Hard Sciences for the NP?

[TheDude_]

Hi everyone!

I am an older non-trad, future wife, and hope-to-be momma (as my name implies jk ). I am highly interested in becoming a NP (CRNA? Psych NP? We shall see!), but upon looking at the curriculum in varying NP programs (both Direct Entry for non-nurses and regular BSN-DNP tracks should I partake in that route), and with as much as I am excited for the career field and the booming opportunities, I am a little disappointed in the lack of "hard sciences" that can otherwise be found in the Medical/PA curricula.

Believe me, I want to become an NP due to the ability to be independent while also having a better work-life balance for my loves at home (and outside interests, like missionary work and volunteering). Is there any kind of Continuing Education for NP's or ability to audit the sciences at a university for the sake of augmenting knowledge (haha)? The more I look at it, I am becoming a "CRNA or bust" kind of gal, but I still want to keep my options open. Finding the opportunities to learn will open those doors for me personally.

Any advice or wisdom (other than, "go to medical school!")? Thanks, you guys!

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[pamac]

You don’t want to hear the most obvious answer, but it really is to go to medical school if you are as concerned about “hard sciences” as you say you are. What else do you want to hear? You also could just go above and beyond and take more sciences on your own.... nothing is stopping you from doing that and adding more time to your journey. Or go be a PA after doing prerequisites or getting a biology degree like most of them have. Regardless of what you choose, your “work life balance” will be significantly upended by deciding to go back to school, hard sciences or not. You could always just not do direct entry, either. That path is really best suited for folks that already have degrees. You have lots of good options. It’s not anyone’s job but your own to force you to expand your knowledge base. I have a biology degree and a lab science degree, in addition to my nursing degrees. It takes about a decade, but I have lots of hard science knowledge as an NP in psyche. I also have a lot of work life balance and make what I consider to be good money. I had to spend a lot of time with much less work life balance to get here, and it cost a lot of money. They don’t give this away for free. Go ahead and get started and feast on the hard sciences.

 

[TheDude_]

Thanks for the reply Pamac!

Money is of no issue, since I have living on dirt for years while saving and also have my GI Bill. So medical school would be no issue.

My only qualm is that the mission field has its greatest need in surgery. I know 100% that surgery (as much as I love the idea of the field) does not fit my idea of a family life :/ My fiancé is 100% supportive, but if I know myself, I would be miserable being at work ALL the time and not investing in my family’s lives. I’ve had my fair share of 80 hour work weeks; that’s no life to live if you have other interests :/

As far as PA school goes, the profession— as great as it is— is not as widely recognized on the mission field. So doing what I am passionate about suddenly becomes very limited.

Becoming a Nurse Practitioner seemed to have *most* of the answers. An area of service that I am most interested in, though not necessarily the education I am as passionate about. You’re exactly right though: education and learning are on the shoulders of the individual, not the institution. So from there, should I decide to go the Nurse route, my knowledge and ability lie on my shoulders. After all, that IS what we all have to do to retain information, right (learning and revising)?

 

[pamac]

I’m partial to the nursing route for practical reasons mostly. To me, it’s perfectly reasonable to choose it for the practical aspects. That being the case, the trade off for that has always been that a lot of burden will be placed upon you to be a self starter and learn as much as you can. Complaining about it invites the perfectly reasonable response of “if you don’t like how that is, pick something else and make other sacrifices”. Having been through NP education, I also see some of the pitfalls for someone that has neither a background in the sciences, or no desire to spend time as a nurse beforehand. Hard work and self study is important.

I can tell you one of the big reasons I like nursing is that it offers checkpoints where you can park yourself if you need to (unless you do direct entry). And one thing you may not know is that for CRNA school, there isn’t a director entry. You’ll need to become a nurse and work in a critical care environment, or else you won’t have much of a chance to get into school. Plan to spend 2 years in an ICU. But anyway, nursing offers a good wage, mobility, a certain degree of respect from society, and time flexibility. And like I said, if you end up having a life event that distracts you, you can always take a break from going at things hard. Nursing school sucks, and don’t expect them to give you any slack because for some reason nursing faculty are mostly insane. But once you are a nurse and pursuing the next phases of your education, things go in phases. I went pretty much straight through except for one stretch to handle some things. Now I’m a psyche NP, and love my job saving lives. It’s exciting and interesting. The whole way I’ve been able to support myself well. I think for the military, there’s a strong nursing culture that would be worthwhile to be part of as well.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

You've discovered the conundrum of midlevels.

NPs have much greater independence, but their poor educational processes do not prepare them for such independence.

PAs have much better educational processes, but have nowhere near the bureaucratically independence.

 

[deleted480308]

Thanks for the reply Pamac!

Money is of no issue, since I have living on dirt for years while saving and also have my GI Bill. So medical school would be no issue.

My only qualm is that the mission field has its greatest need in surgery. I know 100% that surgery (as much as I love the idea of the field) does not fit my idea of a family life :/ My fiancé is 100% supportive, but if I know myself, I would be miserable being at work ALL the time and not investing in my family’s lives. I’ve had my fair share of 80 hour work weeks; that’s no life to live if you have other interests :/

As far as PA school goes, the profession— as great as it is— is not as widely recognized on the mission field. So doing what I am passionate about suddenly becomes very limited.

Becoming a Nurse Practitioner seemed to have *most* of the answers. An area of service that I am most interested in, though not necessarily the education I am as passionate about. You’re exactly right though: education and learning are on the shoulders of the individual, not the institution. So from there, should I decide to go the Nurse route, my knowledge and ability lie on my shoulders. After all, that IS what we all have to do to retain information, right (learning and revising)?

You want to be an Np on the mission field? Are they accepted there?

 

[Boatswain2PA]

You want to be an Np on the mission field? Are they accepted there?

Generally yes, as a nurse

 

[TheDude_]

You want to be an Np on the mission field? Are they accepted there?

Yes! Not full time since children are near-rocks lol. But having a career where I can occasionally do missionary work— maybe even full time once the husband and I are old — has always been my passion. I worked in Biblical Translation in the past, but I would rather work in this area in addition to not being limited to “asking for money.” No, I would rather pay my way and go to a place in need. Additionally, there is so much humanitarian aide that is not limited to a religious service.

Generally speaking, PA’s are not universally accepted. GP’s and NP’s go often. And anything in surgery has the greatest need (makes sense.... surgeons work SO much, have debt, and lose their souls and passion in residency lol). This is a small aspect to why I am thinking that CRNA is the best career this world offers.

Thank you again everyone for the insight. Overall, I am NOT a fan of nursing school (but who is?!); however, I think enjoying the journey along the way accounts for much. And getting the “stops” along the way is appealing— especially as a future mom. Thank you again everyone for the replies! It adds perspective and helps me in knowing what to expect/who I want to become.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Generally yes, as a nurse

When you say "As a nurse" do you mean like with the duties of an RN-nurse?

 

[keolu hills]

Thanks for the reply Pamac!

Money is of no issue, since I have living on dirt for years while saving and also have my GI Bill. So medical school would be no issue.

My only qualm is that the mission field has its greatest need in surgery. I know 100% that surgery (as much as I love the idea of the field) does not fit my idea of a family life :/ My fiancé is 100% supportive, but if I know myself, I would be miserable being at work ALL the time and not investing in my family’s lives. I’ve had my fair share of 80 hour work weeks; that’s no life to live if you have other interests :/

As far as PA school goes, the profession— as great as it is— is not as widely recognized on the mission field. So doing what I am passionate about suddenly becomes very limited.

Becoming a Nurse Practitioner seemed to have *most* of the answers. An area of service that I am most interested in, though not necessarily the education I am as passionate about. You’re exactly right though: education and learning are on the shoulders of the individual, not the institution. So from there, should I decide to go the Nurse route, my knowledge and ability lie on my shoulders. After all, that IS what we all have to do to retain information, right (learning and revising)?

You can do mission work as a Physician Assistant. Talk to a guy with the username EMEDPA. He is on the Physician Assistant Forum. He is a physician assistant who does a lot of overseas work. Here is the link: Professional PA General Discussion

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Hi everyone!

I am an older non-trad

How old are you btw?

 

[Boatswain2PA]

When you say "As a nurse" do you mean like with the duties of an RN-nurse?

Yes. Everyone on the planet knows what a doctor is (well, except for some NPs here who claim they are doctors), and what a nurse is, so they have acceptable legal roles in every country.

PAs and NPs don't have that. Most places don't really know what they are.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Since we're talking about mission work and I really have no idea how it works, can Emergency Physicians do this? Or is it more for General Surgeons/Family/Internal Medicine generalists?

 

[pamac]

Since we're talking about mission work and I really have no idea how it works, can Emergency Physicians do this? Or is it more for General Surgeons/Family/Internal Medicine generalists?

I know ER docs who go on mission trips all the time. Actually, those folks are typically in pretty high demand (if not the highest), especially in place where there are natural disasters or simply primary care needs (which is everywhere, right?). There are organizations like operation smile that fix cleft palates, and obviously maxillofacial surgeons are going to be your primarily valuable docs to being onboard. They might only utilize a certain provider based on need, specialty, and what the organization is set up to accommodate. I have a non medical friend that does some volunteering for them in the field, so I’m sure there is work to do, but you obviously wouldn’t want someone like an ER doc twiddling their thumbs, so you’d either find a role or suggest an org that fits their skill set so it’s not wasted. But I’d think that physicians would be highly prized at the top of the list somewhere. And since mission work is typically in places with needs and little regulation, you tend to see the ability to branch out a bit from just the scope of your specialty, in the case of physicians. So if you are a renal specialist, but can wield your stethoscope in a way that lets you diagnose everyday urgent care stuff, or even assist in a procedure with another doc, I’m sure many orgs would be thrilled to have you along.

There’s truth to what was said about the world “knowing what nurses and doctors are”. What that means is that their roles are pretty easy to wrap one’s head around and fit well into what workers other countries have in their healthcare systems, so they are easiest to bring onboard to do work overseas. The non physician provider role isn’t as universally recognized, so some organizations don’t jump at the chance to take them onboard because their role isn’t always as clear to them. Where NPs have the advantage in some regard is that they also are nurses. So Doctors Without Borders for instance, will let NPs onboard as nurses for the most part, but also has been taking them on in their NP role. But in war torn areas, you could easily see NPs working in their role due to the care being directly provided right at that time.

As a PA, there are literally tons of opportunities. If one organization doesn’t know how to fit you in, there are many more that do. They go overseas to help out all the time. If Doctors Without Borders won’t take you, rest assured that many more probably will. The same goes fo NPs, if they happen to run into the same kind of problems. If an organization only knows how to use you as an RN, find one that will use you in your role as a practitioner at the top of your scope.

 

[d2305]

I looked at volunteering but they didn't want me. OK fine.