i'm finding that saying to be true...so far. i look forward to getting up every morning for my surgery subi. i'm the first student to arrive and the last to leave (stay to scrub in on any add-on cases later in the day). but i hear from residents and attendings that it's different when you're not a student anymore. i get the feeling a lot of them just want to get the day over with so they can go home. every new consult is met with a sigh. every patient discharged is a relief as it means one less patient on the list. the theme seems to be everyone just wants to go home. so is that just my experience or do you residents/fellows/attendings still wake up in the morning eager to do what you do, like the quote in the title of this thread?
"do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life"
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I like this thread already!
I definitely think the same thing. Honestly, I don't even see being a doctor as a job, because it is such a great gift to be able to help and heal someone.
But, just doing what you love is enough to make you happy for the rest of your life. The relationship between your work should be like the relationship between a loved one.
Although, on the flip side of things, I can see why a resident would be flustered. They are extremely overworked. I am just a pre-med, but thinking of all those hours the residents put in already makes me feel exhausted. haha. Being sleep deprived for too long has been shown in studies to cause a lot of health problems.
Anyway, I am glad you love what you do.
I definitely think the same thing. Honestly, I don't even see being a doctor as a job, because it is such a great gift to be able to help and heal someone.
But, just doing what you love is enough to make you happy for the rest of your life. The relationship between your work should be like the relationship between a loved one.
Although, on the flip side of things, I can see why a resident would be flustered. They are extremely overworked. I am just a pre-med, but thinking of all those hours the residents put in already makes me feel exhausted. haha. Being sleep deprived for too long has been shown in studies to cause a lot of health problems.
Anyway, I am glad you love what you do.
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Dude, give us a break. You're not at one of your medschool interviews. Drop the BS.
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Dude, give us a break. You're not at one of your medschool interviews. Drop the BS.
I love your avatar... butt head
And, I am not a dude... I am a dudette!Though I agree with your quote. I am going to have a rant on your passing judgement. Your verve may be refreshing compared to other medical students on your rotation. It is rare for a medical student to be first, last, and not complain. In fact, you are probably a reportable case. But, your naive judgement is equal to the courage of a non-combatant. Remember, you have absolutely NO ACCOUNTABILITY (beyond H,NH,P,F or A through F, depending on your school) as a medical student.
Please avoid any use of "YOUR EXPERIENCE" as a point of medical reference until you are at ATTENDING level. Because basically your N=1 experience isn't worth posting.
I hope you are able to keep your verve and positive attitude through your training, it does make this trip easier. My recommendation would be to use your quote as a mantra during those 2AM-5AM q15 minutes clarification and duplicate order calls. (JUST WAIT YOU'LL SEE).
And Futuradoctor...wait til your done with medical school before you can say what a job is or isn't.
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Fair enough.... Just plan on waiting another six years from now (assuming I get into med school first cycle, then pass medical school on top of that).
Who knows, you may be one of the doctors I study under and I can "show off" my resilience then
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I, too, was the "first-in, last-out" med student on my clinical rotations in surgery. I was also single and had little to no "real" responsibility outside of managing the patient list. I'm now a married father and would rather be home with them and not at the hospital. That said, I still enjoy the "good consults," that are not simply a waste of time and I enjoy taking care of patients.
The reason junior residents do not like the admissions is they really only create work and usually are perceived to have little educational benefit, as the junior residents typically are not doing the operations on patients who require admissions but are only managing them postoperatively. The reason we all went into surgery is we want to operate, not manage patients on the floor like a medical resident. You, a medical student, are doing the operations and have little responsibility post-operatively (as mentioned before, you don't have to field the multiple nursing calls throughout the night) aside from writing your daily progress note and trying to generate a management plan to present to your resident/attending. As residents progress up the ladder, their views change as they are taking care of the patients on whom they operated. While I felt as each patient on my service was "mine" as an intern, it really does change as you progress. I find myself no longer bothered by admitting patients for "trivial" things, as I'd rather keep an eye on them to make sure something bad doesn't happen. Granted, I'm no longer the first call for any problems that arise and I'm not dictating discharge summaries, but that was the whole point of where I started; they aren't creating work for me anymore.
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There are a few points to be made.
One, I am glad for happiness and positivity.
However, if you want to be physician in any specialty... you need to see it as .... a profession! It is not a glorious hobby. It may seemthat way in medical school. It may even seem that way in some residencies... But eventually, YOU are the physician. The responsibility ends with you. And, yes, it is a job at that point. It is a job in which you risk your life with potential exposures everyday. In some ways, you risk your spouse or sig-other with exposures. You risk your financial security. You have numerous individuals with demands and no gratitutde. It is no longer a game or hobby.
I enjoy what I do. But, I have no illusions that I am in some way being gifted everyday that I walk into the hailstorm. Yes, there are actual cases that I enjoy so much I think I should be paying someone for the privilege, but that is not the majority of what I or any other physician does. The majority or the days are filled trying to help patients, hoping they will (if not appreciate) at least understand I am trying to help. I go home greatful for my health and family knowing.... I will NOT be happy to get a 2am call the rest of my life.
As for the relationship line.... You must have just hit a crack pipe. I don't know anyone in any line of work short of a surfer dude that sees their work in that ridiculous line.
JAD
PS: if you are a med student with any real life experience your statements are probably troll origin to spike a conversation.... cause seem so far out of touch, fluffy, and unrealistic romance novelesque:troll:
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Pre-meds need to have that nice ideal in thier mind. But, kindly, **** the hell up about it.
"I don't even see being a doctor as a job, because it is such a great gift to be able to help and heal someone"
Look hard at the line above...if you ever feel the need to think, type or say anything like this again slap yourself.
Medicine is a job. Surgery, is a job.
Some parts are great. I've been 30 hours on call and stayed for a 6hour valve/Cabg because I love surgery...thats helping and healing.
Other parts are complete ****. I've been forced to stay for over 30 hours to cover a "trauma" with another drunk piece of **** with a cracked skull. There is no helping and healing there, provided he walks out of the hospital he'll walk right back into a bar and f*ck himself up again. Those moments rob you of the rare free time you have, your youth, your time with loved ones, the time you could spend on a patient that really could benefit from your help...its all taken from you and all you get is a sad half-assed minimum wage check to compensate you. At those moments its the worst job you could have.
"I don't even see being a doctor as a job, because it is such a great gift to be able to help and heal someone"
Look hard at the line above...if you ever feel the need to think, type or say anything like this again slap yourself.
Medicine is a job. Surgery, is a job.
Some parts are great. I've been 30 hours on call and stayed for a 6hour valve/Cabg because I love surgery...thats helping and healing.
Other parts are complete ****. I've been forced to stay for over 30 hours to cover a "trauma" with another drunk piece of **** with a cracked skull. There is no helping and healing there, provided he walks out of the hospital he'll walk right back into a bar and f*ck himself up again. Those moments rob you of the rare free time you have, your youth, your time with loved ones, the time you could spend on a patient that really could benefit from your help...its all taken from you and all you get is a sad half-assed minimum wage check to compensate you. At those moments its the worst job you could have.
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"do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life"
people who say this remind me of people who think that if they find the "right" person, their relationship will always be wonderful and they'll never fight, get bored or have to work hard at their relationship. It's very naive, and anyone who goes into either a career or a marriage with those kind of expectations is in for a shock when they encounter reality.
of course you should find something you love doing. But there are still going to be days when you don't enjoy it. We do our work for a lot of reasons - some days because we find it fun or enjoyable, some days because we feel it's important and needs to be done even though we might not feel like it....and some days just because we have bills to pay.
people who say this remind me of people who think that if they find the "right" person, their relationship will always be wonderful and they'll never fight, get bored or have to work hard at their relationship. It's very naive, and anyone who goes into either a career or a marriage with those kind of expectations is in for a shock when they encounter reality.
of course you should find something you love doing. But there are still going to be days when you don't enjoy it. We do our work for a lot of reasons - some days because we find it fun or enjoyable, some days because we feel it's important and needs to be done even though we might not feel like it....and some days just because we have bills to pay.
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I think someone has been watching the most recent Samuel Adams beer advertisements!
I think someone has been watching the most recent Samuel Adams beer advertisements!
If that is the case, the OP should probably gain some "cool points" for using it.
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I'll admit, the statement below is rather mushy and somewhat naive. But, that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to it. Also, keep in mind that this is an opinion, which is different for everyone.
"The relationship between your work should be like the relationship between a loved one..."
First of all, I think the fellow has it right. I really shouldn't say it is not a job. It is a job, especially if you are on call constantly. I understand the physical drain and sleep deprivation that work can have on your health and well being if you can't even get a good nights sleep. That being said, I am still not one that you should even take seriously given my status. I am only a pre-med without the real experiences yet. However, this does not mean that I am not true to my statement above. I think that work is just like a relationship between a significant other (I really shouldn't say loved one since that implies that you would have to unconditionally love them). You spend a lot of time at work which means that the relationship between work and you should be a great one, otherwise you would end up very unhappy and overall live an unhealthy life.
I also want to point out that I did not mean to offend anyone, especially the attendings who, I think, are overworked, sometimes underappreciated, and legally strained to freely perform at their max. Not to mention, you have to put up with a lot of BS from some of your patients and coworkers. For that, I appreciate all that you go through. I especially thank those that sacrifice time with their family. This is something that I have thought about when I finally want to start a family.
Now, if you don't mind me asking, I was wondering why you all wanted to be physicians to begin with? What was your goal?
PS. This is just a side question: How do you have time to go on SDN when you barely have time to sleep? I would be spending time with family or friends or something relaxing. I appreciate your honest comments by the way. I will expect that when I finally get into medical school.
"The relationship between your work should be like the relationship between a loved one..."
First of all, I think the fellow has it right. I really shouldn't say it is not a job. It is a job, especially if you are on call constantly. I understand the physical drain and sleep deprivation that work can have on your health and well being if you can't even get a good nights sleep. That being said, I am still not one that you should even take seriously given my status. I am only a pre-med without the real experiences yet. However, this does not mean that I am not true to my statement above. I think that work is just like a relationship between a significant other (I really shouldn't say loved one since that implies that you would have to unconditionally love them). You spend a lot of time at work which means that the relationship between work and you should be a great one, otherwise you would end up very unhappy and overall live an unhealthy life.
I also want to point out that I did not mean to offend anyone, especially the attendings who, I think, are overworked, sometimes underappreciated, and legally strained to freely perform at their max. Not to mention, you have to put up with a lot of BS from some of your patients and coworkers. For that, I appreciate all that you go through. I especially thank those that sacrifice time with their family. This is something that I have thought about when I finally want to start a family.
Now, if you don't mind me asking, I was wondering why you all wanted to be physicians to begin with? What was your goal?
PS. This is just a side question: How do you have time to go on SDN when you barely have time to sleep? I would be spending time with family or friends or something relaxing. I appreciate your honest comments by the way. I will expect that when I finally get into medical school
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Again, your youth shows through. Relationships are two way streets, and often times you are not getting back what you give in this job, "straining" the courtship.
Usually, I am on this site during down time while I'm on call.
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Working 30 hours shifts and getting blood spit in your face by an HIV+ hobo is a privilege, right?
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Cmon, she's a premed. If she isn't a mushy idealist now, what happens when she gets to med school and residency?
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PS. This is just a side question: How do you have time to go on SDN when you barely have time to sleep? I would be spending time with family or friends or something relaxing. I appreciate your honest comments by the way. I will expect that when I finally get into medical school
Because sometimes the people here, crass or not, seem to understand you better than "your boo" and that's important for getting through it too.
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Money will remain the motivating factor?
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Exactly! I guess the pre-meds that take the longest to break are the ones that finally make it through medicine, right? Although, it may seem like you have been blinded all together since the beginning. Either way, I don't think I would have a problem quitting my job if I felt it would make me entirely unhappy. Some of the previous posts sound more realistic to me if I finally reach residency. The only reason I posted was because I can see myself saying the same thing as the first poster. I also, can see myself turnining slightly more pessimisstic if anyone tried stabbing me with a HIV infected needle (which happened to one of my mom's friends- sad story). Anyway, I don't want to rob the original poster for this thread. You all should focus on him/her, if you don't mind. (I am much too young for the real picture. I will judge for myself when I eventually get there). Thanks for the comments nonetheless.
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You obviously do NOT understand. We do NOT take you seriously. I am not sure you are even pre-med.... Maybe things have gotten that unrealistic in the pre-med world. These comments are sounding more high school or even junior high....
Please, please, please..... enough already. The back and forth of understanding but not being taken serious and having no experience and such great thinking.... the circles runs round and round.
Is that you Habeeb:troll:
The juvenile and frankly so far out of touch commentary is clearly calculated or someone in grade school attempting a game... eitherway, this is not even a serious discourse.
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I think she's being sincere. It's not much of a stretch when you mix together feel-good idealism, naivete, and never having worked a real day in your life.
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Yeah, I think she's being sincere too, JAD.
Not everyone's as bitter as you and I.
Not everyone's as bitter as you and I.
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I never saw anyone in the competitive pre-med time frame this far out of touch. You list as pre-med.... do you run around discussing the gift, and non-job vision of a career in medicine. I remember the long nights of study and work just for the hope of a good MCAT followed by a hope for successful application in med-school. All the time with the costs of college and then med-school looming... I didn't understand the entire medical ed process, med-school, residency, match, etc.... But it was always painfully clear to everyone striving for that goal and to me that it was work and not a charity to them or I.
Alas, maybe you just correct and she/he is that far out....
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Fortunately none as bitter as us in concert!!!Yeah, I think she's being sincere too, JAD.
Not everyone's as bitter as you and I.
Also, I just noticed... 20+K posts!!! damn lady, you are prolific.
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Why did you go into medicine in the first place, besides the obvious?
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Before I answer that question.... I am curious what is "the obvious" to you?
The commentary and inquiry throughout is scaled for a reaction and has a preconceived idea of how to steer this conversation. As to those that plead the case of sincerity, I refer back to my previous belief:troll:
These type questions are calculated. This is not simply ill informed idealism.
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I see it as just a job that has its highs and lows. It's not a luxury or a privilege to work 80 hours a week for a $40k/year pittance. While what little altruistic motivations I have may fade, my monetary and egotistical motivations will not.
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It varies... could be money or just helping others? For me it would be more appropriate to take the mushy side.
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Then NOT so obvious, no straight answers, only provocative statements, and baiting; thus no further answers from me....
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The quote is a good beer comercial line.
However, I do wake up excited about certain cases and weary about some of the routine druggery. Most surgical residents dread clinic. Though there are often moments in clinic that are emotionally rewarding. The consult pager is painful. It rings when you least want it to.... which is just about anytime. Yet, when you get into the consult, you may find it stimulating and exciting. It is in numerous ways a unique profession with unique challenges and stresses. Outsiders observing can never appreciate all the nuances. Med-students see only a fraction. Residents see a different fraction. Attendings, see the final fraction. The ground beneath you changes all the time. This influences you. You look back and the medical school curriculum and philosophy has changed. Or, the residency curriculum, philosophy, etc... has changed. You don't always know what is ahead and what comes after you has a different training paradigm.... So, enjoy your rotations, keep your eyes and mind open and you will start to appreciate the complexity of the atmosphere around you.
JAD
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Fortunately none as bitter as us in concert!!!
Ha ha...and I've been a bad mood ever since we talked on Saturday (must be YOUR fault, eh)!
Well, I have been here 10 years! That's 2,000 posts/year, 5.47 posts per day. Not much. There are some people on here with far more than I, and far less time "served". Even a few who lost their posts in the server change and are working on their second 20+ K.
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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd9pzC3G-T0[/YOUTUBE]
Your YouTube post is a true thing of beauty.
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Now I feel bad...Ha ha...and I've been a bad mood ever since we talked on Saturday (must be YOUR fault, eh)!
Some of our conversation is now playing out on the consult thread....
As the credit card advertisement goes... that is priceless...
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For the record, I've had FP doctors I've rotated with say the same things as futura, when asked why they got into medicine. And it wasn't an interview/psych assessment so really no impetus to lie. The whole "getting up in the morning wanting to go to work", "patients like snowflakes, each unique" and "privilege to get such insights into the lives of others, and thus help their QOL" stuff. The whole 9 yards.
Futura- I'd direct you to primary care fields. Community medicine (make sure you're in a community full of people you like!). Long-term patient contact. Outpatient consults. All that. Family practice comes to mind. I think it's implicit that the hip thing in surgery is to play the jaded n wordly card, haha.
Futura- I'd direct you to primary care fields. Community medicine (make sure you're in a community full of people you like!). Long-term patient contact. Outpatient consults. All that. Family practice comes to mind. I think it's implicit that the hip thing in surgery is to play the jaded n wordly card, haha.
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Then NOT so obvious, no straight answers, only provocative statements, and baiting; thus no further answers from me....
Ha. The obvious: "I like science, and I want to help people!!!"
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I really hope I don't run into too many of those people that shoot rainbows out their arse while birds flock around them singing in unison with the person's whistling. That makes me want to kick a pail full of kittens. Seriously, the people that NEVER have bad days scare the hell out of me. It isn't human.
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I feel like it would be more cathartic to take the kittens out of the pail and kick them one by one......just a thought....
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Somehow, I think PETA would object to this.
Who? People Eating Tasty Animals? I don't think they'd mind.
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I just hope that if I get into med school I don't have to listen to other students talking about sunshine and puppy dog tails. 
Sorry folks out there, but do anything day in and day out for very extended periods of time, and it'll become a job no matter how much you initially love it. There will be good days and there will be bad days, and some people will put an extra strain on your job to make you stop and try to remember why you started in the first place. Anyway, hope you other pre-meds keep your head up and don't let other discourage you from what you want to do.
Sorry folks out there, but do anything day in and day out for very extended periods of time, and it'll become a job no matter how much you initially love it. There will be good days and there will be bad days, and some people will put an extra strain on your job to make you stop and try to remember why you started in the first place. Anyway, hope you other pre-meds keep your head up and don't let other discourage you from what you want to do.
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I just hope that if I get into med school I don't have to listen to other students talking about sunshine and puppy dog tails.
You probably will, if your med school is anything like my med school.
Some people have had to struggle a lot to get into med school, and so seem to deeply resent any criticism of the med school experience. "Do you know how many people would love to be in your shoes and you can't even appreciate it," etc., etc.
They stop saying that after a while, though.
not necessarily. there's a surgeon at our hospital who is like 60 years old and he still comes to round by himself at like 6am and sometimes he's there before the interns show up, operates like a machine day in and day out, teaches med students and residents, and still takes trauma call. at his age and seniority he could do the 9-5 thing but you can tell he loves surgery and for him it hasn't become "just a job".
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We had one like that too.
Turns out he just hated his wife and wanted to be out of the house.
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We had one like that too.
Turns out he just hated his wife and wanted to be out of the house.
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We had one like that too.
Turns out he just hated his wife and wanted to be out of the house.
Like I said, if you do any job for extended periods of time for many years, it becomes just a job (including marraige) haha
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Question: How are we (medical students) supposed to pick a specialty when we apparently have no idea what that specialty actually entails? Attendings and residents on this board make us feel like we have no idea what actually goes on after medical school and you belittle us for it, yet we are supposed to choose a specialty while in this "inferior" position. It's confusing and frustrating.
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That's the age old question.
None of us knew either when we were medical students. This is why, IMHO, the American medical education system is seriously flawed.
You do your best, take electives, talk to as many people as you can but the reality is that you will not know what it is truly to be a <insert specialty X> until you do it.
For most of us this turns out ok, but every year there are people that leave every specialty when it turns out not to be what they expected. I had a hard time as well, coming from a medical school where I was encouraged by faculty who loved to teach to a residency where that wasn't the case.
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