Easy MD -> MD/PhD transition schools?

[An Yong]

Hi,

Does anyone know of any schools where its fairly easy to transfer from md to md/phd after your 1st or 2nd year?

Thanks

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[Gfunk6]

I think as a general rule, it is easier in schools which do not have an MSTP but a full- or partially-funded MD/PhD program. In MSTP schools it is somewhat more difficult.

 

[uproarhz]

I think as a general rule, it is easier in schools which do not have an MSTP but a full- or partially-funded MD/PhD program. In MSTP schools it is somewhat more difficult.

Why is that? Do you know of a reason?

 

[Gfunk6]

This is just my experience on the interview trail. MSTP programs tend to have more applicants and are therefore more competitive. Once you complete years 1 and 2 of medical school there is not THAT much you can do to beef up your application compared to incoming undergraduates other than a summer or two of research. You certainly can't re-take the MCAT or re-calculate your undergrad GPA.

It is my experience that some schools with fully- or partially-funded MD/PhD programs have a lot more entries into their programs from MS-Is and MS-IIs. Possibly because they are less competitive or because they would rather not pay money from the start simply to see a student drop before the PhD begins. In other words, they are hedging their bets.

 

[oasis786]

Hi,

Does anyone know of any schools where its fairly easy to transfer from md to md/phd after your 1st or 2nd year?

Thanks

Supposedly it's pretty easy at Harvard. I was told ~90% of those who try end up getting funding.

The route you must take to transfer there is pretty much independent of the md/phd program though. I was told that one would have to apply to the graduate school separately after two (or one) years of med school, complete the PhD, and THEN apply for the MD/PhD funding for the final two years of med school.

 

[An Yong]

Sounds like it would be best if you apply straight for md/phd. My problem is that I'm not entirely sure I want to make such a commitment (don't want to drop out half way). Also, not sure what my chances are at getting into an md/phd, my numbers are good but I have so little research experience (only 1 semester + 1 summer).

Does anyone know of any programs that might be able to consider someone with good numbers but little research experience?

Thanks

 

[oasis786]

Sounds like it would be best if you apply straight for md/phd. My problem is that I'm not entirely sure I want to make such a commitment (don't want to drop out half way). Also, not sure what my chances are at getting into an md/phd, my numbers are good but I have so little research experience (only 1 semester + 1 summer).

Does anyone know of any programs that might be able to consider someone with good numbers but little research experience?

Thanks

Research experience is pretty much the primary consideration when looking at applicants for MD/PhD, although decent numbers are certainly an expectation. Your research experience seems a little on the shorter end in terms of time. The MD/PhD adcoms want to make sure you have had enough research experience to know that you really love it, and will be able to stay the course. That being said, if your research experiences afforded the opportunity to think independently/design your own experiments, contribute to an abstract or publication, etc., you may still have a decent chance.

Of course, once you apply to an MD/PhD program and are rejected, you are supposed to be considered for regular MD. However, this isn't always the case, and I'm sure you've read the numerous threads on here that discuss this. Sometimes, applying MD/PhD can hurt your chances for regular MD.

I think your approach (based on your original post), given that you also are not 100% sure about MD/PhD, might be a wise one - apply regular MD and apply internally if you still think MD/PhD is a good choice. In that case, you would just have to start meeting with the MD/PhD program director and staff once you get into a MD program and start figuring out what you can do to give yourself the best shot at an internal application. Most likely this would involve some research during your first two summers and a good letter from a PI supporting your application. Good luck!

 

[Gfunk6]

Sounds like it would be best if you apply straight for md/phd. My problem is that I'm not entirely sure I want to make such a commitment (don't want to drop out half way).

MSTPs have eliminated payback. If you drop, you don't have to repay the school or NIH.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

MSTPs have eliminated payback. If you drop, you don't have to repay the school or NIH.

Hmmm... What was the primary motivation for doing this? Getting rid of the payback that is.

 

[karmon]

i know of three people who have done it at Washu.....one of them being one of my best friends.....he never had any research experiences in undergrad and decided to do a research elective during the spring of his 1st year. decided he enjoyed it and worked in the lab during the summer because he needed money. ended up working like 90 hours a week during the summer (he was nuts, but he loved what he was doing). realized he wanted to do research and spoke to the dean about it. got great recommendations from his mentor that he worked for during the summer. although an interview is still required he ended up getting interviewed by his research advisor from his elective previous year and they both ended up just laughing the whole time.....now he's in their program and getting paid a pretty nice stipend that goes a long way in the midwest. i think that it depends on the school too, especially if they have money to throw around like washu. mostly top research school have backdoor ways for the committed students and can easily find funding for you, including mstp grants.

previously mentioned is that a good portion of harvard students do this....this is true. especially for their HST class where around half of the students end up pursuing md/phd. don't know if they are granted mstp granting, but they all easily find funding. i think because HST is strictly for research minded students they sort of anticipate this.

 

[Neuronix]

Hmmm... What was the primary motivation for doing this? Getting rid of the payback that is.

The NIGMS (the providers of the MSTP cash) forbids it. They don't want you to feel trapped into something you don't want you to be doing, and that means you can leave at any point and not have to payback. The NIGMS is really going to bat for MSTP students, so that's why I highly recommend attending a MSTP school.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

On a tangential note, could I still technically refer to myself as a student in a medical scientist training program even though it isn't NIGMS funded, or is that trademarked?

 

[JD428]

Vanderbilt has traditionally been quite open to M1 and M2 students who want to join the program. I imagine this will continue, as the MSTP just got a fairly substantial increase in NIH funding, as well as some private money set aside for two extra MSTP spots per year. I think that the program is actually going to start reserving a few spots each year for med students who want to join after doing research through the new "Emphasis" program.

 

[Neuronix]

On a tangential note, could I still technically refer to myself as a student in a medical scientist training program even though it isn't NIGMS funded, or is that trademarked?

There's been threads about this before. Certain DO/PhD programs call themselves Medical Scientist Training Programs, confusing some applicants and posters here. There are no DO/PhD NIGMS MSTPs (or even fully-funded programs for that matter). However, there's no trademark. There's nobody who's going to come after them for using the term. Nevertheless, I always ask that to avoid confusion on this forum that only the NIGMS MSTPs are called MSTPs. Of course you are being trained to become a medical scientist, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you not to use the term. I'm just trying to present an unbaised opinion.

 

[pathdr2b]

On a tangential note, could I still technically refer to myself as a student in a medical scientist training program even though it isn't NIGMS funded, or is that trademarked?

Well I'm sure of any some of the regulars on this thread had their way, the only REAL MD/PhD's would be NIGMS fully supported, MSTP MD/PhD grads from top 10 schools!

PhD then MD = Medical Scientist

MD then PhD = Medical Scientist

DO then PhD = Medical Scientist

PhD then MD/PhD = Super Duper Medical Scientist

 

[SaltySqueegee]

... and this is definitely not trademarked:

Illegitimate Bastard MSTP Child...

I think that should suffice.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

... and this is definitely not trademarked:

Illegitimate Bastard MSTP Child...

I think that should suffice.

I'll be the love child of NIGMS that won't be recognized.

Give me funding dammit, give me funding!

 

[bullhorn]

There's been threads about this before. Certain DO/PhD programs call themselves Medical Scientist Training Programs, confusing some applicants and posters here. There are no DO/PhD NIGMS MSTPs (or even fully-funded programs for that matter). However, there's no trademark. There's nobody who's going to come after them for using the term. Nevertheless, I always ask that to avoid confusion on this forum that only the NIGMS MSTPs are called MSTPs. Of course you are being trained to become a medical scientist, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you not to use the term. I'm just trying to present an unbaised opinion.

You are wrong about the DO/PhD programs. UMDNJ-SOM has a fully funded program...in that I mean med school tuition remission and stipend all years. I know because I was accepted. So, yes no NIGMS MSTPs...but definitely at least 1 fully funded program...which isn't that bad considering there are only 20 schools. I agree with Path..if you have a medical degree (MD or DO) and a phd in a basic science no one can stop you from calling your self a medical scientist.

 

[Neuronix]

I see. Could you give me a link to their site that says they are offering full funding for their DO/PhD students? Are they offering it to all students in the program?

 

[bullhorn]

I see. Could you give me a link to their site that says they are offering full funding for their DO/PhD students? Are they offering it to all students in the program?

They only have 2 spots available a year. I believe I sent the link on the pre-mstp threads. But I'll search for it again. I originally applied thinking I wouldnt get funding. But, my interview was very clear and the paperwork was very clear and the offer was very clear : tuition remission for all years, stipend for all years (m1 and m2 was less than the remaining grad and m3 and m4 years) I'll post when i find it. Or search my previous posts..cause I am POSITIVE i have said this before and posted a link.

 

[bullhorn]

Sorry i thought my response did not post...so i had to rewrite it. And lo and behold i saw a similar post above the new one. I have erased it.

 

[bullhorn]

Ok so I couldn't find a link that said anything about the financial stuff directly. And I searched my posts and no link. So my bad there. I do have a one sheet, 2 page flier that was given to me at my interview and it clearly says:

"The joint DO/PhD program is a unique interdepartmental program between the departments of Cell Biology and Molecular Biology intended to prepare future physicians anticipating careers in biomedical research or teaching. All Do/PhD cadnidates receive an annual stipend and a tuition waiver for each year of participation in the combined degree program."

In my interview, I asked the specifics and I was told I would receive a 6500 stipend m1 and m2, 22,500 for grad years and 8500 for m3 and m4. And tuition remission all years. This is actually a bit more than umdnj-njms md/phd students get and on par with Robert Wood. It is better than Drexel's which has no stipend during med school years at all. Short of scanning this document and sending it as a jpg or you calling the office....I can't provide any more information that it is funded. They accept 2 students a year.

 

[pathdr2b]

"The joint DO/PhD program is a unique interdepartmental program between the departments of Cell Biology and Molecular Biology intended to prepare future physicians anticipating careers in biomedical research or teaching.

I can certainly confirm that DO/PhD programs are fully funded since I recently met a resident at NIH who had her program fully funded by UMDNJ. And she's NOT a URM either.

 

[bullhorn]

I can certainly confirm that DO/PhD programs are fully funded since I recently met a resident at NIH who had her program fully funded by UMDNJ. And she's NOT a URM either.

Yes, I know who you are talking about. She graduated in 2003 as the first student to finish the DO/PhD program and her thesis was done in conjunction with PI's at the NIH...and is now doing postdoc work there in conjunction with a residency at VCU. They talked about her alot during my interview...because she is also a woman. And yup she is not a URM at all. Dr. Kathryn Rizzo I believe. She is actually considered a success story for NIH:

http://www.training.nih.gov/SStory_PreD_IRTA.asp

http://www.pathology.vcu.edu/education/programs/resident/directory.html

So apparently she had a thesis advisor lined up at UMDNJ-SOM..he suggested she do a NIH summer research opp and she winded up staying there to do her dissertation research before coming back to finish medical school. cool.