Full scholarship to med school?

[Az1698]

What med schools give scholarships (full?) and what do they look for?

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[Algophiliac]

A few schools like Mayo give plently of full or half scholarships, and most schools give some scholarships or have decent financial aid. Vanderbilt comes to mind as another good one. As to what they look for, something close to perfection. Stunning grades, MCAT, ECs, rec letters, and interviews--and you can't slack on any of those.

 

[tennisball80]

What med schools give scholarships (full?) and what do they look for?

Stay on the top of the game. Very top.

 

[eyesarecool]

...

 

[MaximusD]

Most schools don't really give full scholarships. Students are beating down the doors to get in... what would their motivation be?

Don't let student loans scare you... although they are substantial, if you become a physician there is little-to-no likelihood of their repayment breaking the bank.

I'm on full scholarship from the Air Force. If you are really concerned with tuition you might want to check out the military and also the health corps, although I would NOT choose any of these unless you are comfortable with losing some career freedom in exchange for financial freedom.

 

[FutureDoc4]

Actually there are a variety of schools that give full academic scholarships (some even with a stipend). These tend NOT to be advertised and are based on academic achievement (MCAT, GPA etc)

UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
and University of Chicago I know for sure

 

[OddNath]

Keep in mind that tuition at your state school isn't that bad. For example, at my school, it's ~$10,000 per year for tuition and fees for in-state residents. Most people just take out loans and pay them back later. This is med school, not ancient literature grad school- you are pretty much guaranteed a relatively high paying job.

That said, I'm not paying any of that. I'm in an MD/PhD program- most MD/PhD programs pay for tuition and give you a stipend to live on. The catch is that you have to do a PhD, hence losing out on like 4 years of salary you would make as a practicing physician in that same amount of time. Also, if you go the research route, you'll likely end up in academic medicine, which pays less than hustlin' in private practice. So, in the end, while it looks cheaper to have med school paid for in this way, it's actually kind of a wash with everything else considered.

So, basically- go ahead and get yourself a full scholarship to undergrad. Being National Merit pretty much guarantees that. Then, you won't have *two* loans going through med school, which makes the whole situation much more manageable.

 

[ButImLETired]

I'd also like to point out that most med schools that give out full merit rides (not including MD/PhD programs, of course) will give full TUITION scholarships, not full cost of attendance ones. So, say tuition if 40 a year- that's what'll be covered. Cost of living (which varies based on the city you're in, obviously) can often be pretty hefty, and that's not usually covered with a merit scholly. So you might actually be better off going to your state school in a low-cost of living town, where you might be able to get away with taking about 20 grand a year for cost of attendance, vs getting a "full ride" at a school in NYC, or Boston, or San Fran. Or the difference would be relatively negligible over the 4 years, and you might WANT to live in the cheaper town so you can actually enjoy yourself a bit more and live more comfortably.

As someone said, you WILL be able to pay back your loans. Stressing yourself out and trying to compete for the minuscule amount of merit money out there is simply not worth it. If it happens, it's basically like winning the lottery. If it doesn't, no sweat. Most schools nowadays are trying to funnel more funds into need-based financial aid than merit-based, since everyone's debt is going up so much and salaries are either staying the same or decreasing. For this reason, many med schools choose to give money based on need (allowing low-income students to get through med school with less debt, incentivizing things like primary care or inner city medicine) rather than merit. As most med schools increase their student body size, they have less money to go around, too. And so on and so forth. So I actually think there'll be a steady decrease in merit money being awarded, until many non need-based scholarships are probably gone altogether.

 

[broken tibula]

Wait--question. When you say need-based scholarships, how to med schools figure your financial status? Is it based on your parents' income? Because, I mean, we're all gonna be dirt poor when we graduate from college.

 

[slight365]

Keep in mind that tuition at your state school isn't that bad. For example, at my school, it's ~$10,000 per year for tuition and fees for in-state residents. Most people just take out loans and pay them back later. This is med school, not ancient literature grad school- you are pretty much guaranteed a relatively high paying job.

That said, I'm not paying any of that. I'm in an MD/PhD program- most MD/PhD programs pay for tuition and give you a stipend to live on. The catch is that you have to do a PhD, hence losing out on like 4 years of salary you would make as a practicing physician in that same amount of time. Also, if you go the research route, you'll likely end up in academic medicine, which pays less than hustlin' in private practice. So, in the end, while it looks cheaper to have med school paid for in this way, it's actually kind of a wash with everything else considered.

So, basically- go ahead and get yourself a full scholarship to undergrad. Being National Merit pretty much guarantees that. Then, you won't have *two* loans going through med school, which makes the whole situation much more manageable.

I actually almost went for an MD/PhD, and even had a good shot at getting in. I had a connection through a research program and had a (legit) meeting with the dean, who also was a chair of the program I was in, so he knew about me.

He stressed the hardest part was leaving med school after the two years to go into what could be unfullfilling research, and then after doing that, coming back to medicine as if nothing happened. I really would love to have done it, but I didn't feel in the end, after doing my own research, that it was for me.

Proportionately, the chances are better because there are fewer applicants for the few spots they have, as it was explained to me, along with them being very picky.

Now if you're really stuck on a full ride, check out the possibility of going overseas to western Europe. I now live in Germany and schools cost next to nothing, or are free, outside of semester expenses of under €200. However, it requires about a year of learning German, for instance, and the programs are competitive, especially the ones ranked among the world's top 50. While it is a bit over 6 years, one spends it in med school, along with 2-3 semesters for a thesis that allows one to get post-doc work in the US later, should they want it. Be a good candidate and matching is quite good (my personal experience are friends from European schools outside of Germany). Of course, one has to pay their way and language courses aren't free. Since I lived here anyway, I spent about €5,000, and the rest were handled by a university prep program for free.

 

[MaximusD]

Actually there are a variety of schools that give full academic scholarships (some even with a stipend). These tend NOT to be advertised and are based on academic achievement (MCAT, GPA etc)

UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
and University of Chicago I know for sure

Go ahead and find some requirements and how many are given out yearly. I will repeat myself, med schools really don't give out full-ride scholarships. There are significant opportunities for partial scholarships and grants, however.

 

[MaximusD]

That said, I'm not paying any of that. I'm in an MD/PhD program- most MD/PhD programs pay for tuition and give you a stipend to live on. The catch is that you have to do a PhD, hence losing out on like 4 years of salary you would make as a practicing physician in that same amount of time. Also, if you go the research route, you'll likely end up in academic medicine, which pays less than hustlin' in private practice. So, in the end, while it looks cheaper to have med school paid for in this way, it's actually kind of a wash with everything else considered.

Is that a description of the MSTP?

 

[MaximusD]

Now if you're really stuck on a full ride, check out the possibility of going overseas to western Europe. I now live in Germany and schools cost next to nothing, or are free, outside of semester expenses of under €200. However, it requires about a year of learning German, for instance, and the programs are competitive, especially the ones ranked among the world's top 50. While it is a bit over 6 years, one spends it in med school, along with 2-3 semesters for a thesis that allows one to get post-doc work in the US later, should they want it. Be a good candidate and matching is quite good (my personal experience are friends from European schools outside of Germany). Of course, one has to pay their way and language courses aren't free. Since I lived here anyway, I spent about €5,000, and the rest were handled by a university prep program for free.

Horrible idea. Do not consider this idea.

The match rates for foreign grads have been abysmal lately. Stay in the US. Pay for school. We all are doing it/did it. Even though I am in HPSP I will have close to 100k in debt at the end of med school d/t the first year of med school and college. It's not a huge deal... the lowest physician salary is still >100k. Most family docs make at least 150k. Specialize and you can make up to half a mil. Get into a US med school, then worry about paying.

I rarely point this out, but look at my post count and my long history on this site. I can refer you to a multitude of other well-qualified posters that will tell you the SAME THING.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Horrible idea. Do not consider this idea.

The match rates for foreign grads have been abysmal lately. Stay in the US. Pay for school. We all are doing it/did it. Even though I am in HPSP I will have close to 100k in debt at the end of med school d/t the first year of med school and college. It's not a huge deal... the lowest physician salary is still >100k. Most family docs make at least 150k. Specialize and you can make up to half a mil. Get into a US med school, then worry about paying.

I rarely point this out, but look at my post count and my long history on this site. I can refer you to a multitude of other well-qualified posters that will tell you the SAME THING.

You're completely ignoring the difference between a St. George's foreign grad vs. an Oxford foreign grad. Someone going to St. George's has the stigma of not being good enough to get into a U.S. med school. If you're coming from a top 50 world med school, there's no stigma there. Oxford, etc. is no joke to get into, and if you got in there, you could probably have gotten into a US school. I had a academic physician even tell me that this was a decent idea.

 

[slight365]

You're completely ignoring the difference between a St. George's foreign grad vs. an Oxford foreign grad. Someone going to St. George's has the stigma of not being good enough to get into a U.S. med school. If you're coming from a top 50 world med school, there's no stigma there. Oxford, etc. is no joke to get into, and if you got in there, you could probably have gotten into a US school. I had a academic physician even tell me that this was a decent idea.

Absolutely, and I too have mentioned this critical fact that many, including flamebaiters, try to use to classify "FMGs". Not all are made the same and there are many schools that are well known internationally, whether students are in the know or not. THe professionals and institutes have no choice but to know these institutes due to the resources, discoveries, and cooperations in them. It's also not even the top 50. There's also the top 250 that a number of US schools don't even make it into. Many of the German universities are in the top rankings for medicine, with several being in the top 40-50. Other countries offer some of the world's top programs, such as Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, UK, and The Netherlands. Incidentally, one can train in Germany, and after two years of practice, be eligible to work in Switzerland, where salaries and working conditions are well higher than Germany and the US, with the living standard of Switzerland to boot (Geneva and Zurich consistently ranked as the highest standards of living in the world).

I will also side a bit with MaxD, in that going overseas to a top school is not for everyone. The road is very difficult and could be expensive. In my case, it was likely harder to get into a German school than it would have been to get into a US school. Strangely, the language was the smallest issue, and I'm also an EU citizen as well. The competition is harsh due to the low costs. I happened to live here already, so there was at least an idea of the path to go through.

Being in the program is another issue altogether, and one comment I can make is that the students are spoiled and don't know how good they have it. As far as the material goes, I'm familiar with the med level stuff and there is more or less a universal language with some variations. Often times I realize I'm reading the text and not even reading the Germany and just bouncing on the terms and with proper understanding. For those unfamiliar with the material, it can present a significant problem.

 

[tabishis]

What med schools give scholarships (full?) and what do they look for?

Check out UCF. It's a new med school in Orlando and I heard they cover all your med school expenses. It might be for inaugural class only. Check thier web site. www.ucf.edu

 

[ButImLETired]

Go ahead and find some requirements and how many are given out yearly. I will repeat myself, med schools really don't give out full-ride scholarships. There are significant opportunities for partial scholarships and grants, however.

Well again, they don't usually give out full cost-of-attendance scholarships, but they DO give out full merit TUITION scholarships. However, those are rare and probably dwindling.

And to Tibula: yes, they count parental income. Basically, when you've been accepted, you have to fill out a bunch of VERY annoying forms that list all of your income/assets and your parents'. Schools calculate an "expected family contribution", meaning what your family could theoretically afford to contribute to your education, then take their own equation for calculating "need" (basically, each school will have a max expected family contribution after which you get all loans-- the main difference between schools' "generosity" has to do with what that limit is) and may or may not give you your "need" amount in school grants. So, say we're comparing like, Hopkins to GW. Hopkins has tons of money and is known to give pretty good need-based money. Say according to your various financial forms, you have an expected family contribution (efc) of 20,000. Now, GW might have a policy where you get 10,000 in grants if your efc is under 15,000. However, because you're over that minimum, all you get is loans. Hopkins, instead, might have a policy where you get full cost-of-attendance grants above 20,000. So, you could take out 20,000 in loans (or borrow them from your parents) and Hopkins covers the rest in grants. This is sort of a simplistic explanation, but that's the gist.

 

[MaximusD]

You're completely ignoring the difference between a St. George's foreign grad vs. an Oxford foreign grad. Someone going to St. George's has the stigma of not being good enough to get into a U.S. med school. If you're coming from a top 50 world med school, there's no stigma there. Oxford, etc. is no joke to get into, and if you got in there, you could probably have gotten into a US school. I had a academic physician even tell me that this was a decent idea.

No. Foreign grads are working against the system because our residencies have a priority to train US-trained docs first, period. Where do you think residency funding comes from... that's right, the gov't. I'm sorry, but I just don't think you're correct. Yes, an Oxford grad is going to look better than a SGU grad, but I maintain that if you want to practice in the US you should attend school in the US.

 

[slight365]

No. Foreign grads are working against the system because our residencies have a priority to train US-trained docs first, period. Where do you think residency funding comes from... that's right, the gov't. I'm sorry, but I just don't think you're correct. Yes, an Oxford grad is going to look better than a SGU grad, but I maintain that if you want to practice in the US you should attend school in the US.

That's way different than grouping all FMG's together to use the stigma that exists on this board of those initials. The moment someone says FMG here, it leads to images of the Caribbean or third world nations, or eastern Europe. There are those that maintain that residency matching also has to take into account the USMLE score, along with the rep of the school people come from. There simply are schools these people have no choice but to know about in terms of their medical school ranking, whether it's their national ranking, or their international one or both. Many international schools are at a higher level, just like the poster above mentioned. It's not even only Oxford. You have Cambridge, Zurich, Geneva, Heidelberg, Berlin, Munich, Bonn, Dresden, Aachen, and a host of others throughout Europe internationally recognized for their medical programs, as well as advancements in medical science. Hell, even with Heidelberg, it's hard for researchers to get around reading their publications. Even that research contributes to the ranking.

There is reciprocity in what the US has to accept, such as the J1 Visas for foreign students under the theory that they will take their skills back to better their own country, also has to be taken into account. You can't be a hypocrite in saying you'll give skills out to take back to another country, but not take any in return. J1's don't only go to people in developing countries. There is a statistical matching differences, but no one is going into the individual cases of why the matching is lower, such as scoring on the USMLE, and class ranking and school of origin and such. Instead, people are just grouping all FMG's together, pretending they are all the same, which isn't the case. The lesson is to be a top candidate and be lucky enough to go to a top international school.

 

[MaximusD]

That's way different than grouping all FMG's together to use the stigma that exists on this board of those initials. The moment someone says FMG here, it leads to images of the Caribbean or third world nations, or eastern Europe. There are those that maintain that residency matching also has to take into account the USMLE score, along with the rep of the school people come from. There simply are schools these people have no choice but to know about in terms of their medical school ranking, whether it's their national ranking, or their international one or both. Many international schools are at a higher level, just like the poster above mentioned. It's not even only Oxford. You have Cambridge, Zurich, Geneva, Heidelberg, Berlin, Munich, Bonn, Dresden, Aachen, and a host of others throughout Europe internationally recognized for their medical programs, as well as advancements in medical science. Hell, even with Heidelberg, it's hard for researchers to get around reading their publications. Even that research contributes to the ranking.

There is reciprocity in what the US has to accept, such as the J1 Visas for foreign students under the theory that they will take their skills back to better their own country, also has to be taken into account. You can't be a hypocrite in saying you'll give skills out to take back to another country. J1's don't only go to people in developing countries.

*Yawn* My dad's an immigration attorney. You aren't impressing me.

I'm speaking the truth, you can moan about it all you want. For ACGME residencies, the totem pole is US MDs>>>US DOs>FMGs(well regarded is >>crappy carib schools) This really doesn't apply unless you're going for a specialty that's not primary care.

 

[slight365]

OMG, you know someone who knows something about a post you read on the internet in a message board!

Your rating method is based first on the statistical overview, and the rest is based on what you feel should be the case. So in that light, just like most around here, you would rather take a fairly unspectacular med school in the US, than a top international med school overseas that can potentially provide more options, and a better quality of education along the way.

However, I noted now you're qualifying your opinion of the FMG rating. As we're both mentioning, there are schools in the rest of the world the people in the know (ie the admissions officers) have no choice but to know about from medical journals to molecular research journals. These are the same schools US schools have to collaborate on for discoveries, or give credit to when the US repeats an experiment or a procedure.

If you actually do a breakdown of why or who is not getting matched on the USMLE, it might be an interesting relationship.

 

[MaximusD]

OMG, you know someone who knows something about a post you read on the internet in a message board!

This is first-hand information from contacts I've made in the medical profession here in the US. I am a 2nd year medical student. Information as to entering the United States as a professional has been conveyed to me since a very young age on a daily basis, because my father is an immigration attorney. I am simply stating that I am aware of the barriers and the lack thereof with regard to immigrating physicians/etc.

Your rating method is based first on the statistical overview, and the rest is based on what you feel should be the case.

No it is my interpretation of the data I've come across combined with knowledge gained from being amongst med students and physicians.

So in that light, just like most around here, you would rather take a fairly unspectacular med school (NOW THIS IS OPINION) in the US, than a top international med school overseas that can potentially provide more options, and a better quality of education along the way.

No, I am choosing pragmatism over risk. Going to a lower-tier US medical school is a better bet than entering the match as an international grad, period, particularly if you are applying to a residency program that has already gained comfort with graduates from your institution. I will admit that extremely well-regarded schools such as OXFORD may compete on a level unlike other foreign medical institutions, but for most schools this example is not applicable.

However, I noted now you're qualifying your opinion of the FMG rating.

Thank you SO much for your acknowledgment!

It was implied in the first place. You just are just special and need me to spell everything out for you, because you're intellectually dishonest. Of course Oxford (your ridiculous hyperbolic example) is superior to no-name Carib schools in the match. Do you think that I am so obtuse that I don't understand the influence of prestige on career pathway?

 

[slight365]

Do you think that I am so obtuse that I don't understand the influence of prestige on career pathway?

Yeah.

 

[MossPoh]

You're completely ignoring the difference between a St. George's foreign grad vs. an Oxford foreign grad. Someone going to St. George's has the stigma of not being good enough to get into a U.S. med school. If you're coming from a top 50 world med school, there's no stigma there. Oxford, etc. is no joke to get into, and if you got in there, you could probably have gotten into a US school. I had a academic physician even tell me that this was a decent idea.

In reality it is somewhere inbetween what Max and you say. You aren't going to get in to oxford as an american for medical school, so using that as an example is crap. I was accepted to some German medical schools (Humboldt and Phillips Uni-Marburg). It is still difficult to come over here, which is why I decided against it. Part of the problem is that you aren't taught towards the USMLE, it is a 6 year program and you will still have to find a way to do clinical rotations your last year in the states. If you want internal medicine it isn't that bad, but things get a little trickier with more competitive specialities. If you happened to to graduate undergrad and choose to go to Germany for a medical education, you may have to retake all those obnoxious premed classes in addition to a year of solid German lessons and a Goethe certificate to show you know the language. So, upwards of 7 years total of education to get something you could've done in 4 in the states. 3 years lost salary more than equals anything but the worst debt. Keep in mind that you are also learning medicine under a different system and language in most european countries. Medical school is hard enough without having to relearn things in your native language.

 

[slight365]

In reality it is somewhere inbetween what Max and you say. You aren't going to get in to oxford as an american for medical school, so using that as an example is crap. I was accepted to some German medical schools (Humboldt and Phillips Uni-Marburg). It is still difficult to come over here, which is why I decided against it. Part of the problem is that you aren't taught towards the USMLE, it is a 6 year program and you will still have to find a way to do clinical rotations your last year in the states. If you want internal medicine it isn't that bad, but things get a little trickier with more competitive specialities. If you happened to to graduate undergrad and choose to go to Germany for a medical education, you may have to retake all those obnoxious premed classes in addition to a year of solid German lessons and a Goethe certificate to show you know the language. So, upwards of 7 years total of education to get something you could've done in 4 in the states. 3 years lost salary more than equals anything but the worst debt. Keep in mind that you are also learning medicine under a different system and language in most european countries. Medical school is hard enough without having to relearn things in your native language.

There are inaccuracies here.

One doesn't have to retake all those "obnoxious" pre-med classes. It boils down to a semester of medical Chem, Bio, and Physics to start. Then there are medical classes not even offered in US med schools that are within the program.

Part of the time in med school here is spent also working towards a thesis, which allows flexibility and post-doc work in the US, as well as other areas of academic work.

Additionally, the schools will not take a "Goethe Certificate". While they offer Pruefungen for the levels you have successfully completed, the issue remains that the tests required for German are one of two standardized tests. One is a national test, the DAF, and the other is the DSH, made up by individual universities.

Next is the issue of money making. German schools cost nearly nothing. Some are completely free, outside of <&#8364;200 semester fees.

As far as the system goes, the top schools structure under the "Harvard System", generally with cooperation from them in the operations of the program. This also yields associations between them and the school, which benefits students.

The language is 85% the same. Luckily, medical language is latin and greek, for the most part, and the terminology is nearly universal, with similarities where things are not the same, generally speaking.

For some, an international experience, little to no outlay of tuition, and the assurance of a world-class education makes it worth it.

 

[MaximusD]

In reality it is somewhere inbetween what Max and you say. You aren't going to get in to oxford as an american for medical school, so using that as an example is crap. I was accepted to some German medical schools (Humboldt and Phillips Uni-Marburg). It is still difficult to come over here, which is why I decided against it. Part of the problem is that you aren't taught towards the USMLE, it is a 6 year program and you will still have to find a way to do clinical rotations your last year in the states. If you want internal medicine it isn't that bad, but things get a little trickier with more competitive specialities. If you happened to to graduate undergrad and choose to go to Germany for a medical education, you may have to retake all those obnoxious premed classes in addition to a year of solid German lessons and a Goethe certificate to show you know the language. So, upwards of 7 years total of education to get something you could've done in 4 in the states. 3 years lost salary more than equals anything but the worst debt. Keep in mind that you are also learning medicine under a different system and language in most european countries. Medical school is hard enough without having to relearn things in your native language.

I don't see how that's off of what I said at all. I think what you said is spot-on.

 

[235750]

I don't see how that's off of what I said at all. I think what you said is spot-on.

Yep, listen to Max and Moss as they are saying the same thing. Don't go to school outside of the US for cost reasons if you want to practice in the US, it makes no sense.

Many of us were accepted to medical school outside of the US (England for me), but if you want to practice in the US, then stay in the US. Period.

Back to the issue of cost: I would listen to the majority of people here and say, don't worry about it. Unless you are in the top 1% of medical school students, in the armed forces, or in the NHSC, you will be in debt. Plenty of hopsitals will offer loan forgiveness as part of your compensation package. I personally hope to work for the VA and they offer a great loan giveness program

Good luck to you