Good fellowships out there for major reconstructive surgery?

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Aresnebula

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I have been gaining more and more interest in reconstructive surgeries. Not Charcot but like CP, acquired clubfoot, malunions, etc. Don't get me wrong, my residency is very surgery heavy and I know I will be comfortable doing at least 80% of cases when I am out but they don't do a lot of recon work here. I have been thinking about doing a fellowship so was wondering what other people's experiences have been? We don't have a dedicated thread here for fellowships like we do for residencies so would really appreciate advice.

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There are 5 wound care fellowship positions available at Wycoff Heights Medical Center. This may be a good position to get your feet wet with fellowship, and possibly set you up to do an additional fellowship afterwards.
 
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1. Orthopedic Foot and Ankle (Columbus, Ohio)
2. Core Institute (Phoenix)
3. Whatever Brad Lamm's fellowship is
4. McAlister in Pheonix is doing some great cases
5. Dujela in Washington state
6. Jason Nowak in Redding, California is doing some great cases as well.

Don't know much about the programs but others I've heard of as being reputable are Brigido, Weil, and PAMF (Think Megan Jennings took over at PAMF, but have heard good things traditionally)

this list is in no particular order. Except for #1. That is the top fellowship in the country and will put you in a position to land a good/ excellent job afterwards. They know how to bill foot/ankle procedures very well.


EDIT: You also need to specify what kind of reconstructive work you're wanting to delve deeper in. Pes planus? Pes Cavus? Total ankles? Limb deformity correction? "Reconstructive" is sort of a catch all phrase. Some of these fellowships offer more in the way of total ankles vs limb deformity correction, etc.
 
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1. Orthopedic Foot and Ankle (Columbus, Ohio)
this list is in no particular order. Except for #1. That is the top fellowship in the country and will put you in a position to land a good/ excellent job afterwards. They know how to bill foot/ankle procedures very well.
I know of one grad from there who got a typical PP slavelabor associate offer. Goes to show you Podiatry will always be Podiatry.

In that program’s defense though, it is a stellar program with awesome attendings (and that Fellow may of just not performed a good enough job search).
 
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1. Orthopedic Foot and Ankle (Columbus, Ohio)
2. Core Institute (Phoenix)
3. Whatever Brad Lamm's fellowship is
4. McAlister in Pheonix is doing some great cases
5. Dujela in Washington state
6. Jason Nowak in Redding, California is doing some great cases as well.

Don't know much about the programs but others I've heard of as being reputable are Brigido, Weil, and PAMF (Think Megan Jennings took over at PAMF, but have heard good things traditionally)

this list is in no particular order. Except for #1. That is the top fellowship in the country and will put you in a position to land a good/ excellent job afterwards. They know how to bill foot/ankle procedures very well.


EDIT: You also need to specify what kind of reconstructive work you're wanting to delve deeper in. Pes planus? Pes Cavus? Total ankles? Limb deformity correction? "Reconstructive" is sort of a catch all phrase. Some of these fellowships offer more in the way of total ankles vs limb deformity correction, etc.

Good post that would have been my list too
 
Do you have a job lined up that will require you doing these type of surgeries?

Do you have the ability or desire to move to any part of the country where due to said fellowship you may be be able to find said job?

Don't get @ExperiencedDPM started on how they bill stuff good lol...

These types of surgeries you are talking about would be very medicaid oriented...I would recommend a fellowship associated with a large university like UTSA or Louisville. Learning to do TARs at OFA is not going to give you what you want.

Also, on a personal note, doing a fellowship to focus on that type of surgery sounds like an absolutely horrible idea.
 
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1. Orthopedic Foot and Ankle (Columbus, Ohio)
2. Core Institute (Phoenix)
3. Whatever Brad Lamm's fellowship is
4. McAlister in Pheonix is doing some great cases
5. Dujela in Washington state
6. Jason Nowak in Redding, California is doing some great cases as well.

Don't know much about the programs but others I've heard of as being reputable are Brigido, Weil, and PAMF (Think Megan Jennings took over at PAMF, but have heard good things traditionally)

this list is in no particular order. Except for #1. That is the top fellowship in the country and will put you in a position to land a good/ excellent job afterwards. They know how to bill foot/ankle procedures very well.


EDIT: You also need to specify what kind of reconstructive work you're wanting to delve deeper in. Pes planus? Pes Cavus? Total ankles? Limb deformity correction? "Reconstructive" is sort of a catch all phrase. Some of these fellowships offer more in the way of total ankles vs limb deformity correction, etc.
More like limb deformity correction. My program already does pes cavus, planus, TARs, etc. Thank you for the list :)
 
Do you have a job lined up that will require you doing these type of surgeries?

Do you have the ability or desire to move to any part of the country where due to said fellowship you may be be able to find said job?

Don't get @ExperiencedDPM started on how they bill stuff good lol...

These types of surgeries you are talking about would be very medicaid oriented...I would recommend a fellowship associated with a large university like UTSA or Louisville. Learning to do TARs at OFA is not going to give you what you want.

Also, on a personal note, doing a fellowship to focus on that type of surgery sounds like an absolutely horrible idea.
I definitely don't have a job lined up but thinking of a fellowship to do more limb deformity correction stuff. Would appreciate your input as to why you don't think fellowship is a good idea.
 
I definitely don't have a job lined up but thinking of a fellowship to do more limb deformity correction stuff. Would appreciate your input as to why you don't think fellowship is a good idea.
Look into Dr. Noman Siddiqui's fellowship in Baltimore. He does a lot of limb deformity correction (Supreamalleolar osteotomies, limb lengthening, etc) from what I have gathered
 
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I definitely don't have a job lined up but thinking of a fellowship to do more limb deformity correction stuff. Would appreciate your input as to why you don't think fellowship is a good idea.
There are maybe 0.2% of DPM jobs that use those skills ever. Maybe 0.01% use those skills frequently or semi-frequently. That is the start and the end of it. Those who use the complex cases skills often (limb lengthen, supra-mall osteotomy, TAR, etc) often are tertiary referral centers... of which there are maybe 10 or 20 in the country, most of them F&A ortho (or the best attendings at pod residencies/fellowships).

Even if you go acquire those skills, think how it'll translate into a job. The fellowship DPM likely won't hire you... they've spend many years developing that niche and refers for those cases in that state or an even bigger area. Even if you're their best fellow ever, chances are slim they'd have enough cases to keep you... or pay you well.

In normal PP, you'd starve. Those cases are very inefficient (and poor payers, being disabled doesn't pay well).
In most hospital jobs, you'd starve. Those cases and office visits are very equipment and staff intensive.
In most other hospital jobs, ortho does the recon F&A (podiatry does the DM wound/amp).

If you want to do those case as they come along as an average DPM job, they will be 1/10,000 of your visits in most jobs. Even if you have residents and see 100+ patients per day, only a couple per month will even be candidates for that stuff. Even West Penn or other super busy resident clinics known in their area for F&A recon still see 100x more warts or nail care patients than triple arthrodesis. That is just how it goes.

If you can get an ortho job (chance is probably 1/300 or even 1/500 DPMs who has a true ortho group job with those type of refers for all F&A work), those cases will still be very rare. There will be many more hallux rigidus or Achilles tendonitis as opposed to "needs a Taylor Spatial Frame recon."

Common things occur commonly.
Heel pain and ingrowns and skin/nail issues are super common.
Bunions and hammertoes are pretty common.
Ankle sprains are common, but ortho will take most... and surgery is rare if you're ethical.
Ankle and foot fractures are common, but ortho will take most (esp ankle).
Flat foot is fairly common, but decent surgical candidates are fairly uncommon (unless you like to do surgey on 300 pounders that will fail).
Charcot is somewhat common, but the ppl who do big surgery on it are dumb and/or doing it just for RVUs.
Cavus surgery is pretty uncommon.
Ankle arthritis is uncommon.
Deformity correction is ultra-uncommon. It is non-existent in the vast majority of DPM practices.

...Basically, you are living in resident fantasy land where between all of your reading and attendings, rare things seem common. Look at the attendings of your program... even the good ones probably only do a few cavus foot recons or ankle OA surgeries per year. Would you do a fellowship in de-syndactly surgery and brachymet? Of course not. Advanced deformity is equally rare and hard to get any meaningful amount of refers for.

Everyone thinks they will do way better than average, be different, that rules don't apply. Statistically, you will not... rules and averages do apply. Again, look at your residency attendings and your program's alumni. See what average is. You are looking at fellowships as much as a way to extend the party and avoid the jobs/loans as for actual practicality. A lot of residents fall into that trap... jobs suck, so I will try to delay and take on more debt to gain some edge with skill that is unnecessary or impractical. That is poor reasoning. Most people won't even use all of the skills they learn in a good podiatry residency - much less a fellowship. In the end, do what you like. It's your career - and your money. :)
 
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There are maybe 0.2% of DPM jobs that use those skills ever. Maybe 0.01% use those skills frequently or semi-frequently. That is the start and the end of it. Those who use the complex cases skills often (limb lengthen, supra-mall osteotomy, TAR, etc) often are tertiary referral centers... of which there are maybe 10 or 20 in the country, most of them F&A ortho (or the best attendings at pod residencies/fellowships).

Even if you go acquire those skills, think how it'll translate into a job. The fellowship DPM likely won't hire you... they've spend many years developing that niche and refers for those cases in that state or an even bigger area. Even if you're their best fellow ever, chances are slim they'd have enough cases to keep you... or pay you well.

In normal PP, you'd starve. Those cases are very inefficient (and poor payers, being disabled doesn't pay well).
In most hospital jobs, you'd starve. Those cases and office visits are very equipment and staff intensive.
In most other hospital jobs, ortho does the recon F&A (podiatry does the DM wound/amp).

If you want to do those case as they come along as an average DPM job, they will be 1/10,000 of your visits in most jobs. Even if you have residents and see 100+ patients per day, only a couple per month will even be candidates for that stuff. Even West Penn or other super busy resident clinics known in their area for F&A recon still see 100x more warts or nail care patients than triple arthrodesis. That is just how it goes.

If you can get an ortho job (chance is probably 1/300 or even 1/500 DPMs who has a true ortho group job with those type of refers for all F&A work), those cases will still be very rare. There will be many more hallux rigidus or Achilles tendonitis as opposed to "needs a Taylor Spatial Frame recon."

Common things occur commonly.
Heel pain and ingrowns and skin/nail issues are super common.
Bunions and hammertoes are pretty common.
Ankle sprains are common, but ortho will take most... and surgery is rare if you're ethical.
Ankle and foot fractures are common, but ortho will take most (esp ankle).
Flat foot is fairly common, but decent surgical candidates are fairly uncommon (unless you like to do surgey on 300 pounders that will fail).
Charcot is somewhat common, but the ppl who do big surgery on it are dumb and/or doing it just for RVUs.
Cavus surgery is pretty uncommon.
Ankle arthritis is uncommon.
Deformity correction is ultra-uncommon. It is non-existent in the vast majority of DPM practices.

...Basically, you are living in resident fantasy land where between all of your reading and attendings, rare things seem common. Look at the attendings of your program... even the good ones probably only do a few cavus foot recons or ankle OA surgeries per year. Would you do a fellowship in de-syndactly surgery and brachymet? Of course not. Advanced deformity is equally rare and hard to get any meaningful amount of refers for.

Everyone thinks they will do way better than average, be different, that rules don't apply. Statistically, you will not... rules and averages do apply. Again, look at your residency attendings and your program's alumni. See what average is. You are looking at fellowships as much as a way to extend the party and avoid the jobs/loans as for actual practicality. A lot of residents fall into that trap... jobs suck, so I will try to delay and take on more debt to gain some edge with skill that is unnecessary or impractical. That is poor reasoning. Most people won't even use all of the skills they learn in a good podiatry residency - much less a fellowship. In the end, do what you like. It's your career - and your money. :)

Also good post.

For post people with true limb deformities requiring surgery they’ve already been through the healthcare referral ladder (kids seeing ped who sent them to a ped ortho), or an older patient with multiple joint arthritis already established at an ortho group for their knees, hips, spine etc. by the time it reaches you, as the podiatrist, they’re likely there to see you for something more foot related like a bunion, nails, or a wound. They’ve likely already consulted with orthopedists regarding their limb deformity at some point in their life before they’re seeing you.

The exceptions to this are patients you know directly either from their family members or friends/church/office staff, or poor insurances, likely non English speaking, who got lost somewhere along the way.
 
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1. Orthopedic Foot and Ankle (Columbus, Ohio)
2. Core Institute (Phoenix)
3. Whatever Brad Lamm's fellowship is
4. McAlister in Pheonix is doing some great cases
5. Dujela in Washington state
6. Jason Nowak in Redding, California is doing some great cases as well.

Don't know much about the programs but others I've heard of as being reputable are Brigido, Weil, and PAMF (Think Megan Jennings took over at PAMF, but have heard good things traditionally)

this list is in no particular order. Except for #1. That is the top fellowship in the country and will put you in a position to land a good/ excellent job afterwards. They know how to bill foot/ankle procedures very well.


EDIT: You also need to specify what kind of reconstructive work you're wanting to delve deeper in. Pes planus? Pes Cavus? Total ankles? Limb deformity correction? "Reconstructive" is sort of a catch all phrase. Some of these fellowships offer more in the way of total ankles vs limb deformity correction, etc.
Some of your comments above confirm that you are beyond clueless.
 
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I have been gaining more and more interest in reconstructive surgeries. Not Charcot but like CP, acquired clubfoot, malunions, etc. Don't get me wrong, my residency is very surgery heavy and I know I will be comfortable doing at least 80% of cases when I am out but they don't do a lot of recon work here. I have been thinking about doing a fellowship so was wondering what other people's experiences have been? We don't have a dedicated thread here for fellowships like we do for residencies so would really appreciate advice.

Please serach the threads before making a new post. This topic was discussed recently.

Closing!
 
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