For all you competitive people...

[sykosomatik]

By the way....just so that you don't think I'm picking on IMGs....

I also feel this with U.S. grads. I'd hate to see a stellar student from a
"lower-ranked" university get edged out of a competitive program by some less impressive student from a name brand university because somehow that school's name carries more weight with the PD.

For example, at my school, one of the PD's of a prestigious department was telling me stellar applicants from our school were often being refused interviews by this one particular prestigious medical school. It just seemed like this school was somehow "overlooking" our candidates because they weren't coming from Harvard or what not. Finally, the PD did the right thing and threatened to do the same to applicant's from this prestigious school if they treated future deserving applicants in the same manner.

There are lots of people who don't have to put in the level of sacrifice that other students do...legacies...faculty's children....pedigree applicants. Maybe some of them are truly smart and deserve the position they got....but others clearly have arrived at the same place through very unfair means.

C'est la vie.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Qtip96]

hmmm... anyone else notice this trend of "new members" dedicating their very first entries into this specific thread? uncanny how they have the same ******ed opinions, and that these "new" respondents go to some length to hide being "new members" by filling in "Junior Member" in their avatars.

Well hello there! One of the IMGs, I presume...

Are you an IMG? I'm thinking you are...

uh, surprise surprise...

...Personally I would have a hard time allowing myself to be on par with an IMG or some lazy person who is in my field who just knew how to play the game...

syklosomatik = MuppetHorn = Benassi = H_Caulfield

enough is enough already. stop it. no one here is interested in the assinine opinions of a narcicisstic and ******ed medical student.

if you haven't noticed, this is a forum for CARDIOLOGY under INTERNAL MEDICINE AND IM SUBSPECIALTIES. don't come here pissing all over our house. troll around in the medical student forums for crying out loud.

 

[drbon]

hey caulfield, sykosomatic, whatever your name is. there are plenty of IMGs who are nowhere near "lazy" and work their a$$es off all through med school and get the same board scores as you and probably have a better bedside manner than half the US grads and will make great, if not better, docs....don't hate 'em just because they were out having fun in college while you were stuck in your dorm room studying organic chem every night

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

hey caulfield, sykosomatic, whatever your name is. there are plenty of IMGs who are nowhere near "lazy" and work their a$$es off all through med school and get the same board scores as you and probably have a better bedside manner than half the US grads and will make great, if not better, docs....don't hate 'em just because they were out having fun in college while you were stuck in your dorm room studying organic chem every night

you can say that again!!!

 

[Teejay]

Whoever made the initial post that led to all this ranting is not only pathetic but is an dingus. Who are you to talk down on FMG? What makes you think you're better than they are. I went to an ivy-league for college and now i'm in an ivy-league med-school but i've never concieved the thought of anyone being below me because he or she is not in an ivy-league. People like you are the racist and segregationist who don't deserve the title of a physician. Go back to your dictionary or books and learn the proper definition of a physician. Your comments makes you ass not a doctor.

 

[sphere]

and shut up.

To steal from your pen-name's lexicon, you are a "phony."

You will need a BIG attitude change if you are going to get through that 3 year IM residency, let alone the fact -- for the rest of your career -- of dealing with patients with multiple complaints, and a crazy health-care system.

Honestly, I have to second the notion that you strike me as much more someone suited for something very low impact such as Derm or Opthy. You'll feel like your test scores and grades got you there, you'll be done in just a few years, you'll make a lot of money and you won't have to deal with the stuff you complain about.

It seems most of what you're looking for is to be patted on the back and pat yourself on the back in turn.

 

[drbruce]

sykosomatik,

What makes you think that IMGs don't have to run a guantlett? We have a much harder time than US graduates.

 

[Fascia Lata]

Are you an IMG? I'm thinking you are. Maybe I was a bit abrasive in my previous post. I personally know some IMGs, and they are decent doctors. I didn't necessarily mean to belittle all IMGs.

Nonetheless, I still agree with Caulfield's post. I don't think IMGs have to go through the type of gauntlet that US students have to. That's essentially his main argument - why did he have to go through such a difficult process that that someone was able to circumvent and still arrive at the same position.

Basically it seems like these people have not paid their dues and yet get to claim the same rewards.

i agree

 

[H_Caulfield]

Whoever made the initial post that led to all this ranting is not only pathetic but is an dingus. Who are you to talk down on FMG? What makes you think you're better than they are. I went to an ivy-league for college and now i'm in an ivy-league med-school but i've never concieved the thought of anyone being below me because he or she is not in an ivy-league. People like you are the racist and segregationist who don't deserve the title of a physician. Go back to your dictionary or books and learn the proper definition of a physician. Your comments makes you ass not a doctor.

You guys are all trying to argue a ridiculous point. An IMG coming out of school is just as competent as someone who is American-schooled? I know you're all trying to be politically correct, or justify the path you've taken, but come on. How can the curriculum be the same, or the pace, or the demands, when the entire class was so much less qualified at the start? They'd be able to keep up? I know you'd all like to think so, but please...be honest with yourselves (just for the sake of this argument, here, and then you can run back to the warm embrace of your ego-boosting illusions). If they were equally qualified, every USMLE-prep company wouldn't market their 10,000-dollar courses specifically to them.

Teejay? You're really from ivy-league schools? Well...please refer to YOUR dictionary and look up the spelling of the words "conceived" and "segregationalist." I've already looked up "physician," and it said something about competence and knowledge, both of which I have. You're wrong if you think my personal opinions have anything to do with my ability to diagnose and treat.

 

[tivark]

You guys are all trying to argue a ridiculous point. An IMG coming out of school is just as competent as someone who is American-schooled? I know you're all trying to be politically correct, or justify the path you've taken, but come on. How can the curriculum be the same, or the pace, or the demands, when the entire class was so much less qualified at the start? They'd be able to keep up? I know you'd all like to think so, but please...be honest with yourselves (just for the sake of this argument, here, and then you can run back to the warm embrace of your ego-boosting illusions). If they were equally qualified, every USMLE-prep company wouldn't market their 10,000-dollar courses specifically to them.

buddy you make it sound like the only reason IMG's do well is because of these thousand dollar courses. and you ask if theyre able to keep up with the rest? haha.

theres a spectrum my friend. top 5% / bottom 5% etc.

you forget some IMGs have had the chance to work in medicine for years before becoming your fellow intern. some even specialists at their field.

some that just got out of school are the top 2% of their class in a country where only the top 0.05% of applicants get into med school. hence their double if not triple 260s in their boards (in a place where the curriculum does not cater to USMLE styled exams or does not allocate time to prepare for these exams) . and man if you follow the IMG match closely, these applicants seem to be a dime a dozen these days.

bottom line my friend, dont be lazy and generalise. it leaves you disadvantaged. if youre as good as you claim to be, you should be matching at someplace competitive. and if that place has IMG's, rest assured he would be as qualified, if not more qualified than you. assuming he isnt because he's an IMG makes you look plain lazy and ignorant. or you can continue to drown in denial by assuming he got the grades because of a $10 000 course.

 

[Teejay]

You guys are all trying to argue a ridiculous point. An IMG coming out of school is just as competent as someone who is American-schooled? I know you're all trying to be politically correct, or justify the path you've taken, but come on. How can the curriculum be the same, or the pace, or the demands, when the entire class was so much less qualified at the start? They'd be able to keep up? I know you'd all like to think so, but please...be honest with yourselves (just for the sake of this argument, here, and then you can run back to the warm embrace of your ego-boosting illusions). If they were equally qualified, every USMLE-prep company wouldn't market their 10,000-dollar courses specifically to them.

Teejay? You're really from ivy-league schools? Well...please refer to YOUR dictionary and look up the spelling of the words "conceived" and "segregationalist." I've already looked up "physician," and it said something about competence and knowledge, both of which I have. You're wrong if you think my personal opinions have anything to do with my ability to diagnose and treat.

Trust me buddy, you're a real idiot. Like i said before, You are pathetic. Your words define your ability to practice because you can't seperate your words from you. They are one and the same. I hope you never get to practice because your opinions can transcend into something heinous and dangerous to your patients. Even if you get to practice, i hope you pay heavily for it if you retain this pig-headed atitude. If you can look down on your future colleagues now that you are nothing, you'll probably cause more harm to your patients when you are something because of your egostic atitude.
Yes, I'm from an ivy-league school and because i did'nt cross-check my words and spellings when i was typing just explains how outraged and infuriated i felt about your stupid comment. I'm a European born and raised American and i know that graduates from all those countries are very competent just like American doctors. Even if you think they're not, what gives you the impetus to think they're not? Your "KNOWLEDGE"??
Your dictionary says something about competence and knowledge, but the practice of medicine is more than book knowledge. It also incoporates altruism, humility, selflessness and intelligence which you probably lack cuz if you have it, your mind and atitude will be completely different. I hope you change in time before you enter the real world because you're headed for real doom if you continue in this path.

 

[kbommar]

wow... the original poster is a huge gunner tool. glad i didn't go to med school with him.

yeah man... go into ENT or rads. i'd hate to be on the wards with a hater like you.

 

[idiotpathic]

hi there dude

u got issues.. remem there are imgs who went thru their country's entrance exams. ever heard of 200000 candidates applyin for 12000 spots?? and then these folks clear the mle's while doing housejobs without specialised courses in their schools for the mles. they then work a coupla rotations here in the usa and prove their mettle among amgs and try for good reco letters. do an mph and then do some more research and get board scores in the 260's in all 3 steps. and then are humble when they iview at birmingham, baylor, emory, iowa and other top programs. they cant apply to every university since they need a visa and then spend cash (without the liberty of loans) to go to 25+ iviews so that they are sure of a good spot. and are happy even if they are at a good community program at st luke roosevelt in nyc bcoz they know they will shine again in the residency and get a cardiology spot on their merit.

yes my friend u were priveleged to be born in the usa and to have trained in the system. there were others who were good too but were not born here and did stellar in their own country.

no this is not exactly my story. and no im not here to fight about the merits of amgs vs imgs. im grateful i have a chance in this country. and i think the system is fair considering the fact that i have no absolute ties here.

and there is no place where there arent any imgs. unless u feel brigham and women and mass general and jhu degrade themelves by accepting imgs..

i wish u well. i hope u are never humbled by a "mere" IMG. and if u are - i pray god gives u the strength to not break down.

may the force be with u always..

 

[gwen]

i'll only speak for indian and pakistani IMGs since i know plenty of them, am indian and know the indian medical entrance examination/graduation process from having family members go through it. i am a US grad just for clarification.

the indian IMGs who got into med school on their own merit (not by "donating" money to the med schools) are EXTREMELY smart. although a pretty ridiculous thing to do, but most indian children are brought up thinking that they need to be either a doctor, lawyer or engineer (i'll refer you to a thread under "india" on SDN where basically a kid was told by his parents that his options were and i quote here "MD -> DO -> Dentist -> PA -> PT/OT -> Death". the competition is ridiculously tough because everyone and their mother wants to excel in school and school only.

anyway, my point being that its VERY competitive to get into medical school in india...people have committed suicide if they didn't make it to the top 1% of their class.

soooo, my second point is that taking the USMLEs is practically a joke for most indian IMGs. they take the training to be on the safe side and learn the US system...since there are different methods of teaching between the US and India (which, btw, does not equte to a lesser education in either country). most tests in india are "essay format" or oral exams, not MCQs. i'm sure someone going from here to india would want to brush up on their biochemistry for their step 1 equivalent test if it had been 4 years since first year of med school. from what i was told, i've heard that the indian exams are super tough and that the UK PLAB (??spelling) test is the toughest. if there are some indian IMGs here, please add your input.

i think its fine that the US protects its graduates and gives them preference. but i definitely think that (at least) indian/pakistani IMGs get a bad rep and bias just because they are IMGs. i think an indian IMG could be just as good if not better than an US grad when it comes to medicine.

 

[idiotpathic]

after havin studied for an indian entrance exam - plab, mrcp, usmle, mksap - not difficult.

thank u gwen.

 

[DrWBD]

If you look at the match list of the best hospitals' IM programs, very very few take IMGs (American or otherwise) or DO's. Thus, if your goal is to do IM with only American MDs the best place to go would be those hospitals.

 

[Polish RzuR]

Can I change the topic a bit...?A very interesting discussion,but I don't really follow those contraction and symbols..IM=Internal Medicine,but IMG??? I don't really wanna interrupt Your debate,but can U send me somwhere where I can figure them out a bit?thank U,and best regards from Poland

 

[Teejay]

Can I change the topic a bit...?A very interesting discussion,but I don't really follow those contraction and symbols..IM=Internal Medicine,but IMG??? I don't really wanna interrupt Your debate,but can U send me somwhere where I can figure them out a bit?thank U,and best regards from Poland

It probably means International Medical Graduate OR something of that nature!

 

[MDstudent79]

I don't want to take sides. But one fact is clear. Very few of the top kids in medical school end up choosing IM. There is without doubt a stigma amongst many medical students that IM is 'inferior.'

Please don't rail me. I'm just stating a very common opinion. I don't have my own opinions on this, especially since I'm considering IM. I understand very well that students who match at top 20 IM programs could have also matched into derm, ortho, etc.

I don't really have any "side" on this, but I think a more accurate way of putting the above is that IM has a larger percentage of average and below-average med students than more competitive fields like, say, dermatology or orthopedics. However, the stats show that the spread of board scores is huge for IM, and I know of plenty of very impressive students interested in IM specialties.

I think the difference between IM and the more competitive specialties isn't so much that "very few" of the best students are interested in IM, but rather that there are MANY, MANY more IM spots available than dermatology, ortho, plastics, EM, rads, etc. So those residency programs can more easily reject less qualified students. But I'd hardly say that IM is filled with nothing but med students at the bottom third of their class or something like that.

 

[Polish RzuR]

From my position(in central Europe) I see very big difference in perception of Internal Medicine between Europe and the US.For example in Europe derm is,in short,rather ridiculous specialization and IM is considered as a way to do REAL medicine,and something for elites of medical schools.Of course as well it is the most popular specialization taken after the studies.

 

[marcus pupil]

Okay, I have had it. I have read, and read until, now it hurts to read anymore. Lets state the facts.
When I was in my psyc rotation, My attending who spent 10 years as a neurosurgeon in India is now a psychiatrist. Now, I want to ask if anyone of you could make that sacrifice. Do you know what it took for him to even get that residency? He got turned down from hundreds of bad FP programs before he finaly settled on Psyc.
Here is a thought, if a person from undergrad made all that sacrifice and ended up in a subpar US medical school and ended up getting a 220 in his boards, he could make it into a decent surgery program. However, a person who found undergrad a challenge, worked hard in school but had to work full time to take care of his family/bills(didnt have rich parents to pay his tuition). Thought his dream of becoming a doctor was dead, but found an alternate route (caribbean), studied his butt off to be the best he can be, got a 4.0 in school, and a 99 in his step, has over $200 000 in school loans - but hold on, he cant even think about getting into a top IM program (bye bye cardiology). Heck, he wont even think about derm, optha, rad onc etc. Rad is a stretch, and he/she has to be a good candidate to get into surgery. He gets laughed at when he mentions that he wants to go to John Hopkins (even I laugh ... ha ha ha)
Stop talking about what is fair and what is not. I know IMGs (not FMGs) who have done externships for 2 yrs, trying to get a FP residency. I even personally know one that has been in this country, with his MD degree, and cleaned houses, sweeped floors and mowed lawns, while spoiled brats like you almost run him over with your M3 BMW. This person came to the US since 1994 and is just getting out of his residency in FP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the land of opportunity, everybody deserves a chance. If ur credentials are good, u will get what u deserve. it is very hard for an IMG/FMG from a community IM prog. to get into cards. IT IS HARD. U will always get what u deserve. If u really want recognition, be a pioneer. Enter academic medicine and develop a new discovery either that or be heroic in your patient management (at your own risk) and find a way to extract a tumor from a patient with glioblastoma multi, and u r on ur way to CNN ( i like DR GUPTA).

 

[marcus pupil]

By the way H_Caulfield, any time you want a break, u can aim me, and we'll get to see who really knows more medicine!!!!

 

[gwen]

marcus pupil, in hindi we say "bolti band". if you're not familiar with hindi, just ask someone who does. that comment is towards H_caulfield, not you.

 

[hans19]

wow... the original poster is a huge gunner tool. glad i didn't go to med school with him.

yeah man... go into ENT or rads. i'd hate to be on the wards with a hater like you.

Hey we don't like that type in radiology, either...

 

[Chenny]

Re: Original post

You chose to work as hard as you did. Now you realise that you could have gotten to where you want to be (IM - Cardiology, I believe) with a lot less effort, and you sound bitter about it. What have you learnt from this experience?

I know students who have brilliant minds - they were International Mathematics Olympians who won gold medals as teenagers - who decided to pursue their passion for mathematics by taking a simple Bachelor of Science degree. In Australia getting into a BSc at the best universities (in Sydney or Melbourne) only requires an ENTER (Equivalent National Tertiary Entrance Rank) of something like 80. These students have achieved results that puts them at the top of the nation - 99.95 - but they absolutely LOVE what they are doing and couldn't imagine doing anything else and are more than happy to share their gifts and achievements with anyone interested. I think it's because they're at peace with who they are, and hence, are able to see the bigger picture - they realize and accept that they have a lot of talent; they are able to achieve amazing things because they are talented and hard working; and therefore, they are able to contribute significantly to their chosen fields. But at the end of the day, they're just human beings like you and me - we all come and go, and the world goes on long after we are no longer.

The same goes for very high achieving medical students, I guess. If you've done really well and compare well with your peers, then by all means, share your achievements. However, bear in mind the big picture: you're really no different to anyone else - you're just human and are subject to the human condition. It is tempting to feel superior to others because you've excelled academically, but academic achievement is fleeting, and is more a secondary consequence of being a means to and end and not an end in itself. What is more enduring, I think, is what you do with the achievement measured in terms of real (positive) outcomes for the rest of humanity (okay, perhaps less grandiose, other human beings). For when you are gone, perhaps it would reassuring to know, that your personal achievements, while serving to make you feel special and good about yourself, will also be remembered with appreciation and gratitude by those who remain after you, because you made such a geniune difference to their lives as well.

I'm an undergrad in Australia, thinking seriously about graduate medical school for many years now. And I'm finally beginning to come out of my own egocentric world, and the people who have posted to this thread have helped me in this challenging but necessary, I think, process of change. I say 'Thank you', and I hope I have managed to convey the constructive message I was trying to pass on too.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

i'll only speak for indian and pakistani IMGs since i know plenty of them, am indian and know the indian medical entrance examination/graduation process from having family members go through it. i am a US grad just for clarification.

the indian IMGs who got into med school on their own merit (not by "donating" money to the med schools) are EXTREMELY smart. although a pretty ridiculous thing to do, but most indian children are brought up thinking that they need to be either a doctor, lawyer or engineer (i'll refer you to a thread under "india" on SDN where basically a kid was told by his parents that his options were and i quote here "MD -> DO -> Dentist -> PA -> PT/OT -> Death". the competition is ridiculously tough because everyone and their mother wants to excel in school and school only.

anyway, my point being that its VERY competitive to get into medical school in india...people have committed suicide if they didn't make it to the top 1% of their class.

soooo, my second point is that taking the USMLEs is practically a joke for most indian IMGs. they take the training to be on the safe side and learn the US system...since there are different methods of teaching between the US and India (which, btw, does not equte to a lesser education in either country). most tests in india are "essay format" or oral exams, not MCQs. i'm sure someone going from here to india would want to brush up on their biochemistry for their step 1 equivalent test if it had been 4 years since first year of med school. from what i was told, i've heard that the indian exams are super tough and that the UK PLAB (??spelling) test is the toughest. if there are some indian IMGs here, please add your input.

i think its fine that the US protects its graduates and gives them preference. but i definitely think that (at least) indian/pakistani IMGs get a bad rep and bias just because they are IMGs. i think an indian IMG could be just as good if not better than an US grad when it comes to medicine.

Everything true above except.....the UK based entrance exams (aka PLABs) are much easier than the USMLE exams. The PLABS are actually much more like the COMPLEX exams the osteopaths take here.

 

[Mixmaster]

I think that it is at least reasonable to understand the original post. I also would like to point out that many of the FMG's come with zero or near zero debt. US grads on the otherhand not only deal with HIGH undergrad debt but even HIGHER Medical School debt. Upon graduation from residency/fellowship we get similar jobs but the US grad needs to work at least an entire year to pay all the debt off. I know we can all agree that there is something wrong with this picture. I do give credit to the FMG's -- the USMLE is not an easy exam --- imagine taking the exam with english as your second language.

 

[marcus pupil]

lots of caribbean FMGs (US citizens) have the same debt or even more. Don't know about thoses from india, korea etc

 

[Mixmaster]

Oh yeah your right about the Caribbean students. I meant the FMG's from India, Asia, and the Middle East. I actually know some and they told me $0 debt.

 

[gwen]

like i said, indian IMGs who went to med school based on merit (meaning they are like einstein)...don't have to pay a cent (umm, a paisa) to go to med school in india. the government pays for them.

those who are still using their daddy's credit card at the age of 45, on the other hand, used their daddy's credit card to pay for school...so are also NOT in debt.

 

[Chandy]

Just want to make a clarification....

FMG are foreign medical grads, basically students studying in medical schools in their own countries.

IMGs- ppl graduating from medical schools outside their countries.

Now, Medical school in the US often confers no better education than an FMG in his/her own country. But residency in the US seems to train ppl better than postgrad programs internationally. This is mainly because of the attitude to teaching and resident autonomy rather than the US being the only place to practice strong medicine.

Students from medical schools in London, or the All India Institute of Medical Sciences in Delhi (AIIMS) would run circles around most US grads. because:
1) They are the best of the best in a country of 1.3 billion ppl. where everyone would like to do medicine if they could.

2) They study their asses off because medical school is tougher (BY a mile).

3) They have much more independence in hospitals and have access to a broader patient population and get to see pathology that you would never see in the US.

Then they come to the US to do post-grad training because it is extremely strong and often you need to do something in th US to further yourself in your home country....

I challenge you to go to India and try to complete post grad training. You can't speak the language, dont understand the culture, and at the end of med school the students are on a higher level. You would crash and burn. I have respect FMGs.

And wait ..... wait for it:

I am not an FMG or an IMG.

 

[TransFatsRgood]

Just want to make a clarification....

FMG are foreign medical grads, basically students studying in medical schools in their own countries.

IMGs- ppl graduating from medical schools outside their countries.

Now, Medical school in the US often confers no better education than an FMG in his/her own country. But residency in the US seems to train ppl better than postgrad programs internationally. This is mainly because of the attitude to teaching and resident autonomy rather than the US being the only place to practice strong medicine.

Students from medical schools in London, or the All India Institute of Medical Sciences in Delhi (AIIMS) would run circles around most US grads. because:
1) They are the best of the best in a country of 1.3 billion ppl. where everyone would like to do medicine if they could.

2) They study their asses off because medical school is tougher (BY a mile).

3) They have much more independence in hospitals and have access to a broader patient population and get to see pathology that you would never see in the US.

Then they come to the US to do post-grad training because it is extremely strong and often you need to do something in th US to further yourself in your home country....

I challenge you to go to India and try to complete post grad training. You can't speak the language, dont understand the culture, and at the end of med school the students are on a higher level. You would crash and burn. I have respect FMGs.

And wait ..... wait for it:

I am not an FMG or an IMG.

Right, you are not an FMG or an IMG--nor are you any kind of graduate--judging from your poor articulation:

"Medical school in the US often confers no better education than a..."

Chandy, we all agree with and recognize the superiority of India in medical training. Myself and the majority of US grads are only doing residencies here in the U.S. because we could not get into those FMG programs....

 

[TransFatsRgood]

Although all FMG's are IMG's; I prefer to use the term "FMG". It just has a certain derogatory feel to it: It sounds like it might stand for F@#$ Medical Grad.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Although all FMG's are IMG's; I prefer to use the term "FMG". It just has a certain derogatory feel to it: It sounds like it might stand for F@#$ Medical Grad.

FMG or IMG...the letters at the end of your name are the same. (i.e. M.D.)

 

[Chandy]

Right, you are not an FMG or an IMG--nor are you any kind of graduate--judging from your poor articulation:

"Medical school in the US often confers no better education than a..."

Chandy, we all agree with and recognize the superiority of India in medical training. Myself and the majority of US grads are only doing residencies here in the U.S. because we could not get into those FMG programs....

obviously you missed my point. med schools are no different but post grad training is. thats why ppl come to train in the US.

 

[TransFatsRgood]

obviously you missed my point. med schools are no different but post grad training is. thats why ppl come to train in the US.

You know; you are right. Obviously you are the authority on this matter....

Don't forget you just recently posted this question on the OB boards:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=287428


how does a pregnancy test work? i know it tests for b-hCG in the urine but HOw does it detect it and show a positive result?





Too bad they didn't make an ELISA test to detect ignorance. Until then it is bliss.

 

[Chandy]

Dont think i understand the point of your last post. I was trying to explain what I had said previously because I thought you misinterpreted it....

And in response you searched for previous posts I made and commented on a post made in Feb of 2006 (1 year ago), and claimed that I'm ignorant.

Ok, I must be ignorant because I didn't know that pregnancy tests contain a antibody that binds hCG. Good one.

TransfatRgood 1 Chandy 0.

Grow up. And then try to keep your posts constructive and on topic.

 

[TransFatsRgood]

Exactly, the point being that maybe you are not qualified to be making the matter-of-fact statements about medical schools, being, that you are not even in medical school.

You come in here spouting off abbreviations and asinine comments under the pretense that you are a resident or otherwise. Go back to the undergrad section and spill your advice there where you belong

 

[TransFatsRgood]

Dont think i understand the point of your last post. I was trying to explain what I had said previously because I thought you misinterpreted it....

And in response you searched for previous posts I made and commented on a post made in Feb of 2006 (1 year ago), and claimed that I'm ignorant.

Ok, I must be ignorant because I didn't know that pregnancy tests contain a antibody that binds hCG. Good one.

TransfatRgood 1 Chandy 0.

Grow up. And then try to keep your posts constructive and on topic.

It is not so much that you did not know how a B-HCG test works as that you were dumb enough to post a question about it instead of taking some initiative to find out yourself. Luckily someone else "googled it" for you...

 

[TransFatsRgood]

Dont think i understand the point of your last post. I was trying to explain what I had said previously because I thought you misinterpreted it....

And in response you searched for previous posts I made and commented on a post made in Feb of 2006 (1 year ago), and claimed that I'm ignorant.

Ok, I must be ignorant because I didn't know that pregnancy tests contain a antibody that binds hCG. Good one.

TransfatRgood 1 Chandy 0.

Grow up. And then try to keep your posts constructive and on topic.

Damn, you still don't know. No the test isn't just an antibody that binds HCG, it is an immunoglobulin usually produced by a rabbit that is linked to a fluorescent enzyme that when bound induces a conformational change that changes color..hence the line appears.

That is the kind of things they teach you in medical school. If you are currently in medical school here in the U.S., than you are right...those FMG's schools are superior, but that only came around in the past year.

Interestingly, I may be wrong here. In review of the original post with people like MuppetHorn, Chandy, Benassi and especially H_Caulfield;
U.S. trainees (or hopefuls such as Chandy) are pretty ignorant.

 

[bulletproof]

...

 

[fang]

If the OP is even reading this anymore, here are some tips:

1. IM in rural Kansas may be easy to match into, but IM at Hopkins and similar programs is just as competative as matching into ortho or derm-- you will not be "slumming" at these places.

2. Cardiology is difficult to get into- you can't be an average joe IM resident at a solid community program and have a great chance of success.

3. If you're using level of compeativeness as a guide in career choice, you might be seriously disappointed later down the road.

 

[JCYL]

The OP's posts were shockingly naive if not idiotic. Don't forget that many IMGs/FMGs are foreign nationals who were top students in their respective home countries.

 

[JCYL]

i'll only speak for indian and pakistani IMGs since i know plenty of them, am indian and know the indian medical entrance examination/graduation process from having family members go through it. i am a US grad just for clarification.

the indian IMGs who got into med school on their own merit (not by "donating" money to the med schools) are EXTREMELY smart. although a pretty ridiculous thing to do, but most indian children are brought up thinking that they need to be either a doctor, lawyer or engineer (i'll refer you to a thread under "india" on SDN where basically a kid was told by his parents that his options were and i quote here "MD -> DO -> Dentist -> PA -> PT/OT -> Death". the competition is ridiculously tough because everyone and their mother wants to excel in school and school only.

anyway, my point being that its VERY competitive to get into medical school in india...people have committed suicide if they didn't make it to the top 1% of their class.

soooo, my second point is that taking the USMLEs is practically a joke for most indian IMGs. they take the training to be on the safe side and learn the US system...since there are different methods of teaching between the US and India (which, btw, does not equte to a lesser education in either country). most tests in india are "essay format" or oral exams, not MCQs. i'm sure someone going from here to india would want to brush up on their biochemistry for their step 1 equivalent test if it had been 4 years since first year of med school. from what i was told, i've heard that the indian exams are super tough and that the UK PLAB (??spelling) test is the toughest. if there are some indian IMGs here, please add your input.

i think its fine that the US protects its graduates and gives them preference. but i definitely think that (at least) indian/pakistani IMGs get a bad rep and bias just because they are IMGs. i think an indian IMG could be just as good if not better than an US grad when it comes to medicine.

Likewise, the HKMLE (for medical graduates intending to practise in Hong Kong) is FAR HARDER than the USMLE.

 

[snips44]

I'd just like to say that I'm an IMG, and I'm probably the greatest clinician that ever lived. Just to put things into perspective for the OP.

 

[Auscultate]

I'd just like to say that I'm an IMG, and I'm probably the greatest clinician that ever lived. Just to put things into perspective for the OP.

To put things in the most perspective, I'm also a 4th year med student and I am definitely the best clinician in the history of medicine!

 

[lazyanteater]

Everything true above except.....the UK based entrance exams (aka PLABs) are much easier than the USMLE exams. The PLABS are actually much more like the COMPLEX exams the osteopaths take here.

Wow buddy, you seem to really have it out for us D.Os Ive seen on a number of threads you have made slightly disparaging comments towards osteopathic physicians. First off its COMLEX and from what I have heard it is no easier than the usmle nor harder. It is written in a different manner. And you of course as an IMG have not even taken it, so how are you able to even compare the two? I realize that this is utterly out of the context of the discussion at hand but just realize that this "I'm better" attitude is not just found among those who went to "top tier medical schools" truly sad. On quite a few threads it would seem that Mr. Patel here believes that his education provided him with something more than what I would receive at an osteopathic school. hell if it makes ya feel better my fellow brown buddy then go ahead.

 

[snips44]

I love it when medical students, of all people, act like where you go to school actually matters. I know kids from India (I'm not from India btw, just to be clear) that could probably run circles around the top Harvard kids. I did a research elective at a major UC health center in Southern California this summer and the professor I worked with said that the American kids typically get PWNED by the IMGs due to the fact that they basically have every basic science book memorized, and their clinical skills are 10 billion times better. That being said, I am not one of those IMGs, so the top kids at Harvard are still probably way better than me. Although I can most likely diagnose a patient within 4 seconds of taking their history, whereas Mr. 40k-per-year has to run every diagnostic in the lab to get his DDx. So congrats, OP, on restraining yourself to no social-life for 14 consecutive years, you get to hang an Ivy League diploma on your office wall. I'll still probably end up being a better doctor. Egomaniacs from Ivy League: Start your self-glorification and auto-fellatio.......now. (to all the humble, smart kids that go to baller-status schools, this post is not directed to you.)

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Wow buddy, you seem to really have it out for us D.Os Ive seen on a number of threads you have made slightly disparaging comments towards osteopathic physicians. First off its COMLEX and from what I have heard it is no easier than the usmle nor harder. It is written in a different manner. And you of course as an IMG have not even taken it, so how are you able to even compare the two? I realize that this is utterly out of the context of the discussion at hand but just realize that this "I'm better" attitude is not just found among those who went to "top tier medical schools" truly sad. On quite a few threads it would seem that Mr. Patel here believes that his education provided him with something more than what I would receive at an osteopathic school. hell if it makes ya feel better my fellow brown buddy then go ahead.

Sorry buddy...nothing against you personally....

But during my rotations...I just hated to see some snobby DO students...act like they went to Harvard....maybe that's why I have such an angry attitude.
(btw...the DO girls are the hottest!!!!! no doubts about that)

Most of them were just fine..and humble.....and if you know me in real life.....i dont have the "i'm better" attitude....rather....i am very down to earth and humble.

As far as COMPLEX and PLAB....I shouldnt compare it....but I know both tests have a lot of questions on mere recall of info...rather than thinking of a 3 step process like the USMLEs do...thats all......

 

[TransFatsRgood]

I love it when medical students, of all people, act like where you go to school actually matters. I know kids from India (I'm not from India btw, just to be clear) that could probably run circles around the top Harvard kids. I did a research elective at a major UC health center in Southern California this summer and the professor I worked with said that the American kids typically get PWNED by the IMGs due to the fact that they basically have every basic science book memorized, and their clinical skills are 10 billion times better. That being said, I am not one of those IMGs, so the top kids at Harvard are still probably way better than me. Although I can most likely diagnose a patient within 4 seconds of taking their history, whereas Mr. 40k-per-year has to run every diagnostic in the lab to get his DDx. So congrats, OP, on restraining yourself to no social-life for 14 consecutive years, you get to hang an Ivy League diploma on your office wall. I'll still probably end up being a better doctor. Egomaniacs from Ivy League: Start your self-glorification and auto-fellatio.......now. (to all the humble, smart kids that go to baller-status schools, this post is not directed to you.)

Man, you should stop posting now before you lose any more self-respect. This has got to be one of the most ignorant threads (and post) ever