Good specialties for people who don't give a crap

[Obedeli]

"I will venture to say that you are either early on in you medical career ( 1st or 2ndyear ) or did not even get accepted yet.. am i right?"



Sorry to disappoint, but I am actually finishing up and I am doing an MD and PhD. Time to accept that some of us will actually enjoy our careers, not sufferering or embittered. Better luck next time choosing a career and in judging others.

I am an astronaut with a vision of spreading world peace with LPN, ARNP, MD, RN, DVM, DDS, F.A.C.P, MPH.

Post when you are resident. Your post is still raw green.

I am not embittered, I am a realist. That is difficult for those who operate on emotion to understand.

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[8744]

I am not embittered, I am a realist. That is difficult for those who operate on emotion to understand.

I think my buddy Sacrament has had trouble of this kind before when he suggests that medicine is not the perfect career. I think people who have not started medical school read SDN to find out what it is like, good and bad, although I don't think anybody is deterred from their decision.

Being a resident, particularly an intern, definitely influences you to point out the bad things about a medical career. I imagine that when, God willing, I finsih my EM residency and start making serious money working more reasonable hours I will be more positive. Still, other than the fact that it advances you one year closer to finishing there is very little good to say about intern year. It is just a grind, and emotionally draining if that's your thing, and you do learn a lot but that's about it.

 

[8744]

...Time to accept that some of us will actually enjoy our careers, not sufferering or embittered...

Oh, you will suffer. Trust me. Print this post. Put at in an envelope and write on it, "Open When I Have Gone Four Months with Q4 Call."

I happen to like the way my career is going now that I have matched into EM but you'd be crazy to think I'm looking foward to repeating intern year. At least it will be an intern year geared toward EM which is a saving grace. Not to mention that I know what I am doing, pretty much, in a hospital now and the things that took me hours to do as a new intern I can knock out now in a few minutes.

 

[FACS]

.......and you do learn a lot but that's about it.

Eh, that's a pretty damn significant payoff. What you say about the hardships is true, but I'd consider it to be worthwhile trade.



That being said, I do believe that more night float and less call, tends to improve the quality of the aprenticeship.


But getting back to the main topic, for someone who really "doen't give a crap" about understanding medicine, I very much doubt that there's any payoff at all. Just pure misery. That's gotta suck.

 

[Hard24Get]

Oh, you will suffer. Trust me. Print this post. Put at in an envelope and write on it, "Open When I Have Gone Four Months with Q4 Call."

I happen to like the way my career is going now that I have matched into EM but you'd be crazy to think I'm looking foward to repeating intern year. At least it will be an intern year geared toward EM which is a saving grace. Not to mention that I know what I am doing, pretty much, in a hospital now and the things that took me hours to do as a new intern I can knock out now in a few minutes.

I know what call is like. I know people get tired and frustrated. But you took my comment out of context. I am saying that these other people can't assume that everyone who reaches their stage is going to say "Hey, I don't give a crap about patients so how can I still make money?". That is what I am talking about. Obviously, you agree on some level, or you wouldn't be going into EM (congrats ) and like the way your career was going. No one enjoys internship, or even the humiliation of being a lowly med student, but in the end its worth it and we manage to muster up some decency for our patients rather than being cruel or retreating into other disciplines purely on the grounds of antisocialism.

And I think I will put this in an envelope fot the days when I'm or or both. Thanks for the idea

 

[Hard24Get]

I am an astronaut with a vision of spreading world peace with LPN, ARNP, MD, RN, DVM, DDS, F.A.C.P, MPH.

Post when you are resident. Your post is still raw green.

I am not embittered, I am a realist. That is difficult for those who operate on emotion to understand.

Of note, many of my erstwhile classmates are now in their 2nd year of residency, do not hate patients, and in fact are still pleasant to be around.

Anyway, what could have possibly happened to you within the last few days? Weren't you the one who said regarding internship
"The rest of year has had its highs and lows but overall it has been manageable. I am just sharing this with all of you new to-be-interns. Don't get demotivated by the first couple of days, it does get better unless you are in surgery."

You're supposed to be the encouraging one!

 

[8744]

I know what call is like. I know people get tired and frustrated. But you took my comment out of context. I am saying that these other people can't assume that everyone who reaches their stage is going to say "Hey, I don't give a crap about patients so how can I still make money?". That is what I am talking about. Obviously, you agree on some level, or you wouldn't be going into EM (congrats ) and like the way your career was going. No one enjoys internship, or even the humiliation of being a lowly med student, but in the end its worth it and we manage to muster up some decency for our patients rather than being cruel or retreating into other disciplines purely on the grounds of antisocialism.

And I think I will put this in an envelope fot the days when I'm or or both. Thanks for the idea

Fair enough. For the record I do give a crap. And medicine is a very rewarding job. I admit that I probably wouldn't have said so if I'd been stuck in the Specialty That Dares Not Speak Its Name but my attitude has changed completely since I matched. Your outlook will depend on how much you actually want to do what you end up doing.

 

[deleted87716]

I probably wouldn't have said so if I'd been stuck in the Specialty That Dares Not Speak Its Name but my attitude has changed completely since I matched.

You can say "family medicine", Gus. The rest of us certainly can.

 

[8744]

You can say "family medicine", Gus. The rest of us certainly can.

I am afraid to. I might get flamed.

 

[Leukocyte]

I admit that I probably wouldn't have said so if I'd been stuck in the Specialty That Dares Not Speak Its Name
.......

Very True....

Not all MDs are created equal. There are some who belong in FM/IM, and others who belong in Pathology/Radiology.....Switch them around, and you will end up with a horrible FP/Internist, and an incompetent pathologist/radiologist.

 

[Plastikos]

I admit that I probably wouldn't have said so if I'd been stuck in the Specialty That Dares Not Speak Its Name but my attitude has changed completely since I matched.

LOL

 

[deleted87716]

I am afraid to. I might get flamed.

I don't think it's the words "family medicine" that are getting you flamed...

 

[GoodMonkey]

You can say "family medicine", Gus. The rest of us certainly can.

odd, i just thought he was making a humorous harry-potter-nod to the fact that he did a year in a specialty that just wasn't at all what he enjoys. *shrug*

 

[deleted87716]

i just thought he was making a humorous harry-potter-nod to the fact that he did a year in a specialty that just wasn't at all what he enjoys.

If so, he's being a lot more subtle than usual.

 

[Obedeli]

Of note, many of my erstwhile classmates are now in their 2nd year of residency, do not hate patients, and in fact are still pleasant to be around.

Anyway, what could have possibly happened to you within the last few days? Weren't you the one who said regarding internship
"The rest of year has had its highs and lows but overall it has been manageable. I am just sharing this with all of you new to-be-interns. Don't get demotivated by the first couple of days, it does get better unless you are in surgery."

You're supposed to be the encouraging one!

ah HA! Someone has been reading my posts. I was wondering if someone would see this. Ok, your intern year has highs and lows. For most part, they last a month at a time. A good month flies, a bad month takes FOREVER. The first couple of days of internship are insanely discouraging. It takes some time to get through it. After that, it does get better. My continued sources of frustration revolve around the day to day. I dislike rounding forever. Standing in the halls listening to presentations on histories which I just dictated the night before are tedious. Sometimes, you have to feign interest. That is me. Rounds, follow up appointments, notes, setting up home care and nursing homes (placement issues), and waiting on hold for 5-10 minutes between your thousand of calls is mind numbing and frustrating. Heaven forbid you have a procedure to do that day, you can count on staying for a long time into the night to catch up after that. What can I say, I am not cut out for this. Residents (pgy 2) don't have to deal with this but out in the world they will. I am not cut out for primary care. I am not cut out for all this social work. That is why I am not IN medicine, rather I am a prelim.
FEH!
I don't know, I am very tired and I come home, eat, go to sleep and wake up in the morning hoping nobody coded overnight. Preround at 5 only to start the whole day over again. It's a bad month for me and you caught me at a trough.

Don't get me wrong here, I do NOT hate patients. Not in the least bit, I ALWAYS think of how I would like to be treated if myself or my family was the patient. Quite honestly, most of them would be surprised to learn how down I have gotten. I have a great mask.

 

[Hard24Get]

It's a bad month for me and you caught me at a trough.

Don't get me wrong here, I do NOT hate patients. Not in the least bit, I ALWAYS think of how I would like to be treated if myself or my family was the patient. Quite honestly, most of them would be surprised to learn how down I have gotten. I have a great mask.

Oh, I think I get how this thread works now - it's composed of a few actually disgruntled/disillusioned/bad doctor-type people, and the majority are people trying to vent so that they can still smile in the morning!

I do that, too! Unfortunately, this time I came to vent about people who don't give a crap, so.....

 

[8744]

ah HA! Someone has been reading my posts. I was wondering if someone would see this. Ok, your intern year has highs and lows. For most part, they last a month at a time. A good month flies, a bad month takes FOREVER. The first couple of days of internship are insanely discouraging. It takes some time to get through it. After that, it does get better. My continued sources of frustration revolve around the day to day. I dislike rounding forever. Standing in the halls listening to presentations on histories which I just dictated the night before are tedious. Sometimes, you have to feign interest. That is me. Rounds, follow up appointments, notes, setting up home care and nursing homes (placement issues), and waiting on hold for 5-10 minutes between your thousand of calls is mind numbing and frustrating. Heaven forbid you have a procedure to do that day, you can count on staying for a long time into the night to catch up after that. What can I say, I am not cut out for this. Residents (pgy 2) don't have to deal with this but out in the world they will. I am not cut out for primary care. I am not cut out for all this social work. That is why I am not IN medicine, rather I am a prelim.
FEH!
I don't know, I am very tired and I come home, eat, go to sleep and wake up in the morning hoping nobody coded overnight. Preround at 5 only to start the whole day over again. It's a bad month for me and you caught me at a trough.

Don't get me wrong here, I do NOT hate patients. Not in the least bit, I ALWAYS think of how I would like to be treated if myself or my family was the patient. Quite honestly, most of them would be surprised to learn how down I have gotten. I have a great mask.

A most excellent post and sums the situation up nicely.

 

[businessmd06]

haha, not me, I have enjoyed medicine and would take it over banking EVERY DAY! Almost anything in medicine, except ob/gyn. I'm not a non trad, but did work with the family busines for a long time and always liked the science and being able to work ON people. I've read a few posts that you are referring to where MOST med students and residents are trying to make you stay in banking, but I'm one of those that say you should try medicine if you think you like it, just know that it is a long time, expect about 7-8 years from this point depending on what you pick.

Yep, You are definitly in the minority on support of my decision, however, more people have been than I expected as I have lurked longer. I will say that it is more likely people that are unhappy will post thoughts than those who are happy... just like in customer service, you get a letter now and then from a happy customer, but you have to staff a call center to take the angry ones.

One thing I know, with my business acumen, if I can make it through the training, I will do just fine with whatever $$$ MD'ing can bring. I know how to make money, I just want to have fullfillment along the way.

-BTW - Can anyone beat Jack Bauer ! Talk about a renewel of a career for K.S.

 

[Leukocyte]

I will say that it is more likely people that are unhappy will post thoughts than those who are happy... just like in customer service, you get a letter now and then from a happy customer, but you have to staff a call center to take the angry ones.

After you go through your 3rd and 4th year you will enjoy some specialities, but will hate others. "MDing" is not a general term....Internal Medicine is a career, and Orthopedic Surgery is a whole different career!

Note that:

-Only FEW people enjoy all the specialties in medicine.
-FEWER peolple enjoy the "less competetive" specialties.
-MORE people enjoy the "more competetive" specialties

As a result:

-Only the best FEW will end up in the more competetive specialties (their 1st career choice)...and are "happy"

-The rest (MOST of the people) have to settle with the less competetive speciaties (their 2nd and/or 3rd career choice)...and are "less happy"

You see, we all like practicing "medicine", but NOT ALL MEDICINE. Unfortunately, not all of us can be Neurosurgeons and Orthopedic Surgeons!!!

 

[miamidc]

After you go through your 3rd and 4th year you will enjoy some specialities, but will hate others. "MDing" is not a general term....Internal Medicine is a career, and Orthopedic Surgery is a whole different career! Note that:

-Only FEW people enjoy all the specialties in medicine.
-FEWER peolple enjoy the "less competetive" specialties.
-MORE people enjoy the "more competetive" specialties

As a result:

-Only the best FEW will end up in the more competetive specialties (their 1st career choice)...and are "happy"

-The rest (MOST of the people) have to settle with the less competetive speciaties (their 2nd and/or 3rd career choice)...and are "less happy"

You see, we all like practicing "medicine", but NOT ALL MEDICINE. Unfortunately, not all of us can be Neurosurgeons and Orthopedic Surgeons!!!

or want to be for that matter.

 

[Leukocyte]

or want to be for that matter.

I am just using these 2 specilaties symbolicly....

-Few people REALY want to go into FM, IM, and Peds

-Most want want to go into....

Emergency Medicine

Radiology

Anesthesiology

Surgery (Ortho, Neuro, Uro, ENT....)

Dermatology

Plastics

and on...and on...and on...If they can!

 

[Solideliquid]

After you go through your 3rd and 4th year you will enjoy some specialities, but will hate others. "MDing" is not a general term....Internal Medicine is a career, and Orthopedic Surgery is a whole different career!

Note that:

-Only FEW people enjoy all the specialties in medicine.
-FEWER peolple enjoy the "less competetive" specialties.
-MORE people enjoy the "more competetive" specialties

As a result:

-Only the best FEW will end up in the more competetive specialties (their 1st career choice)...and are "happy"

-The rest (MOST of the people) have to settle with the less competetive speciaties (their 2nd and/or 3rd career choice)...and are "less happy"

You see, we all like practicing "medicine", but NOT ALL MEDICINE. Unfortunately, not all of us can be Neurosurgeons and Orthopedic Surgeons!!!

I didn't settle for psychiatry I love it and it's the best fit for me. We don't lose anything by going into what you call a "less competitive" field if thats what we want to do.

 

[Leukocyte]

I didn't settle for psychiatry I love it and it's the best fit for me. We don't lose anything by going into what you call a "less competitive" field if thats what we want to do.

Yes...then you are amongst the lucky few (COMPARATIVELY) who actually enjoy and want to go into a "less competetive" field.

 

[tr]

-Few people REALY want to go into FM, IM, and Peds
-Most want want to go into ...[bla bla ROAD] ...If they can!

But is that really because they don't enjoy those specialties, or is it because of the poor compensation? FM and Peds particularly seem like great choices otherwise: good patient outcomes, mostly outpatient (since so many med students dislike the hospital), and better lifestyle relative to surgical and many other specialties. I wonder if it isn't more the debt burden that's driving people away from these choices, rather than any intrinsic dislike for the specialties themselves.

 

[mysophobe]

Yay med-peds! lol.

 

[Leukocyte]

Just to summerize my point of veiw (to avoid any confusion): (IMHO)

A big reason why there are MORE "unhappy" people in medicine is because MOST people want to go into the "more competetive" specialities. As a result More people in medicine are practicing in a field that is not their first choice.

A big reason why there are FEWER "happy" people in medicice is because FEWER people want to go into the "less competetive" specialities.
Those few who are happy are those who:

-Truly desire and enjoy the "less competetive" fields.

-Are lucky (and smart) enough to practice in their desired "more competetive" feild.

Again...this is just my humble opinion....

 

[Leukocyte]

But is that really because they don't enjoy those specialties, or is it because of the poor compensation? FM and Peds particularly seem like great choices otherwise: good patient outcomes, mostly outpatient (since so many med students dislike the hospital), and better lifestyle relative to surgical and many other specialties. I wonder if it isn't more the debt burden that's driving people away from these choices, rather than any intrinsic dislike for the specialties themselves.

Why most people do not want to go into the "less competetive" specialties is a whole different question altogether. You have already adressed one of the reasons. There are others, which vary from person to person.

 

[jetproppilot]

usually people are laid back and joke around most when their job isnt critical. also it seems like you really miss being in a frat or something

Its 2:20 AM and we just finished an emergency CABG. Coming off pump was dicey..milrinone and epinephrine did the trick. Fighting near-right ventricular failure from pre-existent PAPs in the 70/40 range while trying to separate from the pump was dicey.

If thats not critical, I dont know what is.

 

[deleted87716]

Those few who are happy are those who: -Truly desire and enjoy the "less competetive" fields. -Are lucky (and smart) enough to practice in their desired "more competetive" feild.

If this were completely true, nobody in a "competitive" field would be unhappy. And yet, many are. Physicians wind up unhappy when their expectations aren't met, and they feel trapped or powerless to change their situation. IMO, this can easily occur in a field where the practice options are limited, the training investment is large, and the expectations regarding income, prestige, and "lifestyle" are potentially unrealistic.

 

[penguins]

But is that really because they don't enjoy those specialties, or is it because of the poor compensation? FM and Peds particularly seem like great choices otherwise: good patient outcomes, mostly outpatient (since so many med students dislike the hospital), and better lifestyle relative to surgical and many other specialties. I wonder if it isn't more the debt burden that's driving people away from these choices, rather than any intrinsic dislike for the specialties themselves.

I think that sounds about right. Lot of folks I know actually want peds and/or FP and think that the lack of money to pay off loans and lack of respect is a major issue.
I have tried to talk them into just doing what they want and who cares what people think and it is still a good living... but to no avail. They try for things they don't want to do anyway. Setting themselves up for a lifetime of unhappiness, IMO.

 

[Leukocyte]

If this were completely true, nobody in a "competitive" field would be unhappy. And yet, many are. Physicians wind up unhappy when their expectations aren't met, and they feel trapped or powerless to change their situation. IMO, this can easily occur in a field where the practice options are limited, the training investment is large, and the expectations regarding income, prestige, and "lifestyle" are potentially unrealistic.

Yes indeed....As you noted, there are other reasons why people are "unhappy" in medicine, I just mentioned ONE of the reasons which, I think, is PARTIALY responsible.

 

[businessmd06]

After you go through your 3rd and 4th year you will enjoy some specialities, but will hate others. "MDing" is not a general term....Internal Medicine is a career, and Orthopedic Surgery is a whole different career!

Note that:

-Only FEW people enjoy all the specialties in medicine.
-FEWER peolple enjoy the "less competetive" specialties.
-MORE people enjoy the "more competetive" specialties

As a result:

-Only the best FEW will end up in the more competetive specialties (their 1st career choice)...and are "happy"

-The rest (MOST of the people) have to settle with the less competetive speciaties (their 2nd and/or 3rd career choice)...and are "less happy"

You see, we all like practicing "medicine", but NOT ALL MEDICINE. Unfortunately, not all of us can be Neurosurgeons and Orthopedic Surgeons!!!

I was using MD'ing as a general term for whatever field I am in that brings in a paycheck. It is way to early for me to know what I will like, however, if I had to guess it would be something like EM / Surg. Just my personality. Will I get in, who knows, will I work hard to make it happen, yes!

 

[businessmd06]

odd, i just thought he was making a humorous harry-potter-nod to the fact that he did a year in a specialty that just wasn't at all what he enjoys. *shrug*

It's a reference to the Village.... "those who do not speak"

 

[deleted87716]

Lot of folks I know actually want peds and/or FP and think that the lack of money to pay off loans and lack of respect is a major issue.

Does anyone know a doctor who can't pay off his/her loans? Just curious, because I've never met one. As for this "respect" thing people keep referring to...who are you trying to impress?

 

[8744]

It's a reference to the Village.... "those who do not speak"

No, it was a reference to "The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Ecco.

 

[businessmd06]

No, it was a reference to "The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Ecco.

Fair enough