Does an MCAT requirement mean the school is better?

[brooks brother]

Hi, I'm wondering if there is a difference in outcomes between Caribbean schools that require the MCAT and those that don't. Like, do more students graduate and get residency positions from schools that have the MCAT as an entrance requirement?

I'm pre-med, done my undergrad and looking at the Caribbean as an option. I have a 3.3 gpa (4 point scale) and I'd rather not do a masters degree in order to increase my chances. I'm Canadian and my gpa is much lower than what I need to get into a Canadian medical school.

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[OwurayawMD]

Take the mcat score above 500 apply DO. exhaust all avenues before using Caribbean as last resort.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Foreign schools do not have to require the MCAT, so many don't use it for their admissions process. A few US and Canadian schools are moving away from it too.

The MCAT itself has no effect on you matching, graduating, or even your capability to get through the rigors of medical school. It's just a tool to help schools narrow down their applicant pool.

 

[gyngyn]

A few US and Canadian schools are moving away from it too.

Kindly name one US MD school for which OP is a candidate, that does not require the MCAT.

 

[Goro]

Hi, I'm wondering if there is a difference in outcomes between Caribbean schools that require the MCAT and those that don't. Like, do more students graduate and get residency positions from schools that have the MCAT as an entrance requirement?

I'm pre-med, done my undergrad and looking at the Caribbean as an option. I have a 3.3 gpa (4 point scale) and I'd rather not do a masters degree in order to increase my chances. I'm Canadian and my gpa is much lower than what I need to get into a Canadian medical school.

Those lip smacking sounds you hear off in the distance are the Carib schools lusting after the thought of yet another mark.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Kindly name one US MD school for which OP is a candidate, that does not require the MCAT.

OP is Canadian. Their GPA is too low for any traditional med school, especially with the competition in Canada. I am not Canadian myself but I believe Canadian med schools like McGill do not require MCAT.

 

[gyngyn]

A few US and Canadian schools are moving away from it too.

OP is Canadian. Their GPA is too low for any traditional med school, especially with the competition in Canada. I am not Canadian myself but I believe Canadian med schools like McGill do not require MCAT.

There are no US schools (for which OP is a candidate) that do not require the MCAT.

 

[Allosteopath]

Hey OP, is your GPA showing significant upward trend in final 2-3 years of your undergraduate? Many schools here in Canada will specifically look at those years when considering your application. Aside from that, you really should take MCAT, at least to see where you fall.

School examples:

Dalhousie = Last 2
Western (Schulich) = Last 2 ( I believe)
Ottawa = 3/5 (Weighted with most recent year being the heaviest)


Canada also occasionally offers a military route to family medicine for IMGs who have participated in CaRMS with no success, but you still would need to get through medical school first.

 

[deleted962973]

There are no US schools (for which OP is a candidate) that do not require the MCAT.

This wouldn't apply for OP, but there are a couple BS/MDs that allow admission to the medical school without having to take the MCAT.

 

[gyngyn]

This wouldn't apply for OP, but there are a couple BS/MDs that allow admission to the medical school without having to take the MCAT.

That is correct.

 

[BaskingTurtle]

Foreign schools do not have to require the MCAT, so many don't use it for their admissions process. A few US and Canadian schools are moving away from it too.

The MCAT itself has no effect on you matching, graduating, or even your capability to get through the rigors of medical school. It's just a tool to help schools narrow down their applicant pool.

To back up what EmeraldDragon was saying, elimination of the MCAT requirement is in no way a reflection of the quality of the school. McGill, case in point, is an outstanding school, and does not require it. Other places ARE following suit.

"Fortunately for non-traditional pre-med students, the MCAT is becoming a thing of the past.
At least, it is at McGill.
Applicants from Canadian universities are no longer required to write the exam."

Read this article from 9 years ago for more information. The commenters on this thread are behind the times:

McGill eliminates MCAT requirement - Macleans.ca

Claims the exam creates unequal access for Francophone applicants

www.macleans.ca

 

[BaskingTurtle]

The OP is on a Caribbean section of the forum, and some Caribbean schools don't require the MCAT, at least for Canadian applicants. Having said that, however, some schools, like Saba, don't require anything except a pass on an undergraduate degree and a few key courses, nothing else, no cutoff GPA, no MCAT, nada. You will, however, have to give them the cost of tuition for the privilege of being able to study for the Step 1 completely on your own, self-taught. In addition, you might be kicked out of the school half way through your stay on the island because a landlord couldn't get an extra few thousand in illegal payments off you, so there is that. Then you will be out 100 grand and still not be able to write Step (so most people pay the extortion fees). All in all, if you have other options, do try to follow up on them. If not, bring an extra wallet of money with you for the extortion payments you will be forced to make in the Caribbean (at least on Saba) for the privilege of completing the program so you have the privilege of leaving and studying on your own, having learnt nothing.

I am speaking specifically of Saba with respect to the extortion, but it's a big problem there and it has not yet been stopped. In fact last semester at least half the students on Saba said they had experienced it, and it's a reason people are leaving because you could lose everything regardless of whether you are getting top marks. Be very careful when choosing schools if you choose to study in the Caribbean. Exhaust all other options and DO NOT under any circumstances even attempt going to Saba. You could be brilliant and still lose $100,000 with nothing at all to show for it. And it will have nothing to do with you. It's a scam, 100%.

 

[gyngyn]

To back up what EmeraldDragon was saying, elimination of the MCAT requirement is in no way a reflection of the quality of the school. McGill, case in point, is an outstanding school, and does not require it. Other places ARE following suit.
"Fortunately for non-traditional pre-med students, the MCAT is becoming a thing of the past.
At least, it is at McGill.

Mcgill has nothing in common with the Caribbean schools that do not require the MCAT.

 

[BaskingTurtle]

Mcgill has nothing in common with the Caribbean schools that do not require the MCAT.

Absolutely!!! That could never be stressed enough. That's why elimination of the MCAT isn't a criteria on which to base judgement.

The point is that since Canadians don't have to write it, and Canadian schools have been moving away from it for years, Caribbean schools (the topic of the OP) don't necessarily require it, because they want to attract Canadians. If you have attended a Caribbean school, you will notice that the top students of every class are Canadian students, so the Caribbean schools do everything they can to get Canadians down there. It boosts their pass rate because the academic level of Canadians that can't make it into a med school in Canada is substantially higher than Americans that can't make it in in USA, because USA has so many more med schools per capita. At the same time they don't turn anyone away at some of these Caribbean schools, so the more things they can do to attract Canadians, the better for them.

 

[gyngyn]

Absolutely!!! That could never be stressed enough. That's why elimination of the MCAT isn't a criteria on which to base judgement.

The point is that since Canadians don't have to write it, and Canadian schools have been moving away from it for years, Caribbean schools (the topic of the OP) don't necessarily require it, because they want to attract Canadians. If you have attended a Caribbean school, you will notice that the top students of every class are Canadian students, so the Caribbean schools do everything they can to get Canadians down there. It boosts their pass rate because the academic level of Canadians that can't make it into a med school in Canada is substantially higher than Americans that can't make it in in USA, because USA has so many more med schools per capita. At the same time they don't turn anyone away at some of these Caribbean schools, so the more things they can do to attract Canadians, the better for them.

Now I see... Thanks for the clarification.

 

[brooks brother]

Hey OP, is your GPA showing significant upward trend in final 2-3 years of your undergraduate? Many schools here in Canada will specifically look at those years when considering your application. Aside from that, you really should take MCAT, at least to see where you fall.

School examples:

Dalhousie = Last 2
Western (Schulich) = Last 2 ( I believe)
Ottawa = 3/5 (Weighted with most recent year being the heaviest)


Canada also occasionally offers a military route to family medicine for IMGs who have participated in CaRMS with no success, but you still would need to get through medical school first.

Thank you for the details. My GPA trend is upward but only slightly. I've looked at the military and I'm considering it.

 

[brooks brother]

From the information that I've gathered, I don't think an MCAT requirement means that the school is higher quality than one that doesn't. Some Canadian schools have moved away from using it, but I know this doesn't mean much to those in the American system. My goal was to come up with some sort of barometer of Caribbean school quality, so that I could have details I could base my decisions on. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[Emmet2301]

^If you're looking for school quality I would like at things like attrition rate, how many people go on to residencies, when they get a residency, tuition and fees etc. Good luck.

 

[DocPryor]

For the Caribbean schools, MCAT doesnt mean a thing. The bigger schools may use it as a way to weed out students if they have too many applicants. Do take the MCAT. Any international (Non US and Canada) should be a last resort (like many have stated in this thread). As far as outcomes are concerned, Ross and SGU have been around since the 70s so they have a lot of doctors in the US. So I would assume, getting residency would be easier. I do think an easy way to look at how good the school is in the Caribbean is:
1) Are they accredited (I believe there are two regional accreditors CAAMHP and ACCM. The school should be accredited by at least one)
2) How long have they been around. The longer they have been in existence the better the chances of you finding a program director who went to your school. (some of the older schools of the top of my head are Ross, SGU, Spartan, St. James, Saba,UMHS)
3) Please do not depend on forums to make a decision. Look at facts. I just read a forum about one of these schools having an 80%+ attrition. I can believe that for small unaccredited schools but some of the bigger schools cant have that due to accreditation reasons. So please do not get influenced by these forums. However, these are good sources to do further research.
4) Reach out to people who have gone to the Caribbean. For example, if you choose Saba, ask them for a phone or email of a current student. Do the same for other schools. Mind you, the schools may pay a commission to the student you speak to if you start, but at least its a real person.
5) Look up the owners. Most smaller Caribbean schools are run by individuals or families. Find the name and google that person. If you find anything bad about them, any scams etc.....STAY AWAY. But first, please do your own independent research.
6) Long story short....if you work hard, nothing can stop you. I went to Poland, matched in an inner city community hospital and am about to finish my residency in FM. It seems like ur a good student.....just dont give up.