Do you think the accomplishments of minorities are diminished because of AA?

[Lollygag]

Have you ever heard this before that when people see a URM at a top medical school or any medical school, they automatically assume it's only because of affirmative action?

It annoys me.. because I'm not trying to sound cocky when I say this but I worked my butt off in undergrad to get good grades, leadership positions, extracurriculars and awards that will make me stand out as an applicant. And I think I could get into a great medical school whether I have URM status or not because I worked hard to get where I am, and I did it while working 2 jobs. And I think a lot of us on here worked just as hard.

Sorry to rant lol just needed to vent

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[Titus Times]

Hey, I completely agree with you. I always see those low stats people posting that they got an interview and they always mention (im not a URM). Then when a URM gains an interview it is assumed that they didn't work as hard or deserve it.

I dont really think that it is necessarily affirmative action itself yet the competitive community on SDN and other settings that cause people to doubt other students efforts. I really don't see it as major of an advantage of some people make it out to be either. Even schools that boast diversity may have 800+ urm applicants and only accept 5 for that year.

 

[EWO]

Hey, I completely agree with you. I always see those low stats people posting that they got an interview and they always mention (im not a URM). Then when a URM gains an interview it is assumed that they didn't work as hard or deserve it.

I dont really think that it is necessarily affirmative action itself yet the competitive community on SDN and other settings that cause people to doubt other students efforts. I really don't see it as major of an advantage of some people make it out to be either. Even schools that boast diversity may have 800+ urm applicants and only accept 5 for that year.

Amen! That's the reason I do not post here much and avoid a lot of posts like the plague.

Granted these people that post here are not true representation of ALL med aspirants, students, etc but I can not do the constant barrage of "URM adv" of which I have not seen the likes of at "any" school

Most schools...DO and MD...excluding HBCU and UMDNJ...you'll be good to find 10-15 of us in one class... #jmo

 

[Lollygag]

Hey, I completely agree with you. I always see those low stats people posting that they got an interview and they always mention (im not a URM). Then when a URM gains an interview it is assumed that they didn't work as hard or deserve it.

Ughhh I know!!! Lol and just like EWO said I just try to avoid those posts. I want to comment and be like yo, that's not cool lol, but if I say something then we all know it would only add another affirmative action debate and SDN doesn't need anymore of those.

 

[iave9963]

Ughhh I know!!! Lol and just like EWO said I just try to avoid those posts. I want to comment and be like yo, that's not cool lol, but if I say something then we all know it would only add another affirmative action debate and SDN doesn't need anymore of those.

Understand exactly where you are coming from, but it's not just in the medical school world. My best-friend goes to Harvard law and he tells me all the time people look at him like and I quote " An affirmative action baby". Even though he had high Lsat and gpa. It does get annoying at times, but what can you do? I am assuming like you said, many of the URMs with decent stats don't bother posting, on sdn or mdapplicants. I have decent stats and haven't really been seeing this profound AA boost from alot of the schools I applied to, although it could be my secondaries, I can't write for S*** I just learn to ignore it, and hopefully IF i get into medical school next year, will be around more open minded sensible people, who knows not all URMs are "affirmative action babies"

 

[Titus Times]

Understand exactly where you are coming from, but it's not just in the medical school world. My best-friend goes to Harvard law and he tells me all the time people look at him like and I quote " An affirmative action baby". Even though he had high Lsat and gpa. It does get annoying at times, but what can you do? I am assuming like you said, many of the URMs with decent stats don't bother posting, on sdn or mdapplicants. I have decent stats and haven't really been seeing this profound AA boost from alot of the schools I applied to, although it could be my secondaries, I can't write for S*** I just learn to ignore it, and hopefully IF i get into medical school next year, will be around more open minded sensible people, who knows not all URMs are "affirmative action babies"

Its so sad that things have to be this way.

I look at it like this, the majority of AA that get into med school had stats near, equal or greater than the average. And there is a bulk of students with equal or greater stats that are rejected each year and they wonder "How TF did this happen". Now consider and this and this is honestly my view of the extent of AfA, consider that the AA applicants that are accepted under AfA only happened to be one of those applicants with equal or above average stats that would have been randomly rejectected But was not due to AfA.

That in my opinion is the extent of AfA outside of HBCU (which is in essence not AfA) I see no evidence proving otherwise. Harvard has Zero 3.0gpa 28mcat AA med students I guarantee you that.

 

[neural432]

Yes. It's sad but true.

I mainly post to give people who were in the same situation like I was when applying to medical school have some perspective about the process. But partaking in those discussions about AFA will cause you more grief than is needed lol. I go to school in the South, so the attitudes that you are speaking about are sadly commonplace. You learn to shake off the negativity and keep doing what you have to do in order to be successful in school. You don't have to prove anything to anyone except yourself. But the flip-side to this discussion: there are a lot of other students at med school now that have stats that are below (but near) the average who did not get in because of the supposed URM effect or money. Everyone leaves them out of the conversation when they start theorizing about why someone got in to X school. I don't know why it is so hard for folks to wrap their mind around the fact that the reason might be because of merit.

 

[mievans]

Agreed 100%

 

[iave9963]

Yes. It's sad but true.
You don't have to prove anything to anyone except yourself.

Agree! Took me a while to realize it, but then it hit me like a freight train. You don't have to prove yourself to anybody, especially those that think you are only an "affirmative action baby", because at the end of the day, you are still (or will be) in medical school. Luckily not all premeds share these thoughts, those are the ones who I hope to befriend next year.... IF I GET IN

 

[kasmir8199]

Yep! Even worse when you hear this coming from your mate! I'm not a violent person, but I really wanted to practice some marital arts on my (now ex) bf when he flat out "declared" the only reason I go into grad school on scholarship back in the day was because of AA.

 

[MedPR]

Hey, I completely agree with you. I always see those low stats people posting that they got an interview and they always mention (im not a URM). Then when a URM gains an interview it is assumed that they didn't work as hard or deserve it.

I dont really think that it is necessarily affirmative action itself yet the competitive community on SDN and other settings that cause people to doubt other students efforts. I really don't see it as major of an advantage of some people make it out to be either. Even schools that boast diversity may have 800+ urm applicants and only accept 5 for that year.

Sorry, it is a major advantage. I'm a non-AA URM and I have interviews at schools where my GPA and MCAT are both in the 10% of matriculants.

 

[lazymd]

Yes. It's sad but true.

.... I don't know why it is so hard for folks to wrap their mind around the fact that the reason might be because of merit.

It's hard for many people to understand something that won't render them superior.

 

[mievans]

Sorry, it is a major advantage. I'm a non-AA URM and I have interviews at schools where my GPA and MCAT are both in the 10% of matriculants.

Regardless of whether you get the interview there is still the possibility of naysayers on adcom who don't believe you will able to be competitive once you matriculate.

 

[angemon89]

I plan on carrying proof of my stats and whipping it out any time someone questions my ability

 

[iave9963]

i plan on carrying proof of my stats and whipping it out any time someone questions my ability

+1

 

[Lollygag]

i plan on carrying proof of my stats and whipping it out any time someone questions my ability

+2!!!!!!

and smh at the affirmative action babies thing, thats just pure ignorance.

 

[UoCfin]

couple tags for you...
If am an AA baby***I actually feel blessed by it***
I would actually thanks the person who got me into that top tier school based on that.
Seriously...if the average mcat score for a top tier is about a 38-40 or so and I come in with my 37...meaning...most of these guys are in their 40s...i sure do feel dumb...but am blessed that their is AA that will atleast give me a chance.
You have to do this to create a balance.
Its done everywhere (economics/politics/socioeconomics)...so don't give me that bull.
The people of palestine have been disadvantaged for a couple of decades...if for some good process...all their trouble was over...those in the political realm would have to create ways for them to get on page and catch up sparingly.
Too bad if you don't like AA...i actually feel like i got into ma school *undergrad* on that basis...but then found myself *not haughty* actually a tid bit intelligent for the crowd.

 

[iave9963]

couple tags for you...
If am an AA baby***I actually feel blessed by it***
I would actually thanks the person who got me into that top tier school based on that.
Seriously...if the average mcat score for a top tier is about a 38-40 or so and I come in with my 37...meaning...most of these guys are in their 40s...i sure do feel dumb...but am blessed that their is AA that will atleast give me a chance.
You have to do this to create a balance.
Its done everywhere (economics/politics/socioeconomics)...so don't give me that bull.
The people of palestine have been disadvantaged for a couple of decades...if for some good process...all their trouble was over...those in the political realm would have to create ways for them to get on page and catch up sparingly.
Too bad if you don't like AA...i actually feel like i got into ma school *undergrad* on that basis...but then found myself *not haughty* actually a tid bit intelligent for the crowd.

Either it's really late or your post was really convoluted

 

[UoCfin]

Either it's really late or your post was really convoluted

actually it was late...at work...

 

[Lollygag]

Either it's really late or your post was really convoluted

lol

 

[DoctaJay]

Have you ever heard this before that when people see a URM at a top medical school or any medical school, they automatically assume it's only because of affirmative action?

It annoys me.. because I'm not trying to sound cocky when I say this but I worked my butt off in undergrad to get good grades, leadership positions, extracurriculars and awards that will make me stand out as an applicant. And I think I could get into a great medical school whether I have URM status or not because I worked hard to get where I am, and I did it while working 2 jobs. And I think a lot of us on here worked just as hard.

Sorry to rant lol just needed to vent

You wil never be able to change people's perception of you. Some, even when you are in residency will think that you are inherently lazy or less intelligent because of your color. All you can do is your best; continue your hard work; continue to be easy to get along with and your work will speak for you.

 

[Flash Goddess]

AA is not the problem; prejudice is.

 

[lazymd]

You wil never be able to change people's perception of you. Some, even when you are in residency will think that you are inherently lazy or less intelligent because of your color. All you can do is your best; continue your hard work; continue to be easy to get along with and your work will speak for you.

seriously? I convinced myself that most of the anti-URM attitudes were due to the pressure of getting into medical school and that most of these views would fizzle out by the time we reached residency. It's a little disappointing to know that that's not the case.

 

[aspiringdoc09]

seriously? I convinced myself that most of the anti-URM attitudes were due to the pressure of getting into medical school and that most of these views would fizzle out by the time we reached residency. It's a little disappointing to know that that's not the case.

The crazy thing about all this is that my dad use to warn me and I didn't believe him as a child; however, age brings maturity and I see it. People will always question your abilities as a minority. Sometimes you get it on the same side (i.e. same race) too, so I'm sure you are all aware of that jealousy. I don't even want to get started on what my work-study had the audacity to tell me about my acceptance. LOL. Now that I think about it...maybe I should have fired him! LOL.

As mentioned, you don't have to prove anything to anyone else. My mom always say, "The best way to get even with people is to kill them with kindness." Once they see that they can't faze you, then they will move on with their pathetic lives.

 

[Lollygag]

The crazy thing about all this is that my dad use to warn me and I didn't believe him as a child; however, age brings maturity and I see it. People will always question your abilities as a minority. Sometimes you get it on the same side (i.e. same race) too, so I'm sure you are all aware of that jealousy. I don't even want to get started on what my work-study had the audacity to tell me about my acceptance. LOL. Now that I think about it...maybe I should have fired him! LOL.

As mentioned, you don't have to prove anything to anyone else. My mom always say, "The best way to get even with people is to kill them with kindness." Once they see that they can't faze you, then they will move on with their pathetic lives.

So true

 

[Lollygag]

You wil never be able to change people's perception of you. Some, even when you are in residency will think that you are inherently lazy or less intelligent because of your color. All you can do is your best; continue your hard work; continue to be easy to get along with and your work will speak for you.

Did you ever have a first hand experience with this or just a hunch?

 

[Croooz]

Answering the question of the thread; Yes, most definitely.

Affirmative Action is the problem because it exacerbates racial prejudice. For all those who are not Aff.Act. babies there are those who definitely are. Barely passing or worse, being allowed to graduate and then failing Step exams multiple times. There is good reason that many schools accept their URM's from SMP programs because they've shown to be able to make it. Those students are less of a risk for the school.

Look there will be idiots (patients, colleagues, and health professionals) during our careers who might say something but idiots are idiots for a reason. Plus once they do say it and note that it will be in the form of a "joke" it tells us a great deal about their presuppositions. Just keep it moving.

 

[Titus Times]

I think I should clarify my stance. I 100 percent support affirmative action because I feel that it's impact is amazing for the African American community. I feel that it is well deserved very necessary.

I feel that anyone who has a problem with affirmative action is simply unaware of its pro's/nieve/ignorant. and I will never loose sleep over an Ignorant naive driven comment/opinion. Generalizations and stereotypes are something us career driven college educated African Americans face everyday and in every field that will change in the future but I could care less about the opinion of a person whose heart is in the wrong place to begin with.

 

[iave9963]

i think i should clarify my stance. I 100 percent support affirmative action because i feel that it's impact is amazing for the african american community. I feel that it is well deserved very necessary.

I feel that anyone who has a problem with affirmative action is simply unaware of its pro's/nieve/ignorant. And i will never loose sleep over an ignorant naive driven comment/opinion. Generalizations and stereotypes are something us career driven college educated african americans face everyday and in every field that will change in the future but i could care less about the opinion of a person whose heart is in the wrong place to begin with.

+1000^1000

 

[Dharma]

Any program or choice that bases a decision on an individual's race/ethnicity/color is one steeped in racism (hence racist in nature), regardless of intention or which subset it benefits. The whole package should always be taken into consideration, each being treated individually according to the challenges a particular person has overcome to reach recognition worthy achievements in his or her life. Painting with a generalized broad brush and filling quotas for the sake of liberalized "diversification" is not only artificial but will also continually perpetuate the racism we currently see today.

 

[kimposibl]

The whole package should always be taken into consideration, each being treated individually according to the challenges a particular person has overcome to reach recognition worthy achievements in his or her life. Painting with a generalized broad brush and filling quotas for the sake of liberalized "diversification" is not only artificial but will also continually perpetuate the racism we currently see today.

ooooooookayyyyyyyy

1. People of URM status usually face adversity. I don't want to elaborate on the negative stereotypes. I'm sure you know them well, if you live in American society.

2. If you think special treatment perpetuates the handicap for which it accommodates, then yes, you are correct. Maybe we shouldn't have handicap parking spots? Maybe we shouldn't give an elderly person the front seat on the bus? After all, I don't want to treat anyone special just because they have a hip problem or because they are old. Stand and walk like everyone else has to!

3. Quite frankly, I'm not a fan of conservative "inbreeding", so I'll take liberalized "diversification" any day.

 

[Dharma]

ooooooookayyyyyyyy

1. People of URM status usually face adversity. I don't want to elaborate on the negative stereotypes. I'm sure you know them well, if you live in American society.

2. If you think special treatment perpetuates the handicap for which it accommodates, then yes, you are correct. Maybe we shouldn't have handicap parking spots? Maybe we shouldn't give an elderly person the front seat on the bus? After all, I don't want to treat anyone special just because they have a hip problem or because they are old. Stand and walk like everyone else has to!

3. Quite frankly, I'm not a fan of conservative "inbreeding", so I'll take liberalized "diversification" any day.

so you equate ethnicity/race/color etc with a physical handicap and the advancement of age? hmm... interesting.

there are those who are truly in need of special treatment and those who are not, in a generalized manner that is. individual cases must be examined individually to determine the extra help such an individual is in need of, or deserves for that matter, in regards to jobs, matriculation, placement, etc.

be careful painting with the broad brush of generalization, as you have done with your conservative comment. lumping folks into generalized categories and creating biases based on such generalization is what created this mess in the first place.

 

[kimposibl]

so you equate ethnicity/race/color etc with a physical handicap and the advancement of age? hmm... interesting.

there are those who are truly in need of special treatment and those who are not, in a generalized manner that is. individual cases must be examined individually to determine the extra help such an individual is in need of, or deserves for that matter, in regards to jobs, matriculation, placement, etc.

be careful painting with the broad brush of generalization, as you have done with your conservative comment. lumping folks into generalized categories and creating biases based on such generalization is what created this mess in the first place.

What's the difference between being treated differently due to a physical disability and being treated differently because of a stereotype placed on your race/ethnicity/color etc?

You also painted a generalized notion with your "liberalized diversification" comment, so maybe you should try practicing what you preach.

 

[Dharma]

What's the difference between being treated differently due to a physical disability and being treated differently because of a stereotype placed on your race/ethnicity/color etc?

You also painted a generalized notion with your "liberalized diversification" comment, so maybe you should try practicing what you preach.

Big difference. I still find it interesting how some individuals consider their ethnicity a handicap while others, also coming from disadvantaged backgrounds push to overcome hardship through their own hard work.

Legislative efforts of diversification (i.e. mandated "reform") are most definitely a movement of the liberal left. No generalization there. That's simple fact. Calling conservatives inbred is far from fact and quite inflammatory at that. (That said, I am most definitely NOT a Republican, and tend to agree more with the Libertarian movement).

The real issues in this country are issues of cultural deficiencies in America as a whole (which vary in type amongst certain demographics): a move away from family values, glorification of media "stars" and the morals they depict, and an attitude that change should always come from someone besides themselves are just a few biggies. The oh-poor-me attitude permeates American culture more now than ever. When the masses truly become self-aware and self-critical (SELF-critical) of such deficiencies and the necrosis that ensues, this conversation will be moot. And when folks stop looking for handouts and start taking matters into their own hands (and some actually do this) then some real permanent change will start to take place. I do not write these in regards to any particular subset either; I am referring to ALL of us.

Until then, you will have folks who feel slighted, cheated, and disadvantaged, regardless of what side of the fence they sit on. However, there are deep issues that need to be attended to and these root problems need addressing in ways that go beyond a simple numbers game. (Exactly what they are, I'm not sure. I can say, for one it starts with the individual and the family- the home). Quoting filling does not come close to addressing such root issues and it does, in some ways, exacerbate the issue, depending on which side of that fence one sits. It's a bandaid on a gaping laceration with no mending in site and many question it's efficacy over the past so many decades.

I'll leave it at this: An individual should be awarded according to his own accomplishments and challenges won, which very much includes overcoming poverty, abuse, racism, and losses/deficits in one's life, amongst other hurdles and obstacles; these issues affect people of various skin tones and backgrounds btw and to generalize in such a manner that limits such consideration to only one or few select backgrounds is simply wrong and does leave others feeling slighted. How is that equality? Simply filling quotas or lowering standards in response to inequity is not the answer. It's an oversimplified, easy way out, that lacks the true effort necessary to truly combat prejudice and injustice.

 

[kimposibl]

Big difference. I still find it interesting how some individuals consider their ethnicity a handicap while others, also coming from disadvantaged backgrounds push to overcome hardship through their own hard work.

Legislative efforts of diversification (i.e. mandated "reform") are most definitely a movement of the liberal left. No generalization there. That's simple fact. Calling conservatives inbred is far from fact and quite inflammatory at that. (That said, I am most definitely NOT a Republican, and tend to agree more with the Libertarian movement).

The real issues in this country are issues of cultural deficiencies in America as a whole (which vary in type amongst certain demographics): a move away from family values, glorification of media "stars" and the morals they depict, and an attitude that change should always come from someone besides themselves are just a few biggies. The oh-poor-me attitude permeates American culture more now than ever. When the masses truly become self-aware and self-critical (SELF-critical) of such deficiencies and the necrosis that ensues, this conversation will be moot. And when folks stop looking for handouts and start taking matters into their own hands (and some actually do this) then some real permanent change will start to take place. I do not write these in regards to any particular subset either; I am referring to ALL of us.

Until then, you will have folks who feel slighted, cheated, and disadvantaged, regardless of what side of the fence they sit on. However, there are deep issues that need to be attended to and these root problems need addressing in ways that go beyond a simple numbers game. (Exactly what they are, I'm not sure. I can say, for one it starts with the individual and the family- the home). Quoting filling does not come close to addressing such root issues and it does, in some ways, exacerbate the issue, depending on which side of that fence one sits. It's a bandaid on a gaping laceration with no mending in site and many question it's efficacy over the past so many decades.

I'll leave it at this: An individual should be awarded according to his own accomplishments and challenges won, which very much includes overcoming poverty, abuse, racism, and losses/deficits in one's life, amongst other hurdles and obstacles; these issues affect people of various skin tones and backgrounds btw and to generalize in such a manner that limits such consideration to only one or few select backgrounds is simply wrong and does leave others feeling slighted. How is that equality? Simply filling quotas or lowering standards in response to inequity is not the answer. It's an oversimplified, easy way out, that lacks the true effort necessary to truly combat prejudice and injustice.

Yes, thanks for being redundant then. Also, it makes grounds for political arguments. As for my comment concerning conservatives, don't take it too literally.

Hard work doesn't go unnoticed. Doesn't matter what your skin color is. Receiving special treatment due to networking and by "donating" $$$ is by far worse than AA because AA is still merit-based.

 

[Dharma]

Hard work doesn't go unnoticed. Doesn't matter what your skin color is. Receiving special treatment due to networking and by "donating" $$$ is by far worse than AA because AA is still merit-based.

Can't really argue with you there. Cheers to that!

 

[Lollygag]

I completely agree with kimposibl but just want to say that I understand AA has its flaws. It is by no means perfect but at this moment in time, something needs to be done to correct the disadvantages placed on our culture.

It is completely unfeasible to think we can change the views of the entire population and convince them that we are all equal in a timely enough manner (as in the next 10 years) that will reverse the negative connotations against africans americans; it can be done-- but it will take generations, much longer than 10 years for the majority of the population to view each other as equal.

Because ultimately, the solution I hear from anti/AA people is that we should be "educating" others not giving "hand outs". In order to educate people to be culturally accepting of others to the point AA is not necessary because we're all race blind, would take an incredible amount of resources-- resources that are better used to feed the hungry in my honest opinion. It's just not feasible to a country recovering from a war and recession, and in billions of dollars of debt. And to say that we "start in the home" sounds very cliche to me, no offense. And again... would take generations before there was a real change.

I'm peacing out now cuz I hate AA debates, but just felt that I needed to say that

 

[Erakis]

My wife is a URM surgical resident, and her stats getting onto medical school were competitive for anybody (Ivy league undergrad, solid GPA, 30s MCAT, two years HIV research at NIH, and one year cancer research at Harvard post-grad). She has gotten crap year after year since beginning medical school from people who assume she got in by AA. I can see how much of a negative impact it has on her personally, and how it makes her have to work harder than her peers to be respected.

As a white male matriculant for 2013, it was an important perspective for me to see. I admit that I see a lot of people complain about it, but after taking a little time to educate myself, I have drastically changed my perspective on URM programs.

 

[Medstart108]

My wife is a URM surgical resident, and her stats getting onto medical school were competitive for anybody (Ivy league undergrad, solid GPA, 30s MCAT, two years HIV research at NIH, and one year cancer research at Harvard post-grad). She has gotten crap year after year since beginning medical school from people who assume she got in by AA. I can see how much of a negative impact it has on her personally, and how it makes her have to work harder than her peers to be respected.

As a white male matriculant for 2013, it was an important perspective for me to see. I admit that I see a lot of people complain about it, but after taking a little time to educate myself, I have drastically changed my perspective on URM programs.

Look you can't deny it https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html Look at the tables

For a GPA 3.00-3.19 MCAT 30-32

Asian: 22.7%
White: 30.3%
Hispanic 58.6%
Black: 74.4%

How can you say AA isn't a big deal in admissions when you face these numbers which are published by the AAMC. Every doctor/future doc would know this is true.

To everyone who is unhappy people treat you or your friends as an "AA baby".

If you think AA isn't such a big difference, and you want people to stop looking down on URMs then why don't you support dropping it? The only reason people do look down on URMs in top schools is because of statistics like these. Its not a secret. People in my school who declared themselves a URM got into Ivy Leagues with lower scores and extracurriculars than people who were an ORM.

Asians are minorities just as well, except they seem to get the worst treatment out of all the races. 22.7% vs 74.4%???? Just by changing your race, the color of your skin your chances go up 50%. This is racism pure and simple.

 

[Lollygag]

Look you can't deny it https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html Look at the tables

For a GPA 3.00-3.19 MCAT 30-32

Asian: 22.7%
White: 30.3%
Hispanic 58.6%
Black: 74.4%

How can you say AA isn't a big deal in admissions when you face these numbers which are published by the AAMC. Every doctor/future doc would know this is true.

To everyone who is unhappy people treat you or your friends as an "AA baby".

If you think AA isn't such a big difference, and you want people to stop looking down on URMs then why don't you support dropping it? The only reason people do look down on URMs in top schools is because of statistics like these. Its not a secret. People in my school who declared themselves a URM got into Ivy Leagues with lower scores and extracurriculars than people who were an ORM.

Asians are minorities just as well, except they seem to get the worst treatment out of all the races. 22.7% vs 74.4%???? Just by changing your race, the color of your skin your chances go up 50%. This is racism pure and simple.

So every URM that got into a top school is only there because of AA?

Yea. Alright lol. Ill leave it at that

 

[Lollygag]

I guarantee a whole lot of those people at top schools are also there because of daddy's paycheck, because they were athletes in college etc.. I know 2 people personally who will fully admit to it and yet all we can talk about is AA

 

[Erakis]

Look you can't deny it https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html Look at the tables

For a GPA 3.00-3.19 MCAT 30-32

Asian: 22.7%
White: 30.3%
Hispanic 58.6%
Black: 74.4%

How can you say AA isn't a big deal in admissions when you face these numbers which are published by the AAMC. Every doctor/future doc would know this is true.

To everyone who is unhappy people treat you or your friends as an "AA baby".

If you think AA isn't such a big difference, and you want people to stop looking down on URMs then why don't you support dropping it? The only reason people do look down on URMs in top schools is because of statistics like these. Its not a secret. People in my school who declared themselves a URM got into Ivy Leagues with lower scores and extracurriculars than people who were an ORM.

Asians are minorities just as well, except they seem to get the worst treatment out of all the races. 22.7% vs 74.4%???? Just by changing your race, the color of your skin your chances go up 50%. This is racism pure and simple.

My wife can't change AA anymore than you or I can. I don't agree with the concept of affirmative action to make up for past wrongs. I am strongly opposed to that principle. However, I do believe in the increased compliance and trust derived from racially and culturally comcordinant patient/ provider relationships, and I recognize a prevalence of educational disadvantage among several minority groups.

I don't think that URM med students and physicians wish to be lumped into the category of "AA babies" any more than I want to be perceived as disproportionally advantages because I'm a white male. I came from a bad home life, low income, and dropped out of high school. I spent 13 years in the Army with multiple deployments, and I finished my Medical school prereqs at night and could not afford an mcat prep course. I was diagnosed with cancer less than a week before my MCAT and still took it, as well as finished my upper level biology courses while in chemo. I still get lumped in with all the yacht club frat boys on first look, but I accept that is who I have to compete against and rise to the occasion rather than whining about how nobody recognizes my disadvantages. I got accepted to a top 20 school and I have no reason to complain about somebody else's AA. Besides, they make up such a low percentage of matriculants that it's highly unlikely that they "took your slot".

 

[Giggles88]

My wife is a URM surgical resident, and her stats getting onto medical school were competitive for anybody (Ivy league undergrad, solid GPA, 30s MCAT, two years HIV research at NIH, and one year cancer research at Harvard post-grad). She has gotten crap year after year since beginning medical school from people who assume she got in by AA. I can see how much of a negative impact it has on her personally, and how it makes her have to work harder than her peers to be respected.

As a white male matriculant for 2013, it was an important perspective for me to see. I admit that I see a lot of people complain about it, but after taking a little time to educate myself, I have drastically changed my perspective on URM programs.

Would you be willing to share some of your wife's negative experiences?

 

[Lollygag]

My wife can't change AA anymore than you or I can. I don't agree with the concept of affirmative action to make up for past wrongs. I am strongly opposed to that principle. However, I do believe in the increased compliance and trust derived from racially and culturally comcordinant patient/ provider relationships, and I recognize a prevalence of educational disadvantage among several minority groups.

I don't think that URM med students and physicians wish to be lumped into the category of "AA babies" any more than I want to be perceived as disproportionally advantages because I'm a white male. I came from a bad home life, low income, and dropped out of high school. I spent 13 years in the Army with multiple deployments, and I finished my Medical school prereqs at night and could not afford an mcat prep course. I was diagnosed with cancer less than a week before my MCAT and still took it, as well as finished my upper level biology courses while in chemo. I still get lumped in with all the yacht club frat boys on first look, but I accept that is who I have to compete against and rise to the occasion rather than whining about how nobody recognizes my disadvantages. I got accepted to a top 20 school and I have no reason to complain about somebody else's AA. Besides, they make up such a low percentage of matriculants that it's highly unlikely that they "took your slot".

You're amazing That's some serious novel/biography material right there.

 

[Erakis]

Would you be willing to share some of your wife's negative experiences?

When she first deals with new people, they assume that she was an under qualified affirmative action applicant. People would make comments about it before even seeing her work or finding out how competent she is.

Gunners were particularly bad about it in school, and would make snide comments to try to undermine her on clinicals, never realizing that she did just as well as them on everything.

While doing research, she would be disrespected by collaborating PhDs, especially because she has an ethnic name. People wouldn't even meet her, but judge her from her email signature. As a senior resident, it happens to her less frequently, but there are always people who are angry about those numbers that are so frequently brought up in these forums. The numbers don't lie, but they certainly don't tell the whole truth, either.

 

[Erakis]

You're amazing That's some serious novel/biography material right there.

Thank you. That's very flattering.

 

[Giggles88]

When she first deals with new people, they assume that she was an under qualified affirmative action applicant. People would make comments about it before even seeing her work or finding out how competent she is.

Gunners were particularly bad about it in school, and would make snide comments to try to undermine her on clinicals, never realizing that she did just as well as them on everything.

While doing research, she would be disrespected by collaborating PhDs, especially because she has an ethnic name. People wouldn't even meet her, but judge her from her email signature. As a senior resident, it happens to her less frequently, but there are always people who are angry about those numbers that are so frequently brought up in these forums. The numbers don't lie, but they certainly don't tell the whole truth, either.

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry that your wife went through that, but I have to admit that I take comfort in knowing I'm not the only person that stuff has happened to. In fact, it happens so often that I'm now in the process of changing my name so that I can, at least, get my foot in the door for an interview (research). Congrats to you and your wife on your success.

 

[NontradCA]

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry that your wife went through that, but I have to admit that I take comfort in knowing I'm not the only person that stuff has happened to. In fact, it happens so often that I'm now in the process of changing my name so that I can, at least, get my foot in the door for an interview (research). Congrats to you and your wife on your success.

Changing your name to get the foot in the door for research? No respect.

 

[NontradCA]

My wife can't change AA anymore than you or I can. I don't agree with the concept of affirmative action to make up for past wrongs. I am strongly opposed to that principle. However, I do believe in the increased compliance and trust derived from racially and culturally comcordinant patient/ provider relationships, and I recognize a prevalence of educational disadvantage among several minority groups.

I don't think that URM med students and physicians wish to be lumped into the category of "AA babies" any more than I want to be perceived as disproportionally advantages because I'm a white male. I came from a bad home life, low income, and dropped out of high school. I spent 13 years in the Army with multiple deployments, and I finished my Medical school prereqs at night and could not afford an mcat prep course. I was diagnosed with cancer less than a week before my MCAT and still took it, as well as finished my upper level biology courses while in chemo. I still get lumped in with all the yacht club frat boys on first look, but I accept that is who I have to compete against and rise to the occasion rather than whining about how nobody recognizes my disadvantages. I got accepted to a top 20 school and I have no reason to complain about somebody else's AA. Besides, they make up such a low percentage of matriculants that it's highly unlikely that they "took your slot".

AA is not intended to make up for past wrong doings. I really need to spend more time on this part of the forum. Good for you getting into med school being a dropout. The point is that a black male in a similar situation would have a much harder route to going to a top med school, doing the same things.

 

[Giggles88]

Changing your name to get the foot in the door for research? No respect.

I don't recall asking for it. And finding decent employment is only the beginning of the issues I have with my name.