Disability Insurance Options- Guardian or Northwestern Mutual?

[sethco]

Bumping an old thread, as I was looking for some opinions for those that have LTD.

I was looking to get individual DI, in addition to the group insurance I already have through work. Does anybody have any experience with Met Life or Standard?

After talking with insurance agents, it seems that these are the only two companies that offer both own-occupation and full coverage of mental disorders/substance abuse.

Are there any more riders that you guys feel are absolutely necessary(besides FPO, COLA, and residual disability)?

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[MD Dreams]

Bumping an old thread, as I was looking for some opinions for those that have LTD.

I was looking to get individual DI, in addition to the group insurance I already have through work. Does anybody have any experience with Met Life or Standard?

After talking with insurance agents, it seems that these are the only two companies that offer both own-occupation and full coverage of mental disorders/substance abuse.

Are there any more riders that you guys feel are absolutely necessary(besides FPO, COLA, and residual disability)?

Guardian and Principal also provides mental/nervous coverage. Any company that covers this will be more expensive, especially for anesthesiology (EM is the other one) because we have one of the highest rates of substance abuse. If you want to cut down on the expense you can get a partial coverage from a program that does not cover mental nervous and a partial one from a program that does.

 

[sethco]

Although Guardian/Prinicipal offer coverage for mental disorders/substance abuse, for Anesthesiologists/Pain docs/EM docs/CRNAs, let limit benefits to 24 months. On the other hand, Standard/Met Life give benefits for the full benefit period (i.e. either 65 or 67 years old). Among the two, Standard is by far much more expensive. Prinicipal is by far the most affordable, but I am getting caught on 24 month rider. Obviously, I dont plan to have any mental disorders/substance abuse issues, but nobody (hopefully!) goes into Anesthesia planning to have these issues either.

You are right though, I am considering splitting the benefits between MetLife and Prinicipal.

 

[IlDestriero]

Although Guardian/Prinicipal offer coverage for mental disorders/substance abuse, for Anesthesiologists/Pain docs/EM docs/CRNAs, let limit benefits to 24 months. On the other hand, Standard/Met Life give benefits for the full benefit period (i.e. either 65 or 67 years old). Among the two, Standard is by far much more expensive. Prinicipal is by far the most affordable, but I am getting caught on 24 month rider. Obviously, I dont plan to have any mental disorders/substance abuse issues, but nobody (hopefully!) goes into Anesthesia planning to have these issues either.

You are right though, I am considering splitting the benefits between MetLife and Prinicipal.

I didn't give it a second thought. No hx of abuse or mental illness in the family. I love a good dram, but not being out of control and drunk. If I get a buzz, I'm already thinking it's time to quit drinking, with rare exception. If you're similar, it seems like an expensive benefit that you'll never almost certainly never use. That's money best spent elsewhere, like on good whisky. I'm also a positive, glass half full person and I think that helps.
I'm sure that for some people, the benefit is absolutely worth the extra money. Splitting coverage is probably a reasonable idea as well.

 

[pjl]

I split mine, 75/25, with more at the lower rate, but a small backup in case something totally unexpected happens.

 

[pgg]

I didn't give it a second thought. No hx of abuse or mental illness in the family. I love a good dram, but not being out of control and drunk. If I get a buzz, I'm already thinking it's time to quit drinking, with rare exception. If you're similar, it seems like an expensive benefit that you'll never almost certainly never use. That's money best spent elsewhere, like on good whisky. I'm also a positive, glass half full person and I think that helps.

I can't imagine ever needing that benefit either, I barely even drink. Needing the suicide clause payout seems unlikely too. But the two people I've known who sampled the blue syringes and lost everything they had probably thought they were low risk too.

 

[MR Insurance]

I can't imagine ever needing that benefit either, I barely even drink. Needing the suicide clause payout seems unlikely too. But the two people I've known who sampled the blue syringes and lost everything they had probably thought they were low risk too.

Also consider the impact of a tragic, unexpected death of a child or spouse. Could depression become an issue?

Splitting the coverage is always a good option and one that many Anesthesiologists and ER docs subscribe to. Your thought process seems to be in line - my only addition would be to consider that your group coverage will likely be limiting benefits for these conditions to 24-months already. You indicated that you are now considering supplementing the existing group coverage, which likely means that you are not looking at an enormous amount of individual monthly benefit. Might just be worth spending the few extra bucks and getting 100% MetLife or Standard, as this will essentially end up being similar - 50/50 Group/Individual

Not that they can be found everywhere, but might be worth checking for discounts. Could help make the premiums more tolerable.

 

[IlDestriero]

But the two people I've known who sampled the blue syringes and lost everything they had probably thought they were low risk too.

"Damn it Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic [blue syringe]. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"

 

[Twptophan]

Just wondering, what are the chances of becoming disabled to the point where one is unable to perform anesthesia yet still work? Anyone have colleagues who met this criteria?
I view insurance as a tool to protect against catastrophe such as a horrific car accident. Would regular generic long term disability that is not true own-occ be fine for the vast majority of cases?
It seems as though the annual premium for the own-occ insurance is about 2-3% of the potential annual payout. Is this too a high rate to be paying? I'm curious how generic long term disability compares in terms of premiums.

 

[MR Insurance]

Just wondering, what are the chances of becoming disabled to the point where one is unable to perform anesthesia yet still work? Anyone have colleagues who met this criteria?
I view insurance as a tool to protect against catastrophe such as a horrific car accident. Would regular generic long term disability that is not true own-occ be fine for the vast majority of cases?
It seems as though the annual premium for the own-occ insurance is about 2-3% of the potential annual payout. Is this too a high rate to be paying? I'm curious how generic long term disability compares in terms of premiums.

Asking about others experiences on a forum like this is actually really smart. Unfortunately, the insurance companies don't release this detailed of information regarding their claims experiences so you'll only hear about it from others. I've heard plenty of stories and have some of my own where physicians were no longer able to work in their specialty but could work in other capacities, but it may not mean much to you coming from someone who sells disability insurance for a living. A second thought would be to visit disability insurance attorney websites like DIAttorney.com and read about their success stories with physicians.

I completely understand and value your logic on using insurance to protect against catastrophe - it makes a lot of sense. With disability insurance though, it is important to recognize that most disabilities are catastrophic to a person's financial situation but may not necessarily be a catastrophic injury (horrific car accident) like you said. Statistics show that roughly 90% of all long-term disability claims are actually caused by illness, not accidents. You can access some helpful statistics at DisabilityCanHappen.org. The third chart specifically address the leading causes of disabilities nationwide.

The annual premium you mentioned is normal for the better true Own-Occupation policies especially for Anesthesiologists, a specialty that falls within the higher risk and more costly occupational classifications. Buying this coverage at a younger age helps make it more affordable but it's still pricey. Based on your comments, you are probably someone who can best be served by purchasing a mid-grade policy. A policy that still includes the true Own-Occupation provision and all important features/riders, but perhaps is simply not the best of the best. Depending on the state in which you live, perhaps look toward Principal, Ameritas and Guardian's ProVider Limited Policy. MetLife, Standard and Guardian's ProVider Plus will likely be too costly for someone who doesn't fully value the enhanced benefits. Ask the agent you work with about all possible discounts as this would clearly help too.

Best of luck in making a decision. Just be sure to do your research first. There is a good reason so many people pay the hefty premiums for this type of coverage.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Just wondering, what are the chances of becoming disabled to the point where one is unable to perform anesthesia yet still work? Anyone have colleagues who met this criteria?

I know an anesthesiologist who lost the use of his intubating arm after a traumatic injury. I'm sure there are many non-anesthesia jobs that he could do.

 

[pgg]

Just wondering, what are the chances of becoming disabled to the point where one is unable to perform anesthesia yet still work? Anyone have colleagues who met this criteria?

I knew an anesthesiologist with Parkinson's when I was a resident. He had a deep brain stimulator and kept working for a while. Just as smart as ever, wonderful teacher, but I guess the loss of fine motor control got to be a problem and he's no longer practicing. I'm sure there are 100 other jobs in and out of medicine he could've done.

I talked to him about his disability insurance at one point. As I recall he had two policies from different companies, and (I think) there was some minor drama about which would pay how much since his total coverage exceeded his actual pay the year he was diagnosed. But it worked out and I have no doubt at all he was glad to have disability insurance.


I pay what I think is a pretty steep price for an individual DI policy, to supplement what I get via the Navy. Sometimes I wonder if I'm overinsured. But then I think of him.

 

[Man o War]

I know an anesthesiologist who lost the use of his intubating arm after a traumatic injury. I'm sure there are many non-anesthesia jobs that he could do.

I know an anesthesiologist drawing disability in his 40s. Nerve damage to intubating arm. Perfectly able to work, but can't do anesthesia, so he draws quite a nice tax free living. When I asked him which disability company to buy my coverage from he said hands down Principal. He said they were the easiest to deal with when it came time to start cashing in on his policy, and didn't try to wiggle out of paying benefits he was due (he has 3 different companies paying benefits to him).