All Branch Topic (ABT) Factors making a competitive application for milmatch?

[asdf123g]

I tried searching to find out what makes an applicant more or less competitive in the milmatch but cannot find what I am looking for. Im sure board scores, rotation grads, LOR's, prior service are factored in somehow. ive seen what i was looking for before in the past but i cant find it

What factors are used to rank applicants and what factors carry the most weight?

thanks in advance

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[Perrotfish]

First you need to understand that there are two matches: The Intern year match you do in medical school (which includes the match for straight through contracts) and the Residency match for Interns/GMOs who didn't match straight through. The second match system is also used for the fellowship match.

Last year the match for Intern year/straight through, at least in the Navy, was no longer truly match. There was no computer program involved. The PDs met via teleconference and decided who goes where. What makes you competitive is what makes you competitive in any residency: board scores, personal statement, LORs, research, grades, your preferences, and your personality on your audition rotations/interviews. No one can tell you what's weighted most since its back to being 100% whatever that group of PDs decides. Maybe they'll go back to a real match soon, I'm not exactly in the loop at the moment.

The match for the rest of residency, as well as fellowship, is based on a point system. Highest number of points gets their residency/fellowship choice:

The document for people applying to residencies and fellowships (but not Intern years) is called "JSGMESB Scoring Guidance":

1)Preclinical medicine/Step 1: top 25% gets 2 points,everyone else gets 1
2) Clinical Medicine/Step 2: top 25% gets 3 points, next 25% gets 2 points, everyone else get 1
3) Internship/Step 3: Top 25% get 3 points, everyone else gets 2, 1, or 0 depending on performance. If you've finished intern year (meaning you're applying after a GMO tour) you get an additional 2 point bonus, i.e. max score of 5 and min score of 2.
4) GMO Tour or utilization tour: 1-5 points, depending on performance
5) Potential as a future officer: 1-5 points
6)Prior service: 2 points for prior medical service (Nurse/Corpsman), 1 point for any other military service
7) Research: 4 points for two or more peer reviewd journal articles, 3 points for one peer reviewed journal article, 2 points for two or more poster presentations/in house journal pubs, one point for one poster presentation/in house journal pub. You can also get a bonus point for research during difficult conditions (during Intern year or deployment) but the max score is still 4.
8) Residency: (for fellowship applicants only) maximum of 10 points, maximum of 7 if applying while in residency.

Interesting guidance: According to this sheet, you need a score of at least 10 to get a residency. For an Intern who doesn't have priorservice or research that's actually a pretty high score.

Lessons learned:
1) Prior service is an advantage but is not a huge deal
2) The military cares surprisingly little about your step 1 score, officially
3) The system is designed to make sure people have the opportunity to come back to residency after a GMO tour. A GMO can earn a maximum of 26 points and and the best Interns can only earn 19. Therefore the very best possible intern would have a very hard time getting more points than an average GMO.
4) Similarly, the system is designed to make all but the top candidates finish a utilization tour prior to applying to fellowship.
5) There is an incredible overemphasis on published research
6) Research experience doesn't count unless it ends in a poster presentation or a publication.

To sum up: If you want straight through training, get two publications!

BTW: If this system has changed drastically since 2008 I apologize

 

[danopoo]

I love some of the comments I find on here. I am a military physician who has been practicing primary care as a flight surgeon for 6 years [many programs don’t seem to understand this]. I scored in the top 5% on steps 1 and 3, have multiple published research papers, have the respect of all of my subspecialty colleagues, graduated from a PGY1 internship (didn't match in my program of choice), get over 200 CMEs per year [have made the most of my time as a flight sgn] etc etc. My son became sick with with a rare immune deficiency and I had to put my residency plans on hold. Since he has received his BMT, I have barely gotten a sniff from residency programs I have applied to [CIV and military].

 

[DrMetal]

Highest number of points gets their residency/fellowship choice:

I don't think this is true anymore. The point system as you describe it, might still be in effect, but I think it only serves as guidance, not as a hard instruction. Over the past few years, several PGY1s have been selected for very competitive residencies, despite having no research, no prior service, no GMO time. One thing they did have were strong academic backgrounds (grades, board scores, etc). I don't think it matters how many GMO tours you do; if you don't have a strong academic background, you're not going to match into a competitive residency. The PDs would rather have more academically inclined individuals, as they are more likely to complete the program and do well in it . . . . makes sense.

 

[asdf123g]

I love some of the comments I find on here. I am a military physician who has been practicing primary care as a flight surgeon for 6 years [many programs don’t seem to understand this]. I am a DO who scored in the top 5% on steps 1 and 3, have multiple published research papers (google my name), have the respect of all of my subspecialty colleagues, graduated from Walter Reeds PGY1 Neuro internship (didn't match Rads, so I was put into PGY1 Neuro), get over 200 CMEs per year [have made the most of my time as a flight sgn] etc etc. My son became sick with DOCK8 deficiency and I had to put my residency plans on hold. Since he has received his BMT, I have barely gotten a sniff from residency programs I have applied to [CIV and military]. I would put my clinical acumen up against any PCP with the same amount of patient care experience. Let the pejorative comments start...

so from what im gathering...doing a GMO/FS is an absolute no-no?
Also, why do you think you didnt match into Rads? Im not expert but you sounded very competitive..

 

[HighPriest]

This is also service-dependent. The point system seems to be much more important in the Navy.

 

[danopoo]

so from what im gathering...doing a GMO/FS is an absolute no-no?
Also, why do you think you didnt match into Rads? Im not expert but you sounded very competitive..

Ive been a flight sgn for years, applied to rads early on out of med school, not recently. although i spend alot of time with our rads at my current duty station, PM-r is a much better fit for me as u enjoy pt interaction and msk/neuro

 

[pgg]

I have barely gotten a sniff from residency programs I have applied to [CIV and military].

Don't know what to say about the lack of interest from civilian programs, except to echo Tired's comment that (in general) civilian programs tend to be very welcoming of ex-military applicants.

As for the military side of things ... any PFA failures? Do you have an idea why you didn't match the first time up, with such good numbers? I have heard that for Army/AF, where straight-through contracts for residency is the norm, it can be tough for people who failed to match to get back into that track after GMO time. Good luck.

 

[notdeadyet]

Don't know what to say about the lack of interest from civilian programs, except to echo Tired's comment that (in general) civilian programs tend to be very welcoming of ex-military applicants.

You have an applicant who will be 7 years from internship and 8 years from medical school by the time he starts residency. This is going to be viewed as a potential liability in most programs that aren't primary care (since someone can make the argument they've been functioning as an intern-level PCP for 7 years).

But in more competitive field like Radiology, I am not shocked that he's finding it hard to secure interviews (though he has my sympathies). Being a DO doesn't help. There are about 30 osteopathic slots and 60-100 osteopathic applicants per program. Allopathic programs tend to have a preference for allopathic grads, which is more acute in more competitive fields. About 30% of non-USMD applicants to radiology did not match, and many of those are DOs that are right out of training.

Breaking up residency training is always going to have career risk. This will be amplified the longer you are from training and the more competitive a field you try to match into.

 

[pgg]

Yeah, my eyes must've glazed over the 6 years in GMO-land bit.

I'm a little surprised no .mil program has entertained him. When someone with good numbers and GMO time can't get a spot at an inservice program, it points to other red flags.

 

[j4pac]

Ive been a flight sgn for years, applied to rads early on out of med school, not recently. although i spend alot of time with our rads at my current duty station, PM-r is a much better fit for me as u enjoy pt interaction and msk/neuro

I understand that you want to be anonymous, but it is really is difficult for someone to give you constructive criticism without knowing more details.

I think that you have a legit shot of matching to Rads or PM&R in the military this year. If you don't...we'll see how you do with the handful of civilian PM&R invites you have received. Quite frankly...I am confident enough to say that I would have matched if I would have received one interview last cycle. You currently have three...and even if you have red flags...have other attributes that help you stand apart. I think that you have a good chance of matching if you play your cards right and rock the interviews.

If you don't match civilian...back to the drawing board. Give PM&R one more good shot milmed and civilian (this time with more applications sent out). If you don't match then...I would recommend that you consider lowing the bar for residencies (primary care/surgery).

 

[danopoo]

I was a 4 year GMO and had no issues matching back to my first choice mil program. I have multiple friends who were highly sought in the civ match after doing their whole 4 year obligation in GMO land. And frankly, Radiology isn't all that competitive. Something else is going on with this story.

That's always the remark on here, Nothing else to mention, I came on here for advice so I have no reason to hold anything back.

 

[danopoo]

You have an applicant who will be 7 years from internship and 8 years from medical school by the time he starts residency. This is going to be viewed as a potential liability in most programs that aren't primary care (since someone can make the argument they've been functioning as an intern-level PCP for 7 years).

But in more competitive field like Radiology, I am not shocked that he's finding it hard to secure interviews (though he has my sympathies). Being a DO doesn't help. There are about 30 osteopathic slots and 60-100 osteopathic applicants per program. Allopathic programs tend to have a preference for allopathic grads, which is more acute in more competitive fields. About 30% of non-USMD applicants to radiology did not match, and many of those are DOs that are right out of training.

Breaking up residency training is always going to have career risk. This will be amplified the longer you are from training and the more competitive a field you try to match into.

Im sure many of my colleagues would argue your characterization "'functioning at an intern-level PCP''. Good info though.

 

[danopoo]

Yeah, my eyes must've glazed over the 6 years in GMO-land bit.

I'm a little surprised no .mil program has entertained him. When someone with good numbers and GMO time can't get a spot at an inservice program, it points to other red flags.

See my previous reply on the ''other red flags'' comments. I came on here for advice and have nothing to hide.

 

[danopoo]

Much appreciated.

I understand that you want to be anonymous, but it is really is difficult for someone to give you constructive criticism without knowing more details.

I think that you have a legit shot of matching to Rads or PM&R in the military this year. If you don't...we'll see how you do with the handful of civilian PM&R invites you have received. Quite frankly...I am confident enough to say that I would have matched if I would have received one interview last cycle. You currently have three...and even if you have red flags...have other attributes that help you stand apart. I think that you have a good chance of matching if you play your cards right and rock the interviews.

If you don't match civilian...back to the drawing board. Give PM&R one more good shot milmed and civilian (this time with more applications sent out). If you don't match then...I would recommend that you consider lowing the bar for residencies (primary care/surgery).

 

[danopoo]

I do not wish to remain anonymous, Ive posted on many other message boards while including my name and E-mail address. There are no other ''red flags'' to announce, what other questions do you or any one else have? A couple of programs seemed genuinely interested. Of course the MILMATCH is still pending.

I understand that you want to be anonymous, but it is really is difficult for someone to give you constructive criticism without knowing more details.

I think that you have a legit shot of matching to Rads or PM&R in the military this year. If you don't...we'll see how you do with the handful of civilian PM&R invites you have received. Quite frankly...I am confident enough to say that I would have matched if I would have received one interview last cycle. You currently have three...and even if you have red flags...have other attributes that help you stand apart. I think that you have a good chance of matching if you play your cards right and rock the interviews.

If you don't match civilian...back to the drawing board. Give PM&R one more good shot milmed and civilian (this time with more applications sent out). If you don't match then...I would recommend that you consider lowing the bar for residencies (primary care/surgery).

 

[asdf123g]

How much does being in a leadership position while in medschool help in matching? Is it worth spending the time/stress to be in a leadership position as a medstudent?

What about college leadership? Or does that not have any weight, kind of like HS extracurricular have no weight when applying to medschool.

 

[notdeadyet]

Im sure many of my colleagues would argue your characterization "'functioning at an intern-level PCP''. Good info though.

Sorry, but that isn't a judgment or opinion or a provocation: that was a statement of fact. All GMOs, by definition, are intern-level PCPs.

 

[pgg]

See my previous reply on the ''other red flags'' comments. I came on here for advice and have nothing to hide.

OK - just be aware that 6 years as a GMO (for whatever reason) is itself a flag. It's a long time to be away from GME, regardless of the reason. You have a better explanation for that time than the ones who have been GMOs for a prolonged period because of academic problems. But programs will have reservations about anyone away from residency so long, and why take chances when there's a crowd of people who've only been out of GME for a couple years?

Im sure many of my colleagues would argue your characterization "'functioning at an intern-level PCP''. Good info though.

Not to derail the thread, but but I probably would've argued that characterization during the 3 years when I was a GMO, too. My perspective changed, and I'm not alone in that regard. The honest truth is that GMOs, whether one year in or six years in, are viewed as glorified interns by the vast majority of us on the other side of residency.

I would put my clinical acumen up against any PCP with the same amount of patient care experience.

This statement demonstrates some lack of insight that may extend to other parts of your application. You may have 6 years of experience as a GMO, but your clinical acumen is not comparable to that of any new grad from a primary care residency.


For those struggling to match after a couple attempts as GMOs, the old advice never changes. Some parts of the application are water under the bridge and beyond control. Get some research published - those points are worth as much as points from other sources. If you have something published, get something peer-reviewed published and squeeze out another point or two. Make sure you are going to max out the "potential as an officer" points - this primarily means good fitreps.

Be prepared to recalibrate your goals, and consider alternate specialties you're aiming at. Staff at programs are friendly and encouraging to everyone who applies. It's not that they're two-faced liars about it, but while you may feel confident you have the respect and best wishes of the program staff, you might in fact be their 9th favorite person out of 10 good applicants.

 

[danopoo]

Sorry, but that isn't a judgment or opinion or a provocation: that was a statement of fact. All GMOs, by definition, are intern-level PCPs.

didnt really take it as such. Lots of pejorative comments come from respondents on here. Im probably simply being a little sensitive. No harm no foul

 

[danopoo]

OK - just be aware that 6 years as a GMO (for whatever reason) is itself a flag. It's a long time to be away from GME, regardless of the reason. You have a better explanation for that time than the ones who have been GMOs for a prolonged period because of academic problems. But programs will have reservations about anyone away from residency so long, and why take chances when there's a crowd of people who've only been out of GME for a couple years?




Not to derail the thread, but but I probably would've argued that characterization during the 3 years when I was a GMO, too. My perspective changed, and I'm not alone in that regard. The honest truth is that GMOs, whether one year in or six years in, are viewed as glorified interns by the vast majority of us on the other side of residency.



This statement demonstrates some lack of insight that may extend to other parts of your application. You may have 6 years of experience as a GMO, but your clinical acumen is not comparable to that of any new grad from a primary care residency.


For those struggling to match after a couple attempts as GMOs, the old advice never changes. Some parts of the application are water under the bridge and beyond control. Get some research published - those points are worth as much as points from other sources. If you have something published, get something peer-reviewed published and squeeze out another point or two. Make sure you are going to max out the "potential as an officer" points - this primarily means good fitreps.

Be prepared to recalibrate your goals, and consider alternate specialties you're aiming at. Staff at programs are friendly and encouraging to everyone who applies. It's not that they're two-faced liars about it, but while you may feel confident you have the respect and best wishes of the program staff, you might in fact be their 9th favorite person out of 10 good applicants.

Again, all valid points. I do have 6 pubs in peer reviewed journals. And I do realize that being a GMO for this period of time is a red flag. Very much appreciate your time.

 

[pgg]

You sound like a strong applicant. Good luck!

 

[asdf123g]

How much does being in a leadership position while in medschool help in matching? Is it worth spending the time/stress to be in a leadership position as a medstudent?

What about college leadership? Or does that not have any weight, kind of like HS extracurricular have no weight when applying to medschool.

^bump

 

[pgg]

How much does being in a leadership position while in medschool help in matching? Is it worth spending the time/stress to be in a leadership position as a medstudent?

I would guess not very much.

I wouldn't (and didn't) do any of that. But some people like that sort of thing for its own sake. I've always thought student government to be kind of a weird phenomenon, like playing at being in charge of something but having no actual power, responsibility, or accountability.

Specialty clubs may be useful (and fun), but 95% of that usefulness is to the student who gets some extra exposure to the specialty to help decide whether or not to become that kind of doctor. The other 5% of benefit might be the opportunity to network and get a little face time with certain people to grease the wheels for future LORs, which do matter.

If you enjoy that sort of thing, have at it, everyone needs a hobby, but I certainly wouldn't let any academic effort be distracted by it.

What about college leadership? Or does that not have any weight, kind of like HS extracurricular have no weight when applying to medschool.

I would guess not at all. Maybe if it was ROTC or a service academy leadership position.