**FEMALES in ORTHO**

[2BAnIDrNoMore]

Any females in ortho? Anyone have female friends in Ortho? If so (I know you're out there somewhere), what have you observed and if you're a female, how is it? I know it's a male-dominated field; how are you treated? I also know there is a stigma towards ortho (male or female) to begin with...why so harsh? I was considering EM but as a former college athlete, I figured I'd get more joy/satisfaction out of helping my fellow athletes (yes, I know athlete's aren't the only ones who use ortho's) and do ortho sports med! There aren't very many female sports med ortho's but an abundance of female athletes; time to add my name to the list.

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[OHMAN0125]

Any females in ortho? Anyone have female friends in Ortho? If so (I know you're out there somewhere), what have you observed and if you're a female, how is it? I know it's a male-dominated field; how are you treated? I also know there is a stigma towards ortho (male or female) to begin with...why so harsh? I was considering EM but as a former college athlete, I figured I'd get more joy/satisfaction out of helping my fellow athletes (yes, I know athlete's aren't the only ones who use ortho's) and do ortho sports med! There aren't very many female sports med ortho's but an abundance of female athletes; time to add my name to the list.

*Yes, that's me in my avatar...good rip huh!?

Stigma towards ortho? There is none. I think the only problem with females in any type of surgery is that if you want to have children at that age then you have to be the one that's pregnant. Needless to say, it would be a difficult but not impossible time.

 

[2BAnIDrNoMore]

Thank you for your response; soooo many views but no responses. Well, I'm glad to hear that's the only potential problem. Maybe I've been addicted to google.com while researching ortho and those were just frantic rantings of the disturbed.

Stigma towards ortho? There is none. I think the only problem with females in any type of surgery is that if you want to have children at that age then you have to be the one that's pregnant. Needless to say, it would be a difficult but not impossible time.

 

[cptnplanetdc]

I'm a female in ortho and I don't feel any different than everyone else. I don't think I'm treated differently and I don't think I act differently. I think choosing a program that have had at least one female resident is a good move so you don't have to be the first but other than that I didn't make it an issue when I was applying. I agree with the previous post about having to be the one who gets pregnant making things tough though...

 

[SoulRFlare]

Go into neurosurgery instead. It's cooler

 

[Ashers]

I'm a female M3 who's planning on going into ortho. I just finished my ortho rotation with the trauma service at my school, half the month, all 3 residents were guys, then in the middle of the month, the teams switched, and the PGY-2 was female. Both teams were equally fun and good teachers.

It has been the most fun rotation I've had. Everyone was cool and encouraging of me wanting to do ortho.

 

[pagemmapants]

I'm a female M3 who's planning on going into ortho. I just finished my ortho rotation with the trauma service at my school, half the month, all 3 residents were guys, then in the middle of the month, the teams switched, and the PGY-2 was female. Both teams were equally fun and good teachers.

It has been the most fun rotation I've had. Everyone was cool and encouraging of me wanting to do ortho.

I'm a female M2 who just finished her surgery clerkship & I'm torn between PRS and Ortho having done 2 weeks on both (hand?). Here we've got 4 current female ortho residents (10% of the program) and 2 female attendings (one who does a lot of knees and is extremely well-respected, one who is a peds orthopod who does a lot of scolies). I've met both attendings, worked closely with one of them on a number of cases, and have met 3 out of 4 lady residents. ALL of them were extremely encouraging - the peds attending has talked to me some about the difficulties of the interview trail as a female, some of the "bonding" crap you might feel uncomfortable with, trying to balance being too much of a "girly girl" versus "trying too hard", etc. All of the residents sort of hinted that you need to be comfortable with living in a "frathouse" environment. . . but since I'm the type of girl that has always been a guys' girl (varsity letterman, EMS) I think it would be a fairly natural transition, although I'll have to bone up on my football knowledge a little (having only recently learned that Eli is related to Peyton ).

Notably, the ortho attending I spoke with seemed VERY happy with her life as a whole. This is in STARK contrast to the female attendings I met in general surgery - one in vascular and one in transplant. They are good friends and are both extremely successful in their careers, and the one who was hosting had an absolutely gorgeous house. . . but they both had a lot to say about not being able to have children when they wanted, the stresses of being a female in a general surgery residency, still working >70h/week at the age of 40+, etc etc. To be honest, they were encouraging about the fact that you CAN do it, but I'm not convinced that they were really happy about their lives outside of their careers. Then again, that's just a conjecture, and it may be partially due to the fact that they went through their training over a decade ago. . . but from what I experienced the female general residents here (and the males, come to think of it) were for the most part pretty miserable. The interns still had that excited glow (it being only November at the time) but anyone beyond that seemed much less happy, much less content with their lives, and just. . . cranky all the time (with the notable exception of those that were in the midst of their research years). I don't want to be cranky for 5-7 years of my life, thanks. I'd rather be holding a drill and listening to green day. (see Ortho=Carpentry thread)

 

[2BAnIDrNoMore]

Thanks for all of the responses; it's been really helpful.

Did someone say GREEN DAY!!?? No more debating...Ortho it is! Riiiggghhttt lol. Ortho sounds like it would be fun/interesting; I'll continue looking into it. I've heard of the "frathouse" environment but I'm pretty sure I can hang. Four years of team trips and hanging out (sometimes "dealing" lol) w/ male athletes is kind of like a frathouse w/ a kick. Their "frat" mentality is taken to the next level due to their frequent appearances on TV which leads them to being "chick magnets" Gotta love em'!

Hand me my drill...

I'm a female M2 who just finished her surgery clerkship & I'm torn between PRS and Ortho having done 2 weeks on both (hand?). Here we've got 4 current female ortho residents (10% of the program) and 2 female attendings (one who does a lot of knees and is extremely well-respected, one who is a peds orthopod who does a lot of scolies). I've met both attendings, worked closely with one of them on a number of cases, and have met 3 out of 4 lady residents. ALL of them were extremely encouraging - the peds attending has talked to me some about the difficulties of the interview trail as a female, some of the "bonding" crap you might feel uncomfortable with, trying to balance being too much of a "girly girl" versus "trying too hard", etc. All of the residents sort of hinted that you need to be comfortable with living in a "frathouse" environment. . . but since I'm the type of girl that has always been a guys' girl (varsity letterman, EMS) I think it would be a fairly natural transition, although I'll have to bone up on my football knowledge a little (having only recently learned that Eli is related to Peyton ).

Notably, the ortho attending I spoke with seemed VERY happy with her life as a whole. This is in STARK contrast to the female attendings I met in general surgery - one in vascular and one in transplant. They are good friends and are both extremely successful in their careers, and the one who was hosting had an absolutely gorgeous house. . . but they both had a lot to say about not being able to have children when they wanted, the stresses of being a female in a general surgery residency, still working >70h/week at the age of 40+, etc etc. To be honest, they were encouraging about the fact that you CAN do it, but I'm not convinced that they were really happy about their lives outside of their careers. Then again, that's just a conjecture, and it may be partially due to the fact that they went through their training over a decade ago. . . but from what I experienced the female general residents here (and the males, come to think of it) were for the most part pretty miserable. The interns still had that excited glow (it being only November at the time) but anyone beyond that seemed much less happy, much less content with their lives, and just. . . cranky all the time (with the notable exception of those that were in the midst of their research years). I don't want to be cranky for 5-7 years of my life, thanks. I'd rather be holding a drill and listening to green day. (see Ortho=Carpentry thread)

 

[HPMMajor]

the ortho who just reconstructed my ankle was a female and a DO

 

[Ashers]

Thanks for all of the responses; it's been really helpful.

Did someone say GREEN DAY!!?? No more debating...Ortho it is! Riiiggghhttt lol. Ortho sounds like it would be fun/interesting; I'll continue looking into it. I've heard of the "frathouse" environment but I'm pretty sure I can hang. Four years of team trips and hanging out (sometimes "dealing" lol) w/ male athletes is kind of like a frathouse w/ a kick. Their "frat" mentality is taken to the next level due to their frequent appearances on TV which leads them to being "chick magnets" Gotta love em'!

Hand me my drill...

It's only Green Day because of the cartoon stereotyping the specialties. Real ortho is Spinal Tap! When I told one of my residents last month that I watched "This is Spinal Tap" over the weekend, he was like "Spinal Tap, now that's ortho!" Then he started singing songs and quoting from it. Good times. That being said, my dad listens to the Beatles in the OR, as long as he can convince the DJ, er, anesthesiologist to put them on.

I enjoy the male dominated atmosphere. I've always hung out with guys more, and I have 2 brothers that I share a sense of humor with.

I also love the powertools. My dad taught me well how to fix things. He may be a glorified carpenter, but his dad was a real carpenter.

 

[pagemmapants]

vvvvrrrrOOOOOOOOOMmmmmmmmmmrrrmrmrmrmrrrr....

 

[OHMAN0125]

It's only Green Day because of the cartoon stereotyping the specialties. Real ortho is Spinal Tap! When I told one of my residents last month that I watched "This is Spinal Tap" over the weekend, he was like "Spinal Tap, now that's ortho!" Then he started singing songs and quoting from it. Good times. That being said, my dad listens to the Beatles in the OR, as long as he can convince the DJ, er, anesthesiologist to put them on.

I enjoy the male dominated atmosphere. I've always hung out with guys more, and I have 2 brothers that I share a sense of humor with.

I also love the powertools. My dad taught me well how to fix things. He may be a glorified carpenter, but his dad was a real carpenter.

Wow. Can you generalize the field more? Lol

 

[Tired]

the ortho who just reconstructed my ankle was a female and a DO

Did you schedule the revision up front, or are you going to wait?

kidding, kidding

 

[laregla]

Did you schedule the revision up front, or are you going to wait?

I want to marry that comment

 

[2BAnIDrNoMore]

Did you schedule the revision up front, or are you going to wait?

kidding, kidding

You...

I want to marry that comment

...and you should be ashamed of yourselves

(Secret: I chuckled...just a tad. I know I shouldn't have chuckled so I should be ashamed also )

 

[madtowngirl]

The interns still had that excited glow (it being only November at the time)

I don't think I ever have an "excited glow" . . . at least not most days.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

As an aside, in my (quite academic) institution's program the ortho residency is fully 50% female. The last two classes have been 66%. It's not for me, but we female med students we certainly not made to feel like excess baggage on the rotation-- we were all viewed as potential recruits.

 

[StarboardMD]

I am so glad to see this thread! I'm a 2nd year who has been in love with ortho for about four years now, but I'm actively trying to talk myself out of ortho for 2 reasons: 1.) I need a stellar board score and 2.) I want to be able to see my husband and kids every once in a while. I guess you guys can't help a lot with #1, but would it be possible for any current residents or attendings to comment on lifestyle with a family? And is it totally unheard of to work, say 4 days a week, or 5 days with limited hours a couple days a week in order to see one's offspring while they're awake? Also, as far as the baby thing goes, when's the best time to schedule a pregnancy?

 

[MacBook]

Stigma towards ortho? There is none. I think the only problem with females in any type of surgery is that if you want to have children at that age then you have to be the one that's pregnant. Needless to say, it would be a difficult but not impossible time.

I would also think it might be a strength issue? you are dealing with major fractures and dislocations (hip is one I'm thinking of). I would imagine it would be a lot more difficult

 

[indo]

I would also think it might be a strength issue? you are dealing with major fractures and dislocations (hip is one I'm thinking of). I would imagine it would be a lot more difficult

There will always be a meathead around...med students, attendings, residents...the anesthesiogists.

 

[MacBook]

There will always be a meathead around...med students, attendings, residents...the anesthesiogists.

ah, fair enough!

 

[dobonedoc]

Ortho is more about style and technique, than strength and force. I've known enough small women who are ortho residents who can do it all. I've seen a petite "girl" who knew her stuff reduce hips better than the former male college athlete.

Be willing to do the work and know your stuff and you'll do fine.

 

[DrDre311]

Hmmm...thread topic contains the words "female" and "ortho"--must...resist...urge...to make...jokes...involving..."bone"...and...someone's...mom...

 

[rom3o]

I think the OP should worry about trying to get into med school first

 

[Carpenter]

Females in Ortho


NOT NEEDED

Carpenter

 

[fbf]

I personally know two person. One, she got pregnant during residency and her husband is a successful cardio surgeon, so eventually she quitted her job to become a housewife.
The other one, she couldn't handle the stress and being the only female. She was fired one year later. She is now doing General surgery.

 

[pagemmapants]

ugh.

One, I don't know anybody who has "quitted" a job. Two, it's not "cardio" surgery, it's "cardiac". Three, we have 4 women in our orthopedics residency program, 1 female hand fellow, and 2 women orthopedic attendings. They are all well respected and carry more than their own weight in the department. And this is at the 6th best orthopedics department in the country.

So y'all can shut your faces.

 

[DrDre311]

I personally know two person. One, she got pregnant during residency and her husband is a successful cardio surgeon, so eventually she quitted her job to become a housewife.
The other one, she couldn't handle the stress and being the only female. She was fired one year later. She is now doing General surgery.

In my head I heard this post in a very thick Kazakh accent.

fbf's next comment: "Do you feel women should be educate? Is it not problem that woman have brain the size of squirrel?"

 

[gdk]

does anybody know where/how to research what # residents are male/female? i've heard people talk about more "female friendly" programs but i'm not sure how they find out about them other than word of mouth or going to specific programs and clicking on the "meet the current residents" tab.
in my class there are 10 of us (out of ~175 ish) that want to do ortho, 7 dudes and 3 girls last time i counted.

 

[ProAthleteMD]

BUMP

Anymore women in ortho-land? Fill us in...

 

[DrKitty]

BUMP

Anymore women in ortho-land? Fill us in...

I am a 3rd year female med student, just finished my ortho week of surgery rotation. There are currently at least 3 women residents in our ortho program and at least 2 attendings that I have met. My team consisted of all men, and I never felt like I did not fit in. I was very surprised to learn that I actually liked ortho. Personally, I have never been into sports and have not been exposed much to ortho and frankly was never interested. But I had such an amazing time with my team and learned so much, that I now feel confused as to whether I should explore my ortho interest further.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

does anybody know where/how to research what # residents are male/female? i've heard people talk about more "female friendly" programs but i'm not sure how they find out about them other than word of mouth or going to specific programs and clicking on the "meet the current residents" tab.
in my class there are 10 of us (out of ~175 ish) that want to do ortho, 7 dudes and 3 girls last time i counted.

FREIDA posts these statistics.

[SIZE=-1]Total number of active residents/fellows[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]3,210[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Average number of residents/fellows[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]20.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Average percent female[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]11.4%[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Average percent international medical graduates[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]2.3%[/SIZE]

And as far as attendings go:

[SIZE=-1]Average percent female full-time physician faculty[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]7.2%

My medical school sends a great deal of students into ortho. In the last decade, 121 students have matched. 20 have been women, giving a percentage of 16.5% (slightly above the national average).

[/SIZE] Orthopedic Surgery, Columbia P&S
1/10 (1998)
2/15 (1999)
2/10 (2000)
2/13 (2001)
0/7 (2002)
2/10 (2003)
2/13 (2004)
3/10 (2005)
2/14 (2006)
2/10 (2007)
2/9 (2008)

You will NOT be the odd woman out should you choose to pursue it.



[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

 

[Ashers]

Quite fitting that this thread recently got bumped. I found this poster in the American Eagle terminal at O'Hare tonight on my way from 1 ortho externship to my home school's sub-I.

 

[Illuminatus]

lame...i don't see nursing schools going out of the way to recruit males or airlines having special incentives for male hosts.

 

[Ashers]

lame...i don't see nursing schools going out of the way to recruit males or airlines having special incentives for male hosts.

Actually, if you google "male nurses," you'll find a lot of things recruiting male nurses, including a school in Oregon's campaign: "Are you man enough to be a nurse?"

But that's beside the point. From what I've been told, there are some ortho programs that are actively seeking women and some that don't want women in their program. I'll avoid the latter, and apply to the neutral or actively seeking. The issue of women and minorities in orthopaedics is something that AAOS has addressed for a while now.

And, I so became interested in ortho because of a poster just like that one.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

Actually, if you google "male nurses," you'll find a lot of things recruiting male nurses, including a school in Oregon's campaign: "Are you man enough to be a nurse?"

But that's beside the point. From what I've been told, there are some ortho programs that are actively seeking women and some that don't want women in their program. I'll avoid the latter, and apply to the neutral or actively seeking. The issue of women and minorities in orthopaedics is something that AAOS has addressed for a while now.

And, I so became interested in ortho because of a poster just like that one.

Oh goody, more reverse discrimination to look forward to as I prepare to apply for residency (as if med school admissions wasn't enough) . Seriously, what ever happened to the most qualified candidate getting the position?

 

[Ashers]

Oh goody, more reverse discrimintion [sic] to look forward to as I prepare to apply for residency (as if med school admissions wasn't enough) . Seriously, what ever happened to the most qualified candidate getting the position?

And that's what most programs do. I've heard of a few that are actively seeking women, per residents on my last sub-I.

Trust me. I'm not going into the field because AAOS wants to increase their diversity, nor am I applying to only programs that want women. I did find the poster entertaining with the thread being active again, and my sister and I are both going into ortho.

Ortho's not the only specialty doing it. OB/gyn's trying to recruit more men.

 

[ddmo]

Considering that 99.99% of people that look at that poster don't really understand it's meaning, seems like a waste of money to put it up in a public place like an airport. Hell, many people don't even know what an orthopaedic surgeon is... no I don't put braces on teeth.

 

[ProAthleteMD]

Quite fitting that this thread recently got bumped. I found this poster in the American Eagle terminal at O'Hare tonight on my way from 1 ortho externship to my home school's sub-I.

Am I the only one who got the underlying meaning of this poster?? She's awfully similar to the:

lesbian poster
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...-1888549-1851867?ie=UTF8&n=11052681&s=kitchen

and the feminism poster
http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/feminist/images/WeCanDoIt-FeministPoster.jpg

So, all women who go into ortho are either lesbians (or tomboys), feminists or both Eh...Ortho...here I come!!

 

[Ashers]

Am I the only one who got the underlying meaning of this poster?? She's awfully similar to the:

lesbian poster
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...-1888549-1851867?ie=UTF8&n=11052681&s=kitchen

and the feminism poster
http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/feminist/images/WeCanDoIt-FeministPoster.jpg

So, all women who go into ortho are either lesbians (or tomboys), feminists or both Eh...Ortho...here I come!!

How about Rosie the Riveter?

Edit: Ok, so you linked Rosie the Riveter as a feminist thing. Not even going to go there with WWII history.

 

[ProAthleteMD]

How about Rosie the Riveter?

Edit: Ok, so you linked Rosie the Riveter as a feminist thing. Not even going to go there with WWII history.

She is the "feminist" icon (i.e. picture) so-to-speak. When people see that picture, they tend to think of "feminism", "girl power", etc. I get your point, though. Whatever...let's up the # of women in Ortho! That's all that matters...

 

[Illuminatus]

She is the "feminist" icon (i.e. picture) so-to-speak. When people see that picture, they tend to think of "feminism", "girl power", etc. I get your point, though. Whatever...let's up the # of women in Ortho! That's all that matters...

sure..everyone's welcome as far as they have worked their ass off to get the numbers, are ready to work 100-120 hours a week and most importantly be cool. for some reason, all the annoying/bitchy residents I had were more often women than guys..i should make a survey to see if that echoes everyone else's experience as well

 

[Ashers]

sure..everyone's welcome as far as they have worked their ass off to get the numbers, are ready to work 100-120 hours a week and most importantly be cool. for some reason, all the annoying/bitchy residents I had were more often women than guys..i should make a survey to see if that echoes everyone else's experience as well

Majority, yes, about 95%. I had a male resident who was worse than some of the OB/gyn residents and many female gen surg residents.

All the gal ortho residents and staff I've worked with (3) have been awesome.

 

[MsAmbitious]

Aside from the male dominance of the field. Was anyone worried about how old you would be after completing your residency. I have a friend who is 27 years old and just about to begin Medical School but she also wants to do Orthopaedic Surgery and is worried about her age in respect to other surgeons who may have finished Med School at 27 instead of started. I,myself, am thinking about doing a Masters degree program in Physiology before entering Medical school. Is age a big concern for most of you?

 

[basupran]

A very special woman I know is currently a prelim surgical resident applying for ortho (PGY 1 spot). She went to the caribbean, but has double 99's on step 1 and 2, and is a very hard working bright person. I really hope that she can get into a program.... any tips I can pass on?

 

[dragonfly99]

I think the 11% overall numbers in ortho say a lot. They show that yes you can do ortho if you are female and really want to do it, but also that it is still a male-dominate field. My experience in medical school was that some ortho attendings and residents were cool with women being interested in ortho, and some did not think it appropriate and some would blatantly say that (that we were unqualified or "I don't see why a woman would want to do that", etc.). I also had one resident who was always talking about what strippers and hookers he was going to hook up with when he went on vacation to Canada in a couple of weeks, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he was the person giving me a hard time and trying to find flaws in my work or things I had failed or forgotten to do (but couldn't really find because I was busting my a-- on my surgical rotation). Conversely, some of the macho-man ortho chief residents were awesome, and some attendings were cool, vs. others who were icy or just basically ignored me. I would say if you want to do ortho be careful about where you apply and realize that some places still do not want women, while others are open to having women. You don't want to land at a place where you aren't wanted, b/c residency is hard enough as it is.