For Attorney/Law students/well... anybody

[MedLaw]

For those of you who did not take the needed pre-reqs in undergrad and later decided to go to medical school, how did you manage to fit in time for the pre-reqs? I'm especially interested in attorneys and those who had jobs which required them working 50-60 hours a week.

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[bipolardoc]

For those of you who did not take the needed pre-reqs in undergrad and later decided to go to medical school, how did you manage to fit in time for the pre-reqs? I'm especially interested in attorneys and those who had jobs which required them working 50-60 hours a week.

I am not a lawyer, but I follow this site quite a bit and had known of people in similar situations. I would say little by little, two classes at a time or less. Try night school, it's hard to work full-time and manage to go to classes full-time. I am thinking leaving work and going to a postbacc full-time isn't an option because if it was that would be the best option. Otherwise your looking at 2+ years including summers and taking it step at a time slowly before you get done with your pre-reqs. There are quite a number of ex-lawyers on here that can give you their feedback as well...
Good Luck...

 

[pdlaw2000]

You said it, little by little, I'm signed up to take two classes this term, one at 8:00 am - 9:15 am (works with Court Schedule), and one at night.

 

[MedLaw]

Thanks Bipolardoc and pdlaw!

Little by little is my current plan. I'm a second year law student but will be able to fit zoology in this next semester. I will have 17 hours, which is a lot for law school, but 5 of those will be Zoo and the lab. I'm just worried about a) maintaining my GPA and class ranking towards the top 1/5 of the class and b) fitting enough law school credits in to graduate on time.

 

[Law2Doc]

For those of you who did not take the needed pre-reqs in undergrad and later decided to go to medical school, how did you manage to fit in time for the pre-reqs? I'm especially interested in attorneys and those who had jobs which required them working 50-60 hours a week.

Law students and lawyers are not similarly situated. Speaking from the attorney perspectie, if you work 60 hours per week, you cannot take a premed course on top of that and hope to do it justice. It's simply too important to get A's in the prereqs if you hope to go down this road. Plus you are going to need to be working in some clinical experience on top of this, this is effectively a "prereq" for admission to med school these days. And ultimately studying for the MCAT on top of all this, as well as applying/interviewing. So honestly at some point it will be necessary to quit such a job, maybe do contract work part-time, but clean out your schedule so you can devote the majority to classwork. Little by little might be the way you start initially, but few find it gives you the opportunity to devote adequate time to the coursework, and law has a nasty habit of getting busy when you can least afford it. So yeah, I'd say the majority of full time lawyers quit their jobs at some point during the postbac process. It's a lot like stepping off a cliff -- you have to be sure of your abilities in this endeavor, and work without a safety net.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Totally agree with L2D on this one, every major change (grad school, relocating to a new city, pre-med) required my stopping one thing and stepping off that cliff. It is not easy at all, but in this game there are too many smart, driven people for any applicant to skate by with Bs.

As one adcomm told me, "we expect As from our nontraditional students, that's typically what we see" (and here I was all proud of my mostly post bacc As). Another told me that candidates successful in other ventures must prove to a greater extent that they're really committed to medicine.

In my pre-med experience, after a certain time in the evening, my brain stops being able to comprehend things like tough ochem problems; it takes 30 minutes to do 10 minutes' work. Some postbacc stuff (and mcat study stuff) is like that, I can't see how one can do really well studying from 10pm-midnight after a grueling lawyer day.

Also, why pass the bar if the intent is to immediately (or shortly thereafter) start med school?

 

[futureboy]

Also, why pass the bar if the intent is to immediately (or shortly thereafter) start med school?

The OP may not get in to medical school, or may want to practice law in some limited capacity after becoming a doctor. If the OP wants to practice law at any point in the future, it's much easier to pass the bar exam right after law school while the material is fresh rather than try to remember the stuff years later, even with a review course. After you pass the bar, you can maintain your license by taking continuing legal education classes, or if you don't have time for the classes, you can put your license on inactive status (at least in my state) and reactivate later.

 

[futureboy]

Law students and lawyers are not similarly situated. Speaking from the attorney perspectie, if you work 60 hours per week, you cannot take a premed course on top of that and hope to do it justice.

As a practicing attorney, I agree 100%.

law has a nasty habit of getting busy when you can least afford it.

If you're in litigation, the judge isn't going to give a s**t if you have an ochem final the night before you're scheduled to start a trial. Clients are the same way.

 

[pdlaw2000]

As an example of how law can get in the way of school, as part of my preperation for going back to school, I have decided to drop Criminal Defense from my practice, so I have one case left, it was suppose to go to trial earlier this month, so I was on track to get it over with, I showed up for trial ready to go, and the Judge re-scheduled the trial due to unavailability of a State witness, and rescheduled it to the first day of classes at the end of August.

What could I say, "no, judge can we move it to saturday, that day is not good for me, I have to attend Chem I class"

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

Law students and lawyers are not similarly situated. Speaking from the attorney perspectie, if you work 60 hours per week, you cannot take a premed course on top of that and hope to do it justice. It's simply too important to get A's in the prereqs if you hope to go down this road. Plus you are going to need to be working in some clinical experience on top of this, this is effectively a "prereq" for admission to med school these days. And ultimately studying for the MCAT on top of all this, as well as applying/interviewing. So honestly at some point it will be necessary to quit such a job, maybe do contract work part-time, but clean out your schedule so you can devote the majority to classwork. Little by little might be the way you start initially, but few find it gives you the opportunity to devote adequate time to the coursework, and law has a nasty habit of getting busy when you can least afford it. So yeah, I'd say the majority of full time lawyers quit their jobs at some point during the postbac process. It's a lot like stepping off a cliff -- you have to be sure of your abilities in this endeavor, and work without a safety net.

For those of us paying out of pocket, that's medical school in a nutshell, haha.

 

[WonderWoman123]

i'm 27 and have been practicing law for 2 years. i was a business/finance major in undergrad and likely have zero science courses that would count for anything. just like all the others on this thread, i am willing to give it all up and go back to school full-time for 230498 years. that's ok by me, although everyone around me thinks i am absolutely delirious. my question is that i have no idea where to begin. i would like to plan on starting my pre-reqs in january 2009, but i'm confused as to all this talk of volunteering/shadowing in addition to all the classes I have to take. i've considered reading up on the basic science classes since it's been awhile...and i've signed up to speak with an academic advisor, but does anyone have any additional insight to this chaos?? a million thanks in advance

 

[atomi]

For those of you who did not take the needed pre-reqs in undergrad and later decided to go to medical school, how did you manage to fit in time for the pre-reqs? I'm especially interested in attorneys and those who had jobs which required them working 50-60 hours a week.

Whatever you do, don't stop working and go back to school full-time using loans. Get a part-time job or a 9-5 job and do night school. Going into debt for premed post-bacc coursework is madness.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

i'm 27 and have been practicing law for 2 years. i was a business/finance major in undergrad and likely have zero science courses that would count for anything. just like all the others on this thread, i am willing to give it all up and go back to school full-time for 230498 years. that's ok by me, although everyone around me thinks i am absolutely delirious. my question is that i have no idea where to begin. i would like to plan on starting my pre-reqs in january 2009, but i'm confused as to all this talk of volunteering/shadowing in addition to all the classes I have to take. i've considered reading up on the basic science classes since it's been awhile...and i've signed up to speak with an academic advisor, but does anyone have any additional insight to this chaos?? a million thanks in advance

You know, you've got a long road ahead of you, so it's OK to not get on the volunteering and shadowing right now. My vote is to get your school stuff lined up first (figure out where you're going and how many classes to take) and then go to the volunteering next. Basically you want at least a good solid year of volunteering/health care experience when applying.

Here's my story, which might not work for lots of people. I graduated from law school with zero interest in practicing (didn't know I wanted to be a doctor at that point), so I got a non-legal insurance job where I worked 40 hours/week and got decent pay. Then when I decided I wanted to go to medical school, I started taking 1 to 2 classes at night -- I was lucky in that I was a chem minor in ugrad, so I had all my chem and math classes. Then I started volunteering one to two nights a week. It worked for me because I wasn't in a situation where I had to cash to pay for school and living expenses without working, and I really didn't want to borrow money for postbacc work. So maybe investigating quasi-legal work or, yeah, contracting, might be a good idea. Health care jobs are also an option because that gives you experience and some money, but the pay for non-trained health care workers is pretty abysmal.

 

[Law2Doc]

You know, you've got a long road ahead of you, so it's OK to not get on the volunteering and shadowing right now. My vote is to get your school stuff lined up first (figure out where you're going and how many classes to take) and then go to the volunteering next.

I actually would take the opposite approach because it's better to get some exposure to medicine before you go whole hog down this road. I mean, what if you do some volunteering/shadowing and decide "boy, this isn't what I though it would be like at all; I could never do this kind of work"? It's thus kind of important to research this earlier in the decision point, before you pull the plug on work and line up classes. So I would recommend shadowing first, and really pick the brains of any doctors you work with. Then look into postbac options. Then dump your job to spend as much time as necessary to get A's. If you find you are doing well, then add back in some parttime contract work or something. And all the while, spend a few hours/week volunteering at a local hospital, so you have a decent long exposure to healthcare. But I think if you do shadowing first, it paints a better picture of researching your decision before you make a jump, which (a) looks better thought out, and (b) probably helps you make better decisions.

 

[Newmanium]

I actually would take the opposite approach because it's better to get some exposure to medicine before you go whole hog down this road. I mean, what if you do some volunteering/shadowing and decide "boy, this isn't what I though it would be like at all; I could never do this kind of work"? It's thus kind of important to research this earlier in the decision point, before you pull the plug on work and line up classes. So I would recommend shadowing first, and really pick the brains of any doctors you work with. Then look into postbac options. Then dump your job to spend as much time as necessary to get A's. If you find you are doing well, then add back in some parttime contract work or something. And all the while, spend a few hours/week volunteering at a local hospital, so you have a decent long exposure to healthcare. But I think if you do shadowing first, it paints a better picture of researching your decision before you make a jump, which (a) looks better thought out, and (b) probably helps you make better decisions.

Just what I was going to say.

I'm just at the beginning of my pre-med journey, and already having some doubts (with the amount of time/money at stake, I think you'd have to be crazy not to). Can't wait to start my ER volunteering to either give me some motivation, or wake me up so I can go do something more sane with my life.

It's mentioned rarely on here, but medicine isn't for everyone - for some, the costs may outweigh the benefits. It's better to find that out sooner than later.

 

[WonderWoman123]

All the insights have been great! Thanks so much. My only question left then is shadowing. I know it's not the same thing as volunteering, but how would one go about - in my shoes w/ zero medical exposure - asking a doctor to follow them around?

 

[ChairmanMao]

All the insights have been great! Thanks so much. My only question left then is shadowing. I know it's not the same thing as volunteering, but how would one go about - in my shoes w/ zero medical exposure - asking a doctor to follow them around?

It's fairly simple: do you know any physicians? Do you have any relatives who work in the healthcare field (not necessarily as doctors, but assistants, technicians, technologist), do you have friends who are in medical school or who are doing fellowships at hospitals? The first thing to do would probably be to call them up or send them an e-mail and just briefly mention your interest. Then, if they're supportive and on good terms with the attending physicians that they work with, they would probably offer to set up some kind of arrangement for you to come in for a few hours every weeks so that you can follow them around.

This is what I did. I knew a couple of friends in high school whose parents were physicians, and I simply called them up and talked with them, told them about my plans (it's been several years since I graduated from high school and last spoke to them, and they were thrilled about my decision to go into medicine). They allowed me to follow them around during one of their "off days" on a Friday (when they didn't have too many patients). It's usually a good idea to find a physician who works in a teaching hospital affiliated with a medical school because part of their job is to train medical students and they have a better idea of what to show you.

I was lucky because my friend's dad, aside from working as a clinician, was also on the faculty of the hospital's medical school and supervised the medical student and fellowship training. He was really good at making me feel comfortable the whole time I was there because he introduced me to the patients and also took time out to explain to me some of the symptoms that he saw. I don't know if you'll get the same experience with every physician that you shadow, but I would suggest that you find someone who works at a university medical center or who has a faculty position and who you might know on a personal basis.

 

[ChairmanMao]

For those of you who did not take the needed pre-reqs in undergrad and later decided to go to medical school, how did you manage to fit in time for the pre-reqs? I'm especially interested in attorneys and those who had jobs which required them working 50-60 hours a week.

We used to have a running gag among new associates at our law firm: "What do you call an attorney who works 40-50 hrs/week at B---- & V--- LLP? Laid-off!" Actually the new associates had a point because their job was so demanding and time consuming that they barely had time to do anything else. Although I don't have a law degree, I used to work as a lateral staff for an IP management and tech transfer firm. I am going to be upfront and say that it would probably be better if you took a less demanding job or a part-time position rather than a 50-60 hour/week job while you're doing your medical prerequisites.

I have worked in a law firm and with new attorneys fresh out of law school and I am going to say that they have an insane schedule and workload. A lot of times, they work 70-80 hrs/week in order to have enough billable hours and to meet their productivity quotas. The reason why is because the new hires get assigned most of the "grunt work" and have to deal with the nitty gritty legal matters. I don't know what your plans are, but if you're thinking about working at one of the big law firms once you get out of school, you will pretty much have no time for anything else except cases and client dockets.

I would highly recommend that you find a way to avoid working on a regular schedule since you will probably need a job that gives you the afternoons and weekends off so that you can attend classes and shadow physicians. It hard to find a job that offers that kind of flexibility if you're straight out of law school. I would look to doing contract work or temp jobs that some firms have with government agencies or non profit organization. I know a friend who got married straight out of law school, decided to have kids and so took a less demanding job with a non-profit so that she can take a few days off every week to care for her baby. I think those kinds of jobs are ideally suited to someone in your situation who needs to use a large amount of time to complete your prerequisites.