Failed ABEM oral boards

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MSIVWife

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I just found out I did not pass my oral boards. FWIW I’m a US med school grad, trained at a top residency, and in shock because I’ve passed all my boards in the pass. My score was fairly low and I have no breakdown of the score. I don’t understand how I could’ve scored so low. I prepped for the boards using Okuda and running cases with other colleagues who passed.

Could anyone tell me their experience when you didn’t pass the oral boards? Or if you know of a colleague who didn’t pass, what did they do? I didn’t get much info from ABEM when I called regarding my next steps. TIA

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I just found out I did not pass my oral boards. FWIW I’m a US med school grad, trained at a top residency, and in shock because I’ve passed all my boards in the pass. My score was fairly low and I have no breakdown of the score. I don’t understand how I could’ve scored so low. I prepped for the boards using Okuda and running cases with other colleagues who passed.

Could anyone tell me their experience when you didn’t pass the oral boards? Or if you know of a colleague who didn’t pass, what did they do? I didn’t get much info from ABEM when I called regarding my next steps. TIA

I am so, so sorry. I have nothing to offer from personal experience, except that the folks who didn't wear suits seemed to have a rough time, but I did find the AAEM class extremely helpful. Sometimes it happens. You'll do OK next time, I bet, if you take a class.

Best of luck. It does not reflect on you as a physician.
 
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I just found out I did not pass my oral boards. FWIW I’m a US med school grad, trained at a top residency, and in shock because I’ve passed all my boards in the pass. My score was fairly low and I have no breakdown of the score. I don’t understand how I could’ve scored so low. I prepped for the boards using Okuda and running cases with other colleagues who passed.

Could anyone tell me their experience when you didn’t pass the oral boards? Or if you know of a colleague who didn’t pass, what did they do? I didn’t get much info from ABEM when I called regarding my next steps. TIA


There are so many factors that go into this.
Any of the below could be a problem:

You didn’t verbalize your thought process well so that the examiners could follow.
You missed critical actions (sometimes a TDap could be “critical”)
You didn’t follow their format (vitals, initial assessment, primary survey, intervention, secondary survey, final treatment and disposition)
You had the wrong diagnosis and didn’t realize before the case was over to restart
You missed a important sign on physical exam that would have changed the case.
There are so many other factors...

All of this should be easily correctable with a formal review course, I know of people who liked the AAEM course.

Best of luck!
 
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I am sorry you have to go through this. I can vouch for the AAEM course. Two days of cases that I thought were actually more difficult than the real thing. I don’t think I would have passed without doing the course. It was very different that running cases with someone else, and they gave good feedback.
 
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I am sorry you have to go through this. I can vouch for the AAEM course. Two days of cases that I thought were actually more difficult than the real thing. I don’t think I would have passed without doing the course. It was very different that running cases with someone else, and they gave good feedback.



Ohio acep if u are in Midwest does great course that was quite similar to real deal. I did that and okuda and had no issues on boards. Think that well worth your time and money to take a formal course at this time.

And remember, this is just a game that you have to play.

It’s no reflection on you as a physician, em doc or clinician
 
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Do the AAEM oral board review course. Def worth the price of admission. I would have been screwed if I hadn't taken this course prior to doing my oral boards. I think it works best if you take the course close to your actual exam date. The orals is a game. It's all about the format and the critical actions. You have to learn to play it correctly in order to pass comfortably. Don't sweat it though as I bet you'll pass it next time.
 
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By the way, I think you can request a break down of your score so you can see where you lost the most points.
 
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I'm biased bc I'm an AAEM Oral Boards course instructor, but biases aside, that course is great and I can't recommend it highly enough. The cases are really difficult, more so than the actual board. It does an excellent job of simulating the board structure. It's well worth it, and the course is offered in several different locations shortly before the board exam.
 
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I did well on the written boards and took the AAEM course for oral boards and barely passed the oral boards. Would have failed it had I not taken the course. So take the course and you’ll likely be fine. No worries. Don’t sweat it.
 
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I did well on the written boards and took the AAEM course for oral boards and barely passed the oral boards. Would have failed it had I not taken the course. So take the course and you’ll likely be fine. No worries. Don’t sweat it.

I have no idea how they even score the oral boards, or what a near pass or near fail is. How do you even know the score distribution?
 
I have no idea how they even score the oral boards, or what a near pass or near fail is. How do you even know the score distribution?
It's pretty simple. You have to meet the critical actions. If you don't, you fail. Now, they won't give you the breakdowns of what were the critical actions, but they might say "you missed 3 on this case, 2 on this case" etc. I still remember some of my oral board cases, and took it in 2012. I'm sure this close to taking it a person would remember them pretty well.
 
The critical actions are just such a big mystery. It would be helpful if they would give the test takers the feedback of what they were, so they had an idea how to improve, but then they would never be able to re-use the cases. Courses and review texts guess at what critical actions would be for a given case, but in reality, only ABEM knows what they consider to be "critical actions".
 
A common reason people fail is that they omit an entire section of the exam: ie they never do a complete physical or they never take a complete history, etc on every patient. When you don’t train to check all the boxes off every time, you may develop a pattern that makes you auto fail and you didn’t even know you were doing it. I’m not saying that’s what you did but it is something to consider. Sorry that happened. You should probably invest in one of the courses mentioned above. This is too important to fail twice.
 
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Not sure what the number I got reported to me means, but I used Okuda and passed and felt pretty good exiting the test on exam day. I really think the key to doing well is being rigidly methodical. If you failed once I would probably invest in a course, but for first time test takers, I really think Okuda is the way to go.
 
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I have no idea how they even score the oral boards, or what a near pass or near fail is. How do you even know the score distribution?

There is some score distribution that they give if I recall correctly.
 
Oral boards are an antiquated joke that should have died when EM residency-trained docs came to be.

It’s dogmatic propaganda and silly advertising for hospitals. We should be embarrassed we continue to support a vapid game as a means of measuring specialty expertise and mastery. Myself included.

Hospitals and groups should advertise “EM residency trained” and not “board certified.”

We’re better than that.
 
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Hospitals and groups should advertise “EM residency trained” and not “board certified.”

We’re better than that.
I guess we will agree to disagree.
There are plenty of people that residencies push through that will likely fail the tests because the residencies realize it hurts them in the eyes of the med students to fail people. Lots of other residencies require oral boards, and EM is pretty young. It's really not that hard to pass them once you learn the game, as long as you know the medicine. The practice tests cost less than 1 shift. We have to have something to distinguish us from the non boarded or MLPs.
 
I just found out I did not pass my oral boards. FWIW I’m a US med school grad, trained at a top residency, and in shock because I’ve passed all my boards in the pass. My score was fairly low and I have no breakdown of the score. I don’t understand how I could’ve scored so low. I prepped for the boards using Okuda and running cases with other colleagues who passed.

Could anyone tell me their experience when you didn’t pass the oral boards? Or if you know of a colleague who didn’t pass, what did they do? I didn’t get much info from ABEM when I called regarding my next steps. TIA

My personal opinion is that the ABEM oral boards should be stopped, given it's last right, put in a body bag full of concrete and buried at the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean, never to be spoken of or known to humanity, again. I personally think it's the stupidest test I've ever taken, from kindergarten, up through fellowship and subspecialty board certification. I'm not alone. Many specialties have eliminated their oral boards for these reasons. ABEM is sadly behind the curve on this. Here's why I think this test sucks.

You can absolutely be an extremely smart EM physician, be very smart, know EM top to bottom and back to front and fail this test. No other test we're ever given, is that way. You can have a 98th%ile knowledge base, with equally good clinical skills and fail. The only thing this test tests, is its own quirks and inherently flawed design. Plus, it's a way for ABEM to fund itself.

I'm sorry you failed this obviously worthless test. ABEM should give you your money back. This test is garbage.

Full disclosure, I passed this test. However, on one of the sections, I nearly failed. I did fail the one section, by one scoring method, but with the second scoring method, I passed. Back then, they tested each section with two methods and you have to pass each section by at least one of the scoring methods, or you failed the whole test. In case you failed by one scoring method, they scored it a different way. I'm not sure if they still score it this way (this way quite a few years ago now) but the fact that they ever did, is devastating red flag, as far as I'm concerned. You have so many otherwise, brilliant, hard working, highly trained professionals failing, that you need to build in a second back up way of scoring it, to keep everyone from failing? I'm sorry, but that's flawed testing, not flawed test takers.

This test should never have gotten out of the beta testing phase. I can only imaging the devastation I would have felt if they failed me on this test. I never even came within 200 miles of "failing" a test that I studied for, and yet this one, I almost did. If I had looked at the examiner wrong, coughed during the test, or worn the wrong color tie, I'm sure I would have. And this is after getting a 94% on the written, honors in medical school and doing great in residency per every attending I worked with, and studying literally with a guy that used to administer this oral board exam. I never had one bad clinical evaluation, ever. But ABEM wanted me to think I was "almost not ready" to go out into the world of practicing EM independently, which I had already been doing for a year?

Absolute crap.

I'm sorry you failed this obvious garbage test, @MSIVWife. Do the right thing ABEM. Stop abusing your grads and eliminate this test.

But until that happens, you need to simply dig in, try to find out better how to play ABEM's oral board game, and take it again. That's all you can do. Keep your chin up, you will pass. And the EM oral boards will go on sucking. I'm sorry you had to go through this.
 
I guess we will agree to disagree.
There are plenty of people that residencies push through that will likely fail the tests because the residencies realize it hurts them in the eyes of the med students to fail people. Lots of other residencies require oral boards, and EM is pretty young. It's really not that hard to pass them once you learn the game, as long as you know the medicine. The practice tests cost less than 1 shift. We have to have something to distinguish us from the non boarded or MLPs.
I'm all for exams. I'm all for Board Certification and having a high bar, for excellence. I've invested enough money in them having passed one Cert Exam, one Concert, one Oral Board exam and a Subspecialty Board exam with more to come. But we can do all this without having two board exams, one of which deeply flawed oral board exam. We all know this test is not necessary. You know this test is not necessary. You know this test is not a good measure, and has no place being the penultimate, final arbiter of who's a competent EM physician or not. You know that neither you, I or our patients are better off, having taken this test. You admit right in your post, that the only the the oral board exam offers beyond the written which tests the Medicine, is a "game." Meeting in the Big City to duke it out in one big, tension filled game of Battleship would be just as useful, and more fun. Maybe you disagree, but I think we can all agree ABEM has a significant financial incentive to continue requiring and charging for, this "game."
 
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I guess we will agree to disagree.
There are plenty of people that residencies push through that will likely fail the tests because the residencies realize it hurts them in the eyes of the med students to fail people. Lots of other residencies require oral boards, and EM is pretty young. It's really not that hard to pass them once you learn the game, as long as you know the medicine. The practice tests cost less than 1 shift. We have to have something to distinguish us from the non boarded or MLPs.

Written test is absolutely needed. People need to meet a minimum baseline level of medical knowledge to practice EM.

Oral exam is garbage. Waste of money, time. Very burdensome with the travel. It's just a game.

I passed both on first attempt. They're not that hard.

I don't think eliminating the Oral exam will decrease the overall cost though. They will just increase the cost of the written. The Pediatrics boards is a single written exam and costs $2200.

Board certification absolutely matters. I absolutely agree that residencies push through weak performers. Had a ton of *****s at my "top" program. One failed the written exam.
 
Edit: Some specialities don't require oral boards at all. Previous post listed ABPS link, not ABMS link. Will update when I find that, for which specialties have orals and which don't.
 
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And if you REALLY want to have a "practical" component, in 2018 there is no reason for travel to a centralized location for this. Can simply be added onto the written exam in some Skype type modality.
 
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And if you REALLY want to have a "practical" component, in 2018 there is no reason for travel to a centralized location for this. Can simply be added onto the written exam in some Skype type modality.
I think this is in the works, no?

Part of what I find insufferable about EM is the field's insecurity. If IM and FP don't need oral boards, neither do we. Just trying to prove themselves again. And again. It's annoying.
 
And if you REALLY want to have a "practical" component, in 2018 there is no reason for travel to a centralized location for this. Can simply be added onto the written exam in some Skype type modality.
If you want a "practical" component, isn't that what a three or four year training program where physicians in training can be observed closely by multiple supervising physicians, otherwise known as a "residency," is?

I can't think of a more perfect and devious scheme: Come up with a way to trick post residency candidates to pay an organization thousands of dollars for the pleasure of having one guy in a hotel room ruin your career by voiding 3 years of direct observation by dozens of physicians of your real-life, real-world patient care, with a couple of hours of fake, artificial patients in the Land of Make Believe in a hotel room. And if you choose not to go along, your career is ruined, too.

It's the ultimate scam. I don't know what's more appalling, the fact that this is done to us, or the fact that we don't push back harder against this extortion.

There is absolute ZERO justification for the Emergency Medicine oral board exam.
 
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These medical specialties require only written specialty examinations, no oral boards:
  • Internal Medicine
  • Family Medicine
  • Dermatology
  • Urgent Care
  • Integrative Medicine
  • Hospital Medicine
  • Geriatric Medicine
  • Ophthalmology

IM and FM. The two biggest medical specialties of all. Derm, the most competitive. How do they do it? How do their patients survive? How can they sleep at night, with the guilt of knowing they get to carry on as physicians, never having taken "oral boards"?

!!What will happen when the media find out over 200,000 practicing physicians are roaming the streets among the general population, having taken no oral boards?!!
Urgent Care, integrative medicine, and hospital medicine are not accredited medical specialties.
 
If you want a "practical" component, isn't that what a three or four year training program where physicians in training can be observed closely by multiple supervising physicians, otherwise known as a "residency," is?

I can't think of a more perfect and devious scheme: Come up with a way to trick post residency candidates to pay an organization thousands of dollars for the pleasure of having one guy in a hotel room ruin your career by voiding 3 years of direct observation by dozens of physicians of your real-life, real-world patient care, with a couple of hours of fake, artificial patients in the Land of Make Believe. And if you choose not to go along, your career is ruined, too.

It's the ultimate scam. I don't know what's more appalling, the fact that this is done to us, or the fact that we don't push back harder against this extortion.

There is absolute ZERO justification for the Emergency Medicine oral board exam.

I get ya. I'm not saying you need a "practical" portion, I'm just saying that if you are going to have one, it can easily be done virtually.
 
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Sure, people slip through ALL residency specialties and somehow become practicing physicians. But a silly day of fake patient encounters now deems them "Certified"........Please.

Written, knowledge-based test, absolutely I'm for that. But the oral portion is a game, nothing more or less and in no way measures an Emergency Physicians ability to practice medicine outside the halls of a hotel.
 
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Urgent Care, integrative medicine, and hospital medicine are not accredited medical specialties.
Would having Oral Board exams make them better?
 
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Dude, I'm just saying that those don't have any boards, written or oral, so they should not be on your list. I'm not making an argument for or against. In fact, can you - you - define "integrative medicine"? I can't.
No. But you just made me realize that link was wrong. It's from ABPS, not ABMS. I'll edit when I find the ABMS source.
 
It actually did get it, but as a subspecialty under Psych and also Preventative Medicine.

Homerun, addiction med
It's a subspecialty qualification, a/k/a fellowship, so it is not it's own thing.

And, just a quibble, but psych doesn't have "addiction medicine", but "addiction psychiatry", and I don't know if they are the same thing.

After the grandfather period (which ends in 2019, I believe), I don't know which pathways will lead to board eligibility/CAQ.

ASAM is not (yet) an ABMS primary board, or sponsor of fellowships.

So, addiction medicine - single, and stole second base.
 
Okay. According their individual forums:

Derm does not require oral boards.
IM does not require oral boards.
FM does not require oral boards.

If the two largest physician specialties and the single most competitive specialty don't require oral boards, there's no ----ing way EM needs it. But you know what, I don't know why I'm wasting my time. I already passed this expensive, needless test, 3 other board exams and spent 5 figures on this overwrought nonsense that is endless testing for a lifetime. So, as usual, I'm on here fighting for things that would benefit others, not myself, that the people I'm fighting for don't even care enough to fight for themselves. And the people that have already passed, that could make things better, support screwing the younger generation for no better reason than, "I got screwed, so everyone else should, too." I guess I have no dog in this fight, other than I think the younger generation is getting abused and fleeced and I think it's wrong.
 
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Okay. According their individual forums:

Derm does not require oral boards.
IM does not require oral boards.
FM does not require oral boards.

If the two largest physician specialties and the single most competitive specialty don't require oral boards, there's no ----ing way EM needs it. But you know what, I don't know why I'm wasting my time. I already passed this expensive, needless test, 3 other board exams and spent 5 figures on this overwrought nonsense that is endless testing for a lifetime. So, as usual, I'm on here fighting for things that would benefit others, not myself, that the people I'm fighting for don't even care enough to fight for themselves. And the people that have already passed, that could make things better, support screwing the younger generation for no better reason than, "I got screwed, so everyone else should, too." I guess I have no dog in this fight, other than I think the younger generation is getting abused and fleeced and I think it's wrong.

THIS. Although, I'm a recent ABEM diplomate so haven't begun to rack up an expense account worth of needless recertification costs.

Physicians are so weak when it comes to advocacy compared to other industries.
 
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