Getting into Canadian Residency from US medical school

[phantompanda]

Hi everyone,
I'm currently a premed student in a US university. For personal reasons, I am thinking about eventually going to Canada. This is a fairly recent development for me so I am not nearly as knowledgeable about this process as I would like to be. I would really appreciate it if anyone would be able to share some information with me as to the process and difficulty of getting into 1) a canadian medical school from a US university, 2) a canadian residency from a US medical school, or 3) practicing in Canada after completing a US residency. I am a Chinese citizen but I am a permanent resident of the US. Thanks in advance for your input.

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[Giemsa]

In general, to get into a Canadian medical school, you need to be a Canadian citizen/permanent resident. However, some universities do accept international students. However, Canadian medical schools are notoriously competitive. For example, at the U of Toronto (which I believe does take international students) the U of T the AVERAGE accepted GPA was 3.89/4.00 and average MCAT was 32Q (10,11,11). The numbers at McGill (also takes internationals as far as I know) were similar.

To do a Canadian residency, you MUST be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.

To practice in Canada after completing a US residency requires you to complete the requisite Canadian exams e.g. LMCC Part I and II, and the Royal College exams in your specialty. Ontario has an expedient licensing route for US-trained MDs called the "third pathway" - you can read more about it on their website.

 

[undecide]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think there are two provinces that allow visa students to continue staying on to do Canadian residencies. Think it's Quebec, that only allows Quebec MDs to stay and Newfoundland. Newfoundland allows only current year Canadian MDs to do their residencies there.

 

[NoOldBoysClub]

To do a Canadian residency, you MUST be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.

To practice in Canada after completing a US residency requires you to complete the requisite Canadian exams e.g. LMCC Part I and II, and the Royal College exams in your specialty. Ontario has an expedient licensing route for US-trained MDs called the "third pathway" - you can read more about it on their website.

If someone passes those exams what are their chances of doing a canadian residency?. I have heard that canadian hospitals are reluctant to give places to img's. Is this true? any statistics?

 

[M.Furfur]

If someone passes those exams what are their chances of doing a canadian residency?. I have heard that canadian hospitals are reluctant to give places to img's. Is this true? any statistics?

If you are a US med school graduate you don't need to pass any of the LCMEs before matching. However, you cannot participate in the match unless you are a canadian citizen or permanent resident.

 

[NoOldBoysClub]

yes i am aware that you need to be a canadian citizen/perm resident. i didn't know that us imgs are exempt from the tests. thats very interesting.
i was just wondering if it would be difficult to be offered a residency if you have studied abroad (given you have passed the LCME's and are a canadian citizen/perm resident).
i keep hearing so many stories about permanent residents who can't work as a doctor in canada because they aren't being offered any residencies. maybe they don't want to take the LCME's. the LCME's must be tough if you have graduated from medical school 10 or 15 years ago and can't remember everything.

 

[med2UCC]

Residency spots for IMG's are given by preference to recent graduates of med school. This is a recognition that the longer it is since you graduated from med school the more you have forgotten or have specialised. If you haven't actually been working in medicine for 3-4 years, your skills are rusty. This is why many IMG's find it hard to get residency spots in Canada. There are also issues with recognition of credentials (if you come from a school not on the FAIMER list, for example) and sometimes with getting supporting documents together in the 1st place. And with some, yes, they haven't passed the LCME exams. There are many reasons why someone with a medical degree might end up driving a cab or working in a research lab instead of seeing patients. That's why everyone should do their homework before coming to Canada to work (or going anywhere else, for that matter - if I went to Ireland I wouldn't expect to be able to work there without doing some paperwork just because I graduated from an Irish school, having done no post-graduate trainign there whatsoever).
Cheers,
M

yes i am aware that you need to be a canadian citizen/perm resident. i didn't know that us imgs are exempt from the tests. thats very interesting.
i was just wondering if it would be difficult to be offered a residency if you have studied abroad (given you have passed the LCME's and are a canadian citizen/perm resident).
i keep hearing so many stories about permanent residents who can't work as a doctor in canada because they aren't being offered any residencies. maybe they don't want to take the LCME's. the LCME's must be tough if you have graduated from medical school 10 or 15 years ago and can't remember everything.

 

[NoOldBoysClub]

thanks for the reply. had never heard of the faimer list (or faimer.org)
i think there is more to it though. probably some politics and a bit of discrimination. the thing is that we are not always talking about imgs who have studied in 2nd or 3rd world countries. the bizarre thing is that canada applies its strict and somewhat arrogant policies to imgs from germany, france, swiss etc etc. these are countries that have some of the best doctors in the world. its really sad given the fact that canada has a shortage of doctors. also, even young imgs who have recently graduated passed the board exams arent offered residencies. its hard to believe that a bit discrimination isnt involved here.

these policies leave many people angry and frustrated. i was shocked to find so many websites that discourage immigration to canada. http://notcanada.net/
etc etc. i dont think canada is doing itself a favor.

 

[med2UCC]

thanks for the reply. had never heard of the faimer list (or faimer.org)
i think there is more to it though. probably some politics and a bit of discrimination. the thing is that we are not always talking about imgs who have studied in 2nd or 3rd world countries. the bizarre thing is that canada applies its strict and somewhat arrogant policies to imgs from germany, france, swiss etc etc. these are countries that have some of the best doctors in the world. its really sad given the fact that canada has a shortage of doctors. also, even young imgs who have recently graduated passed the board exams arent offered residencies. its hard to believe that a bit discrimination isnt involved here.

these policies leave many people angry and frustrated. i was shocked to find so many websites that discourage immigration to canada. http://notcanada.net/
etc etc. i dont think canada is doing itself a favor.

No, Canada isn't doing itself a favour with these policies, and as an IM|G I think they are ridiculous. The reason why all medical schools are treated the same, however, is in an effort to not discriminate. This is an odd offshoot of the charter of rights and freedoms, signed into law in 1985. There were a few people who challenged the IMG rules in existence then, which gave preference to IMG's from recognised training systems such as the UK, while applying more stringent rules to those from less recognised training systems (i.e. China). As a result of these challenges, all IMG's are treated the same regardless of where they trained in order to be "fair" (resulting in unfair treatment of those who trained in 1st class institutions that just happen to not be in North America). This is the history of the current system.
As to bias, yes there is bias against IMG's. There is in the US as well (just check out the general residency issues forum for a few choice comments about IMG's). Is it right? No, of course not. Will it go away any time soon? No, of course not. People will always think the training system they went through is superior. If they didn't, they would have to think they were inferior clinicians. Fortunately, the patients don't scrutinise your credentials so once you get into the system and get through residency life is good. Canada is a lovely country to live in with many things to recommend it. And gradually, the attitude towards IMG's is shifting back the other way, and eventually we will be more welcome.
Cheers,
M

 

[Cardiologist]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this thread. I am an MS3 from US med school applying to residency this year. I am a PR in Canada and am planning to apply to IM residency in both canada and US. I eventually want to do a fellowship either GI or Cards. I have been searching this forum learning about applying to Canadian residencies. Looks like MCQEE 1 & 2 is not a requirement for residency application. Can someone plz explain to me what is it that is needed to apply and also be a competitive applicant? I am not planning to do any away rotations in Canada but am hoping to apply to the Ontario schools.

also how does ranking work. Do you rank both Canadian and US schools?
PLZ help because I am really confused at this time. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[med2UCC]

The application process is similar in Canada and the US. All schools have slightly different application and interview processes, but most like you to have done an elective inthe specialty you are applying for, and it would really help if you did an elective in the province you are thinking of applying to (Ontario). You should have good marks and no disciplinary actions on your transcript. Excellent letters of reference also are a must. Aside from that and trying to make your personal statement good, there's not too much you can do to make you stand out. There are no extra exams that you have to write; if you match into Canada you do have to write the Canadian licensing exams - everyone does.
as for ranking, yes, you rank both lists (but seperately!). However, if the American match is completed 1st and you match, you get taken off the Canadian list. If the Canadian match is completed 1st and you match you get taken out of the American match process. YOu cannot turn down a match. Every year the dates vary slightly. Recently the Canadian match has been earlier, but that may change as it was certainly not that way for a couple of the years I was in Ireland.
Clear as mud? Cheers,
M

Hi everyone,

I am new to this thread. I am an MS3 from US med school applying to residency this year. I am a PR in Canada and am planning to apply to IM residency in both canada and US. I eventually want to do a fellowship either GI or Cards. I have been searching this forum learning about applying to Canadian residencies. Looks like MCQEE 1 & 2 is not a requirement for residency application. Can someone plz explain to me what is it that is needed to apply and also be a competitive applicant? I am not planning to do any away rotations in Canada but am hoping to apply to the Ontario schools.

also how does ranking work. Do you rank both Canadian and US schools?
PLZ help because I am really confused at this time. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Cardiologist]

to MED2UCC,

thank you so much for replying. any idea where I can find info about which match is first for 2011. USA or Canada?

I am looking to apply mostly to the ONTARIO programs just cos i have family in Toronto. However, I wanted to ask you all if there are programs with good reputation/fellowship matching in GI since that is what I want to do eventually.

also do you see residents coming back to the US for fellowship or are fellowships pretty available in Canada.

Thanks

 

[docbill]

to MED2UCC,

thank you so much for replying. any idea where I can find info about which match is first for 2011. USA or Canada?

I am looking to apply mostly to the ONTARIO programs just cos i have family in Toronto. However, I wanted to ask you all if there are programs with good reputation/fellowship matching in GI since that is what I want to do eventually.

also do you see residents coming back to the US for fellowship or are fellowships pretty available in Canada.

Thanks

CaRMs (first as it most always is)
March 7th 2011

ERARS
March 14th 2011