Does reading hate comments about successful AA applicants sometimes scare you?

[sweetshauna]

I've been reading the comments left on a few SDNers' MDapps page, and seriously, I think if those folks could string up a few of the African American pre-meds (who have gotten multiple acceptances) from a tree and get away with it, they would do it in a heartbeat.

Some of the comments just let you know the person is a straight-up ignorant a-hole, but some of them are so malicious they actually scare me. Am I being overly sensitive/ irrational, or have any of you read these posts and felt the same way?

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[wutwinb]

I've been reading the comments left on a few SDNers' MDapps page, and seriously, I think if those folks could string up a few of the African American pre-meds (who have gotten multiple acceptances) from a tree and get away with it, they would do it in a heartbeat.

Some of the comments just let you know the person is a straight-up ignorant a-hole, but some of them are so malicious they actually scare me. Am I being overly sensitive/ irrational, or have any of you read these posts and felt the same way?

I just received a very crude/inappropriate comment on my MdApps yesterday. I thought I was used to it at this point, but that poster had some real anger in him/her. These posters have to use the anonymity of MdApps to say cruel things. I wouldn't let cowards like that scare you.

Good luck with the rest of the application process

 

[sweetshauna]

I just received a very crude/inappropriate comment on my MdApps yesterday. I thought I was used to it at this point, but that poster had some real anger in him/her. These posters have to use the anonymity of MdApps to say cruel things. I wouldn't let cowards like that scare you.

Good luck with the rest of the application process

wutwinb, your app was one of the one's I was talking about (there are some regular SDNers who've got it much much worse, but I didn't want to name names because its not my place to start a thread drawing attention to any specific person's MDapps profile.) I really am sorry that you have to be exposed to all of this. I haven't gotten any of these comments, but I really feel it for you and all the other black folk who are taking a verbal thrashing from these people.

By scared, I don't mean actually physically/ personally scared of these people (well, not really). By scared, I mean:

- is this the person who will be sitting beside me in class next semester?
- is this the person that is gonna treat my aunts and uncles and other relatives in 10 years?
- is this the person who will someday have an administrative function in the healthcare sector (at a hospital, insurance agency, pharmacuetical company, or government agency, or a non-profit agency) and will actually make decisions that will affect the lives (and deaths) of many many people in my community?

That is what scares me.

How many people from oppressed groups (not just black people) come into contact with health professionals who really do not have their best interest at heart? Who just don't give a damn? How will this affect their quality of life if/ when they recover from their illness? Will they be able to even recognize that their doctor doesn't give a **** about them and is doing nothing at all to seek and provide the best possible medical treatment for them?

That is what scares me.

 

[RandomBlackManX]

wutwinb, your app was one of the one's I was talking about (there are some regular SDNers who've got it much much worse, but I didn't want to name names because its not my place to start a thread drawing attention to any specific person's MDapps profile.) I really am sorry that you have to be exposed to all of this. I haven't gotten any of these comments, but I really feel it for you and all the other black folk who are taking a verbal thrashing from these people.

By scared, I don't mean actually physically/ personally scared of these people (well, not really). By scared, I mean:

- is this the person who will be sitting beside me in class next semester?
- is this the person that is gonna treat my aunts and uncles and other relatives in 10 years?
- is this the person who will someday have an administrative function in the healthcare sector (at a hospital, insurance agency, pharmacuetical company, or government agency, or a non-profit agency) and will actually make decisions that will affect the lives (and deaths) of many many people in my community?

That is what scares me.

How many people from oppressed groups (not just black people) come into contact with health professionals who really do not have their best interest at heart? Who just don't give a damn? How will this affect their quality of life if/ when they recover from their illness? Will they be able to even recognize that their doctor doesn't give a **** about them and is doing nothing at all to seek and provide the best possible medical treatment for them?

That is what scares me.

The scariest part for me is that when you meet these people in person, they will smile directly into your face. How do you figure out who is friend or foe?

 

[MSKalltheway]

Am I being overly sensitive/ irrational, or have any of you read these posts and felt the same way?

Nope, not at all. Its natural to feel this way, especially seeing such blatantly disrespectful remarks. I've been reading them in all of your profiles, and I feel hurt for you all. I wouldn't worry at all about these people despite their opinions, the thing is even if they do have an important decision to make and make the wrong one, their professional career could be in serious jeopardy. I wouldnt at all be surprised if a non-minority took 'em out for it! There are enough good docs of all colors in this field to silence the bad and keep them in check.

If you want to know what to do, or at least what I do, whenever I get the chance I do something to let everyone else know that im just as good, if not better than you are. I can work harder, more tirelessly, I can be better with patients, I'm more ready for the attending to pimp me than you are, I am ALWAYS well read on my patients and their conditions, I ALWAYS am involved in every step of my patients care at all times, I am a better team player, the interns/residents always appreciate my help...and the list goes on. I'm not saying you look at everyone and do this; that would be just arrogant and pompous as more people are for you than against you. But in those instances where people may say such things and then smile in your face, hence the next question:

The scariest part for me is that when you meet these people in person, they will smile directly into your face. How do you figure out who is friend or foe?

You have already covered your bases by being one of the hardest working med students out there. If you are good with your patients, are always willing to help, keep your crap together and organized, are always well prepared, and can make your interns and residents laugh at least once a day, you'll be golden. There are two types of med students: ones that are really good at school and aren't so good with people, and others who are really good at both. You may not be able to tell exactly who in the former group may be against you with these hateful comments, but you can get a hint of who it might be with how they act and treat others (esp minorities). They are the ones who will see that you are among the best (because you are!) and will be mad for a different reason...you didnt deserve to be there, yet you are better. Thats the only way you fight fire with fire to me...

I dont know if there is anyone in my class that might look at "me" and think I got it easier since im black, but if there is, I'm ready to show them. I'm confident that any other URMs in my class will do the same. None of us may say it, but we all have a chip on our shoulder because of those few bad apples think we wouldnt be here if we were white or asian.

The only way to show them they are wrong is to remember all this trash you came across in applying, and show them why you deserve to be there!

At the same time, I dont want anyone to think I'm an angry black man or anything I honestly feel like pretty much all (not all, but almost) of my classmates have their heads on straight. I can tell that they feel like I'm here because I deserve it and if anything, they respect me more for my opinions on minority issues in medicine, and they're real chill to go party with

 

[lpressley130]

Very well put MSK. And, sweetshauna, I agree with you - if they could they would. But, they can't - so they just have to get over it. SS and Brown Bear, don't fear, use MSK's encouragement to move forward.

 

[MsJLewis]

MSK, thanks for your wisdom. I'll definitely be incorporating it when I start.

...BUT, doesn't anyone else just feel tired? I'm so tired of having to prove myself and just reading some of MSK's advice exhausted me! Haha. I guess I better rest up now in preparation...

 

[Flake0006]

I don't feel like any of us should get tired or put much effort into just proving ourselves to other people. You and I work to satisfy our own inner desires. In reality what others say should mean very little whether it be congratulatory or derogative. (Not including what comes from our close friends and loved ones.) Lets face it, no matter what we do or accomplish, there will always be people who feel like we are unworthy or inadequate. I say forget them. As you can see this world is changing and if they want to remain in the past they will soon find themselves in the minority under scrutiny.

 

[flaahless]

The scariest part for me is that when you meet these people in person, they will smile directly into your face. How do you figure out who is friend or foe?

That's what bugs me. Some of the comments I've received are flat out horrible and disrespectful, and I find my self wishing I could actually meet these people and make them bite the bottom of my boot.

I just feel it's unfortunate that these people don't even know us, yet they are so quick to judge. We are wonderful people and they are too angry to realize that. I am positive that if they kicked it with me for 15 minutes, we would be friends. Yet, they are so frustrated/envious/jealous that they say hurtful and racist things. But hey, if my page is cathartic for them, then I'm glad it helped.

Thanks for the advice MSK, but I'm with MSJ on this one. I'm tired of trying to prove myself. Especially to people who don't even know me and are already prejudiced to begin with. So long as I continue to make my friends and family proud, I'm just going to be me, and hopefully my performance and personality will change a few opinions, and if not, bummer.

 

[njbmd]

The thing is that there is always going to be folks who attempt to "drag" you down because you have success where they see failure in themselves. As the old saying goes, " if you feel someone's foot in your rear end, they are behind you." Hold your head that much higher and keep going forward because "living well is always the best revenge".

You know what you have done day in and day out in terms of preparing yourself for medical school. You have submitted a competitive application and you have earned your slot in medical school because no medical school in this country "gives" seats to people who are undeserving. If past performance in any indication, most folks around here are going to thrive in medical school and become leaders in the profession of medicine in the future.

Most of those naysayers become quite silent after the first rounds of exams when they find that you have outscored them and that you are continuing your pursuit of excellent in spite of them. Most people also "grow up" over the course of four years of medical school. It just works out that way.

When someone feels obligated to post derogatory comments on an anonymous message board about people that they don't know, it speaks volumes about them and their immature insecurities. I always say a prayer of "thanks" because I am not like them and I know from where my good fortune comes and I applaud folks who are just "living and pursuing their dreams". All around me, there are good examples of how I don't want to be and I don't let negativity find me. There are just too many positive things out there to be doing and experiencing.

 

[LizBlackwellFan]

Hey there. Thanks for your post. I missed the drama, but I think it's terrific that you're having such success in this application process. Congratulations!

Obviously, affirmative action is a tricky subject.
For one, a few bad apples blatantly lie about their ethnicity: One mother from a wealthy Boston suburb told me that she has started checking "Pacific Islander" on her daughter's applications, because her daughter is 1/8 Filipino and "looks" Hawaiian. I'm mostly white, was born & raised in Hawaii, and was offended. I know the very sad history of the Hawaiian people and understand why educational/financial compensation has been created for an indigenous people cheated of their own land and resources. The Filipino government has stated since its inception that the Philippines - not "Pacific islands" like Guam and Samoa - are part of Asia. Most Filipinos identify themselves as Asian. This particular mother (who is 100% white herself) decided to change the definition when it was convenient for her and her kids. (She admitted that she's hoping for more "relaxed" admissions standards and some scholarship money.) I guess AdComs aren't diligent about verifying ethnicity...?

Secondly, affirmative action seems to have no method, yet, of taking financial hardship into account. I have some pretty well-off 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Mexican-American and African-American friends (not necessarily descendents of slaves) with stats from comparable schools and work/travel backgrounds similar to mine who have been accepted to schools where I can only dream about interviewing. So the question in this case is: How long do we compensate future generations for the atrocities of the past?

Having said all this, there's simply no excuse for derision or hatred. I'm sorry you had to face that and will likely continue to face that. It's divisive and destructive. I suspect that if the person thought about it, s/he would realize his/her anger should be focused at the imperfect system of affirmative action and not at you. And, imperfect though it is, affirmative action serves an important purpose; I think most of us are glad it's there.

I know one of the purposes of affirmative action is to provide the medical field with a physician population more reflective of society. African-Americans may prefer going to an African-American doctor, for example. As a woman, I know that I specifically seek out female doctors.

I apologize if I'm butting in. Honestly, I've been grappling with this subject a lot recently as my own resentment/insecurity has risen and waned watching friends get into some amazing schools. I decided to check out this forum to listen and better educate myself. I think open and respectful dialogue is important, and I appreciate your writing about your experiences. So far, my own experience and learning has looked like this:
...
Again, congratulations on your multiple successes. Sounds as if you'll be a terrific doctor, and - Lord knows - we need you! All the best!

Any and all thoughtful responses are welcome!

 

[BigRedPremed]

I honestly don't think that many premeds are racists. The comments are a product of the admissions process. I think the anger and resentment will die down once everyone is in med school.

 

[Boogsie]

I honestly don't think that many premeds are racists. The comments are a product of the admissions process. I think the anger and resentment will die down once everyone is in med school.

I have to say, at least on SDN, the first statement is not true. How many affirmative action threads or just rude comments do there have to be over and over again?

These comments are not a product of “the admissions process”. Throughout our lives, we have all been competing against each other to get into the best junior high, high school, college, and professional schools. Once that ends, we are competing for jobs. That is the nature of our society. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard: "Well, she won that prize, got that fellowship, got that job, or got that raise because she is black." These statements are never OK.

In college, one of my white friends could barely read at a college level. I asked him jokingly, "How the hell did you get into college?" He said, "My dad and granddad went here, so here I am!!" That happens all the time. When someone gets a job because their dad knows the CEO or because their mom does some charity work with so and so, our society accepts it. Somehow, the children of the wealthy deserve more, but when people who have been oppressed and continue to be discriminated against get treatment that tries to level the playing field, it a huge scandal. C’mon, give me a break!

I really don't think the resentment and anger will "die down" ever. You don't say and believe that people are less than you on a whim. It’s something that stays with you for entire life. Those same premeds and going to be whispering in 10 or 20 years, "She got that position at X hospital because she is black" or, at that very least, thinking it.

By the time you are applying the med school (age 20-35) you KNOW the difference between right and wrong. You know, for some deep down, that harsh comments and belittling talk to NOT OK, and you know that your feelings about others (non-whites/non-Asians) are rooted in hate not stress and certainly not in “the admissions process.”

 

[flaahless]

I have to say, at least on SDN, the first statement is not true. How many affirmative action threads or just rude comments do there have to be over and over again?

These comments are not a product of “the admissions process”. Throughout our lives, we have all been competing against each other to get into the best junior high, high school, college, and professional schools. Once that ends, we are competing for jobs. That is the nature of our society. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard: "Well, she won that prize, got that fellowship, got that job, or got that raise because she is black." These statements are never OK.

In college, one of my white friends could barely read at a college level. I asked him jokingly, "How the hell did you get into college?" He said, "My dad and granddad went here, so here I am!!" That happens all the time. When someone gets a job because their dad knows the CEO or because their mom does some charity work with so and so, our society accepts it. Somehow, the children of the wealthy deserve more, but when people who have been oppressed and continue to be discriminated against get treatment that tries to level the playing field, it a huge scandal. C’mon, give me a break!

I really don't think the resentment and anger will "die down" ever. You don't say and believe that people are less than you on a whim. It’s something that stays with you for entire life. Those same premeds and going to be whispering in 10 or 20 years, "She got that position at X hospital because she is black" or, at that very least, thinking it.

By the time you are applying the med school (age 20-35) you KNOW the difference between right and wrong. You know, for some deep down, that harsh comments and belittling talk to NOT OK, and you know that your feelings about others (non-whites/non-Asians) are rooted in hate not stress and certainly not in “the admissions process.”

 

[DrPavoreal]

I have to say, at least on SDN, the first statement is not true. How many affirmative action threads or just rude comments do there have to be over and over again?

These comments are not a product of “the admissions process”. Throughout our lives, we have all been competing against each other to get into the best junior high, high school, college, and professional schools. Once that ends, we are competing for jobs. That is the nature of our society. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard: "Well, she won that prize, got that fellowship, got that job, or got that raise because she is black." These statements are never OK.

In college, one of my white friends could barely read at a college level. I asked him jokingly, "How the hell did you get into college?" He said, "My dad and granddad went here, so here I am!!" That happens all the time. When someone gets a job because their dad knows the CEO or because their mom does some charity work with so and so, our society accepts it. Somehow, the children of the wealthy deserve more, but when people who have been oppressed and continue to be discriminated against get treatment that tries to level the playing field, it a huge scandal. C’mon, give me a break!

I really don't think the resentment and anger will "die down" ever. You don't say and believe that people are less than you on a whim. It’s something that stays with you for entire life. Those same premeds and going to be whispering in 10 or 20 years, "She got that position at X hospital because she is black" or, at that very least, thinking it.

By the time you are applying the med school (age 20-35) you KNOW the difference between right and wrong. You know, for some deep down, that harsh comments and belittling talk to NOT OK, and you know that your feelings about others (non-whites/non-Asians) are rooted in hate not stress and certainly not in “the admissions process.”

 

[LovelyMD]

I have to say, at least on SDN, the first statement is not true. How many affirmative action threads or just rude comments do there have to be over and over again?

These comments are not a product of “the admissions process”. Throughout our lives, we have all been competing against each other to get into the best junior high, high school, college, and professional schools. Once that ends, we are competing for jobs. That is the nature of our society. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard: "Well, she won that prize, got that fellowship, got that job, or got that raise because she is black." These statements are never OK.

In college, one of my white friends could barely read at a college level. I asked him jokingly, "How the hell did you get into college?" He said, "My dad and granddad went here, so here I am!!" That happens all the time. When someone gets a job because their dad knows the CEO or because their mom does some charity work with so and so, our society accepts it. Somehow, the children of the wealthy deserve more, but when people who have been oppressed and continue to be discriminated against get treatment that tries to level the playing field, it a huge scandal. C’mon, give me a break!

I really don't think the resentment and anger will "die down" ever. You don't say and believe that people are less than you on a whim. It’s something that stays with you for entire life. Those same premeds and going to be whispering in 10 or 20 years, "She got that position at X hospital because she is black" or, at that very least, thinking it.

By the time you are applying the med school (age 20-35) you KNOW the difference between right and wrong. You know, for some deep down, that harsh comments and belittling talk to NOT OK, and you know that your feelings about others (non-whites/non-Asians) are rooted in hate not stress and certainly not in “the admissions process.”

Exactly

Also, comments like "you n***er" and "you ***", which have been written on people's mdapps, don't miraculously appear out of nowhere. And even if we were to assume that these comments were somehow a "product of the admissions process," I don't know how these people are going to handle the many more difficult challenges on the road to becoming a doctor.

 

[MSKalltheway]

I honestly don't think that many premeds are racists. The comments are a product of the admissions process. I think the anger and resentment will die down once everyone is in med school.

You really just don't get it.

Very well said Boogsie. Kudos!

 

[riceman04]

In the end all that matters is performance in the classroom.

You will always have the doubters and the haters...but a superior academic performance trumps all that madness. Just tell those people to put their $$$ where their mouth is when it comes time to compete in the classroom.

Best of luck to all of you.

 

[Jesus DO]

What a moving and thought provoking thread this is. I don't know why I am going to write this, but for some strange reasons I feel like I need to. Please excuse me if it is off topic from the thread.

I think trying to get into the program you want is a huge and difficult task, and there is competition from every corner. So people are going to look for every opportunity to take their anger out on someone else, whom they - for some ignorant, misunderstood, or poorly thought out reason - think is not as qualified to be admitted to a program as they were. Then they, a moment where they are not in control of their cognitive function, makes some poor and primitive comment that just makes all parties get upset.

I read this thread and I felt people were upset and tired of so much misunderstanding. And I can really feel for you guys. A lot of times when I get upset or angry with someone, I find myself just trying to smile and putting on a polite tone. I say something nice and then find some way to exit the conversation I am in - and walk into the bathroom or maybe just call it a day and go to bed. But I kept getting upset over what they said, and pretty soon - I get so angry, that I catch myself wishing that the other person was dead! Then I worry if I am beggining to loose my mind because of other things people have said.

That's when I just get so exhausted. I keep saying to myself things like "it's not right, it's not right! What they said was so wrong!!" And I get so tired. Soon, I find that I have dug myself deeper into a psychological hole in the ground - and I keep digging the whole even deeper and deepers.

We might not be able to change what people think overnight, but I also keep saying to myself, if I can only make that person my friend - maybe - I can help myself and also that person. So after someone insults me behind my back - and I know it was real comment and not rumors - then I try to force myself to say something nice about that person behind their back. It's crazy, but I do it because if I said something mean or nasty in return - I'd be fighting fire with fire and it would only make the situation all the more worse. That person, who ever he or she is, might not like me - but I can try hard to like that person and love that person. I have some friends now, whom our relationship first started when that person made some terrible comment about me. It's so strange, in fact it is bizzare, but I feel that me and both that person have grown so much because I tried so hard to be friends with them - and eventually they realized they had misunderstandings, and they changed for the better. It's great!

So I feel that if someone whom we know makes an unwarrented comment behind our back, is treated nicely - he or she would eventually see that she has no reason to hold us in such an angry and misunderstanding comment.

Example, the lady who live under my apartment said: "Oh you're minority so you are lucky to get into this program." I didn't know what to say or how to respond. I must confess that I was completely flagstabbered by that comment. But I tried to say to myself, "give this person some love." It was hard; because of my stubborness getting in the way - but eventually we learned to get along. And she invited me for tea some time ago. It was great, we have really gotten to know each other better.

People might not show you love, but we can try to show them love. Now obviously we will run into people out there who will be uncompromising and mean spirited at every moment and no matter what we do, they will continue to put you or me down for no good reason. I know some people like that. They make me upset and sad, but those people are also people, so I feel like I need to love them as well - and I am always looking for an opportunity to help them or show them that I love them even though they steadfastly do not love me.

I am very sorry if what I have written here makes no sense, I just had to get it off my chest.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

In the end all that matters is performance in the classroom.

You will always have the doubters and the haters...but a superior academic performance trumps all that madness. Just tell those people to put their $$$ where their mouth is when it comes time to compete in the classroom.

Best of luck to all of you.

Well said.

 

[doctorperez]

The scariest part for me is that when you meet these people in person, they will smile directly into your face. How do you figure out who is friend or foe?

Exactly!

sad to see new students are leaving the same comments past students left for URMs in the past.

And yes, some of these are the ones that are now med students, interns etc and just smile at you...

 

[QofQuimica]

I hate seeing those comments too. I unsuccessfully tried to convince flaahless to delete his a few weeks ago, and I still think he (and the rest of you) should delete them.

Here is why I think you all should delete these comments. I understand that you can try to use them to motivate you to achieve more and go further, but I think seeing these messages on a regular basis does tear you down, even subtlely. There will be a part of you that worries, what if they're right? It also encourages other people to post even more vitriolic hate-filled messages like that, and things continue to escalate more and more out of control.

With regard to whether one of those people could be sitting next to you in class or treating your relatives, the unfortunate answer is yes. Medical students and physicians are no better or no worse than anyone else, and we are all a product of our upbringings to some degree. No one is immune from having their thinking influenced by the prejudices of the larger society, ironically including minorities. As for how you know who your true friends are, you will figure that out the first time you have some kind of difficulty and you see who does or does not stand by you. Most people are neither your friend nor your foe; they simply don't care about you at all. Sometimes that indifference can be more damaging than outright hostility, IMHO.

Boogie, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the legacy applicants.

 

[mdnsw]

These comments are not a product of “the admissions process”. Throughout our lives, we have all been competing against each other to get into the best junior high, high school, college, and professional schools. Once that ends, we are competing for jobs. That is the nature of our society. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard: "Well, she won that prize, got that fellowship, got that job, or got that raise because she is black." These statements are never OK.
”

There is a big difference between hateful comments directed at some of you personally and comments against the admissions process that systematically gives preferential treatment to URMs. The first is hateful and wrong, the second is nothing personal. Arguing against an unjust policy is the right thing to do; no hate involved.

 

[aaj117]

I hate seeing those comments too. I unsuccessfully tried to convince flaahless to delete his a few weeks ago, and I still think he (and the rest of you) should delete them.

Here is why I think you all should delete these comments. I understand that you can try to use them to motivate you to achieve more and go further, but I think seeing these messages on a regular basis does tear you down, even subtlely. There will be a part of you that worries, what if they're right? It also encourages other people to post even more vitriolic hate-filled messages like that, and things continue to escalate more and more out of control.

With regard to whether one of those people could be sitting next to you in class or treating your relatives, the unfortunate answer is yes. Medical students and physicians are no better or no worse than anyone else, and we are all a product of our upbringings to some degree. No one is immune from having their thinking influenced by the prejudices of the larger society, ironically including minorities. As for how you know who your true friends are, you will figure that out the first time you have some kind of difficulty and you see who does or does not stand by you. Most people are neither your friend nor your foe; they simply don't care about you at all. Sometimes that indifference can be more damaging than outright hostility, IMHO.

Boogie, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the legacy applicants.

I totally agree that seeing these that often will eventually wear people down, but at the same time at this point in life most people are probably pretty sure of how much they can handle. I personally know that i can't handle seeing them, so i delete all of mine. I respect flahhless's decision to leave the comments on. I think it might help to remind people how much hatred is still out there and how much still needs to change.

There is a big difference between hateful comments directed at some of you personally and comments against the admissions process that systematically gives preferential treatment to URMs. The first is hateful and wrong, the second is nothing personal. Arguing against an unjust policy is the right thing to do; no hate involved.

None of these are comments against the admissions process. You are right, there is a big difference between these two types of comments. But when people choose to leave comments on an individual's mdapps, use derogatory terms like n****r, they are hateful comments directed at us.

 

[GYN DOC]

Hey future aa docs! I've visited student doctor network many times and never thought about scanning the premed posts. Just thought I'd offer some advice - from someone who's been through it.

I'm an african american female pgy-1 resident in internal medicine. I boast being an alumni of one of the largest historically black colleges in the nation (somewhere in a little city called Tallahassee!) My husband and I moved together to the least diverse ciiy in the nation for grad school. You have to understand what a culture shock that was. My husband was the only african american male in a class of 200 law students. He originally had a hard time transitioning. Many of our fellow students were from rural areas in the state - people who'd never even spoken to a black person before attending college. A lot of people are genuinely eager to meet new people and learn from them but then you have those that are just completely ignorant and yes they will smile in your face. You ask yourself how am i supposed to discern these people from others - believe me you'll be able to. Its just passive aggressive racism - its like a malodorous stench in the room that no one wants to address but that everyone can smell. Nevertheless, you learn to deal with it and make aquaintances with those you know will help build you up. Wasting time being angry about those individuals does nothing but take time away from what you're supposed to be doing. Believe me your time will be very valuable in med school so use it wisely and realize that racisms still exists amongst an ignorant few - however people are progressing as the current polls entail. Voluntarily placing ourselves in a society dominated by elderly white males we're going to have a lot to face. I'm not expecting any handouts - I'm going to take whats mine. Just like i worked my butt off for my full academic scholarships to both undergrad and medical school - as did my husband- I'm going to work my but off in residency for whatever fellowship I want to get. For those ignorant people out there that say I got my education because of affirmative action or whatever - I tell them to look at the class graduation pictures on the walls in the medical school while they're walking in the halls and tell me in what decade do they see the first black person to graduate from this school. Our institution has every class graduation photo dating from the late 1800s "(when the school open) to present - the first african american graduated in 1991 - a century later!

A lot of you will be representing the first generation in your family to graduate from college and go to grad school. Many of your white peers will be part of the second or third generation in their families. As far as resources and mentors go they'll have a leg up. Many of my peers are working to take over their parents practices. They'll look at you and say why do you get certain types of scholarships, why are there programs geared to helping you take your boards or transition from undergrad to med school. Honestly, many of them wont understand why. You know why. You know your personal history and what you've had to struggle through to get to where you are. Just educate them and keep on toward your goal.

Good luck to all of you. Feel free to email me for anything -mcat, research,med school application,etc.

 

[BigRedPremed]

In the end all that matters is performance in the classroom.

You will always have the doubters and the haters...but a superior academic performance trumps all that madness. Just tell those people to put their $$$ where their mouth is when it comes time to compete in the classroom.

Best of luck to all of you.

Exactly. The best way to prove to the naysayers that you deserve your spot in med school or your scholarship or your fellowship or whatever is with superior performance.

I grew up in a predominantly African American neighborhood and my family made around $10,000 per year. Yes, I was in the poor kid in an all-black school. But, as I have said during my interviews, I wouldn't trade my background for anything. Adversity is what makes us strong.

 

[litldime]

i agree with what the above 2 poster said but kick a$$ for YOURSELF. You don't need to prove yourself to anyone. there will always be people who will doubt your skills and intelligence based on some farce or preconceived notion- to me this is motivation.

 

[freelove]

I totally agree that seeing these that often will eventually wear people down, but at the same time at this point in life most people are probably pretty sure of how much they can handle. I personally know that i can't handle seeing them, so i delete all of mine. I respect flahhless's decision to leave the comments on. I think it might help to remind people how much hatred is still out there and how much still needs to change.



None of these are comments against the admissions process. You are right, there is a big difference between these two types of comments. But when people choose to leave comments on an individual's mdapps, use derogatory terms like n****r, they are hateful comments directed at us.

I knew that I wouldn't be able to handle reading them, so honestly, I didn't even post an MDApps. Yeah... I know, its sad and probably cowardly of me, but I've been on SDN long enough to know how cruel some of these pre-meds can be. It hurts my feelings enough just seeing them on other people's pages, so I knew I wouldn't be able to see it on my own. I know how hard I've worked in undergrad and I've gotten love from some really great schools. I'm really proud of myself. Having someone just dismiss all the effort and sacrifice I've made would bother me, probably more than most. People need to realize that words do have an effect on people, and I'm medical school will be stressful enough without me having to second guess myself and my ability to handle because of what some idiot posted on my MDApps. I may put one up later because there is a lack of minority MDApps and I know there's a need for more... maybe.

 

[TobiasFunkeMDFACS]

"give this person some love"--that's a true reflection of MLK's and Ghandi's principles. If you feel that someone is racist, then it's your RESPONSIBILITY to change that person by "giving them some love." It is cowardice to complain, cry, or hate them back. Racism is a form of hate, and hate cannot be fought with hate.

We live in a society. We live among people. People can easily be changed and influenced. Mostly, they are very reasonable and rational. So, take advantage of this fact.

kudos to the person i quoted: "JESUS DO." You really mastered this race issue!

 

[TehDoc]

Blatantly jealous and its real ugly.

 

[caliprincess]

I knew that I wouldn't be able to handle reading them, so honestly, I didn't even post an MDApps. Yeah... I know, its sad and probably cowardly of me, but I've been on SDN long enough to know how cruel some of these pre-meds can be. It hurts my feelings enough just seeing them on other people's pages, so I knew I wouldn't be able to see it on my own. I know how hard I've worked in undergrad and I've gotten love from some really great schools. I'm really proud of myself. Having someone just dismiss all the effort and sacrifice I've made would bother me, probably more than most. People need to realize that words do have an effect on people, and I'm medical school will be stressful enough without me having to second guess myself and my ability to handle because of what some idiot posted on my MDApps. I may put one up later because there is a lack of minority MDApps and I know there's a need for more... maybe.

+1.....that's why I haven't posted my MDApps as well :-(

 

[justme456]

+1.....that's why I haven't posted my MDApps as well :-(

I didnt post one either.... I know I did very well and I didnt need crazy premeds telling me whether or not I deserved to get into medical school

 

[Tausi]

I'm a 4th year medical student now but I remember how disillusioned I felt when I was applying to med school. Never had I witnessed such overt and blatantly racist comments as I did on the SDN pre-med blogs. I remember being really worried about the covert sentiments of my future med school classmates. I remember being really conscious of this for the first few days of 1st year.
If it makes you feel any better, that lasted no more than a couple of days. We were all immediately thrust into the stress of 1st year and you realize quickly you are all on a level playing field. And it became very clear very early that race had nothing to do with how people performed in class. My URM classmates and my self did really well throughout the years with a few exceptions and I think our success spoke volumes; extinguishing any doubts if they had existed in the first place.
So bottom line is work hard and do as well as you know can in med school and it really doesn't matter what they think now. It will be hard for anyone to deny that you have as much right to be there as the next person.
If you browse the med school and residency blogs you'll notice that the hate posts are very rare. The best thing about the residency interview process is that you are granted an interview solely on the strength of your application and they are very clear about that. You will be hard pressed to encounter that kind of sentiment when you reach that level.

 

[Techmed07]

I'm a 4th year medical student now but I remember how disillusioned I felt when I was applying to med school. Never had I witnessed such overt and blatantly racist comments as I did on the SDN pre-med blogs. I remember being really worried about the covert sentiments of my future med school classmates. I remember being really conscious of this for the first few days of 1st year.
If it makes you feel any better, that lasted no more than a couple of days. We were all immediately thrust into the stress of 1st year and you realize quickly you are all on a level playing field. And it became very clear very early that race had nothing to do with how people performed in class. My URM classmates and my self did really well throughout the years with a few exceptions and I think our success spoke volumes; extinguishing any doubts if they had existed in the first place.
So bottom line is work hard and do as well as you know can in med school and it really doesn't matter what they think now. It will be hard for anyone to deny that you have as much right to be there as the next person.
If you browse the med school and residency blogs you'll notice that the hate posts are very rare. The best thing about the residency interview process is that you are granted an interview solely on the strength of your application and they are very clear about that. You will be hard pressed to encounter that kind of sentiment when you reach that level.

I am a URM, a freshmen and I just don't understand why our numbers our dismally lower. My brother will be applying to medical school next fall and his numbers are above average for both a URM and nonURM with ECs to match. My mom is a single parent she lost her job during my high school freshmen year, and his sophomore year and did not get a stable one in till recently. My dad is out of picture and we receive no child support. So, in a sense I know how adversity can affect academics, but to allow such a disparity in undergrad, I just don't get it.

 

[dilzmega]

can't spell as you can see. I first want to thank all of you for having the courage and drive to want to become a doctor. I usually post on valuemd witch is mainly for Caribbean/international schools and recently got into an argument about affirmative action. The students got mad when i posted some of my friend stats that got into US med school and they just assumed the were not Caucasian and began belittling them because of that but i set them strait cause one was caucasian and the other is Spanish. Me being a black man it offended me considerably. Then when I let hem know my stats and that I have three interviews they really got mad cause they didn't think i deserved to be interviewed. 2.84cum 3.1sci 29p mcat interviews at Meharry, Mich State and NYU. I tried to explain to them that just cause I get interviews does not mean I am going to get in. In fact I know the some of the people that are on the admin boards for these schools cause they are alumni of my school and they said that I am a product of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION when it is that I have a relation ship with these people so what do you think racist or just jealous

 

[dancinRN1022]

can't spell as you can see. I first want to thank all of you for having the courage and drive to want to become a doctor. I usually post on valuemd witch is mainly for Caribbean/international schools and recently got into an argument about affirmative action. The students got mad when i posted some of my friend stats that got into US med school and they just assumed the were not Caucasian and began belittling them because of that but i set them strait cause one was caucasian and the other is Spanish. Me being a black man it offended me considerably. Then when I let hem know my stats and that I have three interviews they really got mad cause they didn't think i deserved to be interviewed. 2.84cum 3.1sci 29p mcat interviews at Meharry, Mich State and NYU. I tried to explain to them that just cause I get interviews does not mean I am going to get in. In fact I know the some of the people that are on the admin boards for these schools cause they are alumni of my school and they said that I am a product of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION when it is that I have a relation ship with these people so what do you think racist or just jealous

who knows what motivates ppl to write negative things about ppl they don't know??...who knows what compels ppl to try to put down your accomplishments by saying you only got them because or being a urm??...

they could be racist, jealous, or just... bitter...unhappy ppl ...those who are self assured and content with their lives do not need to validate themselves by putting others down...they have their lives to live and they don't have time for that....

so with that being said..just do the best you can on your interviews and then go to med school and do well there and then become a doctor and go back to your neighborhood and show the kids there that we can do anything we put our minds to...

i can't say that i haven't had a couple of "heated debates" regarding my success this cycle...and i think i made my point clear...but there were only a few ppl who actually could pick me out in a crowd who said negative things...and they weren't even to my face...so i have learned to ignore them now...and

now i am startng to become really excited because i can't wait to start school...its going to be here before we know it....

 

[xeulee]

It just shows that there are pathetic people in every line of work. Before I thought that people who want to get into a profession where your job is to help people would be more friendly and not racist. SDN has proved me wrong. The sad fact is that some of these people are going to become doctors.

 

[Hottice1127]

Well....After reading all these deep and insightful posts, all I can say is that for all of us heading to Med-School, take all the critism, hatred, anger, and animosity and channel it into something productive. Use it as fuel for success. Don't dwell so much in the negative (but be careful) and try to make a positive contribution to the Healthcare profession. Also, remember, people can change. Sometimes all it takes is that one person to hold your hands and show you the other side of the fence. So, if possible,you be that person.