MD & DO Goro’s guide to success in medical school (2017 ed.)

[mehc012]

I was under the understanding that assigned chapters is a subset of textbooks. Why don't you do a write up to help people not use instructor provided /directed material.

I might read the assigned chapters. Honestly don't know...I've never checked to see what the assignments were.
If you're going to redefine 'school resources' as 'anything in the list of 12,000 things the school lists as being possible resources', than you have probably been from my school's resources, lol. And you have as much knowledge as I do about which parts of your study plan qualifies.

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[.hematoma.]

Why don't you do a write up to help people not use instructor provided /directed material.

I think Sattar and sketchy took care of that one.

 

[libertyyne]

I think Sattar and sketchy took care of that one.

That is for boards. @mehc012 seems to be performing well on instructor written exams by just reading textbooks.

 

[mehc012]

That is for boards. @mehc012 seems to be performing well on instructor written exams by just reading textbooks.

In all fairness, our exams aren't multiple choice, so as long as you understand the material well enough to discuss it, you can do well. I read primary literature and textbooks that cover the concepts our small groups focus on so I'm able to have a halfway-decent conversation during them, and then I do board prep materials with extra in depth readings from texts when I don't understand something to cover the systems as a whole that our block exams are supposed to be about.

 

[LittleFoot]

Since we are strictly talking about medical school success, board scores do actually matter, a lot. However worthless you feel high board scores may be in predicting success as a resident, it will absolutely open more doors, offering more opportunities to train at higher quality programs, in more desireable locations.

Just wanted to point that out since medical school success includes matching into one’s preferred specialty and at their preferred program during 4th year.

 

[Goro]

Since we are strictly talking about medical school success, board scores do actually matter, a lot. However worthless you feel high board scores may be in predicting success as a resident, it will absolutely open more doors, offering more opportunities to train at higher quality programs, in more desireable locations.

Just wanted to point that out since medical school success includes matching into one’s preferred specialty and at their preferred program during 4th year.

‘You know, you never beat us on the battlefield,’ I told my North Vietnamese counterpart during negotiations in Hanoi a week before the fall of Saigon. He pondered that remark a moment and then replied, ‘That may be so, but it is also irrelevant.’
Col. Harry Summers

I would have thought that after six pages of thread, that people would understand that I was giving advice for the pre-clinical years.

 

[LittleFoot]

‘You know, you never beat us on the battlefield,’ I told my North Vietnamese counterpart during negotiations in Hanoi a week before the fall of Saigon. He pondered that remark a moment and then replied, ‘That may be so, but it is also irrelevant.’
Col. Harry Summers

I would have thought that after six pages of thread, that people would understand that I was giving advice for the pre-clinical years.

So doing well on boards has nothing to do with the pre-clinical years. Okay, Gotcha.

 

[Goro]

So doing well on boards has nothing to do with the pre-clinical years. Okay, Gotcha.

Have you read anything in this thread??? Applying Ignore function now.

 

[sammiesings]

Why are there people being so rude? Sdn isn't goros job and yet they went well out of their way to write up what their experience with students has taught them about doing well in med school/pre clinical years.

If you don't agree, move on.

Also, don't reply with some bs about trying to "save other students from misleading information." Which one of us hasnt had to sit through "tips on how to do well in my class!!!1!!1!11" sessions in med school?

A) if you can't decipher what is misleading on your own without some internet hero pointing it out for you, then you got bigger problems. B) Idk bout y'all but I don't disrespect my instructor's in that setting when I disagree with them. This is the online equivalent of that. Take what applies/helps, move on. C) We all study/learn differently anyway so moot point on all of it anyway. Everyone needs to take all advice with a grain of salt and spend a larger amount of time figuring it out on their own

 

[LittleFoot]

Have you read anything in this thread??? Applying Ignore function now.

LOL. Goro, you are a real character - It’s actually quite endearing.

 

[Crayola227]

So doing well on boards has nothing to do with the pre-clinical years. Okay, Gotcha.

Doing well in the pre-clinical years is more than trying to do well on the boards.

That's the point.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Buy textbooks? LOL never.

Attend class? NO!

FA is "full" of errors? Again, laughable. You will find errors in FA, but they are not as many as Goro pretends there to be. Will there be stuff in boards that you have never heard of? Well, this will definitely be the case for COMLEX. In fact, there will be things your school didn't teach you at all. However, now that the game is USMLE, your best sources are FA and UWorld for boards. Second tier are Pathoma and Sketchy. Third tier is pretty much everything else. Plenty of students score 250+ by using just UFAPS method. Don't be delusional into thinking you're going to memorize something fall of 1st year from some random lecture and recall it with perfection by board time. It's much better to be 100% on 90-95% of the material (which is UFAPS) than to be weaker because you try to spread yourself too thin covering everything.

 

[sammiesings]

Buy textbooks? LOL never.

Attend class? NO!

FA is "full" of errors? Again, laughable. You will find errors in FA, but they are not as many as Goro pretends there to be. Will there be stuff in boards that you have never heard of? Well, this will definitely be the case for COMLEX. In fact, there will be things your school didn't teach you at all. However, now that the game is USMLE, your best sources are FA and UWorld for boards. Second tier are Pathoma and Sketchy. Third tier is pretty much everything else. Plenty of students score 250+ by using just UFAPS method. Don't be delusional into thinking you're going to memorize something fall of 1st year from some random lecture and recall it with perfection by board time. It's much better to be 100% on 90-95% of the material (which is UFAPS) than to be weaker because you try to spread yourself too thin covering everything.

Frankly, goro is most useful to pre-DO students. He's not useful to MD students, imo, because our lecturers are a different breed with different expectations. Also, he's completely useless for boards and beyond.

He's like all of our preclinical profs who want to extend their opinions further than their purview though. I don't take much of my own set of preclinical profs boards advice and I definitely won't be taking goro's.

Honestly think we should all just ignore this because I feel like he's over stepping and will continue to do so as long as people engage and give him attention.

 

[Goro]

I wouldn’t say preclinical lecturers are a different breed at our school. I will agree with the other stuff though. Goro seems like a caring dude who is passionate about this forum & medical education and he’s free to post as he likes. I do caution medical students that his advice seems to just be stuff he hears from common users on the forum and sometimes he gives the wrong advice for the circumstance. It’s very similar to a mid level who knows the common issues and blanketedly treats them. Additionally, I’ve recently been put off by what I perceive to be callous downplaying of problems in med school and I’ve gotten an uncomfortable vibe about what he actually thinks of medical students. All that being said, he was somewhat helpful in the pre-med forum.

What did you do to get on the Bad Boy list?

 

[Redpancreas]

What did you do to get on the Bad Boy list?

Something I regret but nothing super serious.

 

[Goro]

Something I regret but nothing super serious.

I can sympathize...been there myself.

 

[sammiesings]

I wish you hadn't deleted that post, @Syncrohnize bc you raise some really important points. I think it needs to be said and really digested by users, especially new ones.

 

[calivianya]

Just saying... why don't more schools make the required textbooks available online for free for the students? One of the places I interviewed specifically mentions they do that - you can download any book, any chapter, anytime, and the school had 100% free unlimited printing so you could print out the entire textbook if you felt like it with no consequences.

We are already paying a horrendous amount of money per year... how about some of that money purchases the textbooks for us, so we have access to 100% of the material without having additional out of pocket costs?

 

[Goro]

Just saying... why don't more schools make the required textbooks available online for free for the students? One of the places I interviewed specifically mentions they do that - you can download any book, any chapter, anytime, and the school had 100% free unlimited printing so you could print out the entire textbook if you felt like it with no consequences.

We are already paying a horrendous amount of money per year... how about some of that money purchases the textbooks for us, so we have access to 100% of the material without having additional out of pocket costs?

This is a great question. Personally, I'd LOVE to hear what the presidents of Stanford and Harvard would have to say about this, especially since they're sitting on endowments of about one billion dollars (that's billion with a B).

But it probably has to do with costs. Your typical MD school will actually loses money on tuition. A decent academic department can make more in indirects from intramural grants than can be had from an entire class of M1's.

 

[calivianya]

This is a great question. Personally, I'd LOVE to hear what the presidents of Stanford and Harvard would have to say about this, especially since they're sitting on endowments of about one billion dollars (that's billion with a B).

But it probably has to do with costs. Your typical MD school will actually loses money on tuition. A decent academic department can make more in indirects from intramural grants than can be had from an entire class of M1's.

I'd be okay with paying a couple thousand dollars more per semester for this type of thing, honestly. Especially if the textbooks were true online documents as opposed to just PDF/pictures, and they were searchable. That would save so much time and effort.

 

[mehc012]

I'd be okay with paying a couple thousand dollars more per semester for this type of thing, honestly. Especially if the textbooks were true online documents as opposed to just PDF/pictures, and they were searchable. That would save so much time and effort.

Absolutely feel the opposite. Every textbook I've ever wanted has been findable online, with full text in searchable pdf format. I HATE the online documents, those are a PITA, require logins and internet connection, and I can't annotate them. And I'm not gonna pay a few thousand extra for something I can find for free.

Our school has most textbooks in online format, and I can't stand it. I've never bothered doing any readings in those, I immediately search for the good .pdf files and refuse to ever use the online formats.

 

[PreMedHeart]

Came here for some insight before starting medical school and mostly got 6 pages of people arguing about how they think you should study for boards.

If it's worth anything, @Goro I liked and appreciated your insight.

 

[Goro]

Came here for some insight before starting medical school and mostly got 6 pages of people arguing about how they think you should study for boards.

If it's worth anything, @Goro I liked and appreciated your insight.

I guess for some people, FA is a belief system, not not merely a study guide.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I guess for some people, FA is a belief system, not not merely a study guide.

FWIW, I know a few people doing great in med school who don't use FA at all.

 

[mehc012]

FWIW, I know a few people doing great in med school who don't use FA at all.

I barely used it in M1/2. Clearly going to delve into it for Step, but so far it hasn't featured prominently. Except for Micro/Immuno, that was just pure memorization and I decided that if I was going to do it at all, I was going to do it the way I'd need to later for Step study.

 

[libertyyne]

I barely used it in M1/2. Clearly going to delve into it for Step, but so far it hasn't featured prominently. Except for Micro/Immuno, that was just pure memorization and I decided that if I was going to do it at all, I was going to do it the way I'd need to later for Step study.

I didnt own one in m1.

 

[Newyawk]

Most students that I knew who used first aid early on in med school had this idea that all they needed to know was in that book. Most were very weak students - some because of laziness, others misguided, and a few had to resort to superficial resources bc of hectic lives outside of class (children, etc). Regardless, most of them just made it past each class and subsequently did poorly on step 1 too, ironically i guess (but not ironic if you know how to actually succeed in preclinical years).
IMO, not only will superficial learning hurt you in classes and on step, it will also hurt you come clinicals.

 

[Goro]

Most students that I knew who used first aid early on in med school had this idea that all they needed to know was in that book. Most were very weak students - some because of laziness, others misguided, and a few had to resort to superficial resources bc of hectic lives outside of class (children, etc). Regardless, most of them just made it past each class and subsequently did poorly on step 1 too, ironically i guess (but not ironic if you know how to actually succeed in preclinical years).
IMO, not only will superficial learning hurt you in classes and on step, it will also hurt you come clinicals.

I just browsed through FA-2018, and sure enough....bunch of things are in there that are not important, and missing some things that ARE important. And a couple of things in error. It seems like the clean up errors every year, only to have new ones pop up. I supposet they'll have messed up and then fixed the entire book 2x over by 2030.

 

[mehc012]

I didnt own one in m1.

I mean, I've never owned one and probably won't for Step either, but...I own a computer and the internet so I can't say I never looked through it. As I said, it was useful in Micro/Immuno, which for us was the last block of M2.

 

[libertyyne]

I just browsed through FA-2018, and sure enough....bunch of things are in there that are not important, and missing some things that ARE important. And a couple of things in error. It seems like the clean up errors every year, only to have new ones pop up. I supposet they'll have messed up and then fixed the entire book 2x over by 2030.

submit the error. You get your name in the authors list, if you are the first person to do so.

 

[mistafab]

245 on step one chiming in.

FA was pretty worthless for me IMO. Most of the book is just too basic. They don’t ask questions mostly from facts like that. I read through it once and did not think it would be HY to hit it up again. On test day I am glad I didn’t.

245 isn’t the BEST score, but it is a good score and I definitely think I maximized my potential. I definitely DID read textbooks during ms2 and it really did help me nail path. I purchased robbins basic path and it was well worth it for me. I learn well from reading so this may not be true for everyone.

I hit up pathoma once during ms2 per block, and once again at the start of dedicated. That was really good overall, but not really helpful enough for me to hit it another pass. Sketchy was a good resource learning all the bugs, but after doing the first run through you basically memorize all the key bugs and then it is just a waste to rehash it or redo sketchy at all because you have derived what you needed. So sketchy was HY for a first pass but less useful later on when you already know the basics about every bug off the top. I thought people using sketchy during dedicated were probably wasting time.

For me, the biggest and most important resource during step one was definitely uworld. No freaking doubt. Uworld was king.

During preclinical years, USMLERx was a good resource for me to run through before exams per block just to really nail down all the basics of the stuff that we had learned. I would highly recommend a question bank to students to use at the end of blocks just to reinforce their learning and have a victory lap with all the HY basics.

So my recommendations are as follows:
1) Do as many “first passes” as you can with different materials
2) Stop trying to memorize everything when you are first exposed to it. Memorization comes with practice questions - so get a question bank or use some flash cards.
3) If you are studying, make sure you study. Any minute you spend NOT studying during your study time eats away at the time you actually get to relax when you are NOT studying. We all know that it feels better to relax after work than relaxing during work. This is probably the most important factor for mental health during school. It also removes the “guilt” from relaxing after you finish all your work.
4) listen to goro. We as students understand OUR experience very well, but goro has seen the experience of hundreds of us and can definitely point out trends. If it doesn’t apply to you, great. No one is the average, but many can learn from the average.

TLDR - Take 1 pass on the textbook if you learn from reading/notetaking. Do a question bank or flash cards during preclinicals to reinforce your knowledge. Don’t overestimate the usefulness of FA or sketchy. Do use pathoma to review after you have learned the material. Yes, Uworld is king. Yes, watch lectures.

 

[shouldvestudied]

I just browsed through FA-2018, and sure enough....bunch of things are in there that are not important, and missing some things that ARE important. And a couple of things in error. It seems like the clean up errors every year, only to have new ones pop up. I supposet they'll have messed up and then fixed the entire book 2x over by 2030.

Can you provide an example of something important that is missing from FA?

 

[Redpancreas]

245 on step one chiming in.

FA was pretty worthless for me IMO. Most of the book is just too basic. They don’t ask questions mostly from facts like that. I read through it once and did not think it would be HY to hit it up again. On test day I am glad I didn’t.

245 isn’t the BEST score, but it is a good score and I definitely think I maximized my potential. I definitely DID read textbooks during ms2 and it really did help me nail path. I purchased robbins basic path and it was well worth it for me. I learn well from reading so this may not be true for everyone.

I hit up pathoma once during ms2 per block, and once again at the start of dedicated. That was really good overall, but not really helpful enough for me to hit it another pass. Sketchy was a good resource learning all the bugs, but after doing the first run through you basically memorize all the key bugs and then it is just a waste to rehash it or redo sketchy at all because you have derived what you needed. So sketchy was HY for a first pass but less useful later on when you already know the basics about every bug off the top. I thought people using sketchy during dedicated were probably wasting time.

For me, the biggest and most important resource during step one was definitely uworld. No freaking doubt. Uworld was king.

During preclinical years, USMLERx was a good resource for me to run through before exams per block just to really nail down all the basics of the stuff that we had learned. I would highly recommend a question bank to students to use at the end of blocks just to reinforce their learning and have a victory lap with all the HY basics.

So my recommendations are as follows:
1) Do as many “first passes” as you can with different materials
2) Stop trying to memorize everything when you are first exposed to it. Memorization comes with practice questions - so get a question bank or use some flash cards.
3) If you are studying, make sure you study. Any minute you spend NOT studying during your study time eats away at the time you actually get to relax when you are NOT studying. We all know that it feels better to relax after work than relaxing during work. This is probably the most important factor for mental health during school. It also removes the “guilt” from relaxing after you finish all your work.
4) listen to goro. We as students understand OUR experience very well, but goro has seen the experience of hundreds of us and can definitely point out trends. If it doesn’t apply to you, great. No one is the average, but many can learn from the average.

TLDR - Take 1 pass on the textbook if you learn from reading/notetaking. Do a question bank or flash cards during preclinicals to reinforce your knowledge. Don’t overestimate the usefulness of FA or sketchy. Do use pathoma to review after you have learned the material. Yes, Uworld is king. Yes, watch lectures.

I think this is not only very good, but very honest advice. When people tag 2x, 3x to the end of resource recommendations (Sketchyx2, UWorldx3), I feel like there's an element of exaggeration involved.

 

[Redpancreas]

Can you provide an example of something important that is missing from FA?

What's missing in First Aid? The prose that explains everything! I've often spent at least an hour trying to understand diagrams to FA, then posted on the Q&A forums on here, and then oftentimes give up only later coming back to it as after learning the unit in my curriculum to realize I was misinterpreting what the table was saying.

As for specific topics, I think First Aid's pretty comprehensive as any commercial (non-affiliated resource could ever be) but it is still a student's response to the USMLE, it doesn't dictate the content of the USMLE and that's its weakness that Operaman hinted at in his post in the MD Forums today. UWorld is the same way, but the difference is it written in prose to explain a mechanism or reasonng to ensure you understand concepts that you can apply to other scenarios.

In other words, you know that epic study guide someone always makes for exams. People hype it up but when you obtain it after a few minutes in, you're like this is garbage, I can't just read this...that's the issue with just reading First Aid.

 

[mehc012]

submit the error. You get your name in the authors list, if you are the first person to do so.

Ehh, I've caught a few errata in there, and a) I always assume some gunner found it 30s after the books hit the shelves b) I don't care about having my name in there. But damn is it gratifying to realize you know something well enough to question The One True Resource™

 

[libertyyne]

Ehh, I've caught a few errata in there, and a) I always assume some gunner found it 30s after the books hit the shelves b) I don't care about having my name in there. But damn is it gratifying to realize you know something well enough to question The One True Resource™

Its an asymmetric bet. It takes you 5 minutes to submit an error, if a gunner found it before, 5 minutes wasted, if not you get your name on there and you help future gen of medical students. Small price with a possibly lopsided return.

 

[Redpancreas]

Its an asymmetric bet. It takes you 5 minutes to submit an error, if a gunner found it before, 5 minutes wasted, if not you get your name on there and you help future gen of medical students. Small price with a possibly lopsided return.

He runs the risk of someone trying to Dox him after getting their hands on 2019 edition.

 

[libertyyne]

He runs the risk of someone trying to Dox him after getting their hands on 2019 edition.

he doesn't need to confirm to us that he submitted an error report. I was mostly speaking to mehc012 though.

 

[mehc012]

Its an asymmetric bet. It takes you 5 minutes to submit an error, if a gunner found it before, 5 minutes wasted, if not you get your name on there and you help future gen of medical students. Small price with a possibly lopsided return.

It'd take me more than 5min because I'd have to look up how/where to do it, double check myself several times to make sure I was right, etc. Besides, it's less the time and more that I'd have to make myself care and actually go do something about it. And the return is...nothing. What, so I get my name printed in an edition of FA that I'll never use or see. Why would I care?

 

[libertyyne]

It'd take me more than 5min because I'd have to look up how/where to do it, double check myself several times to make sure I was right, etc. Besides, it's less the time and more that I'd have to make myself care and actually go do something about it. And the return is...nothing. What, so I get my name printed in an edition of FA that I'll never use or see. Why would I care?

I dont want to derail the thread, Its an easy thing that gets added as a line item on the old cv? Different rubrics obviously for different people. In the time it took you to respond to both of my comments you could have fired it off.

 

[mehc012]

I dont want to derail the thread, Its an easy thing that gets added as a line item on the old cv? Different rubrics obviously for different people. In the time it took you to respond to both of my comments you could have fired it off.

lolol I'm sure that'd get me the residency slot. And doubtful.

 

[libertyyne]

lolol I'm sure that'd get me the residency slot. And doubtful.

you ever wonder what 20+ publications actually looks like for a medical student? Its non sense like this.

 

[mehc012]

you ever wonder what 20+ publications actually looks like for a medical student? Its non sense like this.

Good, then I'll continue not aiming for 20+ publications and I'll continue judging the sh¡t out of anyone who puts an FA errata down as a pub. Like, I know it's not quite the right word but it just strikes me as...petty.

 

[olderbrooklyndoc]

@Goro, I just finished my first year of medical school, and while I have yet to take Step 1 or gain real clinical experience, I really appreciate your suggestions. Textbooks may not work for everyone, but they were very helpful for me and many of my classmates who did well this year (especially Robbins and Gray's), mostly because the more depth at which I learned something the first time, the stronger my retention. Our school had online versions for free. However, I found it was not very expensive to buy the hard copies from MS2s, and that my eyes appreciated a break from a screen. Additionally, getting to know professors as people and feeling comfortable asking them questions when I was confused was one of the things that both really solidified my learning and made classes 1000X more enjoyable. I wasn't always able to be prepared for class everyday (the firehose analogy is real, and I needed to take breaks and practice self-care sometimes), but I also learned way more when I was able to read the textbook chapters before class and come in with a foundation I could build upon.

First Aid is a useful cheat sheet resource to use for rapid review, to refer to if you forget a pathway, or to use as a basis for Tier 1 flashcards to test yourself on basic knowledge, but it is insufficient to understand the connections between material, so I would encourage students to rely upon other resources that do this for them.