Doctors underpaid

[CV2MD]

I agree that money isn’t everything, but its damn important!! Whoever says that they don’t care about the money is ridiculous. I want to be a physician, and I bet half of the doctors out there wouldn’t have put their family on hold for so long for $50,000 p/yr. Of course not!! Now someone who is making $300,000 a yr should be living just fine...At least after they pay off their loans...To me money is VERY important and Doctors should be compensated appropriately... I don’t think I would go into a profession knowing that Ill be $150 $200 k's in debt and only making $50 or $100 K p/yr....That’s just the truth...I need to know that Ill be able to pay off my loans, mortgage, car payment, children’s tuition, children’s prepaid college fund, retirement, take care of my parents when they are older etc...At least where I live (Miami) everything is so expensive, $100,000 p/yr, p/household just isn’t enough anymore.....

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[mikedoc]

What about dentists making more money than physicians?

Do you guys think that's fair?

General dentist makes more than general physician and dental specialists income (with only 2 years of residency) compares well to medical specialists.

Getting into medical school is harder than getting into dental school and residency is more rigorous in medical than dental.

What do you guys think about this? The only thing physicians have better than dentists seems to be prestige, which can be important and, to some people, very important.

 

[8744]

Well i think carrers should be payed accordingly aswell .. You cant compare acting with medicine , law, etc... i think at least 50% of the money earned by entertainers should go to the government and be used for something else. actors dont need that much cash, whether they decide to take this "risk" or not. acting=relaxing.. poking around in someones head all the time =nerve wrecking and time consuming

I weep for the youth of today. The notion that people should be paid what they deserve caused more death and misery in the 20th century than all of the combined religious wars, pogroms, and inquisitions of every century before.

Don't count other people's chips. There are a lot of people who think that physicians don't deserve to make what they make and would love to knock you down a peg or two if you give them a precedent.

 

[notdeadyet]

I bet half of the doctors out there wouldn't have put their family on hold for so long for $50,000 p/yr. Of course not!!

Folks in the military do it for far less than $50K.

I don't think I would go into a profession knowing that Ill be $150 $200 k's in debt and only making $50 or $100 K p/yr....

I know pediatricians who make around $100K.

Lots of folks are driven to medicine for very different reasons. Money should be a concern, because compassion doesn't cover rent, but folks have different priorities. There are folks out there willing to put their lives on hold for many long years for the sake of making less than $100K and incurring big debt. Ain't pretty, but they do exist.

 

[solitude]

The notion that people should be paid what they deserve caused more death and misery in the 20th century than all of the combined religious wars, pogroms, and inquisitions of every century before.

I'm not sure that I agree. Could you expound on this?

 

[MossPoh]

I weep for the youth of today. The notion that people should be paid what they deserve caused more death and misery in the 20th century than all of the combined religious wars, pogroms, and inquisitions of every century before.

Don't count other people's chips. There are a lot of people who think that physicians don't deserve to make what they make and would love to knock you down a peg or two if you give them a precedent.

While I agree with this...one thing should change. Either they stop lowering reimbursment or medschools lower tuition. A major attractive part to medicine in the US is the money....I don't believe in the being entitled to something crap, but if the us is sooooooooo worried about a doctor shortage then they need to stop making it such an unappealing field to be in. Seems like hollywood is making it sexy, of course then you get a bunch of people that halfass it because they want it to be like grey's anatomy or something.

 

[RPedigo]

Oh comon surely your not telling me money isnt a factor for u? you know theres ALOT more jobs out there where u get to help people and get paid nothing so why not do that instead?

im sick of people who say money isnt an issue for them to look good here but it is whether they wanna admit it or not..

i just find it unfair when HARD WORKING surgeons WORK THEIR **** OFF TO GET IN MED SCHOOL and become surgeons and have AN 18 OR EVEN YOUNGER ACT IN A MOVIE AND EARN MORE THAN THEY DOCTOR WILL IN HIS LIFETIME.

a reasonable society we live in huh?

First off, getting your point across works vastly better when you appear to have a grasp of the English language.

And yes, of course money is "a motivating factor" for me, if by "a motivating factor" you mean "I would like to provide for my family" and not "bling bling ridin' on spinnaz". I don't care about living lavishly, I care about having a career that I personally would enjoy, one that requires intelligence and contact with people, and one that can pay my bills. Medicine satisfies all these requirements.

Why would I need more than $150,000 to $300,000 a year?

Motivation is motivation. If their motivation is money, then good for them. If your motivation is to watch people's watery stool drip, then good for you.

Money doesn't make one happy. Money may be a prerequisite for happiness (because being financially unstable = unhappy), but it does not guarantee happiness. The money doctors make, for me, is enough to satisfy that prerequisite. However, being a doctor would also make me enjoy my job (and thus life), which will encompass 50-60 hours a week. That's way more important.

 

[PhantomfanMD]

ok guys i know money isnt something doctors usualy enjoy discussing however plz tell me what u think of doctors salary compared to acting salary..

dont u find it absolutly ridiculouse when 18 or so year olds like lindsay lohan ( just an example) star in a movie and earn 20m ??

whereas the highest paid Doctor profession get a maximum of 1m per year ( now remember it ranges from 300k-600k usually, so 1m is very rare)

not to mention the years of hard work they put into getting in medschool and even risking getting sued if something goes wrong and having their liscense provoked and so on .. ( as much as we hate to say it it has happened in alot of cases :/ )

i think all doctors shopuld go on strike until either actors get paid less OR Surgeons get paid 20m a year.

This country has a health care crisis as it already is. Paying a doctor 20 million dollars each year would worsen this problem!

 

[G.O.A.T.]

dont u find it absolutly ridiculouse when 18 or so year olds like lindsay lohan ( just an example) star in a movie and earn 20m ??

the only thing i find "ridiculouse" is your spelling. when i am so stressed out from medical school that i just can't take it anymore, nothing takes me to my happy place like the theatrical masterpiece "Mean Girls". if doctors earned $20 mil, then lindsay lohan would probably be a doctor and i would have to unwind by watching someone who had absolutely no acting skills whatsoever, unlike ms. lohan.

 

[Arc]

Oh comon surely your not telling me money isnt a factor for u? you know theres ALOT more jobs out there where u get to help people and get paid nothing so why not do that instead?

im sick of people who say money isnt an issue for them to look good here but it is whether they wanna admit it or not..

i just find it unfair when HARD WORKING surgeons WORK THEIR **** OFF TO GET IN MED SCHOOL and become surgeons and have AN 18 OR EVEN YOUNGER ACT IN A MOVIE AND EARN MORE THAN THEY DOCTOR WILL IN HIS LIFETIME.

a reasonable society we live in huh?

Like other people said before, no one has much of a problem paying to see someone act (a movie), have someone's name on their chest (designer clothes) or watch a sports game ( Football anyone..?), but when it comes time to health care and teachers, they want it for free. If any profession is underpaid I think it would be teachers. Where will the world be without teachers?

 

[G.O.A.T.]

Like other people said before, no one has much of a problem paying to see someone act (a movie), have someone's name on their chest (designer clothes) or watch a sports game ( Football anyone..?), but when it comes time to health care and teachers, they want it for free. If any profession is underpaid I think it would be teachers. Where will the world be without teachers?

i disagree with teachers being underpaid, not because i think it is an unimportant job but because everyone i know who couldn't get a job after college became teachers. seriously, i have like 5 friends who did this. none of them wanted to become teachers, but the couldn't get a job and teaching jobs are so easy to get especially with emergency certification in my state. teaching pays comparable salaries to other jobs which only require a bachelors, except maybe engineering. but without engineers there would be no schools, so i guess that works out.

edit: i know it is very un-pc to say teachers should not get paid more, but i hate pc.

 

[sirus_virus]

First off, getting your point across works vastly better when you appear to have a grasp of the English language.

And yes, of course money is "a motivating factor" for me, if by "a motivating factor" you mean "I would like to provide for my family" and not "bling bling ridin' on spinnaz". I don't care about living lavishly, I care about having a career that I personally would enjoy, one that requires intelligence and contact with people, and one that can pay my bills. Medicine satisfies all these requirements.

Why would I need more than $150,000 to $300,000 a year?




Money doesn't make one happy. Money may be a prerequisite for happiness (because being financially unstable = unhappy), but it does not guarantee happiness. The money doctors make, for me, is enough to satisfy that prerequisite. However, being a doctor would also make me enjoy my job (and thus life), which will encompass 50-60 hours a week. That's way more important.

Agreed but how about 60-80K? At the present trend by the time you are practicing there will be a good chunk of
physicians making just that.
I don't know about you guys but I personally want more "money grubber" doctors to join this field. Think about all the forces negating doctors wages today(insurance companies, congress,lawyers, medicare/medicaid etc). These guys are waiting for any opportunity to crash doctors' pay, and there is no limit to how far they will go. It is the "money grubbers" that will have the presence of mind and agressiveness to fight these forces and maybe protect the financial viability of this field."I am not doing it for the money" might sound very noble but congress and insurance companies translate that as "I don't mind a cut in reimbursement" and they will probably continue to do that. I saw a congressman on TV the other day outright say doctors were overpayed, you think that guy is not waiting to slash reimbursements?
This is exactly how teachers got railroaded to the point they are now(noble profession but no money), older teachers will tell you how they went through the whole "we are not in it for the money" era and the government ofcourse said "thank you very much we will keep our money". If we practice medicine like monks we might end up getting paid like monks.

 

[luv2sd]

lol 60-80K?

maybe some rural doctors who just diagnose stuff but not surgeons

whatever the current trend is, the salaries for surgeons will go up, not down, in the future

just imagine what would happen if surgeons go on strike

 

[sirus_virus]

lol 60-80K?

maybe some rural doctors who just diagnose stuff but not surgeons

whatever the current trend is, the salaries for surgeons will go up, not down, in the future

just imagine what would happen if surgeons go on strike

If they don't care about money they probably will never go on strike. Physician salaries across the board have seen a decline.http://www.hschange.org/CONTENT/851/

 

[Gunz580]

A couple things I haven't read about, although I just skimmed through, is the possibility of an additional income through a relationship, and investing. If you can make it through med school, then you should be smart enough to invest in stocks, 401k's and such. I have money in stock for a company that working on producing a new brand of insulin. If this hits, then then the share value will explode, naturally becuase of the diabetic epidemic. Also, I think most people talk about money in comparison to millionaires. I know I would have a hard time spending 150k/yr.

 

[aglaiaer]

.

 

[sirus_virus]

A couple things I haven't read about, although I just skimmed through, is the possibility of an additional income through a relationship, and investing. If you can make it through med school, then you should be smart enough to invest in stocks, 401k's and such. I have money in stock for a company that working on producing a new brand of insulin. If this hits, then then the share value will explode, naturally becuase of the diabetic epidemic. Also, I think most people talk about money in comparison to millionaires. I know I would have a hard time spending 150k/yr.

No you won't

 

[sirus_virus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/01/opinion/01fri2.html?pagewanted=print

"We should worry about the effects on society as a whole when members of the educated elite think they are grossly underpaid."

Doctors are not getting paid enough for the crap they have to go through to become doctors. It is not like medschool is free either. We should be more concerned for a society that has inverted priorities where the educational elite might not get compensated for hardwork.

 

[Towelie]

Doctors are not getting paid enough for the crap they have to go through to become doctors. It is not like medschool is free either. We should be more concerned for a society that has inverted priorities where the educational elite might not get compensated for hardwork.

You guys need to stop being such cry babies. Primary care docs make 130-180K mid career, and specialists make 200-400K. That's a lot of money--way more than you need to live a modest lifestyle and take care of a family. If it's not enough for you, then DO SOMETHING ELSE. If you're in this for the money, you will be miserable and unsatisfied for your entire career.

 

[aglaiaer]

.

 

[Pkboi24]

Like other people said before, no one has much of a problem paying to see someone act (a movie), have someone's name on their chest (designer clothes) or watch a sports game ( Football anyone..?), but when it comes time to health care and teachers, they want it for free. If any profession is underpaid I think it would be teachers. Where will the world be without teachers?

The reason is because health is an essential need. Whatever else you might want in life - movies, shirts, cars - you also need health to enjoy them. Relative health between individuals also dictates the level of equality when it comes to opportunities. Since the US is a country in which everyone is suppose to be created equal, it's a small wonder why people take healthcare for granted. All in all, the US still does a better job of taking care of its people than most developing nations, but considering that it's the wealthiest nation in the world, I don't suppose that says much.

 

[sirus_virus]

You guys need to stop being such cry babies. Primary care docs make 130-180K mid career, and specialists make 200-400K. That's a lot of money--way more than you need to live a modest lifestyle and take care of a family. If it's not enough for you, then DO SOMETHING ELSE. If you're in this for the money, you will be miserable and unsatisfied for your entire career.

The question is not how much they make today, but how much will they make in the future? and who will protect doctors' income so that you can keep being satisfied with your 130k? certainly not passive guys like you.

 

[Towelie]

The question is not how much they make today, but how much will they make in the future? and who will protect doctors' income so that you can keep being satisfied with 130k? certainly not passive guys like you.

I'm going into medicine because I think that I will enjoy it, NOT because of the income. If I wanted to make money I would go to wall street or do something else. Even with a fairly substantial decline in income, physicians would still make more than enough to satisfy me (I don't know about you, but from my background, $100K is a ton of money). It's not as if physicians' incomes are going to drop to $30K or something.

I support universal healthcare. So I guess I'm not out to "protect" physicians' salaries--I would prefer to see a country where everyone was happy with their access to healthcare. But that's just me.

If physicians' salaries do tank, there are still plenty of ways to make additional money with an MD. There are many lucrative areas of business and consulting in which you could do part time work, or you could do expert witness work. Although none of these things interest me, you might want to consider them, given your interest in financial gain.

 

[Pkboi24]

The question is not how much they make today, but how much will they make in the future? and who will protect doctors' income so that you can keep being satisfied with 130k? certainly not passive guys like you.

You make a good point. I feel that the decline in doctor's salary is unreasonable as well, especially since the US is growing into such a service oriented economy. We get everything made in China, Taiwan, or Mexico. Manual labor jobs are taken up by those less educated or just immigrated. The field of highly-skilled professions have had raises in their salaries for years. Physician pay-cuts don't make sense. We are one of the most highly educated groups of professionals in society. I'm not trying to be arrogant here, but our salaries should rise or lower in direct proportion to the rest of the economy. More people have money, more people pay for healthcare out of their own pockets. It should not be the opposite. I do believe, however, that this trend will stop in the future. Most likely, it'll be the middle of our careers. The middle class is growing more rapidly than ever. People don't want crappy, inefficient, half-assed socialized medicine. US citizens have a tendency to believe that they deserve the best that money can buy. As a result, doctors will HAVE to be paid more if they are to keep up in numbers with the growing population.

For the record, I would be completely fine with a decrease in pay if it meant a corresponding decrease in work load.

 

[Slide]

Agreed but how about 60-80K? At the present trend by the time you are practicing there will be a good chunk of
physicians making just that.
I don't know about you guys but I personally want more "money grubber" doctors to join this field. Think about all the forces negating doctors wages today(insurance companies, congress,lawyers, medicare/medicaid etc). These guys are waiting for any opportunity to crash doctors' pay, and there is no limit to how far they will go. It is the "money grubbers" that will have the presence of mind and agressiveness to fight these forces and maybe protect the financial viability of this field."I am not doing it for the money" might sound very noble but congress and insurance companies translate that as "I don't mind a cut in reimbursement" and they will probably continue to do that. I saw a congressman on TV the other day outright say doctors were overpayed, you think that guy is not waiting to slash reimbursements?
This is exactly how teachers got railroaded to the point they are now(noble profession but no money), older teachers will tell you how they went through the whole "we are not in it for the money" era and the government ofcourse said "thank you very much we will keep our money". If we practice medicine like monks we might end up getting paid like monks.

I agree with this. Money should obviously not be the driving factor, but should still be taken into consideration when evaluating the profession as a whole. As an article quoted from New York Times, it's disheartening to discover at your homecoming gathering after college that students half as motivated and lazier/less intelligent are making 10 times more money than you. If all physicians continue with the trend that "we're honestly not in it for the money" and "money isn't important to us one bit", then insurance companies and the government will hold us to that.

 

[dannylee718]

yeah, i totally need 10million dollars right now.

folks, just do what you love.
if its money that you love, maybe medicine isn't the way to go.

in my case, i love fatty tissue and blood... medicine is perfect for me.

 

[sirus_virus]

I'm going into medicine because I think that I will enjoy it, NOT because of the income. If I wanted to make money I would go to wall street or do something else. Even with a fairly substantial decline in income, physicians would still make more than enough to satisfy me (I don't know about you, but from my background, $100K is a ton of money). It's not as if physicians' incomes are going to drop to $30K or something.

I support universal healthcare. So I guess I'm not out to "protect" physicians' salaries--I would prefer to see a country where everyone was happy with their access to healthcare. But that's just me.

If physicians' salaries do tank, there are still plenty of ways to make additional money with an MD. There are many lucrative areas of business and consulting in which you could do part time work, or you could do expert witness work. Although none of these things interest me, you might want to consider them, given your interest in financial gain.

Better yet I could just start up a PP and employ your cheap labor.
"I would prefer to see a country where everyone was happy with their access to healthcare" Is that what you are spilling at your medschool interviews? Look people have more "access" to healthcare than you think. As a matter of fact the have so much "access" to healthcare that the can now "access" your pocket directly through med mal. And you really don't think physicians' income can go as low as 30k, tell that to the doctor who after a bad med mal case is left with 40k after paying his new insurance premiums. My question remains-- In the midst of all this self-righteousness, who is going to fight for doctors?

 

[TheWowEffect]

i disagree with teachers being underpaid, not because i think it is an unimportant job but because everyone i know who couldn't get a job after college became teachers. seriously, i have like 5 friends who did this. none of them wanted to become teachers, but the couldn't get a job and teaching jobs are so easy to get especially with emergency certification in my state. teaching pays comparable salaries to other jobs which only require a bachelors, except maybe engineering. but without engineers there would be no schools, so i guess that works out.

edit: i know it is very un-pc to say teachers should not get paid more, but i hate pc.

This is such a paradox. The reason that these people are going into teaching and not the more gifted and intelligent ones is exactly why teachers should be paid more. Teaching needs to attract better talent with higher salaries.

 

[aglaiaer]

.

 

[45408]

I know I would have a hard time spending 150k/yr.

bwahahahaha. Yeah, right. After the government takes its $40,000 bite out of there, and you pay for your mortgage, property taxes, utilities, car payment, car/health/life/homeowner's insurance (my parents monthly health insurance premium is $2000), food, clothing, medical bills, and then all of those things for your children, your retirement, savings, kids college fund, and then some, it goes a whole lot faster than you think. I think a lot of you guys underestimate what the average suburban family burns through in a year, especially if you live in California, where an average house can run you half a million dollars.

 

[sirus_virus]

actually, yes. in my interviews i like to talk about social inequity, specifically regarding access to health care, and how i hope to help combat it. i don't feel the need to "protect doctors income" or "fight for doctors," who earn salaries well above the poverty line and typically in the upper class range.

Somewhere in the middle of getting hazed during your medical education you are going to look back and see how ridiculous this "Robin hood" attitude is.

 

[Pkboi24]

bwahahahaha. Yeah, right. After the government takes its $40,000 bite out of there, and you pay for your mortgage, property taxes, utilities, car payment, car/health/life/homeowner's insurance (my parents monthly health insurance premium is $2000), food, clothing, medical bills, and then all of those things for your children, your retirement, savings, kids college fund, and then some, it goes a whole lot faster than you think. I think a lot of you guys underestimate what the average suburban family burns through in a year, especially if you live in California, where an average house can run you half a million dollars.

It's true. I often wonder how people live with salaries less than 150k...

 

[Trismegistus4]

Agreed but how about 60-80K? At the present trend by the time you are practicing there will be a good chunk of
physicians making just that.
I don't know about you guys but I personally want more "money grubber" doctors to join this field. Think about all the forces negating doctors wages today(insurance companies, congress,lawyers, medicare/medicaid etc). These guys are waiting for any opportunity to crash doctors' pay, and there is no limit to how far they will go. It is the "money grubbers" that will have the presence of mind and agressiveness to fight these forces and maybe protect the financial viability of this field."I am not doing it for the money" might sound very noble but congress and insurance companies translate that as "I don't mind a cut in reimbursement" and they will probably continue to do that. I saw a congressman on TV the other day outright say doctors were overpayed, you think that guy is not waiting to slash reimbursements?
This is exactly how teachers got railroaded to the point they are now(noble profession but no money), older teachers will tell you how they went through the whole "we are not in it for the money" era and the government ofcourse said "thank you very much we will keep our money". If we practice medicine like monks we might end up getting paid like monks.

The thing about the comparison to teachers is that teachers never made much money. It's not like teachers can look back on the golden days of education when they pulled in big bucks, and were considered prestigious pillars of their community. If anything, teachers get more respect now that they have recast themselves as a "profession" rather than a job a young lady might take for a few years before she gets married.

I agree with you, though, that we need more doctors who care about the money. Medical schools have been selecting against such people by focusing on "soft" qualities like volunteerism, well-roundedness, and knowledgeable motivation to study medicine, rather than on pure numbers. This is producing an ever-growing population of doctors who are willing to sell out the profession for what they consider the greater good (e.g., "If I work for free, health care will be more affordable!") They are also admitting 50% women, who often wind up caring more about their maternity leave and being able to leave work in time to pick up the kids than about the long-term future of medicine. And can you blame the med schools? They are run by doctors who often resent private practitioners for making more money than they do.

Doctors need to band together. Public perception lags so far behind reality that by the time public perception catches up, it may be too late to do anything about the problem. Like the congressman who said doctors make too much money, Joe Sixpack still perceives doctors as rich, Benz-driving, country-club-belonging, mansion-living, vacation-home-owning snobs. When the public hears doctors complaining about declining incomes, the most common reaction is "Cry me a river! If I made half as much as they make, I'd be on the beach in Fiji right now!" Doctors can't place their hope in public sympathy.

 

[aglaiaer]

Somewhere in the middle of getting hazed during your medical education you are going to look back and see how ridiculous this "Robin hood" attitude is.

dude, when the revolution comes we know which side you're on

 

[Chuckwalla]

I agree that if teachers got paid more than people who actually want to be teachers and would make great teachers would chose that career path.

I have thought about becoming a teacher. I am very good at explaining things to people and get a great sense of satisfaction when people understand something I taught them. But the pay is so bad. Sure you may be able to live on it now but look at what is going on, the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer, including the middle and even upper middle class. In the near future teachers will be going pay check to pay check. Actually some of mine acutally were and the school I went to was in no way impoverished.

This same trend is happening to doctors and hell everyone except those high up in business. Doctors are just seen as employees like most of America and thus a cost. Business success results from cutting costs. Doctors get paid a lot more though so they have a buffer to this trend. However I think it will just be a matter of time before doctors really become hurt too. The price of med school is going up drastically, the pay of physicians is going down. The actual numbers are going down, this on top of inflation. As much as people hate to believe it, business just see people like PAs and NPs as cheaper doctors and thus better. That's the reason these fields are booming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

The US sits 73 in the world for economic equality, that's well into the bottom 50 percent. Look at the great company we have, mostly third world countries. Keep in mind this was in 2000, before Dubya took office. You can bet it is even worse now.

 

[szhao]

lol yea haha, i mean too much money doesn't make you happier, unless that is all you caried about, which you will find a rude awakening once you obtain that degree of wealth. as long as i can cover my bills, support my family to McDonald every couple of weekend, get a decent house and a decent car i will be happy. why would i want 20million dollars, what am i going to do buy my wife a 19.8million dollar ring and just to have her loss it, no way.

 

[PEN15]

It's true. I often wonder how people live with salaries less than 150k...

depends on where you live. if you live in California, then you're considered poor. it's ridiculous how much people pay for real estate in California. my friend makes over 100K a year and he still complains about how he's barely getting by.

 

[sirus_virus]

I agree that if teachers got paid more than people who actually want to be teachers and would make great teachers would chose that career path.

I have thought about becoming a teacher. I am very good at explaining things to people and get a great sense of satisfaction when people understand something I taught them. But the pay is so bad. Sure you may be able to live on it now but look at what is going on, the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer, including the middle and even upper middle class. In the near future teachers will be going pay check to pay check. Actually some of mine acutally were and the school I went to was in no way impoverished.

This same trend is happening to doctors and hell everyone except those high up in business. Doctors are just seen as employees like most of America and thus a cost. Business success results from cutting costs. Doctors get paid a lot more though so they have a buffer to this trend. However I think it will just be a matter of time before doctors really become hurt too. The price of med school is going up drastically, the pay of physicians is going down. The actual numbers are going down, this on top of inflation. As much as people hate to believe it, business just see people like PAs and NPs as cheaper doctors and thus better. That's the reason these fields are booming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

The US sits 73 in the world for economic equality, that's well into the bottom 50 percent. Look at the great company we have, mostly third world countries. Keep in mind this was in 2000, before Dubya took office. You can bet it is even worse now.

Yes, and passive self-righteous "I don't want any money" doctors are going to accelerate the process way faster than we think

 

[Slide]

The fact of the matter is that if you're the typical middle-class premed/med student that doesn't have a trust fund that can cushion your financial woes, money will eventually play a part in the medical profession and you yourself. Though being a physician is considered a profession that isn't out there strictly for money, practicing medicine, like any other profession, is in the end dictated by business. Like it or not, one of the attractive things of being a physician is its slightly higher than average payoff after all the training and education required to be one. Even after taxes, there are still loans to pay off, living expenses to consider, and the cost of having a family if necessary. Other professions may need to worry about these things too, but they enter the workforce earlier and have their nice salaries earlier in life as well. The philosophy of "we don't need money" only makes it seem that we are being paid much more than necessary and will encourage the public to drive down our salaries.

If a physician was making 70k a year after 4 years of medical school and 4-7 years of residency, there would financially be no reason to go into medicine. Driving down salaries of such professions needed for society makes it very undesirable to enter these fields. After all, if you want to help out society and humanity, both parties would probably benefit more if you had a high-paying job and just donated a portion of your salary to charity. As someone said, teaching is an important profession in this country because they are the basis of childhood education. However, the majority of college graduates do not want to go into this field. Why? Simply because the pay sucks. The best you'll be able to get from current college graduates is Teach for America, and that is at best an alleviation of the problem, not a solution. Why should a chemistry or biology major go into teaching, when they can enter business or go to grad school and enter the private R&D field, make good salaries, and donate off some money to help teaching organizations, knowing that teachers will benefit more from funding and resources rather than manpower? The same goes with medicine; if I'm struggling to pay off my loans and support my family, and I see my friend who has works much less and earns so much more, going into a more lucrative field will be more and more tempting. This is already happening to many medical professions. Podiatrists may have trouble finding residency positions or stable work, so they enter consulting positions and earn much more for much less stress. MDs go into medical business/consulting and make more money in one year than they could in 5 as a specialist. Serving humanity directly is great and all, but if you can't support yourself, how the hell are you going to support others when you and your family are crumbling?

I personally believe that physicians need to be paid well in order to be financial security, to not worry about money and costs and the occasional luxuries in life that come as a reward of hard work and makes life interesting. Stripping financial security makes it harder for the physician, because then he can't focus on his job.

 

[Slide]

lol yea haha, i mean too much money doesn't make you happier, unless that is all you caried about, which you will find a rude awakening once you obtain that degree of wealth. as long as i can cover my bills, support my family to McDonald every couple of weekend, get a decent house and a decent car i will be happy. why would i want 20million dollars, what am i going to do buy my wife a 19.8million dollar ring and just to have her loss it, no way.

If that's true why not be a nurse? Less work, less schooling, good pay, and you get the same gratification as being a doctor.

 

[Law2Doc]

depends on where you live. if you live in California, then you're considered poor. it's ridiculous how much people pay for real estate in California. my friend makes over 100K a year and he still complains about how he's barely getting by.

Even outside of California, people generally find that their expenses rise with their income. As your income goes up you move to a more expensive house in a nicer part of town, drive a newer car, wear better clothes, eat out and entertain more, travel more, send your kids to private schools and ultimately college and so on. And then there's always unforseable complications -- health issues, divorce, acts of God (fires, floods). So even with a six digit income, it is often tough for many to save or invest as much as you'd think. If you earn 150k, it doesn't take much effort to go through everything you are left with after taxes without really living like a rock star, even though most people who make less get by on less. That's the plight of the upper middle class.

 

[Towelie]

Better yet I could just start up a PP and employ your cheap labor.
"I would prefer to see a country where everyone was happy with their access to healthcare" Is that what you are spilling at your medschool interviews? Look people have more "access" to healthcare than you think. As a matter of fact the have so much "access" to healthcare that the can now "access" your pocket directly through med mal. And you really don't think physicians' income can go as low as 30k, tell that to the doctor who after a bad med mal case is left with 40k after paying his new insurance premiums. My question remains-- In the midst of all this self-righteousness, who is going to fight for doctors?

I'm doing just fine in my interviews. Thanks for caring. I hope your spelling was better on your applications than it has been in this forum, or interviews will be the least of your troubles...

Have you ever met a doctor making only $40K because of malpractice? This happens so infrequently that it isn't even worth mentioning. And, in the rare cases that it does happen, it is due to a monumental screw up by the physician who loses the "bad mal case." Malpractice settlements don't appear out of thin air--they are the result of physician error.

Doctors make a great salary in today's society. That salary might be declining slightly, but as a physician you will definitely make a good living. I don't get what all of the crying and whining is about. If you're that sad about making $250K a year instead of $275K, you probably belong in another profession.

 

[sirus_virus]

lol yea haha, i mean too much money doesn't make you happier, unless that is all you caried about, which you will find a rude awakening once you obtain that degree of wealth. as long as i can cover my bills, support my family to McDonald every couple of weekend, get a decent house and a decent car i will be happy. why would i want 20million dollars, what am i going to do buy my wife a 19.8million dollar ring and just to have her loss it, no way.

I will love to be your employer.

 

[Law2Doc]

I will love to be your employer.

Seriously. Just hire him away from the competition with an offer of McDonalds every night, not every couple of weekends. Happy meal = happy employee.

 

[Falco2525]

I'm doing just fine in my interviews. Thanks for caring. I hope your spelling was better on your applications than it has been in this forum, or interviews will be the least of your troubles...

Have you ever met a doctor making only $40K because of malpractice? This happens so infrequently that it isn't even worth mentioning. And, in the rare cases that it does happen, it is due to a monumental screw up by the physician who loses the "bad mal case." Malpractice settlements don't appear out of thin air--they are the result of physician error.

Doctors make a great salary in today's society. That salary might be declining slightly, but as a physician you will definitely make a good living. I don't get what all of the crying and whining is about. If you're that sad about making $250K a year instead of $275K, you probably belong in another profession.

Are we discussing these salaries pre or post taxes...because someone who makes 200k salary pretax will actually only bring home about 120-150k post taxes...

 

[Towelie]

Are we discussing these salaries pre or post taxes...because someone who makes 200k salary pretax will actually only bring home about 120-150k post taxes...

Would you seriously complain about a $150K post tax salary? If so, go into Plastic Surgery or leave medicine and become an investment banker.

My post-tax salary this year is about $17K, and I live fine off of it. I can't even fathom making $150K. And that's without adding in what my wife will make.

 

[45408]

It's true. I often wonder how people live with salaries less than 150k...

Oh, gee, I never thought of that. You start taking things out then - you can't pay for your kids' college, you can't afford life insurance, etc. I'm living on a lot less than $150K/year right now (my wife's a nurse, paying all the bills), but it's a lot less of a high-roller lifestyle than a lot of people make it out to be.

 

[Falco2525]

Would you seriously complain about a $150K post tax salary? If so, go into Plastic Surgery or leave medicine and become an investment banker.

My post-tax salary this year is about $17K, and I live fine off of it. I can't even fathom making $150K. And that's without adding in what my wife will make.

It was actually more of a question to see what the others on the board who are complaining of salaries thought...personally I would like to clear about 200k per year, but it is not my reason for going into medicine

 

[45408]

I'm doing just fine in my interviews. Thanks for caring. I hope your spelling was better on your applications than it has been in this forum, or interviews will be the least of your troubles...

In just a minute, you'll start questioning his ability to be a good doctor as well.

 

[Towelie]

In just a minute, you'll start questioning his ability to be a good doctor as well.

Quite the contrary. In my experience, the best physicians are the ones with the poorest spelling. And the poorest handwriting...