Family vs. Career?!?!

[leelee28]

I am facing a huge dilemma, and while I know that the decision is my own to make, I'd love some feedback!

I have been interested in medicine for longer than I can probably remember. In high school I wanted to teach health. Then as I entered college, I wanted to do medical research. After I discovered that I actually hate research, I decided to go to medical school. I did all the work, and in January this year I was accepted into the Medical College of Wisconsin.

Perfect.... right?

Well, turns out that real life is a lot more difficult that I ever imagined it would be. And unfortunately, it just hit me oh... about 2 weeks ago.
Ever since I started this whole medical school journey, I've questioned if it's the right thing for me. I want to treat patients. I love working with people. But I am afraid that the commitment to medical school and (especially) residency is more than I can give.

I am currently engaged. We are getting married in June 2010. One thing that is very important to us is family. We want to start a family in our mid 20s (ie: when I'll be starting residency) So now I have this conflict between family life and my career. The fact of the matter is that I do not want my career to be my first priority.

Last semester I learned about PAs, which I didn't even know existed. I kind of brushed it off, but now have brought that idea back for consideration. I have been doing more research on this topic than I think I've ever done on any school project! And with finals starting, it really shouldn't be my main focus. But this is my future! So I'm torn.

The reason I'm am starting to fancy PA is because of the flexibility it offers. I REFUSE to have someone else raise my kids. I don't want a full time nanny, or for my kids to be in childcare while I'm doing 110 hrs/wk of residency. I know that women do it, but as a woman, I think there is nothing more important than being in you child's life. As a child of a distant father, I know what it's like to ache for attention from a parent who can't give it. I don't want my relationship to be like that with my own children. And I'd like to point out that I think, as a mother, there is a different sense of responsibility and connection to your child than a father has (no offense, men). My dad had suggested I talk to a male doctor of a family I know and I was like, "Being a father and a doctor is VERY different than being a mother and a doctor" I don't think he gets it though..... And (in case you think of suggesting it) neither my fiance nor I want to wait until AFTER I am done with everything. It's just not an option for us.

Additionally, there are a LOT of things I want to do with my life. I'd like to get my Masters of Public Health, and do community health education. I am very passionate about educating people who are not fortunate enough to get the proper health education they need. Our society suffers from so many bad things and most people just aren't aware of what they are doing to their bodies and minds.
I want to be involved in so many activities, not only for my children and husband, but also for myself.
I see a lot of people saying that PAs are limited in what they can do. And while I don't deny that I wouldn't be able to do everything a Doctor can do, I also feel that waiting another 12 years before I can even think about doing anything else with my life seems pretty limiting to me.

I know that people say that PAs do doctors' "bitch work". All I know is that I want to INTERACT With and build a rapport with my patients. I want to treat them with respect and improve their lives. I want to educate my community. I want to be a parent and be INVOLVED in my children's lives.

Has anyone faced a dilemma similar to mine? Especially the parenting/residency issue (which is one of my main concerns). How have you handled it? What kind of recommendations do you have?
I have a meeting set up with an advisor at the PA school here and plan on bringing a long list of questions. But since it seems that a lot of people here are in these situations now, I thought this would be a good place to start!
Thank you for your time and help!

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[sumstorm]

The reason I'm am starting to fancy PA is because of the flexibility it offers. I REFUSE to have someone else raise my kids. I don't want a full time nanny, or for my kids to be in childcare while I'm doing 110 hrs/wk of residency. I know that women do it, but as a woman, I think there is nothing more important than being in you child's life. As a child of a distant father, I know what it's like to ache for attention from a parent who can't give it. I don't want my relationship to be like that with my own children. And I'd like to point out that I think, as a mother, there is a different sense of responsibility and connection to your child than a father has (no offense, men). My dad had suggested I talk to a male doctor of a family I know and I was like, "Being a father and a doctor is VERY different than being a mother and a doctor" I don't think he gets it though..... And (in case you think of suggesting it) neither my fiance nor I want to wait until AFTER I am done with everything. It's just not an option for us.

Based on the rest of your message, it sounds to me like you have no real idea of what you want to do and you are grasping at whichever straw sounds good for the moment. I think you might need to meet with a career counselor and work through what actually suits your skills and talents and your life constraints.

Now, onto life constraints, realize that you choose your life constraints. Your HUSBAND could raise your child/ren while you are in residency. If you do not feel that your husband is competent to do so, why would you marry him? You could be hit by a truck and die the day after you give birth...and your child would be raised (hopefully) by your husband. If you can't give him that amount of trust and responsability, don't marry him.

Also, you site the distance from your FATHER. Children need time with both parents, but that doesn't have to be all at once, and it doesn't have to be equally distributed. There is an interesting level of arrogance in the idea that having a uterus makes you the most important person in a child's life once they exist. My husband will be the primary care giver of our children. I respect and admire him for that. If you want to be the sole responsible caregiver, accept that any and all careers will take your attention from your children. That is ok (though it could put you at risk if you are ever the sole parent that has to provide every resource for them), but don't try to justify it by marginalizing male parents or glorifying female parents.

I know doctors who had thier children while in school. Men and women. The ones who valued their families have solid, strong families along with highly rewarding careers. I also know people where NEITHER parent works full time and the family is fragmented and the kids are fractious. Quality matters as much as quantity.

 

[leelee28]

Also, you site the distance from your FATHER. Children need time with both parents, but that doesn't have to be all at once, and it doesn't have to be equally distributed. There is an interesting level of arrogance in the idea that having a uterus makes you the most important person in a child's life once they exist. My husband will be the primary care giver of our children. I respect and admire him for that. If you want to be the sole responsible caregiver, accept that any and all careers will take your attention from your children. That is ok (though it could put you at risk if you are ever the sole parent that has to provide every resource for them), but don't try to justify it by marginalizing male parents or glorifying female parents.

I guess I did not explain myself clearly. I have no doubt that my fiance will be a great father and caregiver. And I would absolutely trust him with the responsibility of raising our children. But that's not the point for me. I want both of us to be involved. I love children. So much. And I want my children to have the best life I can give them. I don't want them to grow up in a two parent house where only one of the parents is doing the primary raising, like I did. I have friends whose parent(s) were doctors and they have no recollection of one of their parents until they were well into their elementary school years. My father was not present for most of my young childhood, and I still have difficulties connecting with him today. He had good reasons for being gone (he was a recovering alcoholic) but it doesn't repair the damage done of having a distant parent.
This is about me and my personal feelings about being a mother. I am not saying that men are not capable. But it doesn't change the way I feel about having children of my own, and the responsibility any parent has to raise their child(ren).

I have never had a close family, and I yearn for it. But I also want to have a career. I am looking for a compromise to do what I love in all areas of my life. I realize that I will not be there for everything. But to be working 110hrs/week during critical periods of development does not make me feel that I would be making the right choice.

And sure, you can say that we just wait until I'm done and we are stable, but we have talked about that extensively. And neither of us wants that. We respect each other, and put trust in our relationship. But my personal feelings and convictions are not going to change just because my husband can raise our children.

Does that make a little more sense?
Also, I am going to an advisor next week to talk about my options. I'm not an idiot. I'm just trying to make the best decision for myself and would like some insight from people who are there or have been there.

 

[LadyMoreta]

It sounds like you're on the right track looking at PA training at this time. (You could also look into nursing as well if that interests you.) You know yourself, and it sounds like you would be very disappointed with your life if you were in medical training during your children's early years. There's nothing wrong with that! I had a very similar experience. All through high school and about a year and a half of college, I KNEW that I wanted to be a doctor. It was my dream, and I'd already made sacrifices to make sure I was a great applicant. Then, about 6 months after I got married, I realized that a 2-doctor household was not the kind of family that would make my life what I wanted it to be. (My husband was also pre-med.) I was sad to let that dream go, but I knew that I would be happier if I could stay at home with my future children. So - I got a business degree and got a decent paying job to keep our medical school debt down, and I'm working during my husband's residency until we have children. Someday I'll probably go back to school to train to do something I like better than this, but right now I'm just so excited about my next job - raising my kids.

Just because you don't go to medical school now doesn't mean that you can't go sometime in the future. It might be something you look into when your children get into high school or college, when they are more independent. And if you get PA or nursing training now, that training will help you when you become a doctor.

Becoming a doctor is not only having the intelligence to learn the complicated subject matter. You also have to have the will and desire to make the sacrifices required to complete training. This means being willing to put in 80+ hours a week, move repeatedly, miss family functions (holidays, birthdays, funerals, etc.), and if you're married, take your spouse along for the ride.

If you choose to go to medical school, that is fine, too. There are tons of wonderful mothers who are doctors. There are less demanding specialties that you can select that will give you both quality and quantity of family time. Your husband can bring the kids to the hospital for dinner on call nights, and (depending on your residency program) your post-call days might be mostly free. My husband gets three weeks of vacation during residency, which is a week longer than I've ever gotten (working for almost 5 years... no, not bitter...)

There's really no right or wrong decision, but from your posts, it sounds like waiting would be a better fit for what you're looking for. If you decide to wait, you're not giving up your dream. You're just accomplishing other ones in the meantime.

 

[leelee28]

There's really no right or wrong decision, but from your posts, it sounds like waiting would be a better fit for what you're looking for. If you decide to wait, you're not giving up your dream. You're just accomplishing other ones in the meantime.

Thanks for the encouragement!
I have been reading through so many people's posts and personal stories and am just like "I don't want that!" I love my fiance so much and we have a wonderful relationship. But I don't want to put our relationship through that! I am anxious to talk with a PA advisor. And like you (and my fiance) have said, I can always go back and do it later if I really wanted to.

I think I'm making the right choice. There's so much more to life than a career (at least for me ) and I want to experience it while I'm young and healthy!!

 

[pillowhead]

Thanks for the encouragement!
I have been reading through so many people's posts and personal stories and am just like "I don't want that!" I love my fiance so much and we have a wonderful relationship. But I don't want to put our relationship through that! I am anxious to talk with a PA advisor. And like you (and my fiance) have said, I can always go back and do it later if I really wanted to.

I think I'm making the right choice. There's so much more to life than a career (at least for me ) and I want to experience it while I'm young and healthy!!

please don't go to medical school. residency is exhausting and tough. no one wants their unhappy co-residents whose only thought is getting home to their children. no one wants a doctor like that either.

family life and medicine can definitely be compatible but you sound like you already have the mentality of a stay at home, helicopter-ish type mom who wants to be very very very active in your children's lives. wonderful! you know what you want! so why would you choose a career that's totally, diametrically opposed to that?

through med school and residency, i have met many female physicians with happy home lives and very successful careers. But obviously, they are not as involved in the minutia of their children's lives as a stay at home mom would be or as a mother who works only a few hours a week. We all have different priorities. The hard part is figuring out those priorities. once you know them, the path gets clearer.

 

[leelee28]

please don't go to medical school. residency is exhausting and tough. no one wants their unhappy co-residents whose only thought is getting home to their children. no one wants a doctor like that either.
We all have different priorities. The hard part is figuring out those priorities. once you know them, the path gets clearer.

Thanks for your honesty!
I think I have come to decision to not do medical school. It's just not right for someone like me!

I need to do some extra classes to apply for PA school. I am also friends with the former chair of admissions at the Nursing school at UW-Madison and she asked if I had ever considered NP. I hadn't because I don't have any kind of nursing background and that would just take too long. But she said that Marquette has a MSN program for those who don't have a bachelor's in nursing. Then after 3 yrs there I could continue to my DNP.
So noooow it's, which do I choose!?!
I feel like waiting until this late in the game may be a little difficult, so I might apply to both! The NP stuff definitely needs more research though....

I've also decided to (at some point) get my MPH too! There is just too much I want to do!

But I have come to peace with myself and my decisions. Thank you for your honest inputs. They are truly appreciated!

 

[bkz]

All through high school and about a year and a half of college, I KNEW that I wanted to be a doctor. It was my dream, and I'd already made sacrifices to make sure I was a great applicant. Then, about 6 months after I got married, I realized that a 2-doctor household was not the kind of family that would make my life what I wanted it to be. (My husband was also pre-med.) I was sad to let that dream go, but I knew that I would be happier if I could stay at home with my future children. So - I got a business degree and got a decent paying job to keep our medical school debt down, and I'm working during my husband's residency until we have children. Someday I'll probably go back to school to train to do something I like better than this, but right now I'm just so excited about my next job - raising my kids.

Just because you don't go to medical school now doesn't mean that you can't go sometime in the future. It might be something you look into when your children get into high school or college, when they are more independent. And if you get PA or nursing training now, that training will help you when you become a doctor.

Thanks for sharing this. I am curious, if you don't mind, do you plan to go back to school to become a PA or MD in the future? Would you not care if going back to school doesn't work out, because raising your children is ultimately more fulfilling?

 

[WorkaholicsAnon]

I agree that a career as a physician would not be a good idea for you. Medical school is ok, but residency really is your life while you're at it. It is tough enough for a single person to get through. Being married can make things easier in a way, but your husband would need to be supportive and understanding of what you are going through. Having kids during residency i'm sure will be tough. Lots of residents get pregnant and have babies while training, and/or had kids from before, but being a physician with clinical responsibilities brings with itself a degree of responsibility to your patients that at times must take priority over your kids. Being a 3rd year resident a few months away from being done with residency, still single, I am feeling the way you are. At times I regret choosing this career path because unlike you, I would have been perfectly happy doing research and going to grad school to get a ph.d. That said, doing clinical work has brought many rewarding moments for me, and a lot of personal satisfaction with doing good things for people, being supportive in their times of illness, trying to figure out what was wrong with them, or getting them feeling better or healed, or making them as comfortable as possible in their terminal conditions. Residency training has really burnt me out however, and I am the epitome of having sacrificed my youth, my health, and my social life in this endeavor. I am not sure that being a clinical attending physician will really be any different that way. Thus, after all this effort, I'm going back to the research world after all.

As for your alternative career ideas here are my thoughts:

Why would anyone want to be a PA? That's like being an intern for your whole career. Sure, maybe the hours are a little shorter for a PA vs an intern, but you get yelled at by big-name surgeons on a daily basis and get no respect from your superiors nor the patients you work with. As for building rapport with patients, there are so many patients to care for that you wont have much time for that anyway (and if you do have time for that, the hospital will have you work on more patients to make more money). And patients always look forward to building rapport with "the doctor" (meaning the attending) not the PA or the resident. As soon as you mention you are either one, you get look and attitude of disappointment (from most patients, not all though).

Nursing is a whole different sphere of healthcare with a totally different emphasis from medicine. Nursing is not an easy job. Hours are much better from those of medicine, but when you are on the job, it is highly physically demanding, involves a lot of dirty work, and not all patients are peachy. I admire the nurses for the work they do--not everyone can do it. To get to be an NP, you have to first go through nursing school and training, and if i'm not mistaken, you may need to work as an RN for a few years (though I could be wrong about this).

For a flexible job for a highly educated person who wants to be an involved parent but have an intellectual career, a research-oriented career path is best I think, but sounds like you've discovered that you dislike research. In that case, i'm not sure what the utility an MPH will give you (perhaps having a role in a health department?).

If you like building rapport with people, have you considered social work?? Nutrition is another chill career with great hours and directly communicating with patients. Both are well respected in the hospital setting. I highly recommend that you look into these latter 2 career paths--i think they would be an excellent match for what you are looking for.

Congratulations on your engagement and upcoming wedding!

 

[halophile]

For a flexible job for a highly educated person who wants to be an involved parent but have an intellectual career, a research-oriented career path is best I think, but sounds like you've discovered that you dislike research. In that case, i'm not sure what the utility an MPH will give you (perhaps having a role in a health department?).

Very useful feedback there!
However, seeing most of the Profs, I had come to a conclusion that research-oriented path is also not an option for people who want to be an active part of their families...but seriously is that really true? because I'm in the same boat as leelee and I wish I could have a great family life and also a fulfilling career which matches my potential...

 

[halophile]

I am facing a huge dilemma, and while I know that the decision is my own to make, I'd love some feedback!

I have been interested in medicine for longer than I can probably remember. In high school I wanted to teach health. Then as I entered college, I wanted to do medical research. After I discovered that I actually hate research, I decided to go to medical school. I did all the work, and in January this year I was accepted into the Medical College of Wisconsin.

Perfect.... right?

Well, turns out that real life is a lot more difficult that I ever imagined it would be. And unfortunately, it just hit me oh... about 2 weeks ago.
Ever since I started this whole medical school journey, I've questioned if it's the right thing for me. I want to treat patients. I love working with people. But I am afraid that the commitment to medical school and (especially) residency is more than I can give.

I am currently engaged. We are getting married in June 2010. One thing that is very important to us is family. We want to start a family in our mid 20s (ie: when I'll be starting residency) So now I have this conflict between family life and my career. The fact of the matter is that I do not want my career to be my first priority.

Last semester I learned about PAs, which I didn't even know existed. I kind of brushed it off, but now have brought that idea back for consideration. I have been doing more research on this topic than I think I've ever done on any school project! And with finals starting, it really shouldn't be my main focus. But this is my future! So I'm torn.

The reason I'm am starting to fancy PA is because of the flexibility it offers. I REFUSE to have someone else raise my kids. I don't want a full time nanny, or for my kids to be in childcare while I'm doing 110 hrs/wk of residency. I know that women do it, but as a woman, I think there is nothing more important than being in you child's life. As a child of a distant father, I know what it's like to ache for attention from a parent who can't give it. I don't want my relationship to be like that with my own children. And I'd like to point out that I think, as a mother, there is a different sense of responsibility and connection to your child than a father has (no offense, men). My dad had suggested I talk to a male doctor of a family I know and I was like, "Being a father and a doctor is VERY different than being a mother and a doctor" I don't think he gets it though..... And (in case you think of suggesting it) neither my fiance nor I want to wait until AFTER I am done with everything. It's just not an option for us.

Additionally, there are a LOT of things I want to do with my life. I'd like to get my Masters of Public Health, and do community health education. I am very passionate about educating people who are not fortunate enough to get the proper health education they need. Our society suffers from so many bad things and most people just aren't aware of what they are doing to their bodies and minds.
I want to be involved in so many activities, not only for my children and husband, but also for myself.
I see a lot of people saying that PAs are limited in what they can do. And while I don't deny that I wouldn't be able to do everything a Doctor can do, I also feel that waiting another 12 years before I can even think about doing anything else with my life seems pretty limiting to me.

I know that people say that PAs do doctors' "bitch work". All I know is that I want to INTERACT With and build a rapport with my patients. I want to treat them with respect and improve their lives. I want to educate my community. I want to be a parent and be INVOLVED in my children's lives.

Has anyone faced a dilemma similar to mine? Especially the parenting/residency issue (which is one of my main concerns). How have you handled it? What kind of recommendations do you have?
I have a meeting set up with an advisor at the PA school here and plan on bringing a long list of questions. But since it seems that a lot of people here are in these situations now, I thought this would be a good place to start!
Thank you for your time and help!

Leelee seriously that's sort of what's going in my mind these days and I believe it's either of the two you'd have to choose
Because even if your kids get older in a couple of yrs, you'd still want to be there for them...say if they hit their late teens...hate to say this, but I think it'd be very hard to have that mind set again for school...and that too med school...yet, I too like you have been very ambitious towards a MD career, and I am still confused whether I should choose a research-oriented path or just totally shift my gears to another career such as MSc in Psychology etc.

 

[LadyMoreta]

Thanks for sharing this. I am curious, if you don't mind, do you plan to go back to school to become a PA or MD in the future? Would you not care if going back to school doesn't work out, because raising your children is ultimately more fulfilling?

I'm not really interested in the medical field anymore. I think since I made the decision to let it go, I just don't have the commitment it takes anymore. After seeing my husband go through medical school and now residency, I don't really want to re-live that. I was actually considering going back to school either for my MBA or for teaching certification. I'm leaning more towards teaching at the moment - I would love to be a high school computer programming teacher.

Even if I don't go back to school, I think that raising children and having more time with my family will be more fulfilling to me. I know how much doctors sacrifice, and I admire them for it, but don't see myself as ever being able to be that dedicated to any career. That's why doctors are (or at least should be!) so respected. Also, since my husband is amazing he's said that he would support my career choices, and once he's finished, we won't have to have my paycheck to get by, so I can do something that pays less (like teaching) or I can use my time and skills for charity organizations.

 

[Birdeee]

Another viewpoint that I would probably have dismissed out of hand if I had read it in my twenties. (Hi Lady Moreta - we are both on another board)

This is a really interesting thread to read. Both my husband and I were teachers (I stayed at home for several years before our own children went to school) and then while they were in high school my husband took his pre-reqs for medical school. He is finishing up his first year of medical school as our youngest child is finishing up his first year of college. We got married in our late twenties and had children right away. (kids don't always come on schedule - we had three in five years to minimize the amount of time I would be out of the workforce)

I talked to my kids recently about it and they liked having two "hands-on" parents that were both home during school vacations and preferred it to having more money and they were also impressed by watching their father make such a big change. I am glad my husband is able to follow this dream now but glad that we raised our children together first.

Everyone has to make their own choices but there are many different paths.

 

[RemiJP]

I would encourage anyone who is interested in medicine to consider the rehab sciences (PT, OT, and Speech). I'm in speech so it's the only one I speak about in detail. We only have to go to grad school for two years and we essentially have our pick as to what setting we want to work in (hospital, outpatient, skilled nursing, home care, schools, early intervention). One huge advantage I see is that we often get to spend a lot more time with patients and their families than MDs/PAs do. We don't perform life-saving surgeries and we don't make as much money (we definitely make more than residents in our 1st year!), but we play an important role in the evaluation and treatment for individuals with a huge range of illnesses and injuries.

 

[LovinPsych]

Another viewpoint that I would probably have dismissed out of hand if I had read it in my twenties. (Hi Lady Moreta - we are both on another board)

This is a really interesting thread to read. Both my husband and I were teachers (I stayed at home for several years before our own children went to school) and then while they were in high school my husband took his pre-reqs for medical school. He is finishing up his first year of medical school as our youngest child is finishing up his first year of college. We got married in our late twenties and had children right away. (kids don't always come on schedule - we had three in five years to minimize the amount of time I would be out of the workforce)

I talked to my kids recently about it and they liked having two "hands-on" parents that were both home during school vacations and preferred it to having more money and they were also impressed by watching their father make such a big change. I am glad my husband is able to follow this dream now but glad that we raised our children together first.

Everyone has to make their own choices but there are many different paths.

That's very inspiring and promising Do you have any advice for me ? I'm almost 22 years old , ( may 20th) . I'm in a serious relationship , engaged to a man with one child . He's his lil boy , I don't have any children from me yet . I am going to get my BA in psychology first which will take me 4 years . I want to get my Ph.D so I can be a Clinical Psychologist . i was wondering if you had any advice for me ? i want kids but not just yet , my b/f tells me he wants me to have one at least before i turn 30 so even if i am 29 and having a kid he will be happy but is that possible ? practical even ?

 

[dragonfly99]

OK,
I didn't read the entire thread but did read several of the OP's posts on here, including the original post @top of the thread.

I just want to say that the OP's worries about having to work 110 hrs/week in residency are misguided, in the sense that it's very unlikely she'd ever have to do that. I did work a few 110 hr weeks as a med student, but my med school was known for being particularly ball busting, and I was taking hard rotations like ortho and trauma surgery when I did that - these are not required rotations. Also, there are now work hours limits which did not exist at that time and which have forced reduction in the hours worked by trainees (med students and residents). Med school and residency IS really hard, but 80hrs/week is currently the limit of what you can be made to work during residency. You would almost certainly have the option of choosing a field of medicine where that many hrs/week would seldom be required (or maybe even never required). Fields with better/less hours include things like pathology, dermatology and psychiatry, and probably some others as well.

However, having said all this, I think that you can expect to work more hours during training than most other occupations, including a PA in training. Once you are done with residency you really would/will have a great deal of flexibility about your work hours, if that is what you choose. This is unless you choose a surgical field and perhaps a few others in medicine where it would be really hard to work part time. There are certainly quite a number of docs in things like endocrinology, primary care, psychiatry and dermatology who choose to work part time. This would give you the option of spending more time with your kids. Also, quite a few people manage to have a kid during medical school so it isn't impossible to do...you don't want to do it during 3rd year, but I had at least one classmate who had one during 4th year (which is pretty much elective time and usually you could get a few months off if you needed it). Also, some people choose to spread out 1st or 2nd year of med school over 2 years, vs. one, and many med schools will let you do this. It might involve taking 1/2 the normal course load, or sitting out certain blocks and taking classes during others. This could be discussed with the med school that has already accepted you, if you are thinking of having kids very soon.

I think PA and/or MPH can also be great careers. I am not quite sure what the MPH job market is like right now, or what all the options are, but you may certainly want to explore this option if it appeals to you as much or more as being a physician. I definitely know that PA's are in demand right now, and likely will continue to be. It is true you won't make quite as much money as a PA as you would as an MD, and you would be limited in some of the things you can do, but also you can do a lot of the same or similar things as an MD can do. Also, there are things PA's can do that MD's cannot (or that it is hard for us to do). I have seen many nurses and PA's who get bored with a certain area of focus or practice (i.e. ER or cardiology clinic, etc.) and just decide to move on to another specialty area. It's harder to do that as a DO or MD after you've already invested a lot of years in a residency, and usually people don't do more than one residency (although it can be done) so once you pick a specialty area in most cases you are kind of stuck there, for better or worse.

I just want to say that if you are unsure of what you want to do, it would not be out of line to talk with the admissions committee at the school that accepted you, and see if you can defer admission for a year. During that time, you can thing about whether you really want to do medicine vs. something else. It's just an idea and I don't know that they'd definitely say yes, but I do think picking a career is an important decision and you want to be happy with it.

I also want to say that you shouldn't think that becoming a doctor means that you'll never see your kids. Tons of female docs have kids, and they don't all have a nanny to stay with them all the time...especially if you look @certain specialties like pediatrics, there are a ton of people who have kids, even during residency. I do think it would be challenging, but witha supportive spouse and some family support, it's not going to be impossible.

Also, remember that a lot of the middle aged docs who you talk to about this came up/trained at a time where the expectations on residents were really pretty brutal. I have to say that though med school was kind of brutal, when the work hours limits came in a few years ago (during the end of my time in med school, and during my residency) that really did change things for the better in terms of the excessive work hours. Residency is still hard and grueling, but it is not like what some people faced in the old days, for the most part. Also, the hours you are required to work as a resident (and when done with residency) really do vary quite a bit according to the specialty you choose to do, and where you decide to do your residency (and subsequently what job you take).

 

[dragonfly99]

leelee
personally I'd go for the PA vs. a NP if you are considering both.
The reason is that in your situation (not already practicing nursing) I don't see the reason to get the NP because it's gonna take you forever...I mean first you have to get a master's in nursing and then 3 more years to get a NP. You might as well go to MD or DO school. Also I think the PA school teaches more patient care in the MD or DO mold, while I've heard a lot of the NP programs stress a lot of nursing theory, etc. in the classes, because they assume you already have direct patient care experience. I have heard some other NP's and MD/DO people complain about the people who went straight for NP without nursing experience because they basically didn't have the clinical experience to fall back on when they started out working. Just a thought.

 

[Mr hawkings]

Look. Bottom line is regardless of the path you choose, if you cannot stand being at work because it takes you away from your kids, thenyou should probably just take care of your kids.

Someone above mentioned that no one wants a co-resident who is itching to end a shift to rush home to her kids. Well that applies to all the other options. I dont think the nurses want that either.

Either way, missing your kids and wanting to be with them is a normal feeling that tons of residents, nurses and PAs feel everyday. The difference, will you be able to miss them and enjoy working in your chosen profession at the same time? Do you ever see yourself thinking that you "settled" for something in order to spend more time with family? If so, then do what you would love to do, be it MD/DO, nursing or PA.

The family will be alright. It will be tougher on you than it will be on them. Kids are more understanding and resilient than we give them credit for.

 

[Neuronix]

There are a number of medical specialties that are practically 9-5 and have relatively easy residencies on the order of 50-60 hours/week. If you go to med school, choose heavily based on those criteria.

but 80hrs/week is currently the limit of what you can be made to work during residency.

Oh cmon... You and I both know that isn't enforced and there's no whistleblower protection. But only some residencies (mostly surg) go over the 80 hours/week anyways so...

 

[DrJosephKim]

I know several people who faced similar situations and they are very happy working as PAs. They probably would have done fine in medical school, but they have no regrets. As the healthcare system evolves, the role of a PA (and even an NP or a DNP) may change considerably and even mirror the role of a primary care physician.

My personal philosophy is to place family first.

 

[femmes07]

hi leelee28, I think the best way is to set your priorities first... It's hard to compromise to something that you're not really meant to be doing nor taking 2 priorities at a time... Let's say you have to leave your career, still you're family will remain or in vice versa you need to leave your family and keep your career... It's either way, but what i am trying to say is that you need to face the reality, you know it's really boring to just stay at home and have nothing to do... And there comes along the Financial crisis... Surely, it's really hard to have a family without enough money to survive... Just like most moms, it's better to have a career and a family but you really need to ratio ,i'm telling you it can't be equal... Yet, don't be afraid if you'll lose your career, you're not the only one... But there are lot of better things than that, i'm speaking of beautiful kids and a wonderful husband... :

 

[TheSky]

There is an interesting level of arrogance in the idea that having a uterus makes you the most important person in a child's life once they exist.

I applaud you for this comment. Sometimes I wish I could've been born a man so I wouldn't have to struggle with this idea, which is still very pervasive in our society (unfortunately).

 

[cisopen]

I can't believe I'm reading people say "don't be an MD", especially from people who aren't MDs.

I'm a Mr. Mom and my wife is an MD. Did you know that after residency, MD's can work part-time and be an independent consultant?

I know an anethesiologist who owns her own company and contracts herself out so she works part time at plastic surgery clinics. She does a few boob jobs and such and then stops working for a few days. She makes low $100s but still she really only works six to seven months out of the year. Isn't that much more appealing than being a PA slaving away for some boss? PA's also rarely make over $100K.

Sheesh, do not quit on medical school. You CAN have both (family life and professional life). PA's pay about the same in tuition but do not get the same return on that investment. Remember PAs ALWAYS have a boss. MDs on the other hand, like our family friend, is the CEO of her own little, one-person staffing company.

You will probably have to further define what you want to do with your life. You can't treat patients and change American healthcare on a broad level with an MPH. It sounds like you really need to prioritize and slice off pieces of your life pie.

I don't think its worth giving up on a MD because four years (residency) will be really tough.

 

[smq123]

I can't believe I'm reading people say "don't be an MD", especially from people who aren't MDs.

I'm a Mr. Mom and my wife is an MD. Did you know that after residency, MD's can work part-time and be an independent consultant?

I know an anethesiologist who owns her own company and contracts herself out so she works part time at plastic surgery clinics. She does a few boob jobs and such and then stops working for a few days. She makes low $100s but still she really only works six to seven months out of the year. Isn't that much more appealing than being a PA slaving away for some boss? PA's also rarely make over $100K.

Sheesh, do not quit on medical school. You CAN have both (family life and professional life). PA's pay about the same in tuition but do not get the same return on that investment. Remember PAs ALWAYS have a boss. MDs on the other hand, like our family friend, is the CEO of her own little, one-person staffing company.

You will probably have to further define what you want to do with your life. You can't treat patients and change American healthcare on a broad level with an MPH. It sounds like you really need to prioritize and slice off pieces of your life pie.

I don't think its worth giving up on a MD because four years (residency) will be really tough.

How common are such jobs, though? Is your anesthesiology friend an exception, or are there many such jobs out there?

They CAN work part-time and CAN work as consultants...but is that feasible for someone who is fresh out of residency? Would surgeons be willing to hire a part-time anesthesiologist who is fresh out of training and inexperienced?

It is not fair to offer a solution that is only really open to a few people.

 

[dotdash]

Not sure if the OP is still around, but..

From my perspective (I'm in my forties), I urge you (those of you in your twenties) to consider the long term.

Yes, when kids are small they need a lot of care and raising kids can be a wonderful unforgettable experience.

But life is long.

When you are 45-50, say, and your kids are in HS and college, you will live another 25 useful and productive years. I urge you to plan ahead for those years, too.

My friends who quit their careers to have kids or took jobs that did not challenge them are now looking around saying, "what do I do now?" It's often too late to work back into a rewarding career after your kids are grown.

It's hard to keep all the balls in the air (marriage, kids, career), but don't shortchange the future you.

(Down off my soapbox now)

 

[Neuronix]

My friends who quit their careers to have kids or took jobs that did not challenge them are now looking around saying, "what do I do now?"

What boring people. Go diving or something.

 

[dotdash]

What boring people. Go diving or something.

These are real people with real problems. If those problems don't interest you, then just pass. The knee-jerk ad hominem remarks are almost never useful.

 

[smq123]

When you are 45-50, say, and your kids are in HS and college, you will live another 25 useful and productive years. I urge you to plan ahead for those years, too.

My friends who quit their careers to have kids or took jobs that did not challenge them are now looking around saying, "what do I do now?" It's often too late to work back into a rewarding career after your kids are grown.

It's hard to keep all the balls in the air (marriage, kids, career), but don't shortchange the future you.

For starters, the OP is trying to decide between being a PA and being a physician. A career as a PA is hardly a job that would not "challenge" a person. Many of the PAs that I have worked with love their jobs and find them to be intellectually stimulating and challenging. PAs can assist neurosurgeons and transplant surgeons in the OR, work in the Emergency Department, etc.

It is not as if the OP is trying to decide between being a physician and, say, being a cashier at the local Wal-mart.

These are real people with real problems. If those problems don't interest you, then just pass. The knee-jerk ad hominem remarks are almost never useful.

On the contrary, the point that he is making IS a useful one - there is no need to make your career and your children the ONLY focal points in your life. They, in fact, do not recommend that physicians make medicine the only focal point in their lives, and encourage med students and residents to cultivate hobbies outside of the hospital.

Like you said, it's about balance. Balance between career, family, and your own sanity/hobbies.

 

[Neuronix]

These are real people with real problems.

The problem of having too much free time? What kind of real problem is that?! There's a big world out there. If you're making decent money and you have free time, go play in it!

 

[dotdash]

Like you said, it's about balance. Balance between career, family, and your own sanity/hobbies.

I think this is right, and I take your earlier point as well, about MD vs. PA. I am not saying I know what is right for the OP and whether being a MD or a PA would be equally challenging for her.

I am just saying that the perspective that you have in your twenties is not always the one that serves you well later in life, and it is worth adding the truly long-term (beyond the child-rearing timeline) into the decision-making.

 

[dotdash]

The problem of having too much free time? What kind of real problem is that?! There's a big world out there. If you're making decent money and you have free time, go play in it!

From your other posts, I know that you take your own work seriously, and in that light, your response seems -- odd. People get more from their careers than the passage of time: they get a sense of accomplishment, they get to contribute to their community (especially in a medical career), they gain respect and expertise, and they feel valued. These may or may not be things that you can get from some other part of your life, but the feeling that you cannot get them is, indeed, a problem.

 

[kichuu9]

there's always a dilemma between profession and family life, as cliche goes when you're career life is going well then it would take a toll on your family life and vice versa, like what the others have previously indicated it's about balance because in my personal opinion concentrating too much on only one aspect of your life could take out all the sanity in you, as important as family life is, what i think is best is you also find the venue for yourself in terms of your career life if you feel that the career path you choose would not give way to family life then perhaps its not for you, it's a matter of carefully weighing things

 

[NonTradMed]

Has the OP thought about other health professions such as dentistry and pharmacy? Training is shorter and money is good, plus the hours aren't exhausting. No residencies required (but optional). Just something to throw out.

Everyone have their priorities. Some people focus on career, others on families. To the OP, just be careful not to be so focused on family that you forget your own goals. You may be in a rush to have family now, but you will probably live a very long life without kids, so be sure to pick something that will interest you for the rest of your life. Don't pick a job because it's good for the short term. You may come to regret it later as your life and circumstances change.

 

[Neuronix]

From your other posts, I know that you take your own work seriously, and in that light, your response seems -- odd. People get more from their careers than the passage of time: they get a sense of accomplishment, they get to contribute to their community (especially in a medical career), they gain respect and expertise, and they feel valued. These may or may not be things that you can get from some other part of your life, but the feeling that you cannot get them is, indeed, a problem.

If you read my blog you'll get a few impressions that make my responses slightly less odd. I'll summarize:

1) The concept of balance. I believe American society, especially within professional circles like medicine, absolutely neglects a balanced life and this is detrimental to the community as much as is sloth. What does it mean if your entire neighborhood works 80 hours a week? It means there is no community--they're all in a hospital or an office. Your children barely know who you are, and will likely be sent off to boarding school, considering child care options are extremely limited for high hour employees. I would argue that all of these scenarios are destructive of community and family, and I am a firm believer in a 60 hour, enforced, work week cap for residencies and even attendings.

2) The concept of enjoyment of life at all stages. My father was dying when he was 35. He spent his life as an alcoholic until that point and generally I hated him. My grandfather was a pretty terrible, mean person until he was dying with cancer. Why is it that people only evaluate their lives at death? This concept was reintroduced when as a 5th year MD/PhD student my 35 year old MD/PhD attending and mentor, who had worked in my lab on previous iterations of my project, died suddenly in his sleep. This was a person who had spent his whole life earning top grades and trying to establish himself as a top expert in his field. He was suddenly gone. Did he have regrets? I'll never know. He certainly wasn't happy in what he was doing, but believed strongly in this sense of delayed gratification. Gratification that, for him, will never come. This is one of many reasons why I felt that after working extremely hard for many years, it was time to spend some time enjoying life. Many will never understand this desire, and the "personal leave of absence" is a big red mark on my residency application. Oh well.

3) The concept of the insigificance of most problems. I grew up very poor with mentally ill and abusive parents. Now that I'm older, I can't belive how people squander their opportunities, complain about insignificant issues, and reward antisocial behaviors. Disease, disaster, and poverty are issues that now that I'm in medical school I realize my classmates have never had to deal with. The kids (and they're still kids well into their 30s) I travel with all know mommy and daddy will bail them out and send them a check for whatever problems they have. They travel to third world countries and wonder why a population of practically starving people won't cook vegetarian for them.

So, if I get older and I have too much free time. Where is the problem in that? If you can't find ways to enjoy your lifestyle and your money, you are a boring person who is complaining about nothing in my opinion. Enjoy your life and your health while you have it. That's my perspective, and you're welcome to think status and prestige are the most important things in life. That's the opinion of the privledged, a society I have broken into in my quest for intellectualism and decided I don't like very much. Yes I take my work seriously, only in the sense that I have a true desire to learn and help people within the confines of a balanced life.

PS: In case I didn't make this clear earlier, PM&R, Path, Psych, and FP are pretty easy to get into (don't stress too hard about med school), generally reasonable residencies, and typically controllable lifestyles at completion. All of these specialties average well less than 50 hours a week as an attending according to surveys (and depending on the survey, less than 40 for some!).

 

[driedcaribou]

So, if I get older and I have too much free time. Where is the problem in that? If you can't find ways to enjoy your lifestyle and your money, you are a boring person who is complaining about nothing in my opinion. Enjoy your life and your health while you have it. That's my perspective, and you're welcome to think status and prestige are the most important things in life. That's the opinion of the privledged, a society I have broken into in my quest for intellectualism and decided I don't like very much. Yes I take my work seriously, only in the sense that I have a true desire to learn and help people within the confines of a balanced life.

Thanks for the long and thoughtful post. It is much appreciated.

 

[cisopen]

Sadly, leelee has not logged since May to see everyone's valuable posts.

We can only assume she's withdrawn her MCW acceptance and chosen to apply to PA school.

I think we can all agree that she shouldn't give up on med school just because of 4 potentially difficult residency years. As others have said, path, psych and some FM residencies don't require 110 hour work weeks.

Also, my point about the independent consultant, is there are many many options after medical school, not just 110 work weeks.

Another aquaintance I found out about is an independent pathologist who works part time out of path labs. Sure, you might not get these jobs right out of residency, but definitely within a few years of completing residency.