young). If I had a child like that, I would probably head for the ER and say, "I am not bringing this child home until you find out what's wrong and remedy it!"

He and his wife just had their fourth child a few weeks ago. The second child was just like the first as a newborn; I don't know what #3 and #4 were/are like because he got another job.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Is maternity leave paid for three months or unpaid? If it's unpaid then I don't see a problem b/c it's not like they are getting paid during those three months. Would it make you less angry if the three months were unpaid?

It's not selfish to have children if the parents are supporting the child and not using any government "handouts". If the parents have a lot of money and like to spend it all on their children, then that isn't a problem.

You never know, you and your wife could eventually have a child one day.

Maternity leave in the US is unpaid, unless you have a particularly generous employer. So if someone is willing to give up nearly a fourth of their yearly income to take that time off, I'm not sure why anybody else would care. Except for the part about picking up all of their slack, which would definitely suck.

 

[rph3664]

Maternity leave in the US is unpaid, unless you have a particularly generous employer. So if someone is willing to give up nearly a fourth of their yearly income to take that time off, I'm not sure why anybody else would care. Except for the part about picking up all of their slack, which would definitely suck.

Many women use short term disability for this too, which I feel is a very legitimate use.

 

[joetrisman]

Rant

Any way that we can get women to sign up for the draft while we're outlying equality measures in this thread?

 

[owlegrad]

Any way that we can get women to sign up for the draft while we're outlying equality measures in this thread?

Wouldn't this require a time machine to pull off?

 

[R2pharmD2]

I think it's totally unfair that I have to pee standing up. I want a constitutional amendment mandating seats at all urinals.

 

[SHC1984]

Many women use short term disability for this too, which I feel is a very legitimate use.

Legitimate? I think not. If those women planned ahead and was pregnant when they were ready then they would have the money saved up and not need short term disabilitiy. Again, WHY have children if you can't paid for the cost of it? (cost includes everything that associates with the pregnancy and recovery process.. I think this is what WVU is complaining about. People having children and expecting other people (society) to pay for everything...when it is YOUR responbility to plan it out and come up with the cash.)

 

[FarscapeGirl]

This always gets twisted into some bull**** feminist "whoa are us, we are so oppressed" whine fest. It just so happens that this affects only women physically. If men had babies, I wouldn't give a **** about them and their delusional outlook on the universe, either.

If anything, the underlying issue is that I just find children annoying. Hell, I used to look at myself in the mirror...7 years old...I think to myself, "God damn, you are annoying as hell...hurry the hell up and get older." And as if to stab me in the eye, fate has made me look like I'm 17 years old at age 27. Haha...you are so clever, fate...you freaking a-hole.

But that I intrinsically can't stand children is also irrelevant.

And all I'm saying is that people who have children don't deserve to have as wide open of career considerations as those who do not miss 3 months of work for an elective medical procedure. Granted, it may be viewed as slightly more "important" of an event to those who have children, but to the rest of us...we don't particularly give a damn...all we know is that it effing sucks picking up your slack. I just see it as a lame, protected elective excuse to get out of three months of work. That's just how it is. And as a person electing to undergo such a process, you are just going to have to accept the fact that what you are doing is annoying to everyone else. Not to mention selfish, being that there are literally thousands upon thousands of children in this country living in foster care that need a home already...there is no need for you to think you are special and plop out another mouth for the world to feed...but that's another discussion. Anyway...like I said...you are just going to have to accept the fact that you are annoying. That's really all it boils down to. No, people won't restrict your ability to needlessly contribute to overpopulation...no, we won't fire you for having a baby...but, dammit, we reserve the right to freaking bitch about you and your god damned three month vacation that we don't get. And you will not take that from us. It's out right to complain about you and your annoying breeding.

Now don't get me wrong...if babies poofed into existence magically, I would obviously COMPLETELY understand the need for maternity leave, etc, etc. Let's say that whole Jesus story actually happened - a'ight - Mary totally gets maternity leave for that ****. Not on her. But that isn't the case with everyone else. You are electing to do this to yourself.

And, further, why is having a baby so freaking special that it needs some sort of protection? It's not like it takes any degree of skill to accomplish. Have you seen the Maury Povich Show? Annnnnnybody can have a child. But from my perspective...you're dang tootin' I bloody had better get a leg up in the company for three extra months of work experience. I have to show up to work for those three months with some temp worker that has no idea WTF they are doing and essentially doing the work of two people because some couple decided that they need to add to the 6 billion other humans that exist on this planet. The considerations of what this might do to your workplace isn't even considered. Not to mention that every time I go to freaking Denny's I have to deal with crying babies. In fact, now that I'm thinking and blathering, there should be a ****ing baby tax. And the proceeds should be given to everyone else in society that has to put up with you snug ****s that think you have the right to annoy everyone else by taking a free 3 month vacation and committing noise pollution via the proxy of offspring.

Just give the rest of us like $5,000 a year and we'll be square.

The only good thing that comes from people having babies is that some day they will pay my social security and medicare. So at least they will be somewhat useful...

Feel better now?

Funny, if you'd read the rest of the thread, you'd see that I was thinking of not messing up my future employer by right away taking maternity leave but rather taking some time off before I start a job. And I'm usually supportive of people not wanting kids, but, seriously, you need to chill or you're going to give yourself an aneurysm.

I want one or two kids. Not seven. That's not going to greatly affect overpopulation (I'm an only child, and my husband's sister isn't having kids), and with the horror stories I've heard about adoption, I'd rather have my own. Yes, adoption can work out, but it's horribly expensive, and I'd rather not risk it. I have enough stress in my life.

Lastly, there are nights I don't want to deal with kids. I realize I won't have this option when I have my own, but I take advantage of it now. I stay away from a good pizza place sometimes because of the frequent stupid/rude parents take the night off and let their kids go wild running around. If you don't want to deal with screaming kids, don't go to Denny's. Just a hint.

 

[SHC1984]

Maternity leave in the US is unpaid, unless you have a particularly generous employer. So if someone is willing to give up nearly a fourth of their yearly income to take that time off, I'm not sure why anybody else would care. Except for the part about picking up all of their slack, which would definitely suck.

It should be unpaid everywhere. The person that wants to be pregnant decided to get pregnant so all financial responbility should be on that person and her husband.

If I wanted to buy an expensive car...can I depend on someone else to make payments if I fall through one month?

 

[R2pharmD2]

Legitimate? I think not. If those women planned ahead and was pregnant when they were ready then they would have the money saved up and not need short term disabilitiy. Again, WHY have children if you can't paid for the cost of it? (cost includes everything that associates with the pregnancy and recovery process.. I think this is what WVU is complaining about. People having children and expecting other people (society) to pay for everything...when it is YOUR responbility to plan it out and come up with the cash.)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't short term disability plans generally either employer or self funded? If that's the case (which I'm reasonably certain it is) then society isn't paying anything.

Edit: It appears some states do fund short term disability. Five states (http://www.livestrong.com/article/158306-short-term-disability-insurance-pregnancy/) apparently mandate employer coverage. So it's out there, but not the norm.

http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/careerplanning/a/disability.htm
Says California, New Jersey, Hawaii, New York and Rhode Island have state sponsored short term disability programs, but it's not clear if they cover maternity.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

It should be unpaid everywhere. The person that wants to be pregnant decided to get pregnant so all financial responbility should be on that person and her husband.

If I wanted to buy an expensive car...can I depend on someone else to make payments if I fall through one month?

So, if you break your leg skiing and need surgery, you're taking unpaid time off from work and won't use your paid sick leave, correct?

Just want to be consistent there. You chose to ski, so you shouldn't expect the rest of us to pay for your time off.

 

[PharmDstudent]

So, if you break your leg skiing and need surgery, you're taking unpaid time off from work and won't use your paid sick leave, correct?

Just want to be consistent there. You chose to ski, so you shouldn't expect the rest of us to pay for your time off.

I think the difference is that pregnancy is intentional while a skiing accident is not.

 

[SHC1984]

So, if you break your leg skiing and need surgery, you're taking unpaid time off from work and won't use your paid sick leave, correct?

Just want to be consistent there. You chose to ski, so you shouldn't expect the rest of us to pay for your time off.

That's totally different. One thing everyone gets sick days from their employers and I think everyone should use those days (for whatever reason you want). If you aren't sick at all and those days don't roll over I would suggest you take them all...everyone else is.

Breaking a leg or any kind of illness isn't by choice. Getting pregnant is your choice, it should be planned out and anyone would be foolish to not plan a pregnancy OR have a baby when they don't have the cash for it.

I don't have any problems with babies. To me babies are like any luxury item you decide to buy. 1) it is your choice to buy the item, just like it is your choice to get pregnant (there is always BC or abortion) 2) since it is your choice, then like any other luxury item you own, YOU should take full responsibility and take care of it by yourself. Having a baby and expecting society or someone else to pay for it is EXACTLY the same as someone buying an expensive car or house and then expecting someone else to paid for it. Here is the HINT...if you can't afford it, don't have it. If you have tons of cash to blow and can afford everything that is required to have a child (including materity leave) then by all means have the baby.

All I am saying is a child should be view the SAME as any luxurys in life. It is a priviledge to have a child. Just like is it priviledge to buy a 3 million dollar house...if you can't afford that, then don't buy it. It is that simple.

 

[pharmschooler]

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rFv0rMWHSg

 

[SHC1984]

You're hilarious.

I bet you relate really well to the Beyaz stork ads (which I find roll-on-the-floor funny...let's go shopping...for men, and houses, and vacations! But not babies; they ruin all the fun!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rFv0rMWHSg

That's not what I mean at all. I am just saying don't have babies UNLESS you can afford it. There are enough people on medicaid in this country. We don't need to add anymore. If you don't have money, please don't ever have children. No one wants to support your child.

But nice commerical though. I like it.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I thought you were replying to Farscape's reply of what I had replied. Six degrees of separation... :tease:
But my comment about the test, plan B, and handing cash over to my brother are no less sincere. And who knows what SHC84 has been through?

I don't doubt your sincerity. Nor is it particularly relevant since my comment was never directed at you. It was directed at SHC who basically said, "Well I've never experienced this BUT" and then did her usual pontification about what other people SHOULD do. My comment was also rooted in a lot of history that has taken place over the last few days in other threads. It didn't involve you.

But again, thanks for the unjustified personal attack.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Legitimate? I think not. If those women planned ahead and was pregnant when they were ready then they would have the money saved up and not need short term disabilitiy. Again, WHY have children if you can't paid for the cost of it? (cost includes everything that associates with the pregnancy and recovery process.. I think this is what WVU is complaining about. People having children and expecting other people (society) to pay for everything...when it is YOUR responbility to plan it out and come up with the cash.)

Do you even know what short term disability is? My husband and I pay a monthly payment for our short term disability insurance, just like any other form of insurance. Are you aware that health insurance pays for the cost of pregnancy and childbirth? Are you OK with that?

It should be unpaid everywhere. The person that wants to be pregnant decided to get pregnant so all financial responbility should be on that person and her husband.

Why do you care if someone gets paid maternity or paternity leave through their employer? It's not a cost to society. It's a benefit the employer has decided to offer, just like anything else in a benefits package. If an employer wants to pay for a benefit for an employee, isn't that the employer's right to do? It's not like they are taking the money away from YOU and giving it to someone else.

Paid maternity/paternity leave is rare anyway. Most people use their vacation time or FMLA, which is unpaid. And FMLA is available to anyone, within the guidelines of the law.

I think the difference is that pregnancy is intentional while a skiing accident is not.

I believe what is being suggested is that if one chooses to go skiing, one assumes the risk of being injured. Just like someone chooses to get pregnant. Personally I don't have a problem with time off for pregnancy/childbirth or for skiing accidents. Life happens.

 

[SHC1984]

Do you even know what short term disability is? My husband and I pay a monthly payment for our short term disability insurance, just like any other form of insurance. Are you aware that health insurance pays for the cost of pregnancy and childbirth? Are you OK with that?



Why do you care if someone gets paid maternity or paternity leave through their employer? It's not a cost to society. It's a benefit the employer has decided to offer, just like anything else in a benefits package. If an employer wants to pay for a benefit for an employee, isn't that the employer's right to do? It's not like they are taking the money away from YOU and giving it to someone else.

Paid maternity/paternity leave is rare anyway. Most people use their vacation time or FMLA, which is unpaid. And FMLA is available to anyone, within the guidelines of the law.

Yeah, if it's private insurance that you bought yourself then that's fine.

For the paid or unpaid maternity leave I was just trying to figure out why WVU was so angry in that one post. I wasn't sure if maternity leave was paid or not. If it's unpaid that's fine...WVU seems to disagree, but I don't see a problem with it. A employee should be allow to take off time if they wish (as long as they aren't getting paid who cares?).

If it's paid then I guess I can see some tension b/c if I decided NOT to have kids and I work with someone that has THREE babies over the few years...then pretty much the company has paid that person to have a 9 month PAID vacation...while I got NOTHING. I guess I can see the bitterness coming out b/c of that. I think that was what WVU is refering to.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I don't doubt your sincerity. Nor is it particularly relevant since my comment was never directed at you. It was directed at SHC who basically said, "Well I've never experienced this BUT" and then did her usual pontification about what other people SHOULD do. My comment was also rooted in a lot of history that has taken place over the last few days in other threads. It didn't involve you.

But again, thanks for the unjustified personal attack.

Our opinions are similar enough that it wasn't clear who you were talking about, so it was justified in that context. You've avoided using specific names in the past, so again, it wasn't clear.
And I still don't think you should assume what other people have or have not experienced!

 

[PharmDstudent]

Do you even know what short term disability is? My husband and I pay a monthly payment for our short term disability insurance, just like any other form of insurance. Are you aware that health insurance pays for the cost of pregnancy and childbirth? Are you OK with that?



Why do you care if someone gets paid maternity or paternity leave through their employer? It's not a cost to society. It's a benefit the employer has decided to offer, just like anything else in a benefits package. If an employer wants to pay for a benefit for an employee, isn't that the employer's right to do? It's not like they are taking the money away from YOU and giving it to someone else.

Paid maternity/paternity leave is rare anyway. Most people use their vacation time or FMLA, which is unpaid. And FMLA is available to anyone, within the guidelines of the law.



I believe what is being suggested is that if one chooses to go skiing, one assumes the risk of being injured. Just like someone chooses to get pregnant. Personally I don't have a problem with time off for pregnancy/childbirth or for skiing accidents. Life happens.

Not all health insurance plans pay for child birth.

Ok. But you can't "accidentally" have sex.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Our opinions are similar enough that it wasn't clear who you were talking about, so it was justified in that context. You've avoided using specific names in the past, so again, it wasn't clear.
And I still don't think you should assume what other people have or have not experienced!

It was clear if you were following the conversation, since in the post I quoted Farscapegirl addressed SHC by name. And I didn't have to assume. She said she hadn't experienced it. No assumptions required.

As far as thinking you were justified, whatever. I think it's amusing that someone who got SO upset over being "attacked" for her views on nuclear pharmacy would herself quickly resort to personal attacks and name-calling. But whatever floats your boat.

 

[PharmDstudent]

It was clear if you were following the conversation, since in the post I quoted Farscapegirl addressed SHC by name. And I didn't have to assume. She said she hadn't experienced it. No assumptions required.

As far as thinking you were justified, whatever. I think it's amusing that someone who got SO upset over being "attacked" for her views on nuclear pharmacy would herself quickly resort to personal attacks and name-calling. But whatever floats your boat.

I'm using a 2"x3" screen, so excuse me It's harder to keep up on it.

 

[SHC1984]

Our opinions are similar enough that it wasn't clear who you were talking about, so it was justified in that context. You've avoided using specific names in the past, so again, it wasn't clear.
And I still don't think you should assume what other people have or have not experienced!

We have similar opinions on babies? Cool beans.

I can see where allformydaugther is coming from in this thread and in the medicaid thread. I have taken a women's studies class before and the professor had similar views as allformydaughter. So I see where they are coming from...I however, just prefer to keep as much money as I can to myself. To be honest! LOL...I don't like socialism and I really HATE it when people have the idea that "it's okay, I can do whatever I want...b/c the government will paid for everything mentality." Or the mentality that I don't have to take responsibility for my own actions b/c someone else will bare the consequences for me. I just don't like that kind of people.

I have always been in favor of a purely capitalist society in which everyone works for their own money and benefits from their own ideas and creations. Socialism is just not for me. Is there any country that is PURELY capitalist? If there is I will move there.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

If it's paid then I guess I can see some tension b/c if I decided NOT to have kids and I work with someone that has THREE babies over the few years...then pretty much the company has paid that person to have a 9 month PAID vacation...while I got NOTHING. I guess I can see the bitterness coming out b/c of that. I think that was what WVU is refering to.

Since we're all about choices here, look at it this way. If an employer CHOOSES to offer a benefit (of any type) and you CHOOSE not to take advantage of it (for any reason), does that make someone who does CHOOSE to take advantage of it wrong? After all, if the benefit is equally available to everyone, then isn't it every employee's right to CHOOSE to accept it or decline it?

My husband's employer offers a lot of benefits and we don't use all of them. But you don't see me getting mad at the people who do use them. Why shouldn't they? Doesn't the employer provide them because they expect their employees to use them?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Not all health insurance plans pay for child birth.

What's your point? If you have health insurance and know that it doesn't cover childbirth, then you'd also expect to have to pay for it yourself, right?

Ok. But you can't "accidentally" have sex.

That is most certainly NOT true.

But let's assume for a minute that all sex is intentional and consensual. People CAN get pregnant during protected sex. And that's EXACTLY the same as choosing to go skiing and breaking a leg. Both are accidental.

I'm using a 2"x3" screen, so excuse me It's harder to keep up on it.

Oh, ok. Now that is a great justification for having a hissy fit. And you accuse OTHER people of being hypocritical? LOLOLOL. As frustrated as I get with SHC and her (at times) illogical arguments I will have to give her maturity points for not calling other people names or attacking others.

 

[PharmDstudent]

We have similar opinions on babies? Cool beans.

I can see where allformydaugther is coming from in this thread and in the medicaid thread. I have taken a women's studies class before and the professor had similar views as allformydaughter. So I see where they are coming from...I however, just prefer to keep as much money as I can to myself. To be honest! LOL...I don't like socialism and I really HATE it when people have the idea that "it's okay, I can do whatever I want...b/c the government will paid for everything mentality." Or the mentality that I don't have to take responsibility for my own actions b/c someone else will bare the consequences for me. I just don't like that kind of people.

Tell me about it. My brother's fiancee is worse than before. Now she recieves food stamps and disability on top of Medicaid.
I have the thought not to go to her second baby shower or participate in any way. We shall see!

 

[owlegrad]

I have always been in favor of a purely capitalist society in which everyone works for their own money and benefits from their own ideas and creations. Socialism is just not for me. Is there any country that is PURELY capitalist? If there is I will move there.

Somali.

Edit: Nice use of "cool beans". I used to say that a lot.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

We have similar opinions on babies? Cool beans.

I can see where allformydaugther is coming from in this thread and in the medicaid thread. I have taken a women's studies class before and the professor had similar views as allformydaughter. So I see where they are coming from...I however, just prefer to keep as much money as I can to myself. To be honest! LOL...I don't like socialism and I really HATE it when people have the idea that "it's okay, I can do whatever I want...b/c the government will paid for everything mentality." Or the mentality that I don't have to take responsibility for my own actions b/c someone else will bare the consequences for me. I just don't like that kind of people.

I have always been in favor of a purely capitalist society in which everyone works for their own money and benefits from their own ideas and creations. Socialism is just not for me. Is there any country that is PURELY capitalist? If there is I will move there.

The US is one of the MOST capitalist nations in the developed world. If you think our system is socialist, stay away from most other developed nations. Almost anywhere you'd WANT to live (meaning quality of life) taxes are higher and there are more government programs.

 

[rph3664]

Paid maternity/paternity leave is rare anyway.

I've only worked at one company that had it, and that was the mail order place I worked at in the mid 1990s. Women got 6 weeks; men got 3 days. They could take more time if they wanted but had to use vacation time if they wanted to be paid for it.

 

[Allure]

I must say that I'm surprised how some of the women on here feel about maternity leave and pregnancy. This is why I do not like working with women. Too much drama. Seriously, you are not paying for it..so who gives a ****? When you become an employer, you can set whatever rules you want. If someone wants to get pregnant, let them. If someone wants to take 3 months off, let them. This doesn't really concern you in anyway.

 

[SHC1984]

What's your point? If you have health insurance and know that it doesn't cover childbirth, then you'd also expect to have to pay for it yourself, right?



That is most certainly NOT true.

But let's assume for a minute that all sex is intentional and consensual. People CAN get pregnant during protected sex. And that's EXACTLY the same as choosing to go skiing and breaking a leg. Both are accidental.



Oh, ok. Now that is a great justification for being a baby and having a hissy fit. And you accuse OTHER people of being hypocritical? LOLOLOL. As frustrated as I get with SHC and (at times) illogical arguments I will have to give her maturity points for not calling other people names or attacking others.

If the person has no insurance that cover for pregnancy then she would have to paid for it out of pocket. Unless she wants to freeload on society but don't get me started on that again! LOL....

R you talking about rape? That's the only way sex isn't intentional. If a person is pregnant but can't afford it or is not ready for it, abortion is the best option.

I usually try not to be mean on here. I have nothing against anyone...it's just that...like I was saying...some people support capitalism and some support socialism. If you support one and I support another than we will not agree. No reason to get angry over these things.

It's the same sensitive topics like abortions, affirmative action, medicaid, etc. I am for abortion, but against the last two things. If a person is religious or socalistic they will not agree with me. NO biggie.

 

[PharmDstudent]

What's your point? If you have health insurance and know that it doesn't cover childbirth, then you'd also expect to have to pay for it yourself, right?



That is most certainly NOT true.

But let's assume for a minute that all sex is intentional and consensual. People CAN get pregnant during protected sex. And that's EXACTLY the same as choosing to go skiing and breaking a leg. Both are accidental.



Oh, ok. Now that is a great justification for being a baby and having a hissy fit. And you accuse OTHER people of being hypocritical? LOLOLOL. As frustrated as I get with SHC and her (at times) illogical arguments I will have to give her maturity points for not calling other people names or attacking others.

If you don't want to participate in a plan or with a company that pays for childbirth, then you have the choice not to, unlike being forced to pay taxes for Medicaid.

How can you accidentally spread your legs and have SEX? Please. Enlighten me.

Fine. Don't allow me to be humble about it...
I had replied to five she's and a her. No names!