Down Syndrome

[xnfs93hy]

This has nothing to do with my previous posts in this forum and this thread is very serious and I hope to get a good discussion out of this.



I honestly believe that people with down syndrome are very interesting and are the coolest people on Earth. I cannot explain why I think people with it are interesting, it is just one of those things you can't put into words. I volunteer at a hospital, so I was waiting on line to grab something to eat at the hospital cafeteria. As you can imagine it was a long line, all of a sudden this kid with downs starts talking to me and I went along with the conversation. It wasn't a very detailed conversation but he told me that he just had surgery. He asked me what I do, I said I was a volunteer, etc. I don't know how old the boy was I would say maybe 12, he was with his mother, so after that 2-3 minute conversation I just bought my food and ate outside and went on with the rest of my day.

My point is that people with Downs Syndrome and other disorders are almost always stared at because they look different than you and I and I think its terrible because they are the nicest people. Sorry, I realize I keep calling them "those people". Does anyone here think the way I do?

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[footballrules]

This has nothing to do with my previous posts in this forum and this thread is very serious and I hope to get a good discussion out of this.



I honestly believe that people with down syndrome are very interesting and are the coolest people on Earth. I cannot explain why I think people with it are interesting, it is just one of those things you can't put into words. I volunteer at a hospital, so I was waiting on line to grab something to eat at the hospital cafeteria. As you can imagine it was a long line, all of a sudden this kid with downs starts talking to me and I went along with the conversation. It wasn't a very detailed conversation but he told me that he just had surgery. He asked me what I do, I said I was a volunteer, etc. I don't know how old the boy was I would say maybe 12, he was with his mother, so after that 2-3 minute conversation I just bought my food and ate outside and went on with the rest of my day.

My point is that people with Downs Syndrome and other disorders are almost always stared at because they look different than you and I and I think its terrible because they are the nicest people. Sorry, I realize I keep calling them "those people". Does anyone here think the way I do?

I write articles for a living (night job) about health conditions such as Downs syndrome. You will see variance in the phenotype from one person that has Downs syndrome to the next person you see with Downs syndrome. One of the best things you can do is just be a friend when a person with Downs syndrome is talking or wants to play. Research has shown that persons with Down syndrome tend to be the happiest people.

My advice to you, and everyone else that will be a doctor, is to alway reference a patient as "Mr. or MR. Smith with cancer "..." and not the cancer patient in room 108.

I'm working to develop a career so I can talk with families with conditions just like Down syndrome.

 

[Tired]

My advice to you, and everyone else that will be a doctor, is to alway reference a patient as "Mr. or MR. Smith with cancer "..." and not the cancer patient in room 108.

I can never remember the room number (and usually can anyone else on the team) so it just becomes much easier to refer to patients as "Knee replacement guy" or "infected scrotum kid". If they're there a while, you can always give them catchy nicknames like "Yap-tastic" (he talked a lot but was a really cool dude, ergo combination of yap and fantastic) or "Busted" (not because of his injury, but because he had a cop with him at all times).

Makes life a lot easier when your whole service turns over every few days. Interjects a bit of humor in an otherwise crappy job.

 

[RemiJP]

Babysitting for a toddler with Down Syndrome when I was in high school led me to study speech-language pathology in grad school. I'd love to speak with him again (he's a teenager now) and let him know that he inspired me! Not sure what your plans are, but if you're interested in working with people with disabilities specifically, you might want to learn more about careers in speech-language pathology, physical therapy, or occupational therapy.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Babysitting for a toddler with Down Syndrome when I was in high school led me to study speech-language pathology in grad school. I'd love to speak with him again (he's a teenager now) and let him know that he inspired me! Not sure what your plans are, but if you're interested in working with people with disabilities specifically, you might want to learn more about careers in speech-language pathology, physical therapy, or occupational therapy.

I'm not 100% sure but it definitely interests me a lot. That is so awesome that he inspired you

 

[malfee]

My point is that people with Downs Syndrome and other disorders are almost always stared at because they look different than you and I and I think its terrible because they are the nicest people. Sorry, I realize I keep calling them "those people". Does anyone here think the way I do?

I agree that these people should be treated with respect, however, to suggest that people avoid staring at them is asking a lot. Most people are not exposed to people with such conditions on a daily basis, so it would be nothing more than natural curiosity to observe them for a longer period than a "normal" individual.

As I said, respect should be given to everyone, but I feel we are all becoming conditioned, or rather guilted into being superficially politically-correct. Say what you want to say.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I agree that these people should be treated with respect, however, to suggest that people avoid staring at them is asking a lot. Most people are not exposed to people with such conditions on a daily basis, so it would be nothing more than natural curiosity to observe them for a longer period than a "normal" individual.

As I said, respect should be given to everyone, but I feel we are all becoming conditioned, or rather guilted into being superficially politically-correct. Say what you want to say.

I agree with that.

 

[footballrules]

Babysitting for a toddler with Down Syndrome when I was in high school led me to study speech-language pathology in grad school. I'd love to speak with him again (he's a teenager now) and let him know that he inspired me! Not sure what your plans are, but if you're interested in working with people with disabilities specifically, you might want to learn more about careers in speech-language pathology, physical therapy, or occupational therapy.

Another career option, if you want to work the family and individual, is genetic counseling.

 

[ertraumashield]

I can never remember the room number (and usually can anyone else on the team) so it just becomes much easier to refer to patients as "Knee replacement guy" or "infected scrotum kid". If they're there a while, you can always give them catchy nicknames like "Yap-tastic" (he talked a lot but was a really cool dude, ergo combination of yap and fantastic) or "Busted" (not because of his injury, but because he had a cop with him at all times).

Makes life a lot easier when your whole service turns over every few days. Interjects a bit of humor in an otherwise crappy job.

I know, same thing, even tho I was/am I clinical volunteer I couldn't remember the pt.s name or face to save my life so I'd just call she/he the "guy with oral cancer" or "the drug addict" even tho I may have done rounds an hour earlier, I couldn't remember.

 

[saveourpens]

People with downs shouldn't be treated any less than the rest of us, but I don't understand what would warrant someone to say that someone with any type of genetic defect is somehow "cool" or more "interesting" than the rest of us. Really, I think those who actually have downs would find that offensive.

 

[ertraumashield]

People with downs shouldn't be treated any less than the rest of us, but I don't understand what would warrant someone to say that someone with any type of genetic defect is somehow "cool" or more "interesting" than the rest of us. Really, I think those who actually have downs would find that offensive.

I agree with you!

 

[jenegie]

My daughter has Down syndrome. I am glad that we are having this discussion. I just wanted to give a couple of my thoughts. I too think that people with Down syndrome are pretty cool but would never have realized just how cool they could be if it were not for my daughter. I love that you are interested in being more involved with people with disabilities. A couple of myths that I wanted to dispel are that people with Down syndrome are always happy. They are not. There is a very high incidence of depression in people with Down syndrome. A society that stares and thinks of them as being different contributes to a feeling of isolation that can lead to depression. I think it is important to remember that they are just people. They have the same thoughts and emotions as anyone else but may express it differently. I also wanted to mention that there is no s at the end of Down. It is also a pet peeve of people in the Down syndrome community to hear people with Down syndrome as having "Downs" or being "Downs". I guess my point is, people are people no matter how many chromosomes they have. I love my daughter for the things that make her an individual. I am glad that you are taking an interest in working with people with Down syndrome because the impact that you can have on making them feel more accepted can be huge. Thanks.

 

[AlternateSome1]

My daughter has Down syndrome. I am glad that we are having this discussion. I just wanted to give a couple of my thoughts. I too think that people with Down syndrome are pretty cool but would never have realized just how cool they could be if it were not for my daughter. I love that you are interested in being more involved with people with disabilities. A couple of myths that I wanted to dispel are that people with Down syndrome are always happy. They are not. There is a very high incidence of depression in people with Down syndrome. A society that stares and thinks of them as being different contributes to a feeling of isolation that can lead to depression. I think it is important to remember that they are just people. They have the same thoughts and emotions as anyone else but may express it differently. I also wanted to mention that there is no s at the end of Down. It is also a pet peeve of people in the Down syndrome community to hear people with Down syndrome as having "Downs" or being "Downs". I guess my point is, people are people no matter how many chromosomes they have. I love my daughter for the things that make her an individual. I am glad that you are taking an interest in working with people with Down syndrome because the impact that you can have on making them feel more accepted can be huge. Thanks.

The term "Down's Syndrome" is eponymous, and named after John Langdon Down. While "Down" syndrome is frequently used, it is actually less correct than Down's Syndrome. This is equivalent to Alzheimer's Disease.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I only want to work in Pediatrics though. What career options would I have (just name a few if you can so I can research them) if I wanted to work JUST with special needs children.

Thanks.

 

[45408]

I only want to work in Pediatrics though. What career options would I have (just name a few if you can so I can research them) if I wanted to work JUST with special needs children.

Thanks.

Pediatric neurology would probably expose you to a lot of what interests you.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Pediatric neurology would probably expose you to a lot of what interests you.

I agree.

I have also looked into Ped. Ortho surgery but that doesn't exactly flow with my subject. Just putting it out there. Another random one is Pedi Rehab.

Aside from neurosurgery. Are there any surgical specialties where you would see a lot of patients with special needs?

Any info at all will be helpful. I never heard about Genetic Counseling until it was posted here.

 

[Terpskins99]

I have also looked into Ped. Ortho surgery but that doesn't exactly flow with my subject. Just putting it out there. Another random one is Pedi Rehab.

Aside from neurosurgery. Are there any surgical specialties where you would see a lot of patients with special needs?

Any info at all will be helpful. I never heard about Genetic Counseling until it was posted here.

Your best bet would probably be either child neurology or child psychiatry. In both instances, you would have the opportunity to develop long term relationships with special needs children as you monitor their development over a period of many years. The bulk of child neurologists patients are children with seizure disorder. Child psychiatrists treat much more than mental ******ation, of course... often children with ADHD, autism and depression. Peds rehab is another good choice. And of course, general pediatricians and family medicine doctors will have a fair share of special needs kids.

Pretty much all the pediatric surgical specialties will have a decent volume of children with developmental delays. Of them, I would guess that pediatric ophthalmology would have be the most likely to continue to follow up with the same child on a regular basis (since many special needs kids require specialized eye care).

The next most likely to operate on special needs kids I assume would be pediatric general surgeons (who will address digestive tract issues).

I am doing a rotation in peds neurosurgery in a few weeks so I can let you know about that experience in more detail. As I understand it, peds neurosurgery is a lot of cranial trauma repair (eg skull fracture/bleeding), ventricular shunt insertion (tube placed into your head to relieve abnormal fluid pressure), spine surgery (eg spina bifida) and the occasional brain tumor.

Genetic counseling is a specialty where you perform tests on future parents and determine how likely they are to give birth to a child with a genetic defect (as well as educating the parents as to what to expect should they proceed with delivery). This has little to do with actual treatment of special needs children and more with helping to decide whether or not a parent should go through with the pregnancy.

 

[bjolly]

Developmental pediatrics would be a good choice as well.

 

[footballrules]

Your best bet would probably be either child neurology or child psychiatry. In both instances, you would have the opportunity to develop long term relationships with special needs children as you monitor their development over a period of many years. The bulk of child neurologists patients are children with seizure disorder. Child psychiatrists treat much more than mental ******ation, of course... often children with ADHD, autism and depression. Peds rehab is another good choice. And of course, general pediatricians and family medicine doctors will have a fair share of special needs kids.

Pretty much all the pediatric surgical specialties will have a decent volume of children with developmental delays. Of them, I would guess that pediatric ophthalmology would have be the most likely to continue to follow up with the same child on a regular basis (since many special needs kids require specialized eye care).

The next most likely to operate on special needs kids I assume would be pediatric general surgeons (who will address digestive tract issues).

I am doing a rotation in peds neurosurgery in a few weeks so I can let you know about that experience in more detail. As I understand it, peds neurosurgery is a lot of cranial trauma repair (eg skull fracture/bleeding), ventricular shunt insertion (tube placed into your head to relieve abnormal fluid pressure), spine surgery (eg spina bifida) and the occasional brain tumor.

Genetic counseling is a specialty where you perform tests on future parents and determine how likely they are to give birth to a child with a genetic defect (as well as educating the parents as to what to expect should they proceed with delivery). This has little to do with actual treatment of special needs children and more with helping to decide whether or not a parent should go through with the pregnancy.

Yeah, that is mostly true. For a GC who works in a OB/GYN clinic (or department), that is basically all they would do.

I'm actually working on developing a career as a GC. I don't want to work in a OB/GYN clinic. I want to work in a peds department or a metabolic disorder clinic. This way I can work with the clinical geneticist with diagnosing the patient and also help out with management plans (working together as a team), and also seeing patients referalls from other departments (all depends on where I would get a job). I've spent time shadowing a GC and a CG, so I know what limits I have and what I can do. However, I might also just spend 18 months and become a nurse and get certified in the area of genetics and work in a genetics department (Cinicantti *spelling* Children's Hospital has this)....this way I could bill for my services.

When I do get a job as a GC (If I even get admitted to graduate school), I want to also help educate patients about conditions they have if there is a genetic component to the condition (I already work as a medical writer, so I feel good about doing this already).

 

[xnfs93hy]

Shifting the conversation over a bit here.
----------------

Another question (Sorry, I know I post a million of these a day):

As some of you know I am in high school now. I know no one lives where I do so it isn't like you will be able to point out places I can check out but do you think it would be possible to volunteer/work/etc. at some type of place (after school thing, tutoring place, whatever..) that caters primary to children with special needs/handicapped and not just strictly down syndrome children? If this makes any sense.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Anyone?

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm not really sure how volunteering at those kinds of places works. I know that if you want a job there, you need a bunch of certification, but volunteering is another matter. I've forgotten exactly where you live, but if you're in a city, there should be some schools for blind and/or deaf children around that might want someone to help watch the kids or something. You'll probably have to get a-Googling to see if there's anywhere near you that suits what you're looking for and cold-call to see if they take volunteers.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I'm not really sure how volunteering at those kinds of places works. I know that if you want a job there, you need a bunch of certification, but volunteering is another matter. I've forgotten exactly where you live, but if you're in a city, there should be some schools for blind and/or deaf children around that might want someone to help watch the kids or something. You'll probably have to get a-Googling to see if there's anywhere near you that suits what you're looking for and cold-call to see if they take volunteers.

I think there is a school close by which is technically not in my town. Watching kids sounds very boring, I want interaction . I guess I'll have to look around. I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey. You can Google Jersey shore medical center, I live around there.

 

[Terpskins99]

I think there is a school close by which is technically not in my town. Watching kids sounds very boring, I want interaction . I guess I'll have to look around. I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey. You can Google Jersey shore medical center, I live around there.

I'm sure there are many special education schools/activity groups that meet throughout New Jersey. You'll have to do some searching on the web to find them and take the initiative to contact them (via phone or email).

In the meantime, I found this online:http://www.arcnj.org/html/contact_us.html

The Arc of New Jersey is an advocacy group that tries to raise public awareness about issues concerning mental illness. They also have fund raisers where you'd definitely have an opportunity to interact with special needs children. Give them a call and see if they can point you in the right direction.

If you're thinking of going into pediatrics, your best bet would be to shadow a pediatrician (ideally, a pediatric neurologist). Just search for one near where you live, call them up and ask if they'd be ok with you shadowing (make sure to dress appropriately! slacks, button up shirt and tie... no jeans/sneakers).

 

[kdburton]

I only want to work in Pediatrics though. What career options would I have (just name a few if you can so I can research them) if I wanted to work JUST with special needs children.

Thanks.

Haha I'm pretty suure I last read one of your posts you ONLY WANTED to work in a specialty where you make over $1M and you were talking neurosurgery, ortho, etc.. First of all your chances of that happening are slim (none) to none... But either way, what happened since then>?

 

[Jesus DO]

This has nothing to do with my previous posts in this forum and this thread is very serious and I hope to get a good discussion out of this.



I honestly believe that people with down syndrome are very interesting and are the coolest people on Earth. I cannot explain why I think people with it are interesting, it is just one of those things you can't put into words. I volunteer at a hospital, so I was waiting on line to grab something to eat at the hospital cafeteria. As you can imagine it was a long line, all of a sudden this kid with downs starts talking to me and I went along with the conversation. It wasn't a very detailed conversation but he told me that he just had surgery. He asked me what I do, I said I was a volunteer, etc. I don't know how old the boy was I would say maybe 12, he was with his mother, so after that 2-3 minute conversation I just bought my food and ate outside and went on with the rest of my day.

My point is that people with Downs Syndrome and other disorders are almost always stared at because they look different than you and I and I think its terrible because they are the nicest people. Sorry, I realize I keep calling them "those people". Does anyone here think the way I do?

I've so far not had much formal expereince with Down Syndrome, however I have had the opportunity to meet a wonderful and energetic young 3 year old girl at the clinic I was at the other day. She has Down Syndrome, but to what degree I am not sure.

She had so much energy! She came and tried to take my Palm pilot right out of my hands little hands. It was the highlight of the day. I wish I had a picture.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Haha I'm pretty suure I last read one of your posts you ONLY WANTED to work in a specialty where you make over $1M and you were talking neurosurgery, ortho, etc.. First of all your chances of that happening are slim (none) to none... But either way, what happened since then>?

When I started that thread I didn't know it was that hard to make 1M+ working under a salary (sorry, I just didn't know). If you are in private practice where you aren't working under a salary then you can make as much as you want. I still want to do that and probably WILL end up going down that road but I AM also interested in what we are talking about in this thread.

I just want to know my options. I understand why you brought up the question though.


The average salary of an Ortho surgeon around here is 500,000. Just pointing it out. Neurosurgeons must make over 1m, that is a hell of a job. I'm probably wrong though.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I am still leaning towards peds though.

 

[kdburton]

When I started that thread I didn't know it was that hard to make 1M+ working under a salary (sorry, I just didn't know). If you are in private practice where you aren't working under a salary then you can make as much as you want. I still want to do that and probably WILL end up going down that road but I AM also interested in what we are talking about in this thread.

I just want to know my options. I understand why you brought up the question though.


The average salary of an Ortho surgeon around here is 500,000. Just pointing it out. Neurosurgeons must make over 1m, that is a hell of a job. I'm probably wrong though.

FYI

This is somewhat outdated information, which means that it may actually be an overestimate of income in some cases, but...:

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

General orthopods make ~$350k average, neurosurgeons make $541k, general peds make $175k. The only data I've seen where someone is making (self-reporting) >$1M/y are orthopedic spine surgeons

 

[xnfs93hy]

FYI

This is somewhat outdated information, which means that it may actually be an overestimate of income in some cases, but...:

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

General orthopods make ~$350k average, neurosurgeons make $541k, general peds make $175k. The only data I've seen where someone is making (self-reporting) >$1M/y are orthopedic spine surgeons

I don't know what you mean by general orthopods but I read in the newspaper under health that the average (It might be a New Jersey average or it might be a national average, I don't know) SALARY of an Orthopedic Surgeon is 491,000 (I rounded to 500k). I don't know what the difference is between Orthopedic Surgery, general ortho, ortho spine, etc. All I know is that the link above is old and that it said 500k in my local newspaper.

Not saying you're wrong though.

 

[kdburton]

I don't know what you mean by general orthopods but I read in the newspaper under health that the average (It might be a New Jersey average or it might be a national average, I don't know) SALARY of an Orthopedic Surgeon is 491,000 (I rounded to 500k). I don't know what the difference is between Orthopedic Surgery, general ortho, ortho spine, etc. All I know is that the link above is old and that it said 500k in my local newspaper.

Not saying you're wrong though.

General orthopedics = orthopedic surgery where one doesn't subspecialize. They do "everything" instead of just foot & ankle, sports med, joint replacement, spine, etc. In some subspecialties you make more than others (i.e. I pointed out spine surgery in my previous post). The fact that the information included in link is old actually may mean that those national average numbers have gone down a bit. Inflation would tend to make them increase, however decreased reimbursements for medical procedures (ortho is a procedural field by nature) would tend to make them go down. The MEDIAN (a more meaningful # in this case) salary for an orthopedic surgeon in the mid-atlantic region is actually $415K (according to salary.com). The only reason why I posted on this thread was because before you were intent on making >$1M and now you're interested in pediatrics - a field in which noone makes anywhere near $1M.

 

[xnfs93hy]

General orthopedics = orthopedic surgery where one doesn't subspecialize. They do "everything" instead of just foot & ankle, sports med, joint replacement, spine, etc. In some subspecialties you make more than others (i.e. I pointed out spine surgery in my previous post). The fact that the information included in link is old actually may mean that those national average numbers have gone down a bit. Inflation would tend to make them increase, however decreased reimbursements for medical procedures (ortho is a procedural field by nature) would tend to make them go down. The MEDIAN (a more meaningful # in this case) salary for an orthopedic surgeon in the mid-atlantic region is actually $415K (according to salary.com). The only reason why I posted on this thread was because before you were intent on making >$1M and now you're interested in pediatrics - a field in which noone makes anywhere near $1M.

Not even a (lets say) Pediatric orthopedic hand surgeon? I'm not trying to be a wise ass, I'm just saying. Or is Peds just not where the $$ is? Would I be compensated more if I was a in a non peds field or does it depend? Thats what I'm trying to ask.

 

[Bertelman]

The term "Down's Syndrome" is eponymous, and named after John Langdon Down. While "Down" syndrome is frequently used, it is actually less correct than Down's Syndrome. This is equivalent to Alzheimer's Disease.

I don't think the discussion is as obvious as you suggest.

http://www.editrix.us/2008/09/all-this-talk-i.html

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/disease.html

From what I have read, there is a trend away from the possessive 's lately, because it presumes the eponym had the disease. Unique exceptions include Lou Gehrig's (he had the disease) and Legionnaire's (many of them did).

Bottom line, you will see both Alzheimer's and Alzheimer littered throughout a medical chart. Everyone knows what you mean. In the case of Down syndrome, though, I would note that for the sake of this discussion the national societies prefer Down.