Having a kid during the last year of pharm school...

[FarscapeGirl]

So, I still remember an epic thread about when to have a kid during pharmacy school. The general consensus was NOT to have one, and after being in school, I'd have to agree. I barely have time for laundry, let alone quality kid time.

But, my husband and I are older (he's 37 and I'm 29), and I still have two years of school left. Is it realistic to plan to try and get pregnant my last year of pharmacy school during rotations? Has anyone posting on here done this? Or known someone who did? How did it work out?

I think my mom had a relatively easy pregnancy, and I don't plan on reducing my work at my rotation sites if I do get pregnant (an earlier complaint on the other thread...). I'm a little worried about jumping from the stress of pharmacy school right to the stress of having a kid, and I don't know how the timing would work with having a baby right around graduation and then trying to get licensed. But I don't want to start a job right away and then go off on maternity leave, either. That doesn't seem fair to my future employer.

Any advice would be appreciated...

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[mustang sally]

I can't say I've done it, but several of the women in my class have. All the women from my original class who have had babies are still on track to graduate. So it is probably not easy, but people do it all the time. You have to do what's right for you...I figure women in med school/residency have babies, so how is having a kid in pharmacy school harder than that?

One girl in my class is due during rotations. But since we haven't gone on rotations, I'm not sure how it will work out yet. I'm sure she planned her bye around her due date, though. There are also people who ended up dropping down to our class from the year above due to pregnancy, so I guess you just have to be prepared for anything while pregnant.

 

[cycloketocaine]

So, I still remember an epic thread about when to have a kid during pharmacy school. The general consensus was NOT to have one, and after being in school, I'd have to agree. I barely have time for laundry, let alone quality kid time.

But, my husband and I are older (he's 37 and I'm 29), and I still have two years of school left. Is it realistic to plan to try and get pregnant my last year of pharmacy school during rotations? Has anyone posting on here done this? Or known someone who did? How did it work out?

I think my mom had a relatively easy pregnancy, and I don't plan on reducing my work at my rotation sites if I do get pregnant (an earlier complaint on the other thread...). I'm a little worried about jumping from the stress of pharmacy school right to the stress of having a kid, and I don't know how the timing would work with having a baby right around graduation and then trying to get licensed. But I don't want to start a job right away and then go off on maternity leave, either. That doesn't seem fair to my future employer.

Any advice would be appreciated...

I got pregnant in October of my P3 year and was due in July of my P4 year. I wanted to have a baby so that my older daughter would have a sibling close to her age, and I knew I couldn't have one during a residency. Actually, I highly recommend it to anyone that can pull it off. You can potentially get 12 weeks off with the baby (which is more that any employer will give). My situation turned out a little bit different, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. In my P4 class, 11 out of 40 people either had a baby or are going to have a baby this year.

PM me if you have any more questions.....but it is very possible and can be done.

 

[rph3664]

I had a few classmates (men and women both) who had children while in school, and all of them were unplanned. My advice: Wait until you've been out at least a year. If you don't have time for laundry now, how do you expect to take care of a baby, even if your husband assumes the primary caregiving role?

At 29, there's still no hurry. And what if you end up having a complicated pregnancy or a sick baby?

 

[njac]

More than 10% of my class had a baby during 4th year. Our experiential director had also taught contraceptives and was pretty upset! Its doable, 2 of them went on to donresidencies - one completed and the other quit before September.

 

[gmuskie]

You just never know..There was a 4th year that I work with that thought it would be easy, had her 2 months off planned around her due date...and then she had complications, was put on bed rest, and had to miss 4 rotations.

 

[rph3664]

There was a woman a year ahead of me who had a baby due during a rotation, and the female (!) preceptor told her that if she took more than 3 days off when the baby was born, she would automatically fail. My classmate replied, "What if I have a c-section? I'll still be in the hospital" and the preceptor replied, "Then you shouldn't have gotten pregnant."

This woman went to the dean, and the dean told the preceptor that as long as this woman turned in all her assignments, she could not be flunked.

The year after I graduated, this preceptor was denied tenure (gee, I wonder why? She attributed it to being female but honestly, she wasn't a very good teacher either) and the year after that, she was pregnant herself. She scaled back her teaching duties considerably after that baby was born, which was just as well.

I later met a woman who graduated a few years after me whose due date was the week of the NABPLEX. Like most first babies, this one was overdue but she did manage to get the test taken before the baby arrived. This was back when it was given every 3 months; she almost had to drop back a year because she had terrible morning sickness which bordered on hyperemesis, but did stay in school despite being zonked on Phenergan suppositories, which didn't work very well either, for several months.

 

[pharmschooler]

I've thought about this, too, since it would be nice to start a family at least a few years before the age of 35, but a woman in my gen chem series had to drop all her courses due to issues during her pregnancy. I think pregnancy can be pretty rough sometimes.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I found out I was pregnant on the 2nd day of my third rotation (surprise!). It's been rough. I was very sick the entire first trimester and never got over the fatigue. Now I'm about to start my third trimester and I'm exhausted. I have had exactly one week off since I started rotations. I was supposed to have December off but ended up having to do a rotation then so I could be excused from Block 8 because that's when I'm due. I have had some trouble with single female preceptors (old maid types, lol) who don't seem to understand how hard it is to function when you're vomiting every day. I am high risk so I've been going to the doctor almost every week and I'm lucky that my preceptors (mostly) have been accomodating. I had two out of town rotations that I had to get rid of b/c my doctor wouldn't allow it.

It's doable and it might be very easy for you, but be prepared to be flexible and know that difficulties can arise that may complicate things. Make sure you have an ally on the faculty who can help you figure things out.

At 29 you do have some time, but pregnancy gets harder to achieve and endure as you get older. If you keep putting it off waiting for the perfect time, you'll never do it.

Just some things to think about!

 

[rph3664]

WoW, A4MD! Congratulations!

 

[veyep]

So, I still remember an epic thread about when to have a kid during pharmacy school. The general consensus was NOT to have one, and after being in school, I'd have to agree. I barely have time for laundry, let alone quality kid time.

But, my husband and I are older (he's 37 and I'm 29), and I still have two years of school left. Is it realistic to plan to try and get pregnant my last year of pharmacy school during rotations? Has anyone posting on here done this? Or known someone who did? How did it work out?

I think my mom had a relatively easy pregnancy, and I don't plan on reducing my work at my rotation sites if I do get pregnant (an earlier complaint on the other thread...). I'm a little worried about jumping from the stress of pharmacy school right to the stress of having a kid, and I don't know how the timing would work with having a baby right around graduation and then trying to get licensed. But I don't want to start a job right away and then go off on maternity leave, either. That doesn't seem fair to my future employer.

Any advice would be appreciated...

I know some people who get pregnant last year of their pharmacy school so they can get whatever site they request and have an easier 4th year and use the baby excuse! plus they don't have to leave on maternity and can go work and make money because the kid is grown up to leave him/her with someone and not needing to be around as much upon graduation! I would focus on school then have a baby IMO.

 

[Pharmavixen]

Go for it. If you wait for the perfect time to have a baby, you'll never have one.

 

[rph3664]

Go for it. If you wait for the perfect time to have a baby, you'll never have one.

There are definitely imperfect times to have a baby, however, and being in school is one of them.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I should also add that I'm over 35. I had one chronic disease that made me higher risk before I got pregnant and then I developed another pregnancy related condition. So in addition to my regular OB I also see a maternal/fetal specialist and have a perinatal nurse that I see on the off weeks. It's a lot of visits. My last pregnancy racked up 50K in medical bills and I'm guessing this one will be twice that. We'll see. I'm going on Medicaid so we don't have to pay for it. [JOKING]

As far as timing I'd say doing it your final year of school is not ideal but it's doable. I had to make compromises. I really wanted those out of town rotations b/c they were both really awesome experiences. I had to find my OWN rotations to make up for them. Luckily my employer hooked me up or I would have been stuck with some leftover crap no one wanted.

While in my rotation sites there have been some challenges. I had to take a chair with me on ICU rounds b/c they were just too long and I couldn't stand the entire time. I've had to leave rounds to vomit more than once. It has been very hot in the hospital on my current rotation and sometimes I feel like I'm going to pass out. I hate having to sit while everyone is standing. I have to eat more frequently that I'd like to or than is convenient. Stuff like that.

It's worth it though.

 

[cycloketocaine]

I should also add that I'm over 35. I had one chronic disease that made me higher risk before I got pregnant and then I developed another pregnancy related condition. So in addition to my regular OB I also see a maternal/fetal specialist and have a perinatal nurse that I see on the off weeks. It's a lot of visits. My last pregnancy racked up 50K in medical bills and I'm guessing this one will be twice that. We'll see. I'm going on Medicaid so we don't have to pay for it. [JOKING]

As far as timing I'd say doing it your final year of school is not ideal but it's doable. I had to make compromises. I really wanted those out of town rotations b/c they were both really awesome experiences. I had to find my OWN rotations to make up for them. Luckily my employer hooked me up or I would have been stuck with some leftover crap no one wanted.

While in my rotation sites there have been some challenges. I had to take a chair with me on ICU rounds b/c they were just too long and I couldn't stand the entire time. I've had to leave rounds to vomit more than once. It has been very hot in the hospital on my current rotation and sometimes I feel like I'm going to pass out. I hate having to sit while everyone is standing. I have to eat more frequently that I'd like to or than is convenient. Stuff like that.

It's worth it though.

I was actually pregnant during the third year and delivered at the beginning of the fourth. I can't imagine doing rotations pregnant. You are super woman.

Above posters talk about complications, etc., well, I am the complications queen. First of all, my large intestine is fused to my uterus making carrying past 35 weeks impossible. Second, during my last pregnancy, I had a placental abruption. I was in the hospital for 56 days and had to take a medical leave of absence from school. I worked with administration and finished when I got out, and I will graduate on time with everyone else. So, even when all hell breaks loose, it's doable.

I completely understand your rationale for wanting a baby now. I don't regret my decision to have a baby in my fourth year and would do it again, even with all the chit that hit the fan. Do what your gut says.

And the above poster who mentioned if you wait, there will never be a right time hit the nail on the head.

A4MD is right........it's completely and totally worth it when that screaming baby is plopped on your chest.

 

[cycloketocaine]

There are definitely imperfect times to have a baby, however, and being in school is one of them.

Statements like this make me a little angry. Who are you to say it is an imperfect time? Maybe the OP is at a point in her life where she feels like it's right.

I just don't understand why some people are so quick to judge or look down on others decisions.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Statements like this make me a little angry. Who are you to say it is an imperfect time? Maybe the OP is at a point in her life where she feels like it's right.

I just don't understand why some people are so quick to judge or look down on others decisions.

I would say that EVERY time is imperfect. What in life is perfect anyway? You will never have enough time. You will never have enough money to make things totally worry free. There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids. If we wait for perfect, we'll be waiting forever. Life is imperfect.

 

[cycloketocaine]

I would say that EVERY time is imperfect. What in life is perfect anyway? You will never have enough time. You will never have enough money to make things totally worry free. There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids. If we wait for perfect, we'll be waiting forever. Life is imperfect.

 

[confettiflyer]

I would say that EVERY time is imperfect. What in life is perfect anyway? You will never have enough time. You will never have enough money to make things totally worry free. There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids. If we wait for perfect, we'll be waiting forever. Life is imperfect.

This is true. If everyone waited until they had enough time/money/living space to have babies, the human race would go extinct.

Unless you're on Medicaid, then you drive a $100k car and live in a mansion, feel free to pop them out like a pez dispenser [hey you're not the only one who can lyrically sample another thread, hahaha]

 

[rxlea]

i would say that every time is imperfect. What in life is perfect anyway? You will never have enough time. You will never have enough money to make things totally worry free. There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids. If we wait for perfect, we'll be waiting forever. Life is imperfect.

epic.

 

[rph3664]

A surprise pregnancy is one thing. Having a PLANNED child while in school just doesn't make sense to me, but that's MHO.

We had several classes with medical students, and that section of the room (we weren't assigned; it just happened that way) looked like a Lamaze class. I've been told that a lot of women do that so they won't be pregnant during residency and the resulting 80 or 100 hour work weeks. Didn't stop most of the female residents at my last hospital from having at least one baby during their 3-year family practice residency.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I would say that EVERY time is imperfect. What in life is perfect anyway? You will never have enough time. You will never have enough money to make things totally worry free. There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids. If we wait for perfect, we'll be waiting forever. Life is imperfect.

Wow. Thanks everyone for all the genuine responses. I started this thread expecting to be trolled, honestly. Instead, I come home after a long day at work laughing at "There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids" (really, that would be a great title for a pregnancy book!). I really wanted to hear what the difficulties are with potentially going this path. No one woman's experience is the same with pregnancy (or couples, for that matter), but it's nice to know what I might expect.

I think being flexible is the key to being a parent, and I guess if I do decide to go this route, I have to really keep that in mind. Really, I'll be turning 32 when I finish pharm school, and my husband will be almost 40. I'm at the point where I really want kids. My grad school friends have children that are toddlers now, and I'm even more aware of the various types of craziness of having kids yet still want one of my own (but I will tell you that I'm taking all the advantage I can of going out spur of the moment, sleeping in, having a quiet meal at a restaurant, etc).

My main concern is that I'm worried about the stress issue. I went from getting married in 2008 (which, granted, was fun but crazy), to writing my doctorate thesis/starting pharm school in 2009, and I graduate in 2013. That's a lot of years of craziness. But that desire to have a kid before I get too much older is there. And one thing I've noticed with my friends is that once you have that kid, your life gets more organized in some ways, because it has to. My one friend says that she never got as much done on her thesis as when she had her baby: she wrote as much as she could whenever she had a few minutes, because that's all the time she had.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

A surprise pregnancy is one thing. Having a PLANNED child while in school just doesn't make sense to me, but that's MHO.

We had several classes with medical students, and that section of the room (we weren't assigned; it just happened that way) looked like a Lamaze class. I've been told that a lot of women do that so they won't be pregnant during residency and the resulting 80 or 100 hour work weeks. Didn't stop most of the female residents at my last hospital from having at least one baby during their 3-year family practice residency.

It does depend on the program. It actually worked out really well for a few friends of mine to have their kids during the last few years of grad school. You're working, spend a lot of time at home writing, and if grad school takes a tiny bit longer, it's not that big of a deal. We were thinking of doing that, but it would have meant having a young kid in pharmacy school, and I didn't want to have to feel guilty about either not spending enough time with school or not spending enough time with my kid.

 

[rph3664]

"There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids" (really, that would be a great title for a pregnancy book!)

Ever seen the "Girlfriend's Guide to Pregnancy" book? This is how it ought to be subtitled - and the author has 4 kids.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think your best course of action is to talk with other women who have children and who've had babies during pharmacy school. I hate to say this, but no one else is really qualified to give you advice about it. It's one of those things you don't understand until you've done it. That may be an unpopular opinion, but it's how I feel.

I had my first child at 28. I thought that pregnancy was difficult, but when I compare it to this one it was pretty easy. Despite the ever increasing average age of maternity, the risks of pregnancy DO increase with age. Plus, you just have less energy. I wish I'd done this earlier. I want to have another baby after this one and I'll be looking at more of the same (advanced maternal age, high risk pregnancy, etc) if I can even get pregnant again. But it IS worth it.

Another thought I had is that you can only plan your life to a point. In the spring of 2008 my husband and I had a plan. We were going to start trying for our second child in the fall of that year and hope to have the baby right after my P3 year. We had delayed trying for several years when I decided to go to pharmacy school and we decided we didn't want to wait much longer. My daughter (4 y.o. at the time) was itching for a baby sister.

So the plan was new baby in summer 2009, graduation in 2010 and then a family vacation to Disneyworld and Universal Studios for the opening of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It was a good plan. We even ordered the Disney vacation planning package sometime in early summer 2008 so we could get started.

That package from Disney arrived two weeks after our daughter died in July 2008. The plan died with her. Sometime in spring 2009 I learned that despite being completely asymptomatic and otherwise relatively healthy, I'd developed a condition that might prevent me from becoming pregnant or at least make it very difficult. I was still fairly young at the time (33) and was stunned. I thought I still had time.

Fast forward to this past fall. I got pregnant by accident. Sometimes things do work out. But who knows if I will get lucky again? I will be even older when I try again. We'll see.

I do not recommend that women delay childbearing much past their early thirties, if it is feasible and desirable for them to have children while they are younger. While there is every chance in the world that any given woman will have NO trouble getting pregnant, if there is something wrong with "the plumbing," there is less time to fix it if the woman is older. It's tough b/c childbearing does interfere or at least interact with education and career building, in varying degrees. It is definitely possible to "have it all" and many women do, but it's important to be realistic and realize that everything may not go according to plan and there may be roadblocks and setbacks that necessitate extra effort and compromise.

In the end, it's a decision you and your husband will have to make together. No one else knows what is right for you, and you and he alone will live with the consequences (good and bad) of whatever decisions you make. I think you're doing the right thing by thinking about this now, and I wish you the best with your decision.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I think your best course of action is to talk with other women who have children and who've had babies during pharmacy school. I hate to say this, but no one else is really qualified to give you advice about it. It's one of those things you don't understand until you've done it. That may be an unpopular opinion, but it's how I feel.

I had my first child at 28. I thought that pregnancy was difficult, but when I compare it to this one it was pretty easy. Despite the ever increasing average age of maternity, the risks of pregnancy DO increase with age. Plus, you just have less energy. I wish I'd done this earlier. I want to have another baby after this one and I'll be looking at more of the same (advanced maternal age, high risk pregnancy, etc) if I can even get pregnant again. But it IS worth it.

Another thought I had is that you can only plan your life to a point. In the spring of 2008 my husband and I had a plan. We were going to start trying for our second child in the fall of that year and hope to have the baby right after my P3 year. We had delayed trying for several years when I decided to go to pharmacy school and we decided we didn't want to wait much longer. My daughter (4 y.o. at the time) was itching for a baby sister.

So the plan was new baby in summer 2009, graduation in 2010 and then a family vacation to Disneyworld and Universal Studios for the opening of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It was a good plan. We even ordered the Disney vacation planning package sometime in early summer 2008 so we could get started.

That package from Disney arrived two weeks after our daughter died in July 2008. The plan died with her. Sometime in spring 2009 I learned that despite being completely asymptomatic and otherwise relatively healthy, I'd developed a condition that might prevent me from becoming pregnant or at least make it very difficult. I was still fairly young at the time (33) and was stunned. I thought I still had time.

Fast forward to this past fall. I got pregnant by accident. Sometimes things do work out. But who knows if I will get lucky again? I will be even older when I try again. We'll see.

I do not recommend that women delay childbearing much past their early thirties, if it is feasible and desirable for them to have children while they are younger. While there is every chance in the world that any given woman will have NO trouble getting pregnant, if there is something wrong with "the plumbing," there is less time to fix it if the woman is older. It's tough b/c childbearing does interfere or at least interact with education and career building, in varying degrees. It is definitely possible to "have it all" and many women do, but it's important to be realistic and realize that everything may not go according to plan and there may be roadblocks and setbacks that necessitate extra effort and compromise.

In the end, it's a decision you and your husband will have to make together. No one else knows what is right for you, and you and he alone will live with the consequences (good and bad) of whatever decisions you make. I think you're doing the right thing by thinking about this now, and I wish you the best with your decision.

First post on SDN that's brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your honesty and your sharing. I can't imagine what you and your husband have been through, and I wish you the best with your new one when he or she comes. The unexpected in life truly brings us some of the worst in life but can also bring the best.

 

[minette]

I think your best course of action is to talk with other women who have children and who've had babies during pharmacy school. I hate to say this, but no one else is really qualified to give you advice about it. It's one of those things you don't understand until you've done it. That may be an unpopular opinion, but it's how I feel.

I had my first child at 28. I thought that pregnancy was difficult, but when I compare it to this one it was pretty easy. Despite the ever increasing average age of maternity, the risks of pregnancy DO increase with age. Plus, you just have less energy. I wish I'd done this earlier. I want to have another baby after this one and I'll be looking at more of the same (advanced maternal age, high risk pregnancy, etc) if I can even get pregnant again. But it IS worth it.

Another thought I had is that you can only plan your life to a point. In the spring of 2008 my husband and I had a plan. We were going to start trying for our second child in the fall of that year and hope to have the baby right after my P3 year. We had delayed trying for several years when I decided to go to pharmacy school and we decided we didn't want to wait much longer. My daughter (4 y.o. at the time) was itching for a baby sister.

So the plan was new baby in summer 2009, graduation in 2010 and then a family vacation to Disneyworld and Universal Studios for the opening of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It was a good plan. We even ordered the Disney vacation planning package sometime in early summer 2008 so we could get started.

That package from Disney arrived two weeks after our daughter died in July 2008. The plan died with her. Sometime in spring 2009 I learned that despite being completely asymptomatic and otherwise relatively healthy, I'd developed a condition that might prevent me from becoming pregnant or at least make it very difficult. I was still fairly young at the time (33) and was stunned. I thought I still had time.

Fast forward to this past fall. I got pregnant by accident. Sometimes things do work out. But who knows if I will get lucky again? I will be even older when I try again. We'll see.

I do not recommend that women delay childbearing much past their early thirties, if it is feasible and desirable for them to have children while they are younger. While there is every chance in the world that any given woman will have NO trouble getting pregnant, if there is something wrong with "the plumbing," there is less time to fix it if the woman is older. It's tough b/c childbearing does interfere or at least interact with education and career building, in varying degrees. It is definitely possible to "have it all" and many women do, but it's important to be realistic and realize that everything may not go according to plan and there may be roadblocks and setbacks that necessitate extra effort and compromise.

In the end, it's a decision you and your husband will have to make together. No one else knows what is right for you, and you and he alone will live with the consequences (good and bad) of whatever decisions you make. I think you're doing the right thing by thinking about this now, and I wish you the best with your decision.

You are sooo good at giving advice...

 

[Dr Wario]

Being that pregnancy is a 100% preventable condition, as a preceptor I would be just as hard on you as my other students.

P.s. I also think maternity leave is a very stupid idea for the above reason.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I would say that EVERY time is imperfect. What in life is perfect anyway? You will never have enough time. You will never have enough money to make things totally worry free. There is never a good time to get fat and develop hemorrhoids. If we wait for perfect, we'll be waiting forever. Life is imperfect.

Which is why you probably just shouldn't have kids at all.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Which is why you probably just shouldn't have kids at all.

Thanks for the advice.

Ha! I was waiting for you to show up in this thread.

I know you can't imagine wanting children, but some people can't imagine not wanting them.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Which is why you probably just shouldn't have kids at all.

Thanks for the advice.

Yep. People say that all the time ("Don't have kids!"), but it seems like no one actually listens.


A relative of mine has been raising her great nephew for 11+ years, because he would have gone to adoption otherwise. She always tells me to not have kids... while reminding me that it isn't always an option. LOL!


I think if I were to have a children, I would have to be financially independent. Otherwise, why struggle?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

If people want to have children they should have them.
If people don't want to have children they shouldn't have them.

People who do shouldn't criticize the ones who don't and vice versa.

It seems pretty simple to me.

 

[PharmDstudent]

If people want to have children they should have them.
If people don't want to have children they shouldn't have them.

People who do shouldn't criticize the ones who don't and vice versa.

It seems pretty simple to me.

That's absurd. People shouldn't always have everything they want. What about failure to thrive and poverty in general? It's not fair to children.

It's the constant hypocritical complaining from parents that bothers me...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I don't think allowing people to exercise their right to choose to have or not have kids is absurd.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I don't think allowing people to exercise their right to choose to have or not have kids is absurd.

Who says it's a right?

 

[owlegrad]

Being that pregnancy is a 100% preventable condition, as a preceptor I would be just as hard on you as my other students.

P.s. I also think maternity leave is a very stupid idea for the above reason.

HR is gonna love you!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

HR is gonna love you!

Yeah, legally it's treated like any other documented medical condition.

 

[njac]

Go for it. If you wait for the perfect time to have a baby, you'll never have one.

I have to agree with this. I discussed this with a classmate who had 2 babies during pharmacy school (1 the summer between 1st and 2nd year, the second right before rotations started - she then went on to complete a residency)

It's not perfect to do it during school, it's not perfect to be pregnant when you're job hunting, it's not perfect to have to take time off your first year of work, it's not perfect once you have some more responsibilities... it's never perfect.

 

[rph3664]

It's the constant hypocritical complaining from parents that bothers me...

Especially when they have more than one planned child! Hey, you KNEW what you were getting into when you decided to have more kids, KWIM? And the ones who have additional planned children with husbands who don't help with the kids at all, sometimes not even financially, or who is so irresponsible that the kids are not safe around him, get no sympathy from me.

I never had kids and never wanted to, either.

One advantage of turning 40 is that I got asked a lot less infrequently, "Why aren't you married and don't have kids?" More than once, the reply, "What for? So I can be as miserable as you?" shut them up really fast.

 

[pharmschooler]

One advantage of turning 40 is that I got asked a lot less infrequently, "Why aren't you married and don't have kids?" More than once, the reply, "What for? So I can be as miserable as you?" shut them up really fast.

Not everyone who is married or has children is miserable. I love being married; so do most other married people I know. It might not always look perfect on the outside, but that's because nothing is ever perfect. I do think if you choose well, marriage can be a wonderful experience.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Being that pregnancy is a 100% preventable condition, as a preceptor I would be just as hard on you as my other students.

P.s. I also think maternity leave is a very stupid idea for the above reason.

Thanks for your nice thoughts that we should go back to the 1950s and force women to stay at home, raise the kids, and be happy with their lot in life. They certainly can't be more productive members of society than mothers and housecleaners. (Note: IMO, if a woman or man, for that matter, chooses to stay at home, I think that as long as it's the right choice for them and their partners, that's fine with me!).

Pregnancy is not 100% preventable, by the way. And it's also not guaranteed what sort of pregnancy a woman will have. Some women will love being pregnant, some with have other preexisting conditions, some will develop conditions while pregnant. Do you think a woman chooses to get preeclampsia or gestational diabetes??

And, in fairness, I hope you are equally hard on any student that breaks a leg after skiing while rotating. They chose to ski, so really, they don't even deserve a handicap parking space!

I think we live far away from each other, and I'm glad. Having you for a preceptor, pregnant or not, would not be my cup of tea.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

That's absurd. People shouldn't always have everything they want. What about failure to thrive and poverty in general? It's not fair to children.

It's the constant hypocritical complaining from parents that bothers me...

It's not a right to have children? It's pretty inevitable that some need to have children, or else we'll die out as a species. I do think there are people that should have chosen not to have kids, or thought about it more before they did, but we're pretty much wired to reproduce.

My friends with children, and I have lots, chose to have children for the most part during a relatively stable time in their life. It's never perfect, but you can choose better or worse times.

And, honestly, I don't see the complaining from my friends. My one friend had a rough time with her newborn that had colic. It was crazy for awhile. He also had numerous health problems later, too. She and her husband have had to adjust, but they have, and we still see them at events. And they talk about plenty of things but kid stuff. They have rough times, but we talk about them like we'd talk about any other rough part someone goes through in their life.

And my coworkers with older children seem to really enjoy having their children around. I hear about the activities every once in awhile, and it sounds like they enjoy taking their kids to them. I don't hear any more complaining about the kids than I do about spouses, and we all can complain about the people we live with, as differences of opinion will come up.

 

[SHC1984]

Being that pregnancy is a 100% preventable condition, as a preceptor I would be just as hard on you as my other students.

P.s. I also think maternity leave is a very stupid idea for the above reason.

I agree 100% YOU choose to get pregnant. No one is forcing you to get pregnant. (oh if you forget to take your BC that's YOUR fault, not b/c it wasn't your choice!)

I have no problem with having babies and most likely want a child when the time is PERFECT. However, whats annoying to me is people that want children but ARE NOT ready for them, so they expect OTHER PEOPLE to help out and give them special treatment b/c they have children.

If I had a child, I will take full responsibilty for it. I will not expect anyone to give me anything or give me special treatments or whatever just b/c I have a child.

Having a child is like any other thing you choose to have in life, it is YOUR choice, so YOU take 100% responsibility for it. Do not have a child and expect society and everyone else to take care of it for you. And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE never say, I need this special treatment or that special treatment just b/c I have a child! That is BS! You choose to have a child so YOU need to plan for everything you need for that child. No one should have to give you any special treatments.

In short, have a child if you are 100% ready to take the responsbility for everything. If you are not 100% ready, then wait for the time when you are.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Married people complain about their spouses.
Single people complain about their boyfriends/girlfriends or their lack of the same.
Everyone complains about their job.
People without jobs complain about not being able to find one.
Most people complain sometimes about their parents.
People complain about their kids.
People complain about other peoples' kids.
Apparently, some people like to complain about other people complaining.

Take home message: complaining is a fact of life. If you don't like it, tune it out. But good luck, because it's everywhere.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Thanks for your nice thoughts that we should go back to the 1950s and force women to stay at home, raise the kids, and be happy with their lot in life. They certainly can't be more productive members of society than mothers and housecleaners. (Note: IMO, if a woman or man, for that matter, chooses to stay at home, I think that as long as it's the right choice for them and their partners, that's fine with me!).

He's just saying they can't have their cake and eat it, too. If a woman wants to be career oriented, cool. If they want to be family oriented, cool. But they shouldn't whine and insist that they deserve special treatment when people who are 100% career oriented don't want to pick up their slack for the manifestations of an elective medical condition.

Someone just merge this with the baby-argument thread from a few years ago. All of this was expanded and debated in detail.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Married people complain about their spouses.
Single people complain about their boyfriends/girlfriends or their lack of the same.
Everyone complains about their job.
People without jobs complain about not being able to find one.
Most people complain sometimes about their parents.
People complain about their kids.
People complain about other peoples' kids.
Apparently, some people like to complain about other people complaining.

Take home message: complaining is a fact of life. If you don't like it, tune it out. But good luck, because it's everywhere.

And you apparently like to complain about the existence of the concept of complaining.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I agree 100% YOU choose to get pregnant. No one is forcing you to get pregnant. (oh if you forget to take your BC that's YOUR fault, not b/c it wasn't your choice!)

I have no problem with having babies and most likely want a child when the time is PERFECT. However, whats annoying to me is people that want children but ARE NOT ready for them, so they expect OTHER PEOPLE to help out and give them special treatment b/c they have children.

If I had a child, I will take full responsibilty for it. I will not expect anyone to give me anything or give me special treatments or whatever just b/c I have a child.

Having a child is like any other thing you choose to have in life, it is YOUR choice, so YOU take 100% responsibility for it. Do not have a child and expect society and everyone else to take care of it for you. And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE never say, I need this special treatment or that special treatment just b/c I have a child! That is BS! You choose to have a child so YOU need to plan for everything you need for that child. No one you have to give you any special treatments.

In short, have a child if you are 100% ready to take the responsbility for everything. If you are not 100% ready, then wait for the time when you are.

Birth control is not 100% effective, people. You are pharmacists and pharmacy students; I should not have to explain this.

Please, come back and tell me the above after you have a kid, SHC. What are you going to do when you and your husband are both working and your kid comes down with pneumonia? Leave him or her home by themselves?

Or are you just planning on marrying someone with a great job and stay at home? That's nice in theory, but it doesn't always work out like that. And people can lose their jobs. Or you could get divorced. You going to keep your pharmacy license active? How hard do you think it'd be to get a job after being out of work for 5 to 10 years?

We'd have a really sucky economy right now if every woman who had kids chose not to work. That'd get rid of half the work force. And it'd force women to stay in marriages that aren't good for them, their kids, and are potentially abusive. Or force men to either stay in a bad marriage or have to completely support two families. There's a reason we left the 1950s.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

And you apparently like to complain about the existence of the concept of complaining.

No, I don't really care. I usually don't listen when people start whining about stuff. I was responding to the allegation that married people or people with children somehow complain more than the general public. My point was that everyone complains about something.

 

[SHC1984]

He's just saying they can't have their cake and eat it, too. If a woman wants to be career oriented, cool. If they want to be family oriented, cool. But they shouldn't whine and insist that they deserve special treatment when people who are 100% career oriented don't want to pick up their slack for the manifestations of an elective medical condition.

Someone just merge this with the baby-argument thread from a few years ago. All of this was expanded and debated in detail.

WOW I agree with you 150% and I am a woman that might want to have a child in the future...Is that werid? LOL...

I think having a child and not being able to afford it and therefore needing the government to pay for it etc. IS THE SAME as me going out right now and buying a 100K car and not being able to afford that and therefore expecting the government to help me out with that too!

Basically what we are saying is its YOUR LIFE, you choose to do whatever you want with it, but PLEASE take 120% responsibilty for your action. Please please please DO NOT do something and expect society or other people to clean up your mess. This wasn't directed at YOU, it is to anyone that think they can do whatever they want and OTHER PEOPLE should take full responsibility for their actions.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Birth control is not 100% effective, people. You are pharmacists and pharmacy students; I should not have to explain this.

Please, come back and tell me the above after you have a kid, SHC. What are you going to do when you and your husband are both working and your kid comes down with pneumonia? Leave him or her home by themselves?

Or are you just planning on marrying someone with a great job and stay at home? That's nice in theory, but it doesn't always work out like that. And people can lose their jobs. Or you could get divorced. You going to keep your pharmacy license active? How hard do you think it'd be to get a job after being out of work for 5 to 10 years?

We'd have a really sucky economy right now if every woman who had kids chose not to work. That'd get rid of half the work force. And it'd force women to stay in marriages that aren't good for them, their kids, and are potentially abusive. Or force men to either stay in a bad marriage or have to completely support two families. There's a reason we left the 1950s.

There really is no point trying to reason with her. She's already proven that she's totally unwilling to listen to anyone else's viewpoint or accept the fact that she isn't 100% knowledgable about things she's never experienced or dealt with personally. If she wants to wait for everything in life to be PERFECT, let her wait.