DMU or Scholl?

[schock]

I recently got accepted by both DMU and Scholl. I'm having a hard time deciding which school to go to. I don't live anywhere close to either school, and I don't have any family or friends in the area of both schools.
DMU seems really focused on academics and their students' success, while Scholl is in a great location and has made a name for itself.
Can anyone offer me advice on how to decide which school is best? Also, if you were accepted into both of these schools, which one would you pick and why?

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[Doc Foot]

Unless you are dead set on living in a super big city, I would go with DMU. The only complaint about DMU I have ever heard was that it is in Iowa. DMU has one of the most competative DO programs in the US and you take your entire first year with them. DMU almost always has higher pass rates as well. If you can make it past the corn stigma, it may be a better choice for you.

Either way, you will be in good hands and can be successful at either school.

 

[SuperFeisty]

I've been accepted to DMU as well... My concern is that their clinic won't offer the experience of one in a large metropolitan area (NYCPM, Temple, Ohio)... That is at least what Temple students were telling me. Does anyone have input on this?

 

[347932]

...getting back to your happiness and comfort level. You stated you do not live close to either of the schools with no relatives nearby either. Well I def think you should consider how you felt during your interview day at both schools then. Where did it feel more natural to be? How well did you get along with your tour guides or other students you may have interacted with? Yes its a small sample size but that's really all you get on the interview day.

Don't simply go to a school based on board scores or reputation. Go where you felt most at home. Especially since you are going to be far from it.

Excellent advice.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I go to school in Cedar Rapids, which is just a little smaller than Des Moines and Iowa is awful. I grew up in Minneapolis which is closer to a Chicago feel than Des Moines feel. That being said, it's my understanding that Pod school is difficult and therefore you might not want the constant distraction that a big city life will bring. Just a thought.

 

[robopod97]

I've been accepted to DMU as well... My concern is that their clinic won't offer the experience of one in a large metropolitan area (NYCPM, Temple, Ohio)... That is at least what Temple students were telling me. Does anyone have input on this?

I find this particular post interesting. Of all the colleges, Temple seems to be a leader in negative rhetoric toward other colleges. This comes from the top down at the TUSPM. Take the high road and talk about the positive aspects of your college and don't compare. Those colleges that choose to talk about others usually have nothing to say about themselves. Go where you feel you will best fit in.

 

[dtrack22]

...

 

[dtrack22]

Yes. Scheduled in. Not everyone does since we have a 3 month core and some students want a program on the core list, therefore spending 3 months at one place prior to CRIPS. That gives them 5 different programs through December. But you don't have to do a core rotation prior to CRIPS if you don't have to. 7 months in that case...well 7 and a half since you'll be somewhere in Jan for a few weeks before Frisco.

 

[dtrack22]

The list changes (slightly) every year, we won't know our official core sites until sometime this summer, but you see a lot of the same programs from year to year. I don't have last years, maybe one of the older guys will share it

 

[SuperFeisty]

Guys guys, take it easy! Remember, it's not about you. It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! I just wanted to know if the amount of clinical experience and rotations is comparable at all the podiatry schools.

 

[air bud]

Any DMU student can have 7 clerkship months. You just have to use your vacation month to visit a program. I know students that are visiting 2 or 3 programs during their vacation month, so that 7 number can increase. This requires doing 4th core.

 

[dtrack22]

Some Core rotation sites:

DMC
St Johns (Detroit)
DVA Phoenix
DVA North Chicago
DVA Southern Arizona
Shands Jacksonville
West Penn
Yale
Hennepin
Regions (Minn/St Paul)
St Johns Macomb (Mich)
UMDNJ

 

[347932]

I'm very curious about this "core" situation, as when I was at TUSPM, we didn't have anything like that.

Do you find that it will increase your chances of scoring a residency at these programs? Is staying at one place for 3 months worth it? I'm asking out of interest.

 

[ldsrmdude]

At AZPod our "core" is 6 months, 3 months of podiatry and 3 months of off-service rotations (IM, ER, Gen Surg). We also have a non-podiatry elective that you can schedule anywhere, and many (like me) choose to schedule at the core hospital. So this year, I am at 1 hospital for 7 months. It has worked out really well for me, since my core hospital is my #1 choice for match. I think that if your core is a place you want to go for residency, it is a big advantage. If your core isn't where you want to end up (which I think is the case for most of my classmates), then having 6 months at one hospital that you aren't really interested in is a disadvantage. Since we don't have a home clinic that we do rotations at during our 4th year, I guess the best way to get our general medicine rotations is to have them at the same hospital where our core podiatry rotations are (thus making our 6 month core). I used to have an updated list of the core rotation options, and I will see if I can find it later.

 

[hematosis]

I recently got accepted by both DMU and Scholl. I'm having a hard time deciding which school to go to. I don't live anywhere close to either school, and I don't have any family or friends in the area of both schools.
DMU seems really focused on academics and their students' success, while Scholl is in a great location and has made a name for itself.
Can anyone offer me advice on how to decide which school is best? Also, if you were accepted into both of these schools, which one would you pick and why?

Honestly, both schools will provide an excellent education and solid clinicals. Personally, it comes down to location location location. Do you want to live in Iowa or Chicago?

 

[Doc Foot]

Also consider $$$$$$$. Tuition and cost of living are vastly different between these two schools. Consider how much debt you would like to be in when you graduate.

Over 4 years, the cost difference can really add up!

 

[Madura]

while Scholl is in a great location

See the above post for a reminder about the true location of Scholl. It is far enough removed from the city that you will never feel like your're in Chicago. The students I know at Scholl average taking the train downtown once per semester, so if you see yourself studying in a Starbucks on Michigan Ave every afternoon, don't let that false image guide your decision. You just don't have the time or money to enjoy the city as much as you think you will, and there is literally nothing directly surrounding the school.

While Iowa sucks as a whole, Des Moines is not a bad city. It has the feel of a big city with no traffic, no crime, and cheap cost of living. The school is right in the city so you have everything you need within walking distance and all the night life is a 5 minute drive/cab instead of an hour train ride. Big name shows/concerts come through here, they have a good bar district if you're into that, tons of restaraunts and coffee shops, etc. The point is there is more than enough to do here for the time you have to do it in.

Also, if you were accepted into both of these schools, which one would you pick and why?[/QUOTE]

I was accepted to both and chose DMU and am glad I did. Listen to what everyone else is saying and go where you feel at home (that is the most important) but I'll tell you why I love it here. The technology here is top notch, we have one of the cheapest tuition yet they give us &1,800 laptops and ipod touches and fix/update them for free, plus rumor has it the incoming class will be getting ipads on top of the laptop. All of our course materials are on our laptop or accessible in some form, so DMU keeps me more organized than I could keep myself. It rings when I should be in class and it knows my fingerprint. Our clinic is good enough, and we take the entire 4th year abroad touring through cities of your choosing (see above posts), which is almost a requirement for residency acceptance nowadays, and residency is where you get your real clinical training. To me it was worth getting what I feel is the best classroom education (first 2 years) and the most flexible fourth year schedule for a 3rd year that is maybe just a tad inferior to Scholl's. Keep in mind their clinic doesn't see the numbers they used to since they started charging for profit and moved half way to Minnesota.

 

[347932]

Things that are unique to Scholl is the sports medicine club going downtown this past weekend to treat participants in the Hustle up the Hancock race downtown. They also treat/ volunteer during the Chicago Marathon each year along with volunteering at other large sporting events downtown.

Whenever there is a big event downtown, such as Lollapalooza, who do they recruit along with other medical schools from the IL area? That's right they ask the podiatry students come downtown and assist. This opportunity is actually an excellent one to practice general patient care since a lot individuals that area treated are experiencing both drug and alcohol overdose or whatever crazy stuff that can happen at a massive concert.

This is a perfect thread that shows the upside/ downside of SDN. Students are offering true descriptions of their schools (upside) but then they have the audacity to describe schools they don't even attend and act like they "know" what's going on (downside). I used to play that game but don't anymore. Let the students who go to schools talk about their schools and let's leave it at that.

I know that at TUSPM the students help with Sports events and do community work around the Philly area as well, much as you describe at Scholl. It is NOT unique to Scholl.

You are falling into the same trap as you describe.

 

[347932]

I never said CSP (community service project) was unique to Scholl.

You have the Chicago Marathon, Lollapalooza and the John Hancock observatory in Philly too? Yes I understand other school's students volunteer for activities similar to these. But these events are unique to the Chicago area.

I guess I failed to understand that you meant SPECIFIC events, rather than activities. Seems kind of redundant to say that Chicago Marathon is unique to Chicago. Just saying...

 

[Madura]

[QUOTE This is a perfect thread that shows the upside/ downside of SDN. Students are offering true descriptions of their schools (upside) but then they have the audacity to describe schools they don't even attend and act like they "know" what's going on (downside). I used to play that game but don't anymore. Let the students who go to schools talk about their schools and let's leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

The questions was "if you were accepted to both schools, which would you choose?"

I was in this tough position once (choosing between these 2 schools), so I put in a lot of time and research so I could come up with an accurate comparison between the two. 95% of my post was about my own school, but this person asked why he should choose one over the other, specifically, and so I stated my own thought process that led me to a decision when I was in his shoes (pun intended). Everyone looks for different things in schools and they all have their own qualities (good and bad) that set them apart from the rest.

I wanted to answer this person' s question specifically while avoiding an annoying "my school is better than yours" debate. I know we are both better than that. The one line of my post that was specifically about Scholl is common knowledge in podiatry land, and at first you said you agreed with me. Then by the end of your post you got defensive and claimed that I don't know what I'm talking about. Not arguing ... just didn't completely understand your turn around there.

 

[janV88]

I don't mean to beat the dead horse but both schools are excellent (overall) and what it really comes down to is...where do YOU feel the most comfortable? The biggest factor for success, in anything in life really, is yourself.

2 years ago I also narrowed my choice down to Scholl and DMU. IMO DMU has the leg up in their 1st 2 years while Scholl has the leg up in their last 2 years. I chose Scholl because we spend 18 months on rotations. Yes we do have like 3-4 mandatory Pod rotations in Chicago but we still fit in at least 7-8 (I forget the exact number) individual months of Clerkships before CRIPS. From talking to the upperclassmen it seems that most peoples schedules are: 2 months of non-podiatry core rotations (ER, IM, gen surg, etc), 2 months of mandatory Chicago podiatry rotations, and 8 months of podiatry Clerkship rotations (anywhere in US).

My only complaint with Scholl is that we start our clinical classes in the summer after 1st year. We get a lot of podiatry education in our 2nd year. You might ask, why am I complaining about this? Isn't this good?? Well as a 2nd year my #1 goal is to pass boards. I just wish that I had more time to study for the APMLE part I instead of learning Podiatry stuff which is not on the part I boards. Will I be complaining about this after I pass part I boards? Probably not.

Whichever choice you make, you will be getting an excellent education...as long as you apply yourself. Goodluck.

 

[heybrother]

Hi - with all the spirited debate/discussion would anyone be willing to provide an update to this thread - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=412091. It hasn't really seen an update since.. 2009 and even if you don't follow the template it seems like some DMU/Scholl students could make some contributions regarding their school. Thanks!

 

[Madura]

proper[/B] vitals, history, physical exam, etc. Knowing how to correctly present to an attending and write SOAP notes. Using proper clinical reasoning skills and learning how to communicate with patients. These are all things I feel are more important to develop. If you can't do any of the prior mentioned before you leave for externships...good luck.
ooops I did it again...

This is actually a good point. I'm not in clinic yet, but I hear good things about how our clinic is structured, which is similar to what you're describing here (quality vs. quantity). Between actual exposure to patients, we do evidence-based learning/case studies at DMU, so you get used to thinking through complex cases with members of a team. Depending on what type of learner you are, this could be more valuable in the beginning stages of learning being that you probably wouldn't do much of the hands on stuff for the complex cases when you're just starting out anyway, but you walk through the case, look at the radiographs, and think about it in a a real healthcare setting (3rd years feel free to add your experience as I haven't done this yet). The benefit is that the instructors can make sure you think through every clinically important case before you leave. If you don't use this system on top of the traditional clinical experience, you are limiting yourself to only what walks through the door.

I'll conclude my participation in this thread by going back to the city of Des Moines itself b/c I originally had DMU at the bottom of my list since I like big cities and was guilty of stereotyping Des Moines as a farm town. Everyone I know is happy here and we come from all over. Walking through downtown feels very similar to walking through downtown of any major city. The Hilton will tower above you, Starbucks will be packed, people with suits scurry through the skywalks, the capital looms in the distance, etc. Des Moines was ranked the top new city for young business professionals by Forbes, I believe. The city is packed with trees, bike trails, we have 30-40 golf courses that range from super nice to dirt cheap, free frisbee golf, a multimillion dollar art park, and I already touched on the night life and concert venue, but I'll add that I'll be seeing Jim Gaffigan March 18 and the Zac Brown band was here a couple months ago. I'm not a country fan but downtown was crazy that night. Lastly, you will not see a corn field until you get several miles outside city limits and/or the surrounding suburbs. Des Moines is a nice little city to spend 3 years IMO, and I thought I would be the last person to say that. OK I'm done

 

[347932]

To be honest, right now we avg about 1-2 patients per student every time I go to clinic. In a perfect world I would prefer seeing anywhere from 3-5 patients per clinic day. Nothing more than that. Why? Because at this point in my education and training (P2), it shouldn't be about JUST being exposed to a bunch of different pathologies (a perk at some of the more busier clinics at the other podiatry schools). It should be about being able to take proper vitals, history, physical exam, etc. Knowing how to correctly present to an attending and write SOAP notes. Using proper clinical reasoning skills and learning how to communicate with patients. These are all things I feel are more important to develop. If you can't do any of the prior mentioned before you leave for externships...good luck.

Excellent post with very valid points.

I'm hoping this doesn't come out wrong, but don't bank on your school clinic to teach you a WHOLE lot. You will learn some stuff, but until things really start to come together for you in your fourth year, a lot of the intricacies of the pathology you will see may go right over your head. It will be interesting and I'm sure you will learn from it, but I think what AB said above is VERY important.

Learn these fundamentals and you will start to build on the rest. Well done on an excellent post AB!

 

[SuperFeisty]

Hey, I know this thread has petered out a bit, but I'm in my last week of decisions and wondered if anyone had any additional input? Do any students from Scholl feel like they're just being thrown into the fire? How much of an advantage do Scholl students have in terms of preparation for clinicals vs DMU? An in regards to Boards passing rates, I understand and am very happy with the fact that DMU's rates are outstanding, but why do you think Scholl's are lower? Sorry if these questions seem repetitive, but this is a huge decision for me, and I want to be as best prepared as possible

 

[347932]

Quick question.

When all of you are studying for Boards, do you feel like your learning the material all over again, or is it more of a review?

 

[jdikis]

In short, you won't go wrong with either of the schools. The Scholl students I have met this year (4th year) have all been solid students (which I can't say for all of the other schools).

Don't place too much emphasis on the one clinical year (third year). It doesn't make as much of a difference as you might think by the time you get to 4th year. I've never felt lacking in clinical skills (and in fact, have felt superior to the vast majority of students from other schools).
DMU students aren't solely in the on-campus clinic during third year. We do additional rotations during the third year at Capital Orthopedics, The Iowa Clinic Foot and Ankle, Iowa Methodist Medical Center Internal Medicine, The Iowa Clinic Vascular Surgeons, American Prosthetics and Orthotics, and I've rotated at Des Moines Orthopedic Surgeons as well.

I visited/ rotated at 9 programs during my fourth year (which included a 3 month core rotation). DMU gives you the freedom to choose to rotate at any program in the country you want (no local mandatory rotations during the fourth year).

If you are hesitant to live "on a farm", consider these:
http://www.desmoinesmetro.com/pdfs/OneCityOneVoice/GreaterDesMoinesRankings.pdf
http://www.downtowndesmoines.com/
I grew up in Des Moines (so I'm admittedly biased) but I've never been to a farm or corn field in my life.

Far and away, the most impressive students I've met this year are from Scholl (and DMU, of course) and it isn't even close. [This is just my lowly opinion - of course there are great students at all of the schools].
Best of luck!

 

[janV88]

Hey, I know this thread has petered out a bit, but I'm in my last week of decisions and wondered if anyone had any additional input? Do any students from Scholl feel like they're just being thrown into the fire? How much of an advantage do Scholl students have in terms of preparation for clinicals vs DMU? An in regards to Boards passing rates, I understand and am very happy with the fact that DMU's rates are outstanding, but why do you think Scholl's are lower? Sorry if these questions seem repetitive, but this is a huge decision for me, and I want to be as best prepared as possible

My opinion on this matter is pretty similar to Anklebreaker's and it's pretty much the opinion of most of the students here as well. We just have so much going on that boards studying takes a back seat. In order for Scholl students to be going out on externships starting January of P3 year we have to finish what most other schools do in 3 full years into 2.5 years.

By the time May of P2 year rolls around we are already done with Radiology, Sports med, Pod Med & Surg, PVD, Biomechanics, Surgery, Anesthesia, Pediatric Orthopedics, Dermatology, Orthotics Lab, Medicine, and of course Lower Anatomy. P3 year until December is really chill and relaxed where we basically just review all of these courses in smaller groups PBL (problem-based learning) style. It's Pass/Fail and we review and solidify what we should have already learned in the classroom.

From what the upperclassmen have told me, it sucks before boards but in the end our students feel very comfortable and confident on externships.

 

[robopod97]

My opinion on this matter is pretty similar to Anklebreaker's and it's pretty much the opinion of most of the students here as well. We just have so much going on that boards studying takes a back seat. In order for Scholl students to be going out on externships starting January of P3 year we have to finish what most other schools do in 3 full years into 2.5 years.

By the time May of P2 year rolls around we are already done with Radiology, Sports med, Pod Med & Surg, PVD, Biomechanics, Surgery, Anesthesia, Pediatric Orthopedics, Dermatology, Orthotics Lab, Medicine, and of course Lower Anatomy. P3 year until December is really chill and relaxed where we basically just review all of these courses in smaller groups PBL (problem-based learning) style. It's Pass/Fail and we review and solidify what we should have already learned in the classroom.

From what the upperclassmen have told me, it sucks before boards but in the end our students feel very comfortable and confident on externships.

I am sure residents appreciate having to deal with ill-prepared students. Like they don't already have enough to do. So now they need to provide training to third-year students rather than the college taking responsibility for providing that training. When you can't provide the appropriate training, outsource and hope some learning occurs.

 

[janV88]

I am sure residents appreciate having to deal with ill-prepared students. Like they don't already have enough to do. So now they need to provide training to third-year students rather than the college taking responsibility for providing that training. When you can't provide the appropriate training, outsource and hope some learning occurs.

Are you speaking from first hand knowledge or are you just assuming that Scholl students are ill prepared for externships? From what the upperclassmen have told me, they feel VERY comfortable with the training they got at Scholl.