Feedback or Advice on dissatisfaction with research (UG)

[EquipedeFrance]

I want to preface this statement by saying that I'm an undergraduate student at a T10 who was heavily involved in research in high school. I did not have any parental involvement in getting the position back then, and I would often skip school to go to the lab and spent lots and lots of time there, working until late.

I loved my research in high school. The lab I worked in had several PDFs and the PI was heavily involved. I was given a lot of autonomy with choosing which/when/how to do experiments, and some of my early results, which were using some new techniques, were turned into projects I worked on individually. I shared my data with the PI and we would discuss and come up with new experiments, thoughts, and ideas. The main research technique we were using is uncommon and produced a LOT of raw data that we could analyze in many ways, which I loved. That is not to say it was easy - I had months of failed experiments due to technical errors, days of work disappearing when fixed sections degraded as a result of mishandling, etc. etc. but I remained motivated and invested. I was there for 3 years.

At my undergraduate school, my research experiences have felt highly disappointing to me. I wasted my first two years in an engineering heavy lab, which in retrospect, was a disastrous misfit. I found out that I loathe the idea of fiddling with a patchwork of parts to improve machinery, and I felt that the work lacked a strong biological focus. I switched labs to a more basic science research lab, and here, I find the techniques to be dated. More importantly, I feel like I have no autonomy - I have been paired with a PDF who is wonderful beyond measure, but I'm basically following along this narrow plan that the PI has plotted out. Although my thoughts are welcome and respected, I feel very restricted because I can never incorporate my own ideas and I cannot set the pace. I feel like a technician.

I cannot understate how much I loved my pre-UG work. If I was told I could do a PhD in that lab, I would jump at the opportunity. When paired with the past, my current research feels like stifling and I am deeply dissatisfied. I know I am still learning and welcome the expertise of all those senior to me; however, I don't feel fulfilled. I want to contribute (and I know I am) to the answering of clinically relevant scientific questions, but I don't feel fulfilled and am starting to dislike research. I want(ed) to go for an MD/PhD.

I have been told that undergrad research is like this and I should stick it out until graduate school. I was wondering if you guys think that this is true, and if you have any tips for me to improve my attitude. I also was wondering if you think I am suited for an MD-PhD, or a research career, or whether I should look elsewhere. Thank you!

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[nonamesleft]

high school: PI was heavily involved. I was given a lot of autonomy with choosing which/when/how to do experiments, and some of my early results, which were using some new techniques, were turned into projects I worked on individually. I shared my data with the PI and we would discuss and come up with new experiments, thoughts, and ideas.
undergraduate: Although my thoughts are welcome and respected, I feel very restricted because I can never incorporate my own ideas and I cannot set the pace. I feel like a technician.

I want to contribute (and I know I am) to the answering of clinically relevant scientific questions, but I don't feel fulfilled and am starting to dislike research. I want(ed) to go for an MD/PhD.

I have been told that undergrad research is like this and I should stick it out until graduate school. I was wondering if you guys think that this is true, and if you have any tips for me to improve my attitude. I also was wondering if you think I am suited for an MD-PhD, or a research career, or whether I should look elsewhere. Thank you!

To me, it seems like your experiences describe characteristics of individual labs, rather than an overview of undergraduate research. IMO, a lot has to do with how a PI prefers to mentor his/her people and what skills you have demonstrated. In a lab where the PI supports some autonomy in the student, as long as you've demonstrated some competence in thinking and problem-solving, the experience would be similar to what you had in high school. In these labs, it's not a matter of "age", but of "continual demonstrated skill" instead. In other labs, the PI is willing to give more autonomy to senior people (ex. PDFs), thinking that they are more mature in the thought process or in training. These may feel more restrictive for junior lab members. In a third type of lab, the PI is unwilling to let anyone other than him/herself dictate the direction. This could be due to the PI's personality, how the PI was trained, or if the PI was burned in the past by giving some autonomy away. For all of these scenarios, there will be some aspect of the PI driving the direction of the lab, since labs are generally funded on grants, and the PI has to account for progress made on the proposed project that received funding. Therefore, even in the labs with more autonomy and you get some freedom to explore (and work on other things), you would also likely need to contribute to the project(s) keeping the lab afloat.

TL;DR: In undergraduate research, although many start with doing "grunt work", it is not the only thing possible. If your current lab does not seem like a good fit, I would look into other labs. Speaking with people in other labs to see how much freedom they are allowed may help you find a better fit.

 

[EquipedeFrance]

Thanks for the answer; I really appreciate a second person's input. I guess you're right. It may just be that I'm at a more ~prestigious~ institution right now, but in the two labs I've worked at here, I've had both #3 and #2, both of which are less than ideal. I was always accountable to the PI and met with him often in my first lab, so I totally appreciate and understand how they have to handle grants and keep everyone on track.

The issue is that I plan on applying for my MD/PhD this summer, so I can't really afford to switch labs again, so I guess I'm going to suck it up and go along with it. I just feel like it destroys my love of research and science because from my end, I don't get to do what I like the most about science, which is to think and design. I guess I'll try to make the most of it and pick up skills and whatnot. I just feel highly intellectually disengaged from my classes and my lab work.

Is there a way to suss out PIs' styles when you meet them?

 

[Lucca]

Thanks for the answer; I really appreciate a second person's input. I guess you're right. It may just be that I'm at a more ~prestigious~ institution right now, but in the two labs I've worked at here, I've had both #3 and #2, both of which are less than ideal. I was always accountable to the PI and met with him often in my first lab, so I totally appreciate and understand how they have to handle grants and keep everyone on track.

The issue is that I plan on applying for my MD/PhD this summer, so I can't really afford to switch labs again, so I guess I'm going to suck it up and go along with it. I just feel like it destroys my love of research and science because from my end, I don't get to do what I like the most about science, which is to think and design. I guess I'll try to make the most of it and pick up skills and whatnot. I just feel highly intellectually disengaged from my classes and my lab work.

Is there a way to suss out PIs' styles when you meet them?

Talk to other undergraduates or graduate students working in the lab.

 

[nonamesleft]

Thanks for the answer; I really appreciate a second person's input. I guess you're right. It may just be that I'm at a more ~prestigious~ institution right now, but in the two labs I've worked at here, I've had both #3 and #2, both of which are less than ideal. I was always accountable to the PI and met with him often in my first lab, so I totally appreciate and understand how they have to handle grants and keep everyone on track.

The issue is that I plan on applying for my MD/PhD this summer, so I can't really afford to switch labs again, so I guess I'm going to suck it up and go along with it. I just feel like it destroys my love of research and science because from my end, I don't get to do what I like the most about science, which is to think and design. I guess I'll try to make the most of it and pick up skills and whatnot. I just feel highly intellectually disengaged from my classes and my lab work.

Is there a way to suss out PIs' styles when you meet them?

Agree with Lucca about figuring out PI styles. Also, since you mention the lack of ability to switch labs - have you spoken with your current PI and asked for advice or feedback? Does he know that you're looking for some independence? Have you demonstrated some characteristics (whether you realize it or not) that make it difficult for him to give you this freedom?

 

[EquipedeFrance]

Yeah, I mean, I talked to one undergraduate prior to joining and she said that the PI was very nice and that the lab didn't obsess too much over how many hours you work, which I thought was nice given how busy I am. I didn't really ask her about autonomy, which was a mistake.

I don't think I've demonstrated any behavior that would make me look unreliable - I think that's just the style of the lab. I guess I'm going to try and be as productive as I can now and then try to ask for more responsibility in the summer.

Thank you for your thoughts!

 

[mc2155]

I think these factors are very PI and lab specific... A more prestigious university might guarantee a higher caliber of research quality but doesn't really say anything about how a PI runs his or her lab. I don't think the distinction is pre-undergrad or undergrad, it's about labs having different personality. You just have to try to pick the one that fits you the most.