Dismissed and doing extra due diligence for round two. How to identify programs with supportive faculty?

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bojacksmorshman

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There was a lot left to be desired at my previous program as far as support. Many of my former classmates struggled (and continue to struggle) with their mental health and the constant fear of being dismissed from the program.

This time around I'll absolutely be checking out program graduation rates. My program had almost perfect first-time NPTE pass rates for several years in a row, but more than a few subpar years for graduation rate which I mistakenly didn't take into account when I decided to go there.

Beyond graduation rate, what are some other potential "clues" for evaluating program support?

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There was a lot left to be desired at my previous program as far as support. Many of my former classmates struggled (and continue to struggle) with their mental health and the constant fear of being dismissed from the program.

This time around I'll absolutely be checking out program graduation rates. My program had almost perfect first-time NPTE pass rates for several years in a row, but more than a few subpar years for graduation rate which I mistakenly didn't take into account when I decided to go there.

Beyond graduation rate, what are some other potential "clues" for evaluating program support?
No program is going to say/admit they DON'T have program support or that their support is poor, so interviewing current/former students is probably your best bet. You could also ask the school to outline what support they DO offer, knowing they will probably make it sound as robust and amazing as possible.
Do you mean like tutoring options, professor office hours, open labs? Because a lot of that support is per professor policies/availability, just food for thought
 
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Worth to consider duration of the program: the shorter, the more challenging. Just not everyone is physically/mentally capable of learning that much information within 2.5 years.
 
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No program is going to say/admit they DON'T have program support or that their support is poor, so interviewing current/former students is probably your best bet. You could also ask the school to outline what support they DO offer, knowing they will probably make it sound as robust and amazing as possible.
Do you mean like tutoring options, professor office hours, open labs? Because a lot of that support is per professor policies/availability, just food for thought


You make a good point! That's part of why I'm trying to look at indirect indicators like graduation rate. Tutoring options, office hours, and open labs are also important to me. For instance, I remember interviewing at a program where the faculty and dean all had open door policies in place for office hours. My program offered office hours by appointment only and questions about the material were to be directed to the TA, not the professor.

When I interviewed current/former students before I applied, they spoke very highly of the program with nothing negative to report. Once I became a student myself, a few of them spoke more candidly about specific professors but unfortunately it was too late by then. As a new, excited PT student, I initially blew off the warnings and thought the aforementioned professors were fine, but I, too, ended up having some disappointing interactions with them during my short time in the program. One bullied me through an entire competency and then laughed and ridiculed me when she realized she had successfully shaken my confidence. When my morale was at its lowest and I performed poorly on an important exam, the other told me she believes I have a retention problem but that I would be fine no matter what career I end up in since I'm good with people.

Also, my experience was atypical as a student with a developmental disability who had been utilizing my university's disability services since undergrad. Those resources were more than sufficient in undergrad but their accessibility became somewhat problematic as a graduate level PT student. The university's PT department and disability resource service did not communicate well or have standard policies in place with each other. I continually had to be the middlewoman and advocate for myself on both ends throughout the semester (in undergrad, I only needed to deal with this once at the beginning of each semester). Additionally, the university's disability resource department wasn't aware of how the PT program operates (i.e. schedules, taking accommodation matters into their own hands, etc.) or of program specific test-taking policies, which contributed to some of the issues with accessibility. Because I advocated for myself instead of passively accepting the situation, I was treated like a burden by the professor of my most challenging course, who complained that accommodating me sufficiently sounded "too complicated" and insisted on doing it her way despite desperate requests from me to compromise. After my dismissal, the faculty admitted to my disability resource advisor that they didn't know how to adequately accommodate me, to which my disability resource advisor replied that they should have been utilizing her as a resource all along.

I don't want to completely badmouth the program. It is an excellent program with some talented educators and challenging standards. I know anyone who graduates will have the tools to become a skilled and knowledgeable physical therapist, which is why I'm bummed it didn't work out. I honestly felt extremely burnt out between studying/attending classes all day, constantly advocating for myself, and trying to take care of my worsening mental health. There were a few unique circumstances that resulted in my negative experience, but I'm also aware I can work on myself, have a game plan in place, and develop more efficient study skills to set myself up for success next time around. I want to make sure I'm intentional about applying to programs that care about the success/wellbeing of students beyond NPTE scores/academic reputation. I've been considering creating an anonymous poll since people haven't been completely forthright when asked directly in my experience.
 
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Unfortunately after being dismissed, you are at a disadvantage in the application cycle. You might have to taken anything you get, rather than getting a choice. This means- 1) decide if you get into only a school that might not be A+ in supportive (which different people will have different opinions of), what you can you do on your own to bridge the gaps between what you need and what you feel they are lacking. Or 2) decide that you need to look for a different path. It is wise to think ahead to how you will manage clinical rotations/what supports you would need, as well as a job once on the other side.
 
What kind of support are you asking for? That’s a really nebulous term
 
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Unfortunately after being dismissed, you are at a disadvantage in the application cycle. You might have to taken anything you get, rather than getting a choice. This means- 1) decide if you get into only a school that might not be A+ in supportive (which different people will have different opinions of), what you can you do on your own to bridge the gaps between what you need and what you feel they are lacking. Or 2) decide that you need to look for a different path. It is wise to think ahead to how you will manage clinical rotations/what supports you would need, as well as a job once on the other side.

I've been afraid of that, but I still want to make sure I'm paying application fees for programs I've extensively researched. Since I'll be at a disadvantage this time around, is there anything in particular you'd recommend to improve my chances? I plan to take more kinesiology courses to demonstrate my dedication and improve my foundational knowledge. I'll be casting a wider net this time around for sure. I only applied to 2 programs last time (due to financial constraints) and was lucky enough to have been accepted to both. So my prior GPA and GRE scores were decent but I know my dismissal adds a huge red flag to my application going forward. I don't want to give up but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't anxious about whether this might be the end of the road for me on this path.
 
What kind of support are you asking for? That’s a really nebulous term

Well, that's part of what I'm asking in my original question. While researching programs, I haven't been sure how to quantify "program support" beyond NPTE stats and graduation rate. I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your question. Many universities offer tutoring, office hours, etc. so that seems to be standard for the most part.

I want to know how to avoid the type of program that callously drops a student the minute they're struggling, without regard for why or offering guidance to the student on how they may improve. Or how to choose a program that listens when students ask for help instead of placing blame on the student and implying they're not good enough. It doesn't seem too unreasonable of an expectation considering PT students take out thousands of dollars in loans and must meet rigorous standards for admission in the first place. I know it's not possible to research those things directly because they're vague ideas, so I'm asking what I should consider looking for to get close.
 
You can straight up ask what support they have for students that are struggling. I don't think taking classes or anything will counteract the red flag of dismissal. I would suggest going to meet with admission directors in person if possible, otherwise phone/videocall to talk to them and have a really good explanation of what happened, what you need to be successful, and why it won't happen again. If you don't sell them before they see your app, it is likely going to not get reviewed.
 
You make a good point! That's part of why I'm trying to look at indirect indicators like graduation rate. Tutoring options, office hours, and open labs are also important to me. For instance, I remember interviewing at a program where the faculty and dean all had open door policies in place for office hours. My program offered office hours by appointment only and questions about the material were to be directed to the TA, not the professor.

When I interviewed current/former students before I applied, they spoke very highly of the program with nothing negative to report. Once I became a student myself, a few of them spoke more candidly about specific professors but unfortunately it was too late by then. As a new, excited PT student, I initially blew off the warnings and thought the aforementioned professors were fine, but I, too, ended up having some disappointing interactions with them during my short time in the program. One bullied me through an entire competency and then laughed and ridiculed me when she realized she had successfully shaken my confidence. When my morale was at its lowest and I performed poorly on an important exam, the other told me she believes I have a retention problem but that I would be fine no matter what career I end up in since I'm good with people.

Also, my experience was atypical as a student with a developmental disability who had been utilizing my university's disability services since undergrad. Those resources were more than sufficient in undergrad but their accessibility became somewhat problematic as a graduate level PT student. The university's PT department and disability resource service did not communicate well or have standard policies in place with each other. I continually had to be the middlewoman and advocate for myself on both ends throughout the semester (in undergrad, I only needed to deal with this once at the beginning of each semester). Additionally, the university's disability resource department wasn't aware of how the PT program operates (i.e. schedules, taking accommodation matters into their own hands, etc.) or of program specific test-taking policies, which contributed to some of the issues with accessibility. Because I advocated for myself instead of passively accepting the situation, I was treated like a burden by the professor of my most challenging course, who complained that accommodating me sufficiently sounded "too complicated" and insisted on doing it her way despite desperate requests from me to compromise. After my dismissal, the faculty admitted to my disability resource advisor that they didn't know how to adequately accommodate me, to which my disability resource advisor replied that they should have been utilizing her as a resource all along.

I don't want to completely badmouth the program. It is an excellent program with some talented educators and challenging standards. I know anyone who graduates will have the tools to become a skilled and knowledgeable physical therapist, which is why I'm bummed it didn't work out. I honestly felt extremely burnt out between studying/attending classes all day, constantly advocating for myself, and trying to take care of my worsening mental health. There were a few unique circumstances that resulted in my negative experience, but I'm also aware I can work on myself, have a game plan in place, and develop more efficient study skills to set myself up for success next time around. I want to make sure I'm intentional about applying to programs that care about the success/wellbeing of students beyond NPTE scores/academic reputation. I've been considering creating an anonymous poll since people haven't been completely forthright when asked directly in my experience.

How do you feel about flex programs, where the curriculum is stretched over a longer period? I also have a learning disabilty and have been looking at graduation rates and dismissal policies when deciding where to apply. I'd love to know the school where you didn't feel supported. My thought was a smaller school would be less likely to have a strong disabilty program. Is that a correct assumption? How many students were in your cohort? Do you think a smaller cohort would make it easier to succeed?
 
There was a lot left to be desired at my previous program as far as support. Many of my former classmates struggled (and continue to struggle) with their mental health and the constant fear of being dismissed from the program.

This time around I'll absolutely be checking out program graduation rates. My program had almost perfect first-time NPTE pass rates for several years in a row, but more than a few subpar years for graduation rate which I mistakenly didn't take into account when I decided to go there.

Beyond graduation rate, what are some other potential "clues" for evaluating program support?

When choosing a program, I was vehement asking and following up on these questions:

- What are the professor's policies on communication outside of the classroom?
- How well does the program take student feedback?
- Alumni network
- Student resources
- Campus resources
- Peer counseling

Obviously, a program wants you to do well as it benefits both parties, which is why this post sounds so intriguing.

Would you mind elaborating on your story and struggles? As someone who is starting school in June, I'd like to hear about your experience. You could DM me if you don't feel like doing it publicly.
 
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