***2021-2022 MD/PhD: Feedback on school options***

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

For individuals with multiple acceptances to list pros and cons of different schools and gather opinions on options available.

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[Fencer]

I am sorry but historically these threads are not very productive at all. They ignore many circumstances that are key elements in the decision process including geography, science expertise, etc. They tend to degenerate into reputation rants....

Many of my colleagues ( @Neuronix, @Maebea, @MSTPadvocate, others ) have seen them before. If you want to be constructive, let's re-title and focus the energy upon what factors are important to consider in the selection process of a MD/PhD program.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I am sorry but historically these threads are not very productive at all. They ignore many circumstances that are key elements in the decision process including geography, science expertise, etc. They tend to degenerate into reputation rants....

Many of my colleagues ( @Neuronix, @Maebea, @MSTPadvocate, others ) have seen them before. If you want to be constructive, let's re-title and focus the energy upon what factors are important to consider in the selection process of a MD/PhD program.

After someone asked it in the main thread, I thought it might be productive to replicate what is seen on the main premed forum. If these are not usually productive in this forum, The title has been changed.

 

[Neuronix]

I disagree with Fencer here, and I'm totally fine with people posting their thoughts on various programs and comparisons between them.

 

[mickmars51]

Wanted to preface this by saying I am incredibly grateful to have these options, first one in my family to finish college and this has been a dream of mine for so long that it hasn’t even sunk in yet it’s come true.

General background: lived in Manhattan for past three years doing research at various labs in Weill Cornell, looking to do orthopedics as a clinical specialty and research can fall anywhere from regenerative spinal gene therapy to liquid biopsy for cancer/musculoskeletal disorders to single cell immunology/arthritis work. Would like to lean more bioinformatics and maintain an active healthy lifestyle for the next eight years and want to learn more about these two. My cycle isn’t over yet but for now these options are top choices for me, so I am excited to learn more about them. Feel like I know more about Tri-I because of proximity and want to hear as much as possible before leaning one way or the other, any comments on these programs would be much appreciated!

Duke
-have matched 100% of the mstp students into their top residency for the past ten years (mind boggling statistic!)
-curriculum makes sense to me, getting clinical done before the phd seems to help focus research area as well as step1/2 scores and now clerkships are P/F
-flawless interview day, the genuine interest from the faculty in my research and hobbies made me feel so wanted
-durham would be an amazing place to be long term, very affordable, beautiful weather, top notch research/clinical and new place to explore!
-chris kontos (director) knew my app front and back, was amazing during the interview and during our emails after really blew me away on how personally invested he was, also called me to give the A on super bowl sunday making it very memorable. trust him to look out for me and lead the program in a good direction
-accelerated pathway in orthopedics cuts out last year and could start residency after the phd, also seems to be some amazing ortho research and single cell work going on meaning I could find a niche and excel for years to come
-fitness facilities are paid for by program, so rock climbing, the gym and other facilities on campus are available to me at no cost
-aunt and uncle 20 min outside of durham, parents stated they would consider moving down here if I attended
-hear the hospital is terrific for teaching, and duke students are amazing interns due to their experience
-only met one student but he was wildly impressive both by founding a legit company and how cool/down to earth he was, also backed up my impression that the program leadership was terrific

Tri-I
-"home field advantage", have been here for three years know the campus and area well, many students have been helpful to me in application guidance as well as giving me insights about the program which makes me feel comfortable and like I have a support system! it was also the program I told everyone I wanted to go to since deciding on this path so kinda a dream -> manifestation
-institutional access to nyp, hss, msk, rockefeller, new york genome center is huge and will open doors not available elsewhere, especially with the hiring of the new bioinformatics/stats lead at hss the collaboration is literally across the street
-love how the housing is within a block of the campus and heavily subsidized, many student organizations and clubs that make use of nyc (especially since I have forgotten how to drive)
-outdoor roller hockey rink 20 blocks away where I coach youth programs/play pickup with friends, plus I could keep my equinox membership to ensure I don’t only focus on school
-family is in new jersey, could frequently visit them or have them come into the best area of nyc (upper east side) which has grown on me a bunch since living here (hot take I know lol)
-faculty meetings and research quality were mind blowing, the amount of experts in the field who reached out to me after the interview just to talk was amazing, met with one this past week and the advice/people to reach out to he gave was so thorough/well thought out
-ability to do phd at msk or rockefeller, both of these places are so top notch I can hardly believe I would have the opportunity to be a student there. access to collaborations/resources in endless.
-access to HSS, unmatched opportunities in the field here as a student but also not a home program for cornell so would have to apply more broadly since its so competitive. but its mind boggling to think of the people I could work with here
-boothroyd (administrative director) helped me pick out my people for revisit and has been described as a "gem" by the students I am friendly with

Basically these two options check all my boxes, and I am fortunate to be attending revisit for both. Anything I may have missed or suggestions on criteria to look for? Thanks all!

 

[installation2020]

Wanted to preface this by saying I am incredibly grateful to have these options, first one in my family to finish college and this has been a dream of mine for so long that it hasn’t even sunk in yet it’s come true.

General background: lived in Manhattan for past three years doing research at various labs in Weill Cornell, looking to do orthopedics as a clinical specialty and research can fall anywhere from regenerative spinal gene therapy to liquid biopsy for cancer/musculoskeletal disorders to single cell immunology/arthritis work. Would like to lean more bioinformatics and maintain an active healthy lifestyle for the next eight years and want to learn more about these two. My cycle isn’t over yet but for now these options are top choices for me, so I am excited to learn more about them. Feel like I know more about Tri-I because of proximity and want to hear as much as possible before leaning one way or the other, any comments on these programs would be much appreciated!

Duke
-have matched 100% of the mstp students into their top residency for the past ten years (mind boggling statistic!)
-curriculum makes sense to me, getting clinical done before the phd seems to help focus research area as well as step1/2 scores and now clerkships are P/F
-flawless interview day, the genuine interest from the faculty in my research and hobbies made me feel so wanted
-durham would be an amazing place to be long term, very affordable, beautiful weather, top notch research/clinical and new place to explore!
-chris kontos (director) knew my app front and back, was amazing during the interview and during our emails after really blew me away on how personally invested he was, also called me to give the A on super bowl sunday making it very memorable. trust him to look out for me and lead the program in a good direction
-accelerated pathway in orthopedics cuts out last year and could start residency after the phd, also seems to be some amazing ortho research and single cell work going on meaning I could find a niche and excel for years to come
-fitness facilities are paid for by program, so rock climbing, the gym and other facilities on campus are available to me at no cost
-aunt and uncle 20 min outside of durham, parents stated they would consider moving down here if I attended
-hear the hospital is terrific for teaching, and duke students are amazing interns due to their experience
-only met one student but he was wildly impressive both by founding a legit company and how cool/down to earth he was, also backed up my impression that the program leadership was terrific

Tri-I
-"home field advantage", have been here for three years know the campus and area well, many students have been helpful to me in application guidance as well as giving me insights about the program which makes me feel comfortable and like I have a support system! it was also the program I told everyone I wanted to go to since deciding on this path so kinda a dream -> manifestation
-institutional access to nyp, hss, msk, rockefeller, new york genome center is huge and will open doors not available elsewhere, especially with the hiring of the new bioinformatics/stats lead at hss the collaboration is literally across the street
-love how the housing is within a block of the campus and heavily subsidized, many student organizations and clubs that make use of nyc (especially since I have forgotten how to drive)
-outdoor roller hockey rink 20 blocks away where I coach youth programs/play pickup with friends, plus I could keep my equinox membership to ensure I don’t only focus on school
-family is in new jersey, could frequently visit them or have them come into the best area of nyc (upper east side) which has grown on me a bunch since living here (hot take I know lol)
-faculty meetings and research quality were mind blowing, the amount of experts in the field who reached out to me after the interview just to talk was amazing, met with one this past week and the advice/people to reach out to he gave was so thorough/well thought out
-ability to do phd at msk or rockefeller, both of these places are so top notch I can hardly believe I would have the opportunity to be a student there. access to collaborations/resources in endless.
-access to HSS, unmatched opportunities in the field here as a student but also not a home program for cornell so would have to apply more broadly since its so competitive. but its mind boggling to think of the people I could work with here
-boothroyd (administrative director) helped me pick out my people for revisit and has been described as a "gem" by the students I am friendly with

Basically these two options check all my boxes, and I am fortunate to be attending revisit for both. Anything I may have missed or suggestions on criteria to look for? Thanks all!

Hey! Since it seems no one has weighed in yet, I will. If I were you, I’d try to qualify whether the northeast is where I want to be forever or if you want to try something new. It seems like you’d be up for living in Durham forever, and are originally from the northeast. I’d try to dig a bit more into how well-renowned Duke is in Ortho specifically as that seems to be what you like, but I know Duke is fantastic for residency in general. If you’re pulled to Duke, but feel like you can’t give up the opportunities at Tri-I (even though they might be generally amazing, but perhaps not exactly fitted to your interests? As of course MSK is great in particular for cancer, Rockefeller for others, but do those actually align with your research?), I’d just try to match back to the NE/HSS for residency as you see Duke is fantastic in getting you into top programs anyway. I’d also look into whether HSS or other residency programs you might be interested in have a Cornell bias, as it seems that Cornell is one of the schools that has a bias for their own. I know HSS is not as securely tied, but just check their resident and fellows lists.

There’s no wrong choice to make here! As someone considering NYC programs vs elsewhere, I myself just didn’t want to live in the cramped NYC apartments or have a longer commute in my late 20s and early 30s. I’d rather match back from a program where I know I have a good chance at doing so. Good luck, excited to see what you choose!

 

[mickmars51]

Hey! Since it seems no one has weighed in yet, I will. If I were you, I’d try to qualify whether the northeast is where I want to be forever or if you want to try something new. It seems like you’d be up for living in Durham forever, and are originally from the northeast. I’d try to dig a bit more into how well-renowned Duke is in Ortho specifically as that seems to be what you like, but I know Duke is fantastic for residency in general. If you’re pulled to Duke, but feel like you can’t give up the opportunities at Tri-I (even though they might be generally amazing, but perhaps not exactly fitted to your interests? As of course MSK is great in particular for cancer, Rockefeller for others, but do those actually align with your research?), I’d just try to match back to the NE/HSS for residency as you see Duke is fantastic in getting you into top programs anyway. I’d also look into whether HSS or other residency programs you might be interested in have a Cornell bias, as it seems that Cornell is one of the schools that has a bias for their own. I know HSS is not as securely tied, but just check their resident and fellows lists.

There’s no wrong choice to make here! As someone considering NYC programs vs elsewhere, I myself just didn’t want to live in the cramped NYC apartments or have a longer commute in my late 20s and early 30s. I’d rather match back from a program where I know I have a good chance at doing so. Good luck, excited to see what you choose!

appreciate the answer! thats a good approach honestly, because the major difference between these two is location/style of living. durham and manhattan could not be more different, and that kinda excites me having the option to stay in the big city or go to a more rural collegy feel.

it seems hss takes one cornell person per year which is nice but does worry me a bit, however I hear amazing things about duke ortho so whether i stayed there or matched back i would be thrilled. obviously tri-i has the edge for research just due to the sheer number of PIs doing work related to my interests but hopefully revisit will help me see who I vibe with both school wise and classmates too!

totally get where you're coming from, nyc goes from being my favorite place to my least daily lol! happy to hear you have options as well, hopefully well get a chance to work together one day. thanks again for the input helps me to hear how other people approach this!

 

[mickmars51]

hoping to bump this thread, also hyped for upcoming duke revisit with the unc game this saturday!

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

hoping to bump this thread, also hyped for upcoming duke revisit with the unc game this saturday!

Hoping for some UNC waitlist movement from admitted people who care about sports withdrawing in shame when UNC loses 👏 (I know nothing of sports.)

 

[mickmars51]

Hoping for some UNC waitlist movement from admitted people who care about sports withdrawing in shame when UNC loses 👏 (I know nothing of sports.)

catch me googling tweets and repeating them as my own thoughts at the watch event 🤠

 

[microbezzzz]

Hey everyone! I’m struggling to pick between these three programs and I’d love to get your input if you have thoughts. Thanks in advance!

Program a



Location: Pretty good. Decent match for my extracurricular interests and very close to family which I know they would appreciate.

Research: Blah. I’ve tried and tried to get myself excited about the research here, but I haven’t been successful so far. This school has a few areas of research excellence but unfortunately, I am not interested in those fields. If I ended up here, I would probably just hope my research interests change during medical school. I have heard that the most important aspect of PhD training is mentor selection (not the project) so maybe I shouldn’t care too much about research ‘fit’ right now? I’m sure there are several great mentors here even if I am not currently excited about their research so hopefully things would turn out alright.

USNWR/Medical School: 30s – I think this program punches above its ranking in terms of reputation. By far the most name recognition and most competitive medical school. Of all of the medical schools, I liked the curriculum and people at this one the best. If I were applying MD-only, I’d probably go here over anywhere else. I loved it.

MD/PhD Program: Well established MSTP. The director and program administrator are fantastic. Actually, every single person I met seemed great. The MD and MSTP students seemed really close knit and were so welcoming. Favorite people. Great match list.



Program b



Location: Amazing. This is the only location where I would choose to live if I was not tied to a program. Not that the other places are bad, they’re just not ideal. I think happiness has more to do with community than location, but assuming the potential for community are the same at all places, this location will give me the best QOL based on my hobbies/interests. I see myself being most productive here because the opportunities to enjoy life outside of medicine and research.

Research: 4 PIs with whom I would love to work. I have spoken to two of the four and they seemed great. Of all of the faculty at all of the universities I have interviewed at, these four are doing the most exciting work related to my primary area of interest. Outside of these 4, there are other strong faculty in other areas with whom I could see myself working if I needed to pivot. Is 4 faculty a large enough pool that I can feel comfortable with my options? Should I try to meet with the other two before making a decision?

USNWR/Medical School: 30s – Probably the least name recognition of the three. The medical school was the least exciting of the three. Seems fine but nothing special.

MD/PhD Program: Fully-funded non-MSTP. (they’re applying for funding though). Program support seems good. The administration seems invested but I know there is a bit of uncertainty with any non MSTP. Should I be concerned about MSTP-status? Match here is probably weakest of the three. Lots of students match to great places but the spread is quite wide.



Program c



Location: Pretty far from family and geography is not ideal but QOL is supposed to be very good in this (small) city and I have friends in the program so I think it would be a fine place to live.

Research: Best in terms of broader research reputation, NIH funding, and diverse strengths. I spoke with two PIs with whom I would be excited about working with but those are really the only two in my current area of interest. Ideally, I would join a program with more faculty in my area of interest, but I am open to pivoting if these two don’t work out. The advantage of this program is that it is very strong in several other areas of interest so I am confident I would be able to find a lab I would be happy in.

USNWR/Medical School: 30s – Well-regarded public program. I like this medical school a lot, just not quite as much as program a.

Program support: Well established MSTP. Administration/programming/people seem great. Most students match to first choice residency programs.

 

[baz2020]

Hey everyone! I’m struggling to pick between these three programs and I’d love to get your input if you have thoughts. Thanks in advance!

Program a



Location: Pretty good. Decent match for my extracurricular interests and very close to family which I know they would appreciate.

Research: Blah. I’ve tried and tried to get myself excited about the research here, but I haven’t been successful so far. This school has a few areas of research excellence but unfortunately, I am not interested in those fields. If I ended up here, I would probably just hope my research interests change during medical school. I have heard that the most important aspect of PhD training is mentor selection (not the project) so maybe I shouldn’t care too much about research ‘fit’ right now? I’m sure there are several great mentors here even if I am not currently excited about their research so hopefully things would turn out alright.

USNWR/Medical School: 30s – I think this program punches above its ranking in terms of reputation. By far the most name recognition and most competitive medical school. Of all of the medical schools, I liked the curriculum and people at this one the best. If I were applying MD-only, I’d probably go here over anywhere else. I loved it.

MD/PhD Program: Well established MSTP. The director and program administrator are fantastic. Actually, every single person I met seemed great. The MD and MSTP students seemed really close knit and were so welcoming. Favorite people. Great match list.



Program b



Location: Amazing. This is the only location where I would choose to live if I was not tied to a program. Not that the other places are bad, they’re just not ideal. I think happiness has more to do with community than location, but assuming the potential for community are the same at all places, this location will give me the best QOL based on my hobbies/interests. I see myself being most productive here because the opportunities to enjoy life outside of medicine and research.

Research: 4 PIs with whom I would love to work. I have spoken to two of the four and they seemed great. Of all of the faculty at all of the universities I have interviewed at, these four are doing the most exciting work related to my primary area of interest. Outside of these 4, there are other strong faculty in other areas with whom I could see myself working if I needed to pivot. Is 4 faculty a large enough pool that I can feel comfortable with my options? Should I try to meet with the other two before making a decision?

USNWR/Medical School: 30s – Probably the least name recognition of the three. The medical school was the least exciting of the three. Seems fine but nothing special.

MD/PhD Program: Fully-funded non-MSTP. (they’re applying for funding though). Program support seems good. The administration seems invested but I know there is a bit of uncertainty with any non MSTP. Should I be concerned about MSTP-status? Match here is probably weakest of the three. Lots of students match to great places but the spread is quite wide.



Program c



Location: Pretty far from family and geography is not ideal but QOL is supposed to be very good in this (small) city and I have friends in the program so I think it would be a fine place to live.

Research: Best in terms of broader research reputation, NIH funding, and diverse strengths. I spoke with two PIs with whom I would be excited about working with but those are really the only two in my current area of interest. Ideally, I would join a program with more faculty in my area of interest, but I am open to pivoting if these two don’t work out. The advantage of this program is that it is very strong in several other areas of interest so I am confident I would be able to find a lab I would be happy in.

USNWR/Medical School: 30s – Well-regarded public program. I like this medical school a lot, just not quite as much as program a.

Program support: Well established MSTP. Administration/programming/people seem great. Most students match to first choice residency programs.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of these programs imo. It sounds like you don’t really want to live in the small city of program C and because of length of training and support system at program a, I would probably eliminate that one for that reason alone. Between program a and b is more difficult since you have such strong research interests at B but like medical school and people of a. I don’t think I would factor mstp vs non mstp into this decision. I would probably go with research fit, but I would say to try and take a deep look into program A and see if you are overlooking anybody because a strong match list indicates great support and mentors who are willing to help you in this long path, which is extremely valuable, just up to you on how much. Maybe reach out to program director of A and ask for them to help set up meetings with people, they likely know more than the website lists. Curious to hear other peoples thoughts though

 

[undecided3820]

Deciding between schools, appreciate any input! Pursuing my PhD in a somewhat uncommon field for MSTPs and want to match in a competitive residency.

Program A

Location: Very good. Closest to home, similar to home, feel comfortable here.

Research: Excellent. One of the top schools in my research area. I am kind of counting on working with one PI in particular but am confident that there are other good options if that doesn’t work out.

USNWR/Medical School: Top 25. I like the preclinical curriculum. Still has ranking. I wish the hospital system was stronger. Most MD students are in state (I am not).

MD/PhD Program: Got along great with the MSTP students. Very good match list but probably the weakest of the three schools. Average completion time more than 8 years, which is a negative to me.


Program B

Location: Not great. Safety is somewhat of a concern. Not a lot of things to do. No family or friends nearby. I don’t think I would want to leave campus/the area surrounding campus very often.

Research: Really only one PI who I would like to work with. Their research is a perfect fit for my interests, but it is pretty niche and I would be concerned if things change.

USNWR/Medical School: Top 10. High prestige in medicine. I love the curriculum here. I feel that the atmosphere and culture of this school are the best fit for me. Great hospital. If I were only going to medical school, I would probably choose here.

MD/PhD Program: Very strong program with great administration and lots of experience. However, I am afraid that my unique goals might make it more difficult to be supported here. Best match list of the three schools for the combination of prestige and specialties that I am interested in.

Program C

Location: Bad. Extremely different from my home. Concerns about safety and access to resources. Distance from my family is literally as far as you can get.

Research: Excellent. One of the top schools in my research area. Highly funded labs doing cutting edge research. I feel like doing research here is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

USNWR/Medical School: Top 5. Very high prestige both in and outside of medicine. Curriculum does not seem to fit my learning style. Feel like I could be a good fit with the MSTP students, not sure about the MD students. Hospital has a good reputation but there are some things that I personally don’t think I would like about it. I wonder what having this school’s name on my diploma could do for the rest of my career and worry about turning this opportunity down.

MD/PhD Program: Unstructured MSTP. I have not seen an emphasis on mentorship/guidance, as I have at the other schools. Push for students to finish in under 8 years, which is a positive to me. Match list is strong, but there are rarely students who go on to a residency in a specialty that I am interested in.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Deciding between schools, appreciate any input! Pursuing my PhD in a somewhat uncommon field for MSTPs and want to match in a competitive residency.

Program A

Location: Very good. Closest to home, similar to home, feel comfortable here.

Research: Excellent. One of the top schools in my research area. I am kind of counting on working with one PI in particular but am confident that there are other good options if that doesn’t work out.

USNWR/Medical School: Top 25. I like the preclinical curriculum. Still has ranking. I wish the hospital system was stronger. Most MD students are in state (I am not).

MD/PhD Program: Got along great with the MSTP students. Very good match list but probably the weakest of the three schools. Average completion time more than 8 years, which is a negative to me.


Program B

Location: Not great. Safety is somewhat of a concern. Not a lot of things to do. No family or friends nearby. I don’t think I would want to leave campus/the area surrounding campus very often.

Research: Really only one PI who I would like to work with. Their research is a perfect fit for my interests, but it is pretty niche and I would be concerned if things change.

USNWR/Medical School: Top 10. High prestige in medicine. I love the curriculum here. I feel that the atmosphere and culture of this school are the best fit for me. Great hospital. If I were only going to medical school, I would probably choose here.

MD/PhD Program: Very strong program with great administration and lots of experience. However, I am afraid that my unique goals might make it more difficult to be supported here. Best match list of the three schools for the combination of prestige and specialties that I am interested in.

Program C

Location: Bad. Extremely different from my home. Concerns about safety and access to resources. Distance from my family is literally as far as you can get.

Research: Excellent. One of the top schools in my research area. Highly funded labs doing cutting edge research. I feel like doing research here is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

USNWR/Medical School: Top 5. Very high prestige both in and outside of medicine. Curriculum does not seem to fit my learning style. Feel like I could be a good fit with the MSTP students, not sure about the MD students. Hospital has a good reputation but there are some things that I personally don’t think I would like about it. I wonder what having this school’s name on my diploma could do for the rest of my career and worry about turning this opportunity down.

MD/PhD Program: Unstructured MSTP. I have not seen an emphasis on mentorship/guidance, as I have at the other schools. Push for students to finish in under 8 years, which is a positive to me. Match list is strong, but there are rarely students who go on to a residency in a specialty that I am interested in.

B - Only one PI in your field not reliable to make the call to go there for research interest. Not wanting to leave campus not a good sign for 8 years of living.

C - No go. If you don’t feel comfortable in the area and don’t think you will get the support/structure you need, that’s a non-starter.

A - Obvious true neutral. It is a T25 MSTP; you will get great training here and they have your support network nearby. Is average graduation time high due to students pursuing their science of interest or because of support systems at the uni? Good question to answer.

A if you think you will not change opinions on the location of B, B if you are comfortable with flexibility and enjoyment of location.

 

[microbezzzz]

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of these programs imo. It sounds like you don’t really want to live in the small city of program C and because of length of training and support system at program a, I would probably eliminate that one for that reason alone. Between program a and b is more difficult since you have such strong research interests at B but like medical school and people of a. I don’t think I would factor mstp vs non mstp into this decision. I would probably go with research fit, but I would say to try and take a deep look into program A and see if you are overlooking anybody because a strong match list indicates great support and mentors who are willing to help you in this long path, which is extremely valuable, just up to you on how much. Maybe reach out to program director of A and ask for them to help set up meetings with people, they likely know more than the website lists. Curious to hear other peoples thoughts though

Thanks @baz2020, I really appreciate your input. I think you're right that I can narrow it down to a and b. I went back through the faculty list at program a and found one faculty member I missed previously whose work does excite me quite a bit. Between this PI and a few others in other fields, I feel pretty confident that I'd find something satisfactory (or better) at program a. Still, program b is a much better research fit based on the number and quality of faculty in my ideal area. Priorities, priorities.