MD & DO Goro’s guide to success in medical school (2017 ed.)

[Goro]

The LCME needs to mandate something for optional lecture attendance. The people at the top of my school who make all the rules are all a bunch of pHDs and have no idea of the time constraints or amount of material a medical student has to get through. I believe they are of the thought "well that's how it's always been done here". Some of these same people who mandate the attendance are preclinical professors, and I think they don't want their egos to be hurt from lecturing to an empty classroom, so they care more about that than student wellbeing. It definitely hurt me during the first 2 years having to go to class every single day.

MD school?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[P0ke]

MD school?

Yeah

 

[12glaucoma34]

The LCME needs to mandate something for optional lecture attendance. The people at the top of my school who make all the rules are all a bunch of pHDs and have no idea of the time constraints or amount of material a medical student has to get through. I believe they are of the thought "well that's how it's always been done here". Some of these same people who mandate the attendance are preclinical professors, and I think they don't want their egos to be hurt from lecturing to an empty classroom, so they care more about that than student wellbeing. It definitely hurt me during the first 2 years having to go to class every single day.

I don't agree with a single governing body making a universal set of rules for how medical schools instruct students.

I do agree that schools requiring lecture attendance aren't doing their students any benefit.

 

[cellsaver]

MD school?

This is the internet so there is that to consider

When I created my SDN account I used my school .edu account.
I have concluded that many SDN members are not medical students in the USA and many more are people wanting attention. They have a platform: "hear me roar"

I just read a few articles on the situation in Venezuela including a video presentation US Senator Marco Rubio delivered to the people of Venezuela in Spanish

It is heartbreaking to know Venezuela's people are going without food, medical resources and people being dragged out of their homes in the stealth of night and killed by Dictator Maduro's people

I dont know about some of you USA medical students but regardless of my heavy study load, ever looming exams, running on 4 hours of sleep per night and insane medical system demonstrating how broken it is, weve got it good in America. My state university medical school looks like the Taj Mahal.

We dont know what suffering is in America

 

[Goro]

Yeah

Can you share? PM me. I want to find what penal colony that is.

 

[username456789]

This is the internet so there is that to consider

When I created my SDN account I used my school .edu account.
I have concluded that many SDN members are not medical students in the USA and many more are people wanting attention. They have a platform: "hear me roar"

I just read a few articles on the situation in Venezuela including a video presentation US Senator Marco Rubio delivered to the people of Venezuela in Spanish

It is heartbreaking to know Venezuela's people are going without food, medical resources and people being dragged out of their homes in the stealth of night and killed by Dictator Maduro's people

I dont know about some of you USA medical students but regardless of my heavy study load, ever looming exams, running on 4 hours of sleep per night and insane medical system demonstrating how broken it is, weve got it good in America. My state university medical school looks like the Taj Mahal.

We dont know what suffering is in America

I thought you already played your "eat your vegetables, there are starving kids in Venezuela" card on this thread earlier.

It's noteworthy that this tactic rarely works, and is wholly counterproductive in such conversations. You don't get to shut down someone's discussion on how things could be improved by shouting "just be happy you're not THAT guy!"

 

[B_52]

This may be a painfully obvious question to ask, but what does FA stand for?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[kb1900]

This may be a painfully obvious question to ask, but what does FA stand for?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

First Aid

 

[Med student 18]

used lecturio

 

[Med student 18]

SDN,

I'm a lowly M0 right now. I'd like to piggyback off of comments @Dandine made as a way of asking for advice. I'd like to focus on exams instead of Step 1 during my first three semesters of medical school. So I don't plan on buying USMLE-Rx, Kaplan QBank, UWorld, or NBMEs for a long, long time.

This is what I did for undergraduate classes... I read Kaplan subject books to preview material before it was taught in class. Next, I used lecture notes as my primary learning tool. Then, I completed old TBR end-of-chapter practice questions a week before a test. The old TBR questions were not very MCAT-like, which was good. I benefited from the fact that the old TBR questions didn't integrate concepts from other disciplines. This helped me make sure I was simply studying for my test and not the MCAT. When I started my MCAT prep I had a good foundation from classes, so I was able to spend a lot of time doing questions instead of reviewing.

For the M1 year, does anyone recommend using the Kaplan Step 1 Lecture Notes to preview and review material? For practice questions the week before exams, I'm thinking of using either Lecturio or Osmosis to help me prepare for tests. Does anybody recommend using the questions either of these two companies make for individual subjects? I'll make sure to ask upperclassmen what they recommend. However, based on the lack of posts about Kaplan I don't think anybody here recommends their prep books for medical school.

- BH

I used lecturio and it was baller

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So happy USU doesn't have mandatory lecture.

 

[Jabbed]

This is the internet so there is that to consider

When I created my SDN account I used my school .edu account.
I have concluded that many SDN members are not medical students in the USA and many more are people wanting attention. They have a platform: "hear me roar"

I just read a few articles on the situation in Venezuela including a video presentation US Senator Marco Rubio delivered to the people of Venezuela in Spanish

It is heartbreaking to know Venezuela's people are going without food, medical resources and people being dragged out of their homes in the stealth of night and killed by Dictator Maduro's people

I dont know about some of you USA medical students but regardless of my heavy study load, ever looming exams, running on 4 hours of sleep per night and insane medical system demonstrating how broken it is, weve got it good in America. My state university medical school looks like the Taj Mahal.

We dont know what suffering is in America

lolwut

 

[ChrisMack390]

@Goro I'm curious - the students you mention who don't do so well and only study out of boards review materials, are they not doing so well because your school is making them take exams on material that is much more extensive than what would be seen on boards? And are they not doing so well because your school has grades that are actually relevant (either grades or alleged "pass/fail" that is ranked)?

 

[Goro]

@Goro I'm curious - the students you mention who don't do so well and only study out of boards review materials, are they not doing so well because your school is making them take exams on material that is much more extensive than what would be seen on boards? And are they not doing so well because your school has grades that are actually relevant (either grades or alleged "pass/fail" that is ranked)?

Good question. We're not a P/F school, for starters.

This cohort of students does poorly across multiple disciplines, so it's unlikely that minutiae is killing them. More telling is that weak students also are more likely to get very easy questions wrong. All students will get hard things wrong, and all students , even the best will space out on something easy at times, but the weakest student simply get more things wrongs!

When you call them in and ask them "how are you studying? What resources are you using?" ...the answers tend to be uniform year after year.

When I go to medical education meetings and talk to colleagues who are on Faculty at Really Top Schools, I hear the same things about their weakest students! And no, I'm not talking about someone at Stanford who is getting an avg of 83 in the Class, either.

Cue the FA evangelists to come in, sputtering about their 250 on Step I.

 

[libertyyne]

Good question. We're not a P/F school, for starters.

This cohort of students does poorly across multiple disciplines, so it's unlikely that minutiae is killing them. More telling is that weak students also are more likely to get very easy questions wrong. All students will get hard things wrong, and all students , even the best will space out on something easy at times, but the weakest student simply get more things wrongs!

When you call them in and ask them "how are you studying? What resources are you using?" ...the answers tend to be uniform year after year.

When I go to medical education meetings and talk to colleagues who are on Faculty at Really Top Schools, I hear the same things about their weakest students! And no, I'm not talking about someone at Stanford who is getting an avg of 83 in the Class, either.

Cue the FA evangelists to come in, sputtering about their 250 on Step I.

Are your exams instructor written or NBME? It seems like an absurd strategy to rely on FA if the exams are instructor written, (then the course pack becomes FA).

 

[Goro]

Are your exams instructor written or NBME? It seems like an absurd strategy to rely on FA if the exams are instructor written, (then the course pack becomes FA).

Yes to both, but we use NMBE sparingly.

 

[libertyyne]

Yes to both, but we use NMBE sparingly.

That sounds like a recipe for disaster for people just using FA. Coursepack is god, even if you dont like it, when instructors are writing the exams. Doesnt take an Einstein to figure out that FA is not high yield then. The complaint in that instance should come from your high performers saying they want more focus on board prep/materials.

 

[Goro]

That sounds like a recipe for disaster for people just using FA. Coursepack is god, even if you dont like it, when instructors are writing the exams. Doesnt take an Einstein to figure out that FA is not high yield then. The complaint in that instance should come from your high performers saying they want more focus on board prep/materials.

We give all the students exactly that (in bold). We have no problem teaching to the Boards. After all, the kids can't be doctors without passing COMLEX. Yet the bottom-most students just have habit that we can't seem to get them to break.

 

[ChrisMack390]

If your weaker students are getting "very easy" questions incorrect, that seems to be a problem that would not be solved by their studying from a different set of materials. Presumably by "very easy" you mean superficial/not heavily detailed, and that should be in First Aid, right?

 

[Goro]

If your weaker students are getting "very easy" questions incorrect, that seems to be a problem that would not be solved by their studying from a different set of materials. Presumably by "very easy" you mean superficial/not heavily detailed, and that should be in First Aid, right?

Correct...the low hanging fruit, so to speak. Like knowing the direction of blood flow in the superior vena cava.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Correct...the low hanging fruit, so to speak. Like knowing the direction of blood flow in the superior vena cava.

In that case I would posit that the students are you describing probably don't "exclusively study" from First Aid as much as they "glance over first aid and then take the exam"

 

[libertyyne]

In that case I would posit that the students are you describing probably don't "exclusively study" from First Aid as much as they "glance over first aid and then take the exam"

Sounds like they dont study at all.

We have instructor written exams. Using first aid to study for them could result in failure, but more than likely result would be a low pass or a marginal pass. If there is considerable overlap in board materials and the exam content.

 

[pianoo]

[..] (unlike MPQ) and demonstrate some knowledge, keen interest and ask "dumb" questions that reflect hunger. Those add fodder for a LOR. Studying just for Step 1 regardless of the resource cheapens you. Going the extra mile to research the MOA of Metformin to understand why it is being investigated for cancer, how pathways like mTOR, JAK-STAT, MAP-Kinase, etc open cytokine therapies as plausible options, all these build a foundation to have those conversations with far smarter / driven physicians who have power and influence on an aspiring physician's career. It isnt just Step 1 that serves as a metric. Your interactions with key physicians can open opportunities down the way.

A Hem-Onc MD/PhD Faculty PI is blazing a trail on molecular targeted therapies. He is all over the molecular pathways when it comes to Mab (particularly Herceptin), Tyrosine Kinase Inhibitors (e.g. Gefitinib) and others. His knowledge is beyond impressive. His confidence is palpable. His humility intact because he laments there is so much we dont know in medicine.

When he is in my presence I stand at attention, am very measured with my words and ask questions apologetically because I seek understanding. His answer: "most physicians dont even know these pathways but at least you are interested. Keep at it"

Rotations and Residency are a great leveler of egos. How you present yourself is really key, i.e. interpersonal skills. Witness the cavalier contempt some display on these boards towards experienced Attending Physicians, SOM Admins, people who are here to help others. Character matters far more than Board scores

Wow. That's really powerful. That was inspiring. I'm a third year medical student. And I try my best to learn my material thoroughly. As opposed to simply placing them on short term memory for the exams.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has this sort of point of view.

A side note, what is MPQ, LOR? I'm new to the forums.
is LOR = letter of recommendation possibly?
MPQ i have no idea.

 

[pianoo]

[...] but you are a figure whose opinion many pre-med students hold a lot of respect on this forum and so said opinion carries a lot of weight.

Can confirm. I am a students and I have a lot of respect for Goro. I've been on these forums for 2 days (though i have stumbled on it every now and then these last couple of years).

 

[nezpas]

Please do not engage in the sin of solipsism. Note that I also didn't say "Buy all the textbooks and read them cover to cover." This statement was made from nearly two decades of observation that our weakest students tend to try to make do with Board review books only.

Had to look up that word. Every day is a learning experience.
Great post, by the way. Lots of helpful tips.

 

[Newyawk]

Arent step 1/2 questions supposed to reflect the clinic and the thought process required to succeed as a clinician? To the extent that a medical student has the capacity to do so? If theyre not reflective then what the heck are these tests/practice Qs doing for us?

 

[Newyawk]

Also - i used review books and many many Qs along with class slides (but didnt go to class most of the time) and did very well on step 1. this of course doesnt mean that statistically if students copied my method they would succeed.

But im confused - are @Crayola227 and @Goro and others suggesting that those classmates who used robbins etc and went to class but still did poorly on step I (of which there were many) are more prepared than i am to be a clinician? Or is the argument that a med student with the capacity to score well on step I who doesnt use the real resources is selling themselves and their future patients and colleagues short?

In other words - am in bad shape despite my >265 or am i in good shape (as evidenced by my score if you believe so) despite the fact that i didnt use the right resources?...

Its a genuine q btw. Im not one of those people who think that high step=great doctor. I have no reason to believe ill be a great clinician at this point

 

[Goro]

Also - i used review books and many many Qs along with class slides (but didnt go to class most of the time) and did very well on step 1. this of course doesnt mean that statistically if students copied my method they would succeed.

But im confused - are @Crayola227 and @Goro and others suggesting that those classmates who used robbins etc and went to class but still did poorly on step I (of which there were many) are more prepared than i am to be a clinician? Or is the argument that a med student with the capacity to score well on step I who doesnt use the real resources is selling themselves and their future patients and colleagues short?

Do not confuse Boards performance with the ability to be a good doctor. Life doesn't end after Step I. This is something a lot of pre-meds and medical student seem to lose sight of. I suspect that for a number of them, getting into medical school was their life goal, not being a doctor.

 

[Newyawk]

Do not confuse Boards performance with the ability to be a good doctor. Life doesn't end after Step I. This is something a lot of pre-meds and medical student seem to lose sight of. I suspect that for a number of them, getting into medical school was their life goal, not being a doctor.

I edited my post with another Q if you wanna address that

 

[Crayola227]

I think if all you use is FA, and a few review books, and you NEVER use more in-depth materials, (and most school ppt slides or even syllabi would not meet this criteria), I think even if you manage to get a high step score, that score is likely not reflective of the sort of knowledge-base that you REALLY need to do well clinically.

Tales abound of people with high Step 1 going to the wards and coming off like an idiot, and not for the reasons we all do (where's the alarm silence button on the IV pump??). Or doing poorly on Step 2 CK, or Step 3, or the ITE, all of which are better gauges of application of clinical knowledge. Or just all around making their residency programs feel like they got "tricked" somehow when they accepted this "superstar" based on stats and ended up with a dud.

Step 1 is supposed to reflect how solid your clinical science knowledge base is (one aspect of many that it takes to be a great clinician, and an important one, certainly), but it's not perfect at that. I suspect some people "game" the system in how they study for the test but not for their future job. I suspect others spend too much time with textbooks, comprehend medicine beautifully, and crap out the test.

Ideally, you should be optimizing both. Being sure that as a student you're not pursuing being really good at one at the expense of the other. You need to know medicine and do well on the test. You need to do both and what optimizes one doesn't necessarily optimize the other.

 

[Crayola227]

Also - i used review books and many many Qs along with class slides (but didnt go to class most of the time) and did very well on step 1. this of course doesnt mean that statistically if students copied my method they would succeed.

But im confused - are @Crayola227 and @Goro and others suggesting that those classmates who used robbins etc and went to class but still did poorly on step I (of which there were many) are more prepared than i am to be a clinician? Or is the argument that a med student with the capacity to score well on step I who doesnt use the real resources is selling themselves and their future patients and colleagues short?

In other words - am in bad shape despite my >265 or am i in good shape (as evidenced by my score if you believe so) despite the fact that i didnt use the right resources?...

Its a genuine q btw. Im not one of those people who think that high step=great doctor. I have no reason to believe ill be a great clinician at this point

I have plenty of friends that did poorly on Step 1 that are doing better clinically than people who got amazing scores. Some with amazing scores, turned out to be total duds. Others have great scores and are doing great jobs.

Part of what goes into your future performance clinically and on that test, is how you prepared for both, yes.

It is basically impossible for us to state where you are, relative to your peers, based on your post. That's why residency programs look at a whole list of things BESIDES just Step 1. Yes, it's used as a convenient computer program cut off when reviewing apps, but once you have a batch of already-interviewed applicants, it matters so much less compared to other factors.

I don't know what all you did to prepare for Step 1. I don't know what school you went to, their reputation, their curriculum, and where you rank relative to your peers from there. I haven't seen your clinical grades, those scores and subjective reviews about you. Or your MSPE, class rank, and LORs. Any results from any away rotations. One would hope somewhere in there, beyond a Step 1 score, we would get a window into the sort of operator we predict you are in the clinical sphere.

I can't make this about, "they used textbooks and bombed step 1, they will be better" vs "they only used review materials to "study to the test," and got higher scores, they will be better" ------

because that's not really how life works.

What every doctor will say is that you need to know more than what is covered in any material aimed solely at Step 1 prep. Also that you should use whatever materials will get you that knowledge, and that they might not all be Step 1 review materials.

Am I really making this too hard to understand for so many of you?? (not just aimed at you, OP)

 

[Newyawk]

I have plenty of friends that did poorly on Step 1 that are doing better clinically than people who got amazing scores. Some with amazing scores, turned out to be total duds. Others have great scores and are doing great jobs.

Part of what goes into your future performance clinically and on that test, is how you prepared for both, yes.

It is basically impossible for us to state where you are, relative to your peers, based on your post. That's why residency programs look at a whole list of things BESIDES just Step 1. Yes, it's used as a convenient computer program cut off when reviewing apps, but once you have a batch of already-interviewed applicants, it matters so much less compared to other factors.

I don't know what all you did to prepare for Step 1. I don't know what school you went to, their reputation, their curriculum, and where you rank relative to your peers from there. I haven't seen your clinical grades, those scores and subjective reviews about you. Or your MSPE, class rank, and LORs. Any results from any away rotations. One would hope somewhere in there, beyond a Step 1 score, we would get a window into the sort of operator we predict you are in the clinical sphere.

I can't make this about, "they used textbooks and bombed step 1, they will be better" vs "they only used review materials to "study to the test," and got higher scores, they will be better" ------

because that's not really how life works.

What every doctor will say is that you need to know more than what is covered in any material aimed solely at Step 1 prep. Also that you should use whatever materials will get you that knowledge, and that they might not all be Step 1 review materials.

Am I really making this too hard to understand for so many of you?? (not just aimed at you, OP)

No youre not, i guess its pretty clear what your belief is (whether or not its actually fact). Most people who do exceptionally well on the boards also were great students in the preclinical years, but thats an aside. I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers. And im not counting points between a 230 and 235. Im talking 270 vs 220 or 230 vs 200

 

[Goro]

No youre not, i guess its pretty clear what your belief is (whether or not its actually fact). Most people who do exceptionally well on the boards also were great students in the preclinical years, but thats an aside. I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers. And im not counting points between a 230 and 235. Im talking 270 vs 220 or 230 vs 200

Please do not fall into the trap of thinking that stats are the be all and end all of clinical efficacy. No GPA is going to help you deliver bad news better to a cancer patient, or help you intubate.

 

[Newyawk]

Please do not fall into the trap of thinking that stats are the be all and end all of clinical efficacy. No GPA is going to help you deliver bad news better to a cancer patient, or help you intubate.

I never claimed that to be the case. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall honestly

 

[Goro]

I never claimed that to be the case. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall honestly

BTW, I love your screen name.

But you do belive that great boards = great doctor...you stated as such. Done arguing here

 

[Crayola227]

No youre not, i guess its pretty clear what your belief is (whether or not its actually fact). Most people who do exceptionally well on the boards also were great students in the preclinical years, but thats an aside. I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers. And im not counting points between a 230 and 235. Im talking 270 vs 220 or 230 vs 200

No one said they have no correlation, I already said that is it reflective (not perfectly so) of your knowledge base, which is one of many aspects of being a good clinician, and an important one, to boot.

Unfortunately, I can think of too many scenarios I know firsthand about a "270 vs a 220" or "230 vs 200" to make the sort of generalizations you are.

I only know what program directors have said to my face regarding how they feel about board scores.
I've heard more than one doc and PD say they would actually be wary of someone with a 270. I won't get into what sort of BS someone could spout off about that.
I've heard that others with really high scores can be a "problem" because they are arrogant. Arrogant residents are a real danger besides being hard to teach. Pure and simple.
Also have heard that those with lower score can be hampered by a lack of confidence.
Aside from all that, which you might have guessed --

You know what I have heard program director after program director tell me? That anyone that ends up in their residency, can be taught KNOWLEDGE. That it isn't even that hard if a catch up is needed there.

What makes any resident an issue, no matter their Step score? Professionalism issues. Specifically, character. The program can't make you more hard working and more honest. They find it hard to make you more humble or to stop being a bitch to staff. Go read the numerous threads where people come here for getting into trouble with their residency. Never at the heart of it is a knowledge issue. There's always something more.

You don't have to believe me at ALL, but I will tell you what EVERY doctor says - they don't really feel like Step 1 predicted how comfortable they would be as an intern. I suspect that you are correct in that being a good student might have more bearing. Each year does really build on the last, and being strong in the didactic years can poise you 3rd year. It always depends on how you learn and the opportunities even there to be grasped at your school. It depends on who you are as a person, what field you picked, why, your skills, expectations, on and on.

Programs will develop ideas about who will or won't struggle - that's their job. Step 1 is only one part of that, and not as predictive as they would like, actually.

I would suggest that you be a resident, hang out with other residents, and talk to a lot of doctors that are past the Step 1 (and graduation) parts of their careers, and hopefully some that are involved in med ed, before making generalizations about Step 1 scores.

I get that sounds snotty, but the further away you get from it, even if you're in med ed, the more you know it doesn't matter as much as anyone might like it to.

 

[VincentAdultman]

No youre not, i guess its pretty clear what your belief is (whether or not its actually fact). Most people who do exceptionally well on the boards also were great students in the preclinical years, but thats an aside. I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers. And im not counting points between a 230 and 235. Im talking 270 vs 220 or 230 vs 200

Eh. Probably weak correlation; r=0.2 or something.

 

[Newyawk]

BTW, I love your screen name.

But you do belive that great boards = great doctor...you stated as such. Done arguing here

No i dont believe that. I never stated that. I said there must be some sort of correlation, however weak that may be. Otherwise the exams are useless as measurement tools.

 

[Goro]

No i dont believe that. I never stated that. I said there must be some sort of correlation, however weak that may be. Otherwise the exams are useless as measurement tools.

Your words:
I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers.

I vaguely recall an Emergency Medicine paper that found there was no correlation between Board scores and residency evaluations...or something like that. I don't know how much this has been looked at further in other fields. Look, Boards give PDs something concrete to screen people by from a sea of CVs. It's a competency exam for medical knowledge, and that's it. But preclinical education prepares you for both Boards and Wards. When you get pimped like this:
"So, student doctor Newyawk, what are some of the causes of liver failure?" That's a different way of thinking than the pattern recognition of multiple choice questions.

 

[Newyawk]

Your words:
I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers.

I vaguely recall an Emergency Medicine paper that found there was no correlation between Board scores and residency evaluations...or something like that. I don't know how much this has been looked at further in other fields. Look, Boards give PDs something concrete to screen people by from a sea of CVs. It's a competency exam for medical knowledge, and that's it. But preclinical education prepares you for both Boards and Wards. When you get pimped like this:
"So, student doctor Newyawk, what are some of the causes of liver failure?" That's a different way of thinking than the pattern recognition of multiple choice questions.

I can believe theres a correlation and still believe its not that important. Why do PDs use it at all if its so irrelevant to success as a resident?

I could just as easily argue that a student who does well on boards would respond better to your proposed pimping Q than one who doesnt. If a student cant even pick out one choice for a liver failure cause what are the chances theyll be able to list them all?
Honestly i just dont understand the beef everyone has with students who score well. People love claiming that scoring well means nothing in medicine.

 

[sammiesings]

That sounds like a recipe for disaster for people just using FA. Coursepack is god, even if you dont like it, when instructors are writing the exams. Doesnt take an Einstein to figure out that FA is not high yield then. The complaint in that instance should come from your high performers saying they want more focus on board prep/materials.

I don't think all schools have a "course pack." I've only really ever heard my (our?) School call it that too.

Posed to all though, what do students at schools with instructor written exams and no course pack (instructor written notes for the class) do to study?

I'm guessing lecture becomes real important here and textbooks are more useful.

 

[mehc012]

I don't think all schools have a "course pack." I've only really ever heard my (our?) School call it that too.

Posed to all though, what do students at schools with instructor written exams and no course pack (instructor written notes for the class) do to study?

I'm guessing lecture becomes real important here and textbooks are more useful.

We have no course packs and I don't watch lectures. Textbooks are great!

 

[libertyyne]

I don't think all schools have a "course pack." I've only really ever heard my (our?) School call it that too.

Posed to all though, what do students at schools with instructor written exams and no course pack (instructor written notes for the class) do to study?

I'm guessing lecture becomes real important here and textbooks are more useful.

PowerPoint slides / lecture notes / assigned chapters/ topics covered in lecture. The point I was making is that if instructors write your exams. Pay attention to what instructors write.and hello from accross maz.

 

[newbie04]

I’ll be clear: @Goro has limited insight. A PhD has *NO IDEA* what residency is like. No one gives an eff about M1 and M2 unless you barely pass anything.

Even then, as a former Chief Resident, we look at other factors that truly matter: not being a douche, passing your steps and generally being a good fit / decent human to be with for the next 3 years.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

 

[sliceofbread136]

Your words:
I dont buy the idea that the step scores have no correlation to clinical performance. I would bet that, despite many outliers, those people who did well on the steps will also more often than not be better residents than their peers.

I vaguely recall an Emergency Medicine paper that found there was no correlation between Board scores and residency evaluations...or something like that. I don't know how much this has been looked at further in other fields. Look, Boards give PDs something concrete to screen people by from a sea of CVs. It's a competency exam for medical knowledge, and that's it. But preclinical education prepares you for both Boards and Wards. When you get pimped like this:
"So, student doctor Newyawk, what are some of the causes of liver failure?" That's a different way of thinking than the pattern recognition of multiple choice questions.

Yes it is a transition in thinking but being good at one usually translates into being good at the other...

 

[mehc012]

PowerPoint slides / lecture notes / assigned chapters/ topics covered in lecture. The point I was making is that if instructors write your exams. Pay attention to what instructors write.and hello from accross maz.

Again, my instructors write my exams, and I use pretty much none of the above.

 

[Goro]

I’ll be clear: @Goro has limited insight. A PhD has *NO IDEA* what residency is like. No one gives an eff about M1 and M2 unless you barely pass anything.

Even then, as a former Chief Resident, we look at other factors that truly matter: not being a douche, passing your steps and generally being a good fit / decent human to be with for the next 3 years.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

I never said I knew what residency was like.

I do try to distill what I've learned from wise colleagues such as yourself, especially the comments in italics.

The discussion is for success in med school...despite the attempts by people with solipsistic tendencies to hijack the thread. The bolded is another thought I agree with. What is important about the pre-clinical years is that grades are a predictor for Boards. Yet the stat-obsessed keep trying to divert that conversation into "high stats = good doctor". You see this beaten to death in pre-Allo and nauseaum by people who believe that GPA and MCAT are markers for one's emotional state of being and self-worth.

 

[WALL_E8]

The unnecessary emotions and arguments exhibited in this thread (which is simply meant to be a helpful starting guide to incoming students like myself) is why I like my pets more than most people.

Thanks for the advice @Goro! Much appreciated.

 

[Goro]

The unnecessary emotions and arguments exhibited in this thread (which is simply meant to be a helpful starting guide to incoming students like myself) is why I like my pets more than most people.

Thanks for the advice @Goro! Much appreciated.

The cat approves!!

 

[libertyyne]

Again, my instructors write my exams, and I use pretty much none of the above.

I was under the understanding that assigned chapters is a subset of textbooks. Why don't you do a write up to help people not use instructor provided /directed material.