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Anyone got some good info? Board scores? What do you need to match? Any success stories out there???
DO programs
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Pikevillemedstudent
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Here's a post I wrote earlier this year about MD vs DO ENT programs. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Osteopathic otolaryngology is an extremely small field. There are only 18 programs nationwide with approximately 18-20 positions total per year. The AOA ENT residencies are mainly at some of the larger DO hospitals but some are also at the smaller ones as well. For the most part, AOA residencies are great at training you for the "bread and butter" ENT procedures. More complex head and neck(H&N) oncology and skull base surgery rotations are usually provided at larger institutions. Many DO ENT residents go to Univ. of Indiana for H&N onc. Many of the Michigan programs go to Michigan Ear Institute for otology. You get the point. Each program has there own associated out rotations. It is unfortunate but needed to properly train in all aspects of ENT. I rotated at several AOA ENT residencies and can easily say there is a wide variety of quality among programs. Some had next to ZERO didactics while others had at least one lecture per day, however, I think all will adequately train you to be an excellent general ENT surgeon.
Competition among students for these limited positions is fierce. For most programs, you must rotate there to be considered, meaning that you can only truly have a chance at the 2-4 programs you are able to do an elective with. Therefore the biggest part of obtaining a residency is really picking the right programs for a rotation. I was lucky, I know several well qualified applicants that did not get a position.
As for ACGME, they have all the advantages previously discussed about ACGME residencies. Nearly all are excellent residencies. Services at each hospital vary but for the most part they do not have to do alot of out-rotations, if any, at other institutions. Usually lots of didactics and research etc.
For the most part, DO's are at an extreme disadvantage for these positions since ACGME programs receive tons of highly qualified US MD applicants to their limited positions as well. DO's have matched however I have only seen 1 DO and that was at Geisinger in Danville,PA. Western Univ./COMP's match list this year had a guy matching ACGME ENT, but I don't know if it is an accurate list since someone posted that their was problems with it. I am sure there have been others but for the most part the list of DO's matching ACGME ENT is very short.
As for fellowships, most can be obtained through completion of a DO ENT residency with the exception of Facial Plastic Surgery fellowships. It is a very difficult match for ANY ENT resident.
BOTTOMLINE: The question of AOA or ACGME residency for DO's interested in ENT is usually a simple one. AOA programs offer a much better chance of matching, but is still competitive and costly due to numerous out rotations.
Check out these sources:
http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin...04?OpenDocument
http://www.otomatch.com/
http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/index.htm
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2997.html
__________________
Osteopathic otolaryngology is an extremely small field. There are only 18 programs nationwide with approximately 18-20 positions total per year. The AOA ENT residencies are mainly at some of the larger DO hospitals but some are also at the smaller ones as well. For the most part, AOA residencies are great at training you for the "bread and butter" ENT procedures. More complex head and neck(H&N) oncology and skull base surgery rotations are usually provided at larger institutions. Many DO ENT residents go to Univ. of Indiana for H&N onc. Many of the Michigan programs go to Michigan Ear Institute for otology. You get the point. Each program has there own associated out rotations. It is unfortunate but needed to properly train in all aspects of ENT. I rotated at several AOA ENT residencies and can easily say there is a wide variety of quality among programs. Some had next to ZERO didactics while others had at least one lecture per day, however, I think all will adequately train you to be an excellent general ENT surgeon.
Competition among students for these limited positions is fierce. For most programs, you must rotate there to be considered, meaning that you can only truly have a chance at the 2-4 programs you are able to do an elective with. Therefore the biggest part of obtaining a residency is really picking the right programs for a rotation. I was lucky, I know several well qualified applicants that did not get a position.
As for ACGME, they have all the advantages previously discussed about ACGME residencies. Nearly all are excellent residencies. Services at each hospital vary but for the most part they do not have to do alot of out-rotations, if any, at other institutions. Usually lots of didactics and research etc.
For the most part, DO's are at an extreme disadvantage for these positions since ACGME programs receive tons of highly qualified US MD applicants to their limited positions as well. DO's have matched however I have only seen 1 DO and that was at Geisinger in Danville,PA. Western Univ./COMP's match list this year had a guy matching ACGME ENT, but I don't know if it is an accurate list since someone posted that their was problems with it. I am sure there have been others but for the most part the list of DO's matching ACGME ENT is very short.
As for fellowships, most can be obtained through completion of a DO ENT residency with the exception of Facial Plastic Surgery fellowships. It is a very difficult match for ANY ENT resident.
BOTTOMLINE: The question of AOA or ACGME residency for DO's interested in ENT is usually a simple one. AOA programs offer a much better chance of matching, but is still competitive and costly due to numerous out rotations.
Check out these sources:
http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin...04?OpenDocument
http://www.otomatch.com/
http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/index.htm
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2997.html
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Hello Otos,
I'm a third yearf from CCOM looking to go into ENT. I would like to stay in chicago but alas, there are no osteopathic programs here. I'm from the Detroit area where there are about 6 ent residency programs.
herein lies my dilema. I am only permitted to do 2 elective rotations in the same field. That means i can only do 2 rotations in ENT. does that mean that i only really have a chance of matching at these 2 programs? Also, does that mean that I should stick with DO programs where i may have a better chance of matching or should i attempt MD programs here in chicago.
a little background info: I did not take the USMLE. I did well on the COMLEX and i did well in school.
ok, so if i do decide to stick with the DO programs, which are the best overall, and which are the best in Michigan? I'm trying to do research on these programs but I cannot find anything written that objectively compares all the DO programs ( i can't find any kind of ranking).
any kind of insight on my issues would be greatly appreciated. It kind of feels like the whole getting into med school process all over again but more competetive and more meaningful.
Thanks,
Casey
I'm a third yearf from CCOM looking to go into ENT. I would like to stay in chicago but alas, there are no osteopathic programs here. I'm from the Detroit area where there are about 6 ent residency programs.
herein lies my dilema. I am only permitted to do 2 elective rotations in the same field. That means i can only do 2 rotations in ENT. does that mean that i only really have a chance of matching at these 2 programs? Also, does that mean that I should stick with DO programs where i may have a better chance of matching or should i attempt MD programs here in chicago.
a little background info: I did not take the USMLE. I did well on the COMLEX and i did well in school.
ok, so if i do decide to stick with the DO programs, which are the best overall, and which are the best in Michigan? I'm trying to do research on these programs but I cannot find anything written that objectively compares all the DO programs ( i can't find any kind of ranking).
any kind of insight on my issues would be greatly appreciated. It kind of feels like the whole getting into med school process all over again but more competetive and more meaningful.
Thanks,
Casey
Pikevillemedstudent
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CTashby said:
Unfortunately, the answer is yes. If you have a great application, other programs will consider you but your chances are much less without rotating there. Apply to all 18 of them though.
Stick with DO. You didn't take the USMLE. Probably wouldn't get an MD interview with out an incredible USMLE.CTashby said:
CTashby said:
There are no rankings. In Michigan, I highly recommend Botsford. Great residents and attendings. I didn't rotate at all the MI programs but it was by far the best of those I did rotate at.
As for others, Joplin is considered to be one of the better programs. I am not sure why. I just keep hearing that. Other great programs, PCOM, Grandview in Dayton, Tulsa, and Massillon OH(hidden jewel). I am sure many of the other programs are great as well. I do know of a few to stay away from but am hesitant to write anything negative since ENT is such a small field. Truth is, it is rare that a student gets to chose between two or more programs. The best DO ENT residency is the one that accepts you. Good luck.
PM me if you want more specific info.
