Don't work for Banfield

[momoftwosons]

Hi all. I am a post Banfield "victim". I say vicitm due to how I have been treated throughout the 3 years I worked for them. They allowed another doctor (whom was later found to be less competent) to treat me like crap (in the hospital that I opened). Never offered me an apology (even though my WHITE summer student expressed to our FD that he thought Banfield was racist becaue of it all went down). And if you plan to try to leave Banfield, you have to give them a 90 days notice (they claim for smooth transition for their clients). But, they can walk in today and tell you this will be your last day and you have to just take it!!! No severance package, no vested 401 (that by the way you only get if you have been with them for 5 years). And then they are so poorly managed. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, so your money gets jacked up and they all just pass the buck off to another person.

I have never felt so disrespected by a company that loves to boast about themselves on how much they love and respect their doctors (BS!) They feel if they get you to Oregan and wine and dine you that you will forget that when you return home they treat you like CRAP! The unfortunates of At-will employeement. It gives them the opportunity to crap on you and you have no way of fighting back...I don't wish anything on Banfield than the same hell they have put me and my family through!

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[Squiggy]

Quick question: Why don't you find a way to make vet med work out instead of jumping ship to pharmacy? From your posts, it seems you like the nature of the work, just not the crappy pay, and the poor working condiitons/nature of the work at Banfield.

Instead of spending 100k+ into going to pharmacy school, why don't you put the money towards starting up/buying out a veterinary hospital/clinic? As an owner, you'd be in control of your practice and it's very possible that you'll match or surpass the earning potential of a retail pharmacist.

Do you have a non-compete with Banfield? You should just stay in Alabama, open up shop stealing your old clients from them, and go to work with yourself.

By the way, I think veterinarians are shooting themselves in the foot by working for corporate entities like Banfield. They're basically like HMO's in human medicine where a third-party of businessmen take a big chunk out of the pie and dictate how you practice. The proliferation of corporations would be even worse in vet med as the pie is much smaller.

 

[nyvet5]

Iam sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with banfield.
But before i would ask you for an advise for working with them let me tell you my own experience.
Iam currently working toward getting my licence as a vet. since iam a foreign graduate ( graduated 4 years ago ),i started to work with them a year ago as a DPN upstate NY. trained in another hospital first so i have seen two locations.
comparing them to my previous emergency hospital that i used to work for:
* *positives on a personal level**
-i get paid more( i have a bachelor degree means more hourly rate)
- more stable job
- more bonus on production + raise
- honestly getting treated better
- have more organized responsibilities
-less drama (some exceptions i'll mention later)

** positives in general in my opinion**
- over all patients gets more compassionate care( some times free services)
again comparing to emergency hospital were the client pays tons of money for everything.(also the wellness plans helps sometimes and u r aware of that)
-in terms of support they make protocols to help everyone working with them to do the right thing in an organized matter with around the operating hours support in all the aspects of operations.
- doctors don't have to worry about everything since responsibilities are shared among team members.

**Negatives**
- constant review about revenue and production in DETAILS by all the field and medical directors on a daily basis, and expecting increase on a constant rate( well it is a corporation and that is what they care about )
-somewhat increased charges for SOME ADVANCED services comparing to other local practices.
- located inside a store, were the store manager gets involved in some occasions were he shouldn't be ( he was just nosey)
-some time i think it will be faster and easier to work without there data software which forces u to follow certain ways of ordering and checking out( it is way better in saving all data than the semi paperless or paper based hospitals)
- once u r on a plan u r confined to one practice(u can transfer or cancel the plan anytime though)
- our own male Doctor now is not that great personality which makes it harder for the team.( i'll talk more about that later)
- Doctors working for the practice
have to follow their own way of doing things till they buy the hospital they r allowed to do differently.

These r my personal opinion and correct me if iam mistaken, after all u have been longer with them as a doctor.

will let me talk about racism, i don't know what region of the country u were working but if that is true believe me our own Dr. would have been fired long time ago based on his origin and character, instead they had one meeting after another and he is still working till now.
our field and medical directors never treated anyone in a bad way,it was only the Dr. who doesn't care about us and they tried nicely ever thing to make him change his way but it only makes him worth.( he decided to transfer to another state were the cost of living is better, lucky us)
ANYWAY u don't always get a good boss so u might have a different Director than the one we have.

Sorry again to know what u have been through in ur experience with them, and hope didn't annoy u by my long writing.

So let me get an advise regarding continuing to work with them after obtaining a licence.

 

[catlover]

And if you plan to try to leave Banfield, you have to give them a 90 days notice (they claim for smooth transition for their clients).

I'm just curious - how do they enforce requiring a 90 days notice?

 

[momoftwosons]

They force it by sticking it in your contract. So your contract starts out saying "we are at will therefore are not obligated to you and you are not obligate to us" HOWEVER (ON PAGE 2) We require a 90 day notice to give the clients a smooth transition". I didn't even notice this in my contract until my classmate told me she was told she would have to PAY THEM $5000 to leave without a 90 day notice!!!! Can you believe that??? And yet they called me in on my off day to let me know it would be my last day. That was it...no severence, no work out my two weeks. AND NO I WAS NOT FIRED! They actually let all four of the doctors from my hospital go and gave it to three other doctors from the three other hospitals. The whole thing about money is right...they are money hungry sons-of-bitches. They push stuff on us to do (i.e. told me if I didn't like being open until 7 and open 7 days a week maybe Banfield wasn't the place for me...guess what they are not no longer open til 7 or on Sundays cause why IT WAS COSTING THEM MORE TO BE OPEN CAUSE THE BUSINESS WAS NOT THERE!!!). So I lost my job even after telling them that wouldn't work. Oh and no I had no say so in the other doctors being hired (heck I did't kow about them until they were already hired and in training). And yet, they said we lost money cause there were too many doctors there (DUH YA THINK). But, then they turn around and put the extra doctors from the other clinics in there. Did I mention I opened the hospital UUGGHHH I HATE THEM!

Oh and yes they make you sign a no-compete. So though I have very loyal clients whom all have expressed they want to know where I am going, I couldn't openly take them. So, I am happy to be going into pharmacy. People need and will buy their medication. Not the same with the health care of their pet. I don't care how much people claim to love their pets. I have seen the worst animals (still alive) in my entire life come into that hospital and all people want is some antibiotic or can you please just trim his nails! But, that is my fault right. I can't talk people into getting $500 worth of services so clearly I am a horrible doctor. I loved being a vet (the medicine) but I no longer have any love for the industry.

 

[Squiggy]

Maybe you could get a new license and relocate to a different state, maybe to a area where people have more disposable income?

Have you considered owning your own practice at all?

 

[No Imagination]

momoftwosons, I think we can all agree that vet med is an industry, and when you work for cooperate, their bottom line is whats important to them, and you work for them. I've worked (granted, as a tech) for 1 year for a cooperate vet company, and I can say, after working 3 years for a 2 doctor private practice, that corporate sucks. But everything your saying seems completely reasonable to me - from the hours, to the contract to the lack of respect.

In terms of your switch to pharmacy, after you calculate

A) How much you will pay for pharm school,
B) how much you will loose while not working (least full time) in pharm school, and
C) how much you will be making as a fresh out of school pharmasist, how many years will it be until you actually start making a profit.

Quick calculation by me using conservative values says its gonna be 4-5 years MINIMUM before you recoop your losses. in that 4-5 years for the money spent, you could if you wanted, create a thriving private practice.

Add to that, when you are a pharm, your going to have to work for cooperate in some sense anyway, and just might have the same problems.

Finally, talk to a lawyer. I don't know the details of your non-compete, but I know in NYS, non-competes are almost impossible to inforce and almost meaningless. A vet with a non-compete opened a hospital 100 yards across the street from a VCA hospital he worked at for 10+ years. Got a lawyer and the non-compete was pretty much torn up. But that may be a NY/NJ thing.

The legal aspect had something to do with any contract that prevented you from doing your job was an unjust clause. I'm paraphrasing something I don't know what i am talking about there, but check it out if your interested.

 

[momoftwosons]

Many of my clients have asked me to. I know I would have the personality to run my own clinic, but I am not sure I want the headache. Plus I don't like how fickle the market is with veterinary medicine. The down times seem to be really DOWN. I also don't have the desire to be in my clinic 7 days a week. Without it being a very large practice (which is a headache in itself) I would be a live in doc. (this coming from the other two vets in my clinic who owned their own practices...also from what I saw of the two vets I worked at in previous years).

Once I a have competed pharmacy school, we plan to move to Georgia. I will be getting my license there (as I plan to keep my license active) and will possibly do relief work when not working as a pharmacist. I do still (and will always) love the medicine.

 

[momoftwosons]

In terms of your switch to pharmacy, after you calculate

A) How much you will pay for pharm school,
B) how much you will loose while not working (least full time) in pharm school, and
C) how much you will be making as a fresh out of school pharmasist, how many years will it be until you actually start making a profit.

Quick calculation by me using conservative values says its gonna be 4-5 years MINIMUM before you recoop your losses.

That may very well be true, but it is definitely going to be worth it for me. I am not an old geezer, so I have time to recoop as you say. But, in 10 years I will be able to go where I want. Yes, it may be for a corporation, but I will have choices. In vet medicine, short of going into debt trying to have your own or uprooting your family all the time there are not that many options (I've done USDA, private and corporate...so my desire to continue has dwindled to ZERO).

 

[No Imagination]

Glad you thought it through momoftwosons, seems like its the right move for you.

Also glad you've worked in other aspects of the vet. med industry and are not basing it off 1-2 experiences.

I've seen more than one vet get completely disenfranchised at the industry.
It may seem odd, but techs kind of have an interesting perception of it. We get to see you guys doing what we (some of us anyways) want to do, and there is defiantly a transition that happens to new vets after the first few years out of school, and it's not always a good one.

I've seen new vets leave the field, move to new states, get into shouting fights with other doctors and office managers. To us, where like, "You're a damn vet, why can't you be happy". In time, I think we all start seeing the situation in new light.

Good luck to ya. Make sure you make a thread and let us know how pharm school is different and such. Ohh, and be careful, some of those pharm threads/people are down right brutal

 

[momoftwosons]

Thanks No Imagination. I don't think many realize how much I have thought it through and based it on the fact that I have experienced the industry in many different lights. Plus I never jump into something this major without prayer...so I am good. I definetly let everyone know how it is going (thanks for "in pharm school" statement...cause I am so nervous about finding out...fingures crossed til next Friday!!!)

 

[Nexx]

Hi all. I am a post Banfield "victim". I say vicitm due to how I have been treated throughout the 3 years I worked for them. They allowed another doctor (whom was later found to be less competent) to treat me like crap (in the hospital that I opened). Never offered me an apology (even though my WHITE summer student expressed to our FD that he thought Banfield was racist becaue of it all went down). And if you plan to try to leave Banfield, you have to give them a 90 days notice (they claim for smooth transition for their clients). But, they can walk in today and tell you this will be your last day and you have to just take it!!! No severance package, no vested 401 (that by the way you only get if you have been with them for 5 years). And then they are so poorly managed. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, so your money gets jacked up and they all just pass the buck off to another person.

I have never felt so disrespected by a company that loves to boast about themselves on how much they love and respect their doctors (BS!) They feel if they get you to Oregan and wine and dine you that you will forget that when you return home they treat you like CRAP! The unfortunates of At-will employeement. It gives them the opportunity to crap on you and you have no way of fighting back...I don't wish anything on Banfield than the same hell they have put me and my family through!

Wait what...

I know you are ranting about Banfield but sllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooow down a bit there, you sound like a lunatic, highly emotional, or immature (it's hard to tell in this medium)

I know Banfield has good points and bad points, just 6 months ago (or so) you were saying they weren't too shabby. I'm willing to bet that in the past 9 months since you've been here on these boards actively seeking info about pharmacy and changing careers that your heart may not have been into your other job, maybe you were messing up, not producing as much, whatever and overall just looking to get out so maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

90-day termination notice is pretty standard for salaried positions, as is the penalty for early-termination of a contract. Unfortunately you also lived in an 'at will' state, and since they got rid of more than one doctor at your practice it seems like there is a bit more going on.

Anyhow, sorry to hear about it and good luck with your future studies.

Just stop, breathe, and take it all in.

 

[thereservoirdog]

I agree with Nexx, before you go wasting your veterinary degree, think about what you're doing. I've worked at a Banfield before, and there's a huge difference between private practice and corporate chains. Luckily our hospital wasn't too bad, the doctor's were all pretty fresh and hadn't sold their souls to Banfield yet. But I've been to a few Banfields where everyone working there looked absolutely miserable, and they were so obsessed about making money that the patients didn't matter much anymore. Don't let one hospital ruin your whole career.


edit: Alright, nevermind, looks like you're already interviewing at pharmacy schools. Well, have fun counting pills.

 

[Pointer1330]

Wait what...


90-day termination notice is pretty standard for salaried positions, as is the penalty for early-termination of a contract.

Sorry, but that is not normal for salaried positions...especially when it's an "at will" contract. I have worked in various salaried positions and for a nationwide HR company and have delt with benefits - that is not normal. Two weeks is pretty standard all the way around.

 

[sumstorm]

Sorry, but that is not normal for salaried positions...especially when it's an "at will" contract. I have worked in various salaried positions and for a nationwide HR company and have delt with benefits - that is not normal. Two weeks is pretty standard all the way around.

So you worked at a nationwide HR company that covers veterinary medicine?

That is really interesting, who did you work for? Each field is different, and I know that 90 days isn't unusual in the zoo world. It isn't always followed, and often if you say you want to leave, they will abreviate it (better to have someone gone then risk expensive animals to thier care) but it isn't at all unusual.

 

[chris03333]

that is not normal. Two weeks is pretty standard all the way around.

You obviously have not worked with many professionals in the health sciences. 90 days is normal. 2 weeks in extrmemly unprofessional.

 

[No Imagination]

You obviously have not worked with many professionals in the health sciences. 90 days is normal. 2 weeks in extrmemly unprofessional.

Why then is all the onus on you to give 2 weeks (or 3 months).

I am torn by this. On one hand, I agree that it is not unusual to be required to give 90 days and 2 weeks in quite short and even unprofessional.

But then so should being let go at any point after giving your 90 days.

If I want to move on, and go to work for someone else, I could

A) Give 90 days, and schedule myself to start my new job at that point, but then be fired the next day and be out of work for 3 months all because I tried to do the "professional" thing of giving 3 months notice.

B) Or I could lookout for myself, and tell them I am leaving with 2 weeks (or less) notice at protect my own ass for being left out in the cold.

The fact that companies like Banfield and VCA not only have non-competes, but also have stipulations that prevent you from working at other vets while on salary (not talking about non-compete, talking about working outside of the geographic range of the non-compete why you are taking salary), makes it hard to rationalize why I would give 90 days.

IMO, For me, If I gave 90 days notice, I would ask for 90 days of employment right then and there, otherwise, find a new vet. Professionalism works both ways.

Now, I think the previous posts were based on contract, and therefore professionalism should be left out of the argument.

 

[sumstorm]

I can't speak for the vet world, but when I turned my resignation in (90d) at the zoo, I was 'supervised' for the next 2 weeks while I redistributed my urgent obligations to my staff, left notes on non-urgent/distant programs, wrote out documentation about where everything could be found and a time line for what needed to be done when. Then I departed, but I was paid for the full 90 days.

I think that is part of the bargaining/contracting process. Know the obligations and protect yourself. That may mean chosing not to work for Banfield.

However, having said that, one of our associate vets is a relief vet for banfield. So obviously it is possible to have different types of contracts with the company. She could stay occupied at Banfields all the time if she desired.

 

[chris03333]

Why then is all the onus on you to give 2 weeks (or 3 months).

I am torn by this. On one hand, I agree that it is not unusual to be required to give 90 days and 2 weeks in quite short and even unprofessional.

But then so should being let go at any point after giving your 90 days.

If I want to move on, and go to work for someone else, I could

A) Give 90 days, and schedule myself to start my new job at that point, but then be fired the next day and be out of work for 3 months all because I tried to do the "professional" thing of giving 3 months notice.

B) Or I could lookout for myself, and tell them I am leaving with 2 weeks (or less) notice at protect my own ass for being left out in the cold.

The fact that companies like Banfield and VCA not only have non-competes, but also have stipulations that prevent you from working at other vets while on salary (not talking about non-compete, talking about working outside of the geographic range of the non-compete why you are taking salary), makes it hard to rationalize why I would give 90 days.

IMO, For me, If I gave 90 days notice, I would ask for 90 days of employment right then and there, otherwise, find a new vet. Professionalism works both ways.

Now, I think the previous posts were based on contract, and therefore professionalism should be left out of the argument.

I meant to leave the contract in the argument. It says 90 days, so that is what you give. Guess I did not make that clear.

I do stand by the statement that 2 weeks is unprofessional for a veterinarian to give their employer (or anyone in that level of a health profession) but sometimes life happens. I would at least give a month myself (and that would be in the case that I was not happy in the place I was at and would not care if they fired me on the spot at that point (plus let them fire you early and then collect unemployment..)BUT if you sign a contract that says 90 day notice, buck up and DO IT. You should not sign a contract with that stipulation if that is not something you want to live up to.

 

[Jochebed]

And if you plan to try to leave Banfield, you have to give them a 90 days notice (they claim for smooth transition for their clients). But, they can walk in today and tell you this will be your last day and you have to just take it!!! No severance package, no vested 401 (that by the way you only get if you have been with them for 5 years).

~~~~~

They force it by sticking it in your contract. So your contract starts out saying "we are at will therefore are not obligated to you and you are not obligate to us" HOWEVER (ON PAGE 2) We require a 90 day notice to give the clients a smooth transition".

Ummm...if 90 days notice on your part and 2 weeks notice on their part with no severance/401K, etc was written into your contract then *surprise* you have to abide by that. If you didn't like those stipulations, you shouldn't have signed the contract and gone to work for them. They didn't FORCE it on you - no one sat there with a gun and MADE you sign the contract. YOU put yourself in this position by signing a contract that was *another surprise* written in the employer's favor.

I didn't even notice this in my contract until my classmate told me...

So...you signed a LEGAL DOCUMENT and didn't at least get a lawyer to look at it? Not saying they negotiated for you, but you didn't even have a lawyer read it? Sorry, your problems aren't with Banfield, they're poor business. YOU should have gotten a lawyer to at least read the contract. You signed a legal document with NO idea what you were getting into and *surprise* you got into a bad situation. Not Banfield's fault at all.

Oh and yes they make you sign a no-compete. So though I have very loyal clients whom all have expressed they want to know where I am going, I couldn't openly take them.

Again, if you didn't want or like the non-compete...WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE! If you'd hired a lawyer they would have pointed this out to you and you could have negotiated or gone elsewhere. Also, NOT Banfield's fault. Poor business on your part.

BUT if you sign a contract that says 90 day notice, buck up and DO IT. You should not sign a contract with that stipulation if that is not something you want to live up to.

Agreed. The problem here is not with Banfield (who I'm not a fan of either), it's with not reading a contract, not having a contract reviewed and then being surprised when the LEGAL DOCUMENT that you signed requires you to live up to it.

Sorry, YOU put yourself in this situation. Make sure whatever pharmacy hires you...that you READ the contract and hire a lawyer FIRST. Otherwise, they'll play you for a sucker too.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

After taking a required seminar in contract negotiation (boring as hell but I learned a lot), I have to agree the above is spot on.