Family med MD/DO : thoughts on retirement

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scharnhorst

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I'm 39 have been in practice after residency for approx 7 + yrs

Just wanted to see what the thoughts are of other doctors on retirement

DO you want to retire early i.e before 60 ? if so what is your strategy ?

Do you plan to work part-time after 65 as long as you could and why ?

Any senior docs here who are working in their 60s and 70s what they think are limiting factors for them and major challenges?

Thanks

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I'm out in four years (I'll be 57). My strategy...? I've been saving money since I was 22 years old. ;)

I'll keep my license active for a couple of years, but if I haven't done anything significant with it by then, I'll let it expire.
 
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I'm out in four years (I'll be 57). My strategy...? I've been saving money since I was 22 years old. ;)

I'll keep my license active for a couple of years, but if I haven't done anything significant with it by then, I'll let it expire.
nice
I only started saving about 8 yrs ago uggh
On the bright side I would like to work as long as possible even if part-time , I may have no other choice yikes
 
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nice
I only started saving about 8 yrs ago uggh
On the bright side I would like to work as long as possible even if part-time , I may have no other choice yikes

I intend to retire while I'm still young enough to enjoy it.
 
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I'm 39 have been in practice after residency for approx 7 + yrs

Just wanted to see what the thoughts are of other doctors on retirement

DO you want to retire early i.e before 60 ? if so what is your strategy ?

Do you plan to work part-time after 65 as long as you could and why ?

Any senior docs here who are working in their 60s and 70s what they think are limiting factors for them and major challenges?

Thanks
I want to retire before 50. Plan on investing heavy and living a middle class life
 
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I intend to retire while I'm still young enough to enjoy it.
good for you
What do you want to do when you are fully retired , if you don't mind sharing ( forgive me for being intrusive )
 
I want to retire before 50. Plan on investing heavy and living a middle class life
I do that as well , apart for my kid I have not added any expenses since residency

how old are you ?
 
I do that as well , apart for my kid I have not added any expenses since residency

how old are you ?
33, won't be done with residency until 37. Need to save 2.5 million to retire on a humble 100k drawdown per year on the 4% rule. Working my ass off until 50, I think I can pull it off, if not earlier
 
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33, won't be done with residency until 37. Need to save 2.5 million to retire on a humble 100k drawdown per year on the 4% rule. Working my ass off until 50, I think I can pull it off, if not earlier
you seem to have researched it well
which source did you use ?
 
You can retire when your assets surport your lifestyle.

Personally, I plan on doing something till I can’t. I’d get bored, and my wife would shoot me.
 
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You can retire when your assets surport your lifestyle.

Personally, I plan on doing something till I can’t. I’d get bored, and my wife would shoot me.
I'm with you. I quit a job last year and they wanted rid of me as well so I got 6 weeks of basically paid leave. I was miserable. I enjoy working apparently.

Though as I get older I do plan to work less. I have an uncle who is also an FP, age 68. He takes probably a solid 8-10 weeks off per year at this point. My ideal would be that plus working fewer days/week - say 3-3.5.

As background, I'm 35 and been out of residency for 6 years. My new as of last week employer lets us buy into the state retirement plan so I can retire with full benefits at 63.
 
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33, won't be done with residency until 37. Need to save 2.5 million to retire on a humble 100k drawdown per year on the 4% rule. Working my ass off until 50, I think I can pull it off, if not earlier
One of the ideally nice things about retirement is many of your costs should be decreased if not gone. Mortgage payments and child expenses being the two most expensive usually. Take those out of the equation and 100k is pretty comfortable. My wife and I lived on that in residency and subtract out the mortgage and we'd have been pretty happy.
 
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One of the ideally nice things about retirement is many of your costs should be decreased if not gone. Mortgage payments and child expenses being the two most expensive usually. Take those out of the equation and 100k is pretty comfortable. My wife and I lived on that in residency and subtract out the mortgage and we'd have been pretty happy.
With my wife and I children aren't an option, so that makes early retirement that much easier to save for. Couple that with our living in a 120k house in a small city that I should easily be able to pay down and remodel after residency and in an area where my specialty commands double the national average if you're willing to work for it and saving that money becomes so, so much easier. The only thing that is really going to slow me down is my enormous student debt

Added bonus- if all of that 100k is coming from stocks, you're taxed at capital gains rates which are MUCH lower than income. By carefully balancing what you are selling and when, you can pay very little in taxes overall
 
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With my wife and I children aren't an option, so that makes early retirement that much easier to save for. Couple that with our living in a 120k house in a small city that I should easily be able to pay down and remodel after residency and in an area where my specialty commands double the national average if you're willing to work for it and saving that money becomes so, so much easier. The only thing that is really going to slow me down is my enormous student debt

Added bonus- if all of that 100k is coming from stocks, you're taxed at capital gains rates which are MUCH lower than income. By carefully balancing what you are selling and when, you can pay very little in taxes overall
I recalled all of that (well except the wife part, is that new?) but didn't want to be the one to put any of your personal info here.

I'm sure you've been told this, but as soon as you can refinance that loan. My wife went from 6.8% to 2.25% just by suddenly making attending money (assuming your credit score doesn't suck). Cut 2 years off of repayment and still pay around 10% less per month.
 
I'm 39 have been in practice after residency for approx 7 + yrs
Just wanted to see what the thoughts are of other doctors on retirement
DO you want to retire early i.e before 60 ? if so what is your strategy ?
Do you plan to work part-time after 65 as long as you could and why ?
Any senior docs here who are working in their 60s and 70s what they think are limiting factors for them and major challenges?
Thanks

Just turned 30, in practice for a year, fellowship was a year ago.
Based on goals right now, saving $6k a month, with target retirement age 55, with fund of $5 million.
Managed to invest in two side businesses in the hospitality area (2.5% x 2), to hopefully provide some passive income of 2-5k each/month in the next 3-5 years.
But current living situation is: Driving a 10 year old car, living in an apartment for $800 a month, no cable tv, bare minimum internet. Lol. I do however go on vacation 8-10 weeks a year (which what keeps me going).
 
I recalled all of that (well except the wife part, is that new?) but didn't want to be the one to put any of your personal info here.

I'm sure you've been told this, but as soon as you can refinance that loan. My wife went from 6.8% to 2.25% just by suddenly making attending money (assuming your credit score doesn't suck). Cut 2 years off of repayment and still pay around 10% less per month.
So my big fear with that is that I have health issues and could end up not living/working many years post-residency if things don't go well (something that also has pushed me to work hard for early retirement). I'm also basically uninsurable from a life insurance perspective. I'm worried that if I go private, the loans won't be forgiven in the case of death, which will lead to the lender coming after my assets. It's tough because it's a game of chance. Normally life insurance could balance this out. I wonder if I could find a lender with a death/ disability option for an extra fraction of a percent similar to what many credit cards offer.
 
Just turned 30, in practice for a year, fellowship was a year ago.
Based on goals right now, saving $6k a month, with target retirement age 55, with fund of $5 million.
Managed to invest in two side businesses in the hospitality area (2.5% x 2), to hopefully provide some passive income of 2-5k each/month in the next 3-5 years.
But current living situation is: Driving a 10 year old car, living in an apartment for $800 a month, no cable tv, bare minimum internet. Lol. I do however go on vacation 8-10 weeks a year (which what keeps me going).
Married? Kids? I see you conveniently left out the most expensive expenses....lol
 
So my big fear with that is that I have health issues and could end up not living/working many years post-residency if things don't go well (something that also has pushed me to work hard for early retirement). I'm also basically uninsurable from a life insurance perspective. I'm worried that if I go private, the loans won't be forgiven in the case of death, which will lead to the lender coming after my assets. It's tough because it's a game of chance. Normally life insurance could balance this out. I wonder if I could find a lender with a death/ disability option for an extra fraction of a percent similar to what many credit cards offer.
Refinance places (at least ours) still forgives at death. I made very sure to check that. Will do the same on at least total disability (can't remember the exact terms for anything less than that).
 
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Married? Kids? I see you conveniently left out the most expensive expenses....lol

Ah yes, nope, neither of those.. yet Lol
That will likely cause a significant dent in all of my ''plans''...
Although I hope that my passive income can still contribute to my retirement
 
Refinance places (at least ours) still forgives at death. I made very sure to check that. Will do the same on at least total disability (can't remember the exact terms for anything less than that).
Looks like Sallie Mae Smart Option and a few others do. Good I brought it up, made me re-evaluate, and it looks like private might very well be the way to go. Here's to hoping rates stay this low for the next 3.5 years...
 
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So do you guys not have student loan payments? Or were you able to pay off your loans quickly?
 
So my big fear with that is that I have health issues and could end up not living/working many years post-residency if things don't go well (something that also has pushed me to work hard for early retirement). I'm also basically uninsurable from a life insurance perspective. I'm worried that if I go private, the loans won't be forgiven in the case of death, which will lead to the lender coming after my assets. It's tough because it's a game of chance. Normally life insurance could balance this out. I wonder if I could find a lender with a death/ disability option for an extra fraction of a percent similar to what many credit cards offer.

You should be getting insurance anyway. I have about $3M on me (plus one years salary through work), and I paid my student loans off a while back (actually in residency).

If you pay off your loans quick, like 2-3 years, the difference in a few percent interest isn’t that big of a deal.

As VA hopeful did, you can have it pay off in case of death or disability, effectively it’s an insurance policy inside the loan. Usually it’s cheaper to get a straight insurance plan, as long as you can get it.
 
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You should be getting insurance anyway. I have about $3M on me (plus one years salary through work), and I paid my student loans off a while back (actually in residency).

If you pay off your loans quick, like 2-3 years, the difference in a few percent interest isn’t that big of a deal.

As VA hopeful did, you can have it pay off in case of death or disability, effectively it’s an insurance policy inside the loan. Usually it’s cheaper to get a straight insurance plan, as long as you can get it.
Between work and personal, I have 1.5M but my wife is also a physician so it doesn't have to be enough to support the family. Pays off loans, mortgage, schools for both kids with a good bit leftover (but not enough that my wife could stop working).

There was no option in our refinance package to not include death/disability.

If you can get a loan refinanced at say 3% it can often make more sense to take the savings across the loan term and invest them.
 
You should be getting insurance anyway. I have about $3M on me (plus one years salary through work), and I paid my student loans off a while back (actually in residency).

If you pay off your loans quick, like 2-3 years, the difference in a few percent interest isn’t that big of a deal.

As VA hopeful did, you can have it pay off in case of death or disability, effectively it’s an insurance policy inside the loan. Usually it’s cheaper to get a straight insurance plan, as long as you can get it.
I have conditions that make it essentially impossible to get a decent coverage. Like, I'd love to but the most any company would offer was 100k.
 
For those of you that refinanced to low interest rates, do you plan on maximizing the length of time to pay off your debts by only paying the monthly minimum? Obviously in hopes that the extra money you would have used towards loans could be invested with a higher rate of return??
 
Hey if I can find it I'm down, but most jobs require evidence of insurability beyond the 100k level, which I never pass the screens for
Every job I've had offers base of 2X salary up to 500k without any underwriting. Disability 50% salary up to 10k/month same.

Heck, move to SC and I can have you a job next week offer exactly that.
 
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For those of you that refinanced to low interest rates, do you plan on maximizing the length of time to pay off your debts by only paying the monthly minimum? Obviously in hopes that the extra money you would have used towards loans could be invested with a higher rate of return??

Refinanced 6.8 -> 3.75% with autopay. Paid loans within 12 mos, about 250k. Had $50k cash savings (1 yr emergency fund). Liquidated my meager investments 8 mos ago (but kept my 403b because it was free money from my prior job) when the markets were flat and down, although it had good returns within past 24 most, thanks Pres Trump. Doesn't make sense to save if u have debt. Get rid of it (loans) ASAP
 
Every job I've had offers base of 2X salary up to 500k without any underwriting. Disability 50% salary up to 10k/month same.

Heck, move to SC and I can have you a job next week offer exactly that.
Lol, I'll see if I can convince my wife to move. It might just be my experience since most of my jobs have paid around 50-60k base, so 100k was roughly 2x. Bigger salaries within physician groups should naturally have a higher payout. Definitely a game changer for me financial planning wise if I can land a position that can net me at least a 500k payout.
 
Lol, I'll see if I can convince my wife to move. It might just be my experience since most of my jobs have paid around 50-60k base, so 100k was roughly 2x. Bigger salaries within physician groups should naturally have a higher payout. Definitely a game changer for me financial planning wise if I can land a position that can net me at least a 500k payout.
We are desperate for psych here. And if this smallish town doesn't do it for you, we're about 30 minutes from here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...enville/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8a24dcb48e2a
 
any words of advice for me as I will probably will never marry and was never married
I have 1 kid 4 yo
what is the best financial steps ? I 'm doing the usual I max my retirement , I live like a resident and I dont overspend
I have zero student loans and no debt except for a modest car loan

I dont own a house , I have one low rise investment property ( not a great money maker btw I do okay make a little profit but not much I only did it as an experiment I will not gt more properties its time consuming unless you outsource everything and then it cuts into your profit margin)
since my interests are model building, flea markets and book clubs I dont even travel a lot usually within the country to museums or airshows

so my expenses are much less than an average doctor
I feel like married people accumulate more assets though maybe because of tax breaks or whatever
what can a single person like me do more ? thanks

financial planners IMHO are blood sucking parasites every time I approach them I feel like I'm on a date with a gold digger and when I ask family and friends for advice they all say GET MARRIED your wife will help you manage your finances
 
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any words of advice for me as I will probably will never marry and was never married
I have 1 kid 4 yo
what is the best financial steps ? I 'm doing the usual I max my retirement , I live like a resident and I dont overspend
I have zero student loans and no debt except for a modest car loan

I dont own a house , I have one low rise investment property ( not a great money maker btw I do okay make a little profit but not much I only did it as an experiment I will not gt more properties its time consuming unless you outsource everything and then it cuts into your profit margin)
since my interests are model building, flea markets and book clubs I dont even travel a lot usually within the country to museums or airshows

so my expenses are much less than an average doctor
I feel like married people accumulate more assets though maybe because of tax breaks or whatever
what can a single person like me do more ? thanks

financial planners IMHO are blood sucking parasites every time I approach them I feel like I'm on a date with a gold digger and when I ask family and friends for advice they all say GET MARRIED your wife will help you manage your finances

Well, I don't think you should get married.. (atleast not to save money) haha. That won't work.

Also, sounds like the only negative debt you have is that car loan, i'd pay that off. Generally a really poor idea to finance cars as you're putting a big chunk of money into something that depreciates daily.

Getting ride of that rental property sounds like a good idea, investing in a real estate property that lends to business (strip plazas, gas stations etc.), is a better idea. But, real estate is generally a great ''investment'', as you have a physical asset.

To save some $$ on taxes, might consider doing some locums work as a 1099, it'll benefit you in terms of some deductions to lower your tax rate.

I guess just simple things, so far..
 
To save some $$ on taxes, might consider doing some locums work as a 1099, it'll benefit you in terms of some deductions to lower your tax rate.
thanks I did not know that !
Well, I don't think you should get married.. (atleast not to save money) haha. That won't work.
I firmly believe that too but all my close friends , siblings are married and they say "they save a ton on taxes" I did my math myself and with the help of an accountant in all scenarios I see no real difference
 
Getting ride of that rental property sounds like a good idea, investing in a real estate property that lends to business (strip plazas, gas stations etc.), is a better idea. But, real estate is generally a great ''investment'', as you have a physical asset.
thanks , what is opinion on crowd funding when it comes to things like this ?
Is owning gas stations strip plazas etc time consuming in terms of their upkeep ?
I read the "real estate investing" for dummies book yrs ago was good intro for residential properties only
 
thanks , what is opinion on crowd funding when it comes to things like this ?
Is owning gas stations strip plazas etc time consuming in terms of their upkeep ?
I read the "real estate investing" for dummies book yrs ago was good intro for residential properties only

Just like any other property, it requires time. If you do it passively, just lending, its much easier to manage. Sure your reward is less, but your risk, liability and headache is also less (as a small % investor). You just have to find people you trust who are looking for raising funds.
 
thanks I did not know that !

I firmly believe that too but all my close friends , siblings are married and they say "they save a ton on taxes" I did my math myself and with the help of an accountant in all scenarios I see no real difference

The tax benefits of marriage are frequently overblown and overrated.

It depends on what your spouse does and how much he/she earns. Two physician households tend to lose a lot of tax breaks and pay a ton more in taxes each year.
 
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The tax benefits of marriage are frequently overblown and overrated.

It depends on what your spouse does and how much he/she earns. Two physician households tend to lose a lot of tax breaks and pay a ton more in taxes each year.

My wife and I have always used an accountant for our taxes, and each year they would look at both scenarios (filing jointly or filing separately). It always made more sense to file jointly. Granted, she never earned anything close to what I do, and now she's retired, so maybe it would be different in a two-high-earner household.
 
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My wife and I have always used an accountant for our taxes, and each year they would look at both scenarios (filing jointly or filing separately). It always made more sense to file jointly. Granted, she never earned anything close to what I do, and now she's retired, so maybe it would be different in a two-high-earner household.

Yeah, when we crunch the numbers, we owe several thousands of dollars more. Plus, the child tax credits and homeowner tax credits disappear. There's no way around it.
 
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My wife and I have always used an accountant for our taxes, and each year they would look at both scenarios (filing jointly or filing separately). It always made more sense to file jointly. Granted, she never earned anything close to what I do, and now she's retired, so maybe it would be different in a two-high-earner household.

People commonly do not understand that married filing separately is different from filing single. The tax brackets are different, the eligibility for deductions and credits are different, etc. Married filing separately is much worse than filing as married filing jointly or as two singles in the vast majority of cases for two individuals making $100k or more a year. However, you cannot legally file as single if you are married.

Before the Trump era tax code changes, tax brackets jumped up for married couples when both partners made more than about $50-$60k/year. So if you had a housewife or househusband who stayed at home and made nothing or limited amounts, there was a benefit to being married. Alternatively, when two people making $250k came together (top bracket 33% as singles), they would end up in the $500k married bracket, which was the top bracket of 39.6% married. This ended up costing well over $10,000 a year in excess tax based on that factor alone.

Now with the Trump era tax code changes, the married tax brackets are much more forgiving. When two people making $250k come together and get married for example, they start in the $250k 35% single bracket and both end up in the same top married bracket of 35%.

Ok so the marriage penalty is gone you say? Not so fast in our case.

The child tax credit cap is $400k for married filers, $200k for single filers. That's nice, except my partner makes under $200k and our combined income is over $400k. Filing as singles nets us the whole $2000 tax credit there per year per child. Getting married would cost us $2,000 per year per child.

The standard deduction is now up to $12,000. It's $24,000 for married couples. Ok, so our house is in one of our names entirely. That means one of us as single can take the mortgage and property tax deductions plus other itemized deductions (~$40,000) and the other single can take the standard deduction ($12,000). By staying single this is a net deduction gain of $12,000 or almost $4,000 in the pocket per year.

So by staying single, we continue to legally avoid paying Uncle Sam about $6,000/year. This amount would increase if we had more children. Before the Trump era tax changes, we saved about $16,000/year by staying single and not being married.

I know... Everyone thinks I've misunderstood this. Others think our government can't possibly be penalizing people to be married. The reality is: "They don't think it be like it is, but it do". In other words, it's screwed up but it's true. I see no good reason why two working physicians should get married. There are no tax breaks and there could be significant penalties.

Edit: White coat investor recently had an article on this. He points out some other things I missed like my SO can claim head of household and get an even bigger standard deduction.
 
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see no good reason why two working physicians should get married. There are no tax breaks and there could be significant penalties.

Well, I agree that if your only motivation to get married is financial...don't. ;)
 
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How much did you have to spend for those 5%?
Managed to invest in two side businesses in the hospitality area (2.5% x 2), to hopefully provide some passive income of 2-5k each/month in the next 3-5 years.
.
 
Without going too much down the rabbit hole, there are many benefits to marriage that extend outside of the tax code and religion.

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