Flinders or ANU?

[Unch]

Here we go...

I've been browsing this forum for months and posted once but have only been peering in. Yesterday I got an interview with Flinders (nine days notice to get to Calgary) and suddenly now have to prepare for choices.

Also applied to ANU (independently while Flinders was through ACER) and feel confident I'll get an interview there as well. Reluctant with the hubris of assuming even one acceptance but think I need to plan as if I may have a choice. Expecting that Flinders would accept me before ANU (perhaps even before an ANU interview). Which school to choose?

I'm forty years old, have two young children and a supportive wife who is as delighted as i am to live in Australia for four years. We have every intention of returning to Canada (BC) and a career in family medicine, possibly in rural BC where we live now. Assuming I want to post into a residency to support such a goal, what's a better bet for an Oz school?

Now at risk of flaming someone, I get the approximate impression that ANU has a better "international" reputation than Flinders or a better average ranking etc. But of course ANU's full program is brand new and untested/unknown. And how much are NAmerican residencies going to care about which Oz school versus Oz school in general (I am US/Canadaian dual citizen and will consider res options in both USA and Canada). And, yes, I am aware of the appeals of Adelaide over Canberra.

Anyway, "what would you (all) choose"?

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[pitman]

I've never been to Canberra, but assuming I didn't fall in love with that city, I'd choose Flinders -- don't underestimate the value of extra years of accommodating n americans + infrastructure for (and history of) getting back. Not that I think ANU wouldn't be a solid choice, or consider such hx as paramount, but unless you'd enjoy initiating support programmes and effecting school policy as a pioneer (kimberli cox was active at flinders doing this years ago, from what i heard when interviewing there ), you might be overly distracted by such matters while at ANU. I would think the actual school's int'l rep would be far less important than your ability to do as well as possible on USMLE (and Flinders also has its own good rep w/ med due to the grads it's already sent back)

Keep in mind I care very little about relative prestige and ended up going to UQ primarily b.c. of the environment.

-pitman

 

[misosoup]

I would recommend Flinders because it has a very well-established program as compared to ANU.

 

[DrIng]

Having lived in both Canberra and Adelaide you can't assume that you'd like Adelaide over Canberra. Adelaide has the beach and gets much hotter in summer while Canberra has a lot of bushland and gets colder in winter. Personally, I'd actually say that as a city Canberra is better if you've got young children, it's just got a safer more relaxed atmosphere. That said there will probably be more employment opportunities for your wife in Adelaide. Canberra is a bit more 'boring' a bit more uniformly middle class... And everywhere is 30 minutes from anywhere. Canberra also has the advantage of being 4 hours to Sydney, 3 hours to the beach and 4 hours to the snow.
ANU probably does have a better international reputation as a whole university -primarily post-graduate research based- but as a medical school you'd be choosing a school with an established (good) reputation - Flinders- over a school without a medical school reputation at all.
Hope this helps...

 

[Unch]

Thanks, all, for replies to my Flinders ANU question.

DrIng- you mentioned relative safety. Did you find Adelaide unsafe? We're city people from youth (turned rural) but don't want any place too edgy.

I have a good friend at ANU so I have more anecdotal info on that option. I know much less about Adelaide. Pitman, I know you considered Flinders. Anyone else who attended Flinders?

 

[markdc]

Thanks, all, for replies to my Flinders ANU question.

DrIng- you mentioned relative safety. Did you find Adelaide unsafe? We're city people from youth (turned rural) but don't want any place too edgy.

I have a good friend at ANU so I have more anecdotal info on that option. I know much less about Adelaide. Pitman, I know you considered Flinders. Anyone else who attended Flinders?

Well I am pretty much with Pitman for the reasons of choosing UQ over Flinders (largely the fact that it is warmer, has great beaches etc). Lifestyle is important since you will be here for at least 4 years.

Flinders did seem to be much more on the ball than UQ in terms of how it deals with international students. (We are trying to get UQ caught up to Flinders with this regard but it could take a while). Things like connections with schools overeas, good relations with international students, track record of students getting spots back home, and other similar details are a huge headache if they don't exist at the school you attend. You don't want to be fighting for such items when they should have been part of the university's QOS and business plan regarding international students from the start... So if these things seem like a hassle at an established university like UQ I am not sure if I would want to attend one that is just beginning. However that being said, the administration at ANU could be composed of forward thinking individuals who planned properly for internationals...

As for danger? Adelaide? I've heard that it is pretty tame there. I was accepted to Flinders. My stepfather spent a few months there and a few years in Queensland and said I would have found it quite boring at Adelaide. I don't think any Australian city would be as dangerous as your typical American or even Canadian cities with the exception of Sydney.

 

[DrIng]

Anywhere in AUstralia is going to have low crime figures compared with the average US city, but Canberra just feels that little bit 'safer' and more family friendly.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not having lived in Canberra I can't comment on its safety, but as noted above, pretty much all Aussie cities are safer than the US, or urban Canada. I much prefer the environment of Adelaide - think its a prettier city than Canberra and as a single female there never felt in danger, even walking around at night. That said, there are some places (like Rundle mall downtown) where you should be cautious but you probably won't go there anyway.

 

[Unch]

Thank you all.

Definitely leaning heavily toward Flinders now. Fingers crossed for interview on Friday.

 

[Unch]

Since a few of you are browsing here, one more quick Q of Kimberli, Pitman and others.

I'll go to Flinders gladly and have a great time and learn a ton but I still wonder about the residency thing. Just anecdotally, what were your (and those around you) experiences in terms of places versus applicants and all the hype? Me- dual citizen Canada/US, interested in FM, experience and willingness to go rural (within reason!).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Since a few of you are browsing here, one more quick Q of Kimberli, Pitman and others.

I'll go to Flinders gladly and have a great time and learn a ton but I still wonder about the residency thing. Just anecdotally, what were your (and those around you) experiences in terms of places versus applicants and all the hype? Me- dual citizen Canada/US, interested in FM, experience and willingness to go rural (within reason!).

It would be difficult for me to surmise any difficulty or lack thereof on the part of the Canucks going abroad for medical training. My class had 3 Canadians - 1 chose to stay on in Oz, another is doing his Derm residency in the US and I've lost track of the 3rd. I'm not sure whether the one staying here had trouble because of his citizenship or more likely, that he wanted to do Derm (difficult match for anyone).

I didn't experience any trouble setting up clinical rotations during my final year, but then again I'm a bit more organized than apparently your average person who goes to school abroad and a bit more tolerant of the laissez faire attitude of the Aussies...key is to start early.

I also got a fair number of interviews and a fair number of places didn't interview me but I assumed that was a much due to my mediocre Step 1 score rather than my school of origin. I'm not sure where the impression of ANU being more recognized internationally comes from - I'd never heard of it before I started medical school but I'd heard of Flinders (from its basic science research). At any rate, that doesn't matter because its unlikely you'll find many in the US or Canada that have much experience with either school and they will simply lump you into one category regardless of the school you choose. At this point you can't worry about the perceived or presumed stigma - it will either be there or it won't, and if it is, you can't do much about it. there are plenty of places that are open to IMGs, regardless of school of origin or citizenship, as long as you are realistic about this, and make your plans accordingly you shouldn't have much trouble - all else being equal (ie, board scores, grades, etc).

 

[AusMeds]

unch, good luck on your interview!! I was in the same situation as you a couple of years back - only 1 child not 2. Anyway, I'm at Flinders now and can tell you that Adelaide is a great location for a family. Single students may find a little less nightlife compared to Sydney or Melbourne, but there's still enough in Adelaide to satisfy most - kind of like living in London or Kingston vs. Toronto.

The number of Canadians at Flinders has also grown significantly - of 30 international students per year, about 15-20 every year now come from Canada - so there is a lot of peer support from fellow Canadians in navigating our pathway back to Canada.

I must also say that the staff at Flinders are fabulous. They really go out of their way to make us international students feel at home and they have a great program that is highly respected. In fact they have been marketing their curiculum and thus far have sold it to two schools - St. George's in the UK and Griffith University in Australia - so that says they must be doing something right for others to be purchasing their curiculum and adopting their methods.

 

[Unch]

Thanks AusMeds and Kimberli,

All's over but the waiting as I'm pretty set now on Flinders. I can't imagine having to make this decision (which is, as yet, hypothetical) without the support of this forum and kind people like you who take the time to support those of us just starting out. Needless to say, the decision process is a little more complicated for me with my age, full-time job/career, wife, mother-in-law, 160 acre ranch with equipment and animals to liquidate. Feeling pretty good about my chances, though, since I might just interview okay after teaching high school (read talking for a living) for eight years and a few other exotic life experiences along the way. And I just nailed 86% (today) as a final mark in a molecular cell bio course I'm taking as a geriatric upgrade to show I still have a brain. Okay, rant's over-- I'm just a little excited here!

Thanks all.

 

[pitman]

Unch, I'd recommend bringing your transcript along to the interview and casually showing it to Tony, "just in case you need assurance I can still hack it..."

 

[Unch]

Good tip Pitman,

I'll be taking a whole sheaf of papers with me, I think... including my freshly-minted mark in a molecular cell bio course (86%) that i took to show i'm still sharp. Also my peer-reviewed publications and other such essentials.

Thanks for your ideas.

 

[DrIng]

It' really good to see this post for me, it's a reminder of how hard we work to get into medical school. Try to remember after your accepted how hard you worked just to get in because when you're studying an focussing on thext goal of getting good grades or a good residency or just seeing a million patients you can loose sight of what you've already achieved...

 

[Unch]

I couldn't agree more, Dring. I'd been 12 years out from academia when i took this on-- preparing for the MCAT (with Physics that I took 19 years ago), taking courses, working full-time and playing with my newborn. Some school has got to realize this, right?