Fellowship 2009

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TheWowEffect

TheWowEffect

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I am applying for a Sleep Medicine Fellowship in 2009. I am sure there are others on this board who are is the same boat. Let us all get together and share our experiences.

My plan is to apply to 5-10 programs mainly in the Midwest, and may be a couple in Pennsylvania. What are others doing?
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Well, it is going to be very competetive- so I heard!! I will be applying to atleast 20 programs, and wait and watch on how the interviews are going to turn up. I heard the average would be 2-3 interviews- that's it. If you don't mind me asking, what's your background? Any sleep experience? IMG/AMG?

I am an IMG with Psych/child psych background with a sleep paper on the horizon and sleep electives starting July.
 
shrnkmd said:
Well, it is going to be very competetive- so I heard!! I will be applying to atleast 20 programs, and wait and watch on how the interviews are going to turn up. I heard the average would be 2-3 interviews- that's it. If you don't mind me asking, what's your background? Any sleep experience? IMG/AMG?

I am an IMG with Psych/child psych background with a sleep paper on the horizon and sleep electives starting July.
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I thought about applying to more than 10 but may not do so due to geographic considerations. But it all depends on the initial reaction to my application. I don't have a huge experience but like you, I am trying to target a couple of programs by doing electives starting July and working on a paper. So, i guess we are in a similar boat. I think you child psych background will make you favorable to some programs like Cincinnati. I have a previous 3 non-sleep psychiatry papers.

It is definitely competitive but I have heard a couple people say that it may change slightly with the new CMS decisions. Let's see how it plays out.:luck:
 
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TheWowEffect said:
I thought about applying to more than 10 but may not do so due to geographic considerations. But it all depends on the initial reaction to my application. I don't have a huge experience but like you, I am trying to target a couple of programs by doing electives starting July and working on a paper. So, i guess we are in a similar boat. I think you child psych background will make you favorable to some programs like Cincinnati. I have a previous 3 non-sleep psychiatry papers.

It is definitely competitive but I have heard a couple people say that it may change slightly with the new CMS decisions. Let's see how it plays out.:luck:
Click to expand...

I went through the interview trail last year and my advise for you guys is to apply as early as possible and start asking for your LOR's now. I started sending application as early as June. When I went for interviews 4 or 5 months later I was told by some programs that they recieved applications as early as May. Also try to type your applications rather than hand write. You definately want to stand out amongst all those sloppy written ones.

I would not just limit my application to one geographic region since there are only 60 ACGME programs in the nation and about 110+ spots all together. Most programs I interviewed recieved 60+ applications for just 1 or 2 spots with few exceptions like Stanford, UTSouthwestern, etc. You can call each program individually to find out haw many applications they recieved last year and how many they invited for interviews, they are more than willing to tell you this info. Good luck
 
USIMGgrad said:
I went through the interview trail last year and my advise for you guys is to apply as early as possible and start asking for your LOR's now. I started sending application as early as June. When I went for interviews 4 or 5 months later I was told by some programs that they recieved applications as early as May. Also try to type your applications rather than hand write. You definately want to stand out amongst all those sloppy written ones.

I would not just limit my application to one geographic region since there are only 60 ACGME programs in the nation and about 110+ spots all together. Most programs I interviewed recieved 60+ applications for just 1 or 2 spots with few exceptions like Stanford, UTSouthwestern, etc. You can call each program individually to find out haw many applications they recieved last year and how many they invited for interviews, they are more than willing to tell you this info. Good luck
Click to expand...

please refer to this discussion link

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=481874
 
Hi USIMGgrad,

Thanks for your advice. Would it possible be for you to share your experience on the interview trail with us? How was it different at programs that offered you positions compared to the ones that didn't?
 
Thanks USIMG for posting your thoughts. Can you tell us which universities appeared to be receptive to applications and were more willing to interview? For eg I spoke with the coordinator at LSU, and she told me that they hardly interview more than 5 people- so i imagine the selection process is very very hardcore!!! Kinda makes me nervous!!

I am beginning to wonder whetehr i should apply for more programs. Would knowing current sleep fellows at a particular program be helpful? Kindly lets keep this thread going. Thanks:luck:
 
TheWowEffect said:
Hi USIMGgrad,

Thanks for your advice. Would it possible be for you to share your experience on the interview trail with us? How was it different at programs that offered you positions compared to the ones that didn't?
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Its hard to really judge during the interview which programs were interested or not because you are there with 5 or 6 other candidates and you are interviewing with 4 or 5 faculty. I think its individually based and maybe you get that warm feeling but its not a gaurantee. At the end you just have to wait for that phone call. Hope this helps.
 
shrnkmd said:
Thanks USIMG for posting your thoughts. Can you tell us which universities appeared to be receptive to applications and were more willing to interview? For eg I spoke with the coordinator at LSU, and she told me that they hardly interview more than 5 people- so i imagine the selection process is very very hardcore!!! Kinda makes me nervous!!

I am beginning to wonder whetehr i should apply for more programs. Would knowing current sleep fellows at a particular program be helpful? Kindly lets keep this thread going. Thanks:luck:
Click to expand...

From what I remember all the places I requested applications sent me one but not all granted me an interview. Places that granted me an interview are the following:

University of Vermont College of Medicine

University of Texas Southwestern Medical School

UPenn

University of Missouri

Winthrop-University Hosp

New Mexico Ctr for Sleep Medicine

Drexel Univ Coll of Med/Hahnemann

UMKC School of Medical Education

Vanderbilt Univ Med Ctr

Medical College of Wisconsin
 
USIMGgrad said:
University of Vermont College of Medicine

University of Texas Southwestern Medical School

UPenn

University of Missouri

Winthrop-University Hosp

New Mexico Ctr for Sleep Medicine

Drexel Univ Coll of Med/Hahnemann

UMKC School of Medical Education

Vanderbilt Univ Med Ctr

Medical College of Wisconsin
Click to expand...

Another good place to try is the Univ of Mississippi (in Jackson MS)
 
USIMGgrad said:
From what I remember all the places I requested applications sent me one but not all granted me an interview. Places that granted me an interview are the following:

University of Vermont College of Medicine

University of Texas Southwestern Medical School

UPenn

University of Missouri

Winthrop-University Hosp

New Mexico Ctr for Sleep Medicine

Drexel Univ Coll of Med/Hahnemann

UMKC School of Medical Education

Vanderbilt Univ Med Ctr

Medical College of Wisconsin
Click to expand...

Not to be nosy, but where else did you apply? Did those places not grant you an interview for a particular reason?
 
Hello everyone,
I know this thread got suddenly stalled. I am trying to get this started again.

How is the interview trail looking? In spite of applying to 22 programs so far, I have received just 1 interview (that too in a program which is asking for 3 year commitment towards a an academic career!!, which I am not willing to commit to after already being through 8 years of post medical school training- masters degree, residency, fellowship!!)

I wonder if the programs do not start interviewing until June/july/august of 2008 for July 2009 position. And of course, they will be on the look out for internal candiadtes too, trying to sway them towards the position. (USIMGgrad- since you have been through interviews lately, did most of your interviews come about july/august?)

Any comments from others?
 
shrnkmd said:
Hello everyone,
I know this thread got suddenly stalled. I am trying to get this started again.

How is the interview trail looking? In spite of applying to 22 programs so far, I have received just 1 interview (that too in a program which is asking for 3 year commitment towards a an academic career!!, which I am not willing to commit to after already being through 8 years of post medical school training- masters degree, residency, fellowship!!)

I wonder if the programs do not start interviewing until June/july/august of 2008 for July 2009 position. And of course, they will be on the look out for internal candiadtes too, trying to sway them towards the position. (USIMGgrad- since you have been through interviews lately, did most of your interviews come about july/august?)

Any comments from others?
Click to expand...

Looks like only you and I are applying this year:laugh:

Well, I have just started the process of applying. A few programs interview early (June, July) and others wait till August. I am thinking of applying to about 10 programs. I did apply to couple programs early. So far, one has contacted me and said that they will be interested in interviewing me but will do it after July.

I am sure there will be others who will grant you an interview if you have applied to 22 programs. Just to get an idea, what geographic area have you mainly applied to? I am applying to mostly midwest programs.
 
Well, there is no specific geographic place in particular; I am ready to relocate to any place!!

Midwest- Chicago (VVVV competetive)- Would rate competetion at 8-9/10
Others: Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Ohio - fairly competetive
DC - less competetive

South/Southeast: TN, AL, KY, LA, TX, FL - fairly competetive (would rate 6/10)

Northeast: PA, RI, MA, NY, CT - fiarly competetive , 6/10

West: I have not applied to any west programs
 
BrainWorks said:
Not to be nosy, but where else did you apply? Did those places not grant you an interview for a particular reason?
Click to expand...

Just got back from vacation..

I don't remember all but the few that pop's to mind are Rush, Mcgaw, Iowa, Yale, Norwalk, Duke...

I think most of these filled internally.
 
shrnkmd said:
Hello everyone,
I know this thread got suddenly stalled. I am trying to get this started again.

How is the interview trail looking? In spite of applying to 22 programs so far, I have received just 1 interview (that too in a program which is asking for 3 year commitment towards a an academic career!!, which I am not willing to commit to after already being through 8 years of post medical school training- masters degree, residency, fellowship!!)

I wonder if the programs do not start interviewing until June/july/august of 2008 for July 2009 position. And of course, they will be on the look out for internal candiadtes too, trying to sway them towards the position. (USIMGgrad- since you have been through interviews lately, did most of your interviews come about july/august?)

Any comments from others?
Click to expand...

I think my interview were mostly during late august to december.
 
Curious why no one has mentioned Mayo Clinic in their possible choices for application.
 
freudianslip said:
Curious why no one has mentioned Mayo Clinic in their possible choices for application.
Click to expand...

I am thinking of applying there but a curious thing is that their program starts on June 29, 2009. This is a major hurdle for current residents finishing their residencies on June 30, 2009. They expect you to be there on June 29th for the orientation. For once, a possible "conspiracy theory" cropped up in my mind how they might be trying to exclude outside applicants:smuggrin: but they probably have a valid reason;) for this unusual start date:).

P.S.- They are also the only sleep program that I know have an application fee. People including poor resident like I here might find it hard to shell out $15 with sky rocketing gas prices:laugh:
 
USIMGgrad said:
Just got back from vacation..

I don't remember all but the few that pop's to mind are Rush, Mcgaw, Iowa, Yale, Norwalk, Duke...

I think most of these filled internally.
Click to expand...

McGaw filled one position internally; Duke maintains that it PREFERS neurology trained residents ONLY; Yale lost funding now; Norwalk filled internally and i know cos' one of the fellows was a medical school friend of mine); Rush is heavily behavioral medicine focussed and yes, they fill internally 99% of time (purely hearsay)

And Freudianslip- Mayo is too anal about USMLE scores and Residency in training scores.... I do not understand why they would still hold USMLE scores as a valid screen for invitation to interview.... Sad!!!

And people not talking about Cleveland Clinic, Univ of Michigan, Ohio state, Casewestern, Baylor???- Do any fo you know info on these programs? and how they fill etc..?

Thanks:luck:
 
Sounds like the game has gotten very competitive. Nothing is easy in life eh?
 
Just wanted to refresh this thread.

Any news yet on how the sleep medicine fellowship search for 2009 is running for you guys? If anyone has anything encouraging (or discouraging) to note, please kindly mention it.

Personally, just 2 interviews so far. I know it is quite far away, but I am beginning to get paranoid that the programs will wait as long as possible to rope in internal candidates.

Anyways, any input would be greatly appreciated:thumbup:
 
Hey everone
WOWW this is a great forum ....I recently joined to share my experiences with you all. ...I am a psych iv applying for sleep fellowship this year. I have applied to around 25 programs. Does anyone know what is the timeline for them to call you back for an interview call...
Thanks
 
everyone says either august, september, or october...Its good to see a psych resident on the fellowship trail. Just guaging the competetiveness from various forums and discussions, it is going to be one long interview period. I am psych-4 too, but in a child fellowship.
I applied to about 20 programs too...just 2 interviews so far...how about yourself?
 
no luck so far. ....although I have sent my applications around 3 weeks ago.......just came back form the sleep meeeting at Baltimore......man talk about eager neurologists, internists and psychiatrists trying to make an impression. I met with people from Stanford, Wisconsin, U of Chicago and UNC ........it was a tough crowd.....but hey you just need one slot....good luck with the interviews. Keep in touch
 
How competetive is Iber's Sleep fellowshiip at Hennepin County Medical Center? Any thought or experieicnces?
 
I'm a psych IV and I'm interviewing for sleep now. Anyone know anything about stanford's program? How many fellows do they take? What is the program like? What kind of people do they take? Who do I have to Pay to get in?!!?! (just kidding on that last one)

I would really appreciate any info that anyone knows!!
 
Does anyone know anything about the programs in the Northeast: University of Vermont or Dartmouth? Are they good programs?
 
Sleep said:
Does anyone know anything about the programs in the Northeast: University of Vermont or Dartmouth? Are they good programs?
Click to expand...

Dartmouth has a solid sleep fellowship program. The center is administratively under dept of psych but is really multi disciplinary. Program director is trained in neurology, center director (Dr. Sateia) is a psychiatrist, 2 other faculty are board certified in pulm/critical care med. The program has had fellows from neuro, psych, internal medicine, residencies as well as pulm/critical care fellowships. Fellows get lots of personal attention and the faculty care about the fellows. Plenty of time and opportunity to do research if you chose to. Support staff are really fun to work with as well.
 
As this upcoming Academic year is the first year that all Sleep training must be done at an ACGME accredited program, are the other current applicants finding it more competitive and are willing to relocate far away?

Although 1 year is the minimum requirement, there are programs that are starting to stipulate a >1 year commitment (2 or 3 years total). Examples in the Northeast include MGH, Hopkins and UPenn. I am curious to see how many people here are considering these programs.
 
Some recent trends from my conversation with a PD-

- Lower number of applicants from Pulmonary because many are going for the grandfathering process for which there is Apr/May 2011 deadline.

- Increased number from applicants from Neurology, Internal Medicine and Family Medicine.

- Not a very high number of applicants from Psychiatry, but Psychiatry applicants are still viewed with skepticism as many PDs feel they move away from general medicine during their training. So, it may always help to pick up some extra skills and electives for psych folks.

- Sleep Medicine remains a very competitive fellowship due to a limited number of spots available. Many programs have just 1-2 spots and more than 100 or so applicants.

- Programs are either still interviewing or in the final stages of decisions making process. Many programs have already filled their positions but may be waiting for formalizing contracts etc. before announcing that they have filled.
 
WallyWalrus said:
there are programs that are starting to stipulate a >1 year commitment (2 or 3 years total). Examples in the Northeast include MGH, Hopkins and UPenn. I am curious to see how many people here are considering these programs.
Click to expand...

This is beyond insane. Two years is a stretch (unless maybe you plan to do some heavy research) and 3 is simply ridiculous. Frankly, if the ACGME were doing it's job, it would refuse to accredit such a program as simply being unjustified. IHMO, this is just the programs trying to lock in cheap labor.

I'd be interested too, to see how many people are actually desperate enough to sign on to a three-year program.
 
neurologist said:
This is beyond insane. Two years is a stretch (unless maybe you plan to do some heavy research) and 3 is simply ridiculous. Frankly, if the ACGME were doing it's job, it would refuse to accredit such a program as simply being unjustified. IHMO, this is just the programs trying to lock in cheap labor.

I'd be interested too, to see how many people are actually desperate enough to sign on to a three-year program.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right about this one. Only people who might be interested in these programs are the ones who want to pursue a doctorate, and a purely academic/research career. Most of the research at these programs is in basic science which is important to move the field forward but is not everyone's cup of tea.
 
Sleep said:
Does anyone know anything about the programs in the Northeast: University of Vermont or Dartmouth? Are they good programs?
Click to expand...

I'm new to this site, so my post might be a little late with regards to applying this year...but, I recently completed my sleep fellowship at Dartmouth and feel that my training has sufficiently prepared me for private practice in sleep medicine.

I am not familiar with the Vermont program.
 
TheWowEffect said:
Some recent trends from my conversation with a PD-

- Lower number of applicants from Pulmonary because many are going for the grandfathering process for which there is Apr/May 2011 deadline.

- Increased number from applicants from Neurology, Internal Medicine and Family Medicine.

- Not a very high number of applicants from Psychiatry, but Psychiatry applicants are still viewed with skepticism as many PDs feel they move away from general medicine during their training. So, it may always help to pick up some extra skills and electives for psych folks.

- Sleep Medicine remains a very competitive fellowship due to a limited number of spots available. Many programs have just 1-2 spots and more than 100 or so applicants.

- Programs are either still interviewing or in the final stages of decisions making process. Many programs have already filled their positions but may be waiting for formalizing contracts etc. before announcing that they have filled.
Click to expand...


My primary residency is in psychiatry. I did not feel disadvantaged with regards to my psychiatry background when I applied for sleep medicine fellowships. With that said, my internship was straight medicine and I spent many of my elective months in the sleep center at my residency program.

When I applied for jobs, there seemed to be much interest in my psychiatry training. Perhaps it was because of the balance I could bring to sleep centers where only pulmonologists practice. Some pulmonologists are not as knowledgeable or comfortable treating non-OSA sleep disorders such as insomnia.
 
Sleepygator said:
My primary residency is in psychiatry. I did not feel disadvantaged with regards to my psychiatry background when I applied for sleep medicine fellowships. With that said, my internship was straight medicine and I spent many of my elective months in the sleep center at my residency program.

When I applied for jobs, there seemed to be much interest in my psychiatry training. Perhaps it was because of the balance I could bring to sleep centers where only pulmonologists practice. Some pulmonologists are not as knowledgeable or comfortable treating non-OSA sleep disorders such as insomnia.
Click to expand...

I am glad that you responded and shared your experience. It helps many new applicants to learn from someone who has been there and done that. Thanksa lot! Please keep more comments coming to help current and future applicants.
 
Has anyone received any word about programs that have already filled for 2009?
 
TheWowEffect said:
Some recent trends from my conversation with a PD-

- Lower number of applicants from Pulmonary because many are going for the grandfathering process for which there is Apr/May 2011 deadline.

- Increased number from applicants from Neurology, Internal Medicine and Family Medicine.

- Not a very high number of applicants from Psychiatry, but Psychiatry applicants are still viewed with skepticism as many PDs feel they move away from general medicine during their training. So, it may always help to pick up some extra skills and electives for psych folks.

- Sleep Medicine remains a very competitive fellowship due to a limited number of spots available. Many programs have just 1-2 spots and more than 100 or so applicants.

- Programs are either still interviewing or in the final stages of decisions making process. Many programs have already filled their positions but may be waiting for formalizing contracts etc. before announcing that they have filled.
Click to expand...


Just received a couple of interviews from Jefferson and Temple in Philly...there are 32 applicants each for 1 position and 2 positions respectively...wow...I didn't realize that this is going to be one tough road ahead...It is in fact competetive...good luck everyone...will keep you posted about interview experiences.
 
TheWowEffect said:
- Lower number of applicants from Pulmonary because many are going for the grandfathering process for which there is Apr/May 2011 deadline.

.
Click to expand...

The grandfathering process is a great option for graduating residents of all the elgible specialties who are willing to do a lot of studying on their own, and have a local sleep lab that is willing to work with them.
 
michaelrack said:
The grandfathering process is a great option for graduating residents of all the elgible specialties who are willing to do a lot of studying on their own, and have a local sleep lab that is willing to work with them.
Click to expand...

Agree- It's definitely an available option that should not be overlooked. My personal opinion is that it is a great backup option these next two years, in case fellowship application falls through. But if given the choice, I'd recommend choosing to do an ACGME fellowship, as it looks much better on paper. It also makes you generally more marketable for either private practice or academia, compared to someone who just did the practice pathway. However, in some cases, where a practice group will sponsor someone to get trained in this manner, it won't matter practically speaking- because as long as you can read sleep studies, bill for them, and be board certified, that's more than good enough.

Many programs are in the process of interviewing now. Some have already extended offers. Good luck everyone!
 
Can anyone comment on the state of pediatric sleep medicine? If one wishes to accept a pediatric sleep position, I wonder how the future would be for this sup-group of Sleep medicine? Any comments would be highly appreciated. Cheers
 
michaelrack said:
:thumbup: Agree. Doing a full-year ACGME sleep fellowship will make you a much better sleep physician than the alternatives.
Click to expand...


I agree. I just came across this article regarding the title below. Unfortunately I don't have access to the full article from home but I did read it and the pass rate for fellows was 83% vs 53% for those taking the grandfathering pathway. Hope this helps.

http://www.aasmnet.org/jcsm/ViewAbstract.aspx?citationid=3696

Development and Results of the First ABMS Subspecialty Certification Examination in Sleep Medicine
Volume : 04
Issue : 05
Pages : 505-508
View PDF
Email a Friend


Stuart F. Quan, M.D.1,2; Richard B. Berry, M.D.3; Daniel Buysse, M.D.4; Nancy A. Collop, M.D.5; Madeleine Grigg-Damberger, M.D.6; Susan M. Harding, M.D.7; Conrad Iber, M.D.8; W. Vaughn McCall, M.D.9; Michael J. Sateia, M.D.10; Stephen H. Sheldon, D.O.11; Michael H. Silber, MB.ChB.12; Adam Sorscher, M.D.13; Sally L. Davidson Ward, M.D.14; Sigrid Veasey, M.D.15; B. Tucker Woodson, M.D.16; Brian Hess, Ph.D.17; Roberta Kangilaski17

In November 2007, the first Certification Examination in Sleep Medicine was administered to 1,882 candidates under the cosponsorship of five member boards of the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS)–the American Board of Internal Medicine, the American Board of Family Medicine, the American Board of Otolaryngology, the American Board of Pediatrics, and the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. The pass rate was 73%. This paper chronicles the history of a certification examination in Sleep Medicine and the development of this new ABMS examination.
 
Has anyone been offered and/or accepted a sleep fellowship position yet for 2009? I know that by now, a lot of interviews have already been held. Can one still expect interview invitations? Does anyone have any information about programs that have already filled?
 
Hi Dr. Rack,

what is your thought on pediatric sleep medicine? do you feel more child neurologists should go into the field of pediatric sleep medicine?
 
benwallace said:
Hi Dr. Rack,

what is your thought on pediatric sleep medicine? do you feel more child neurologists should go into the field of pediatric sleep medicine?
Click to expand...


There are only a few child sleep fellowships out there. I feel that doing one of these fellowships will limit you to practicing in a large urban area, or to an academic position. For more career flexibility, if you're interested in ped sleep med, it's better to do a regular sleep fellowship with heavy peds exposure.

IF you are interested in academics, doing a child sleep fellowship is a great idea.

http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/generic.jsp?id=78570

http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/ed/clinical/fellow/sleep-medicine/default.htm

It looks like at least one of the main child sleep fellowships expects the fellow to be a pediatrician. They are also 2-3 years long, as compared to a regular 1 year sleep fellowship. You may want to contact the programs and see if a child neuro background is acceptable.
 
Congrats doccarter- that's tough program to get into....Any others with such great news? I am still waiting on program directors to call back after thier selection meetings...
 
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