depressed asian, in need of advice...chances: residency vs phd

[bebebubu]

summary of my situation:
-img, graduated 2004
-migrated to US 2008 for marriage, now a green card holder
-first job: medical assistant
-present job: non-certified pathology laboratory technician/histotechnician
-step 1: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 ck: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 cs: 1 try, passed

Questions: with this background...
- do i have better chances of getting into a residency program if i still try to repeat steps 1 and 2?
- i am also considering just focusing in research and apply for phd programs or mph...

... help please...

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[indya]

summary of my situation:
-img, graduated 2004
-migrated to US 2008 for marriage, now a green card holder
-first job: medical assistant
-present job: non-certified pathology laboratory technician/histotechnician
-step 1: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 ck: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 cs: 1 try, passed

Questions: with this background...
- do i have better chances of getting into a residency program if i still try to repeat steps 1 and 2?
- i am also considering just focusing in research and apply for phd programs or mph...

... help please...

I'm not very experienced in this sort of thing, but I don't think any residency programs will even look at your app without a good Step 1 and probably Step 2. You will probably have a better chance for PhD, but for those, you will most likely need GRE scores, but that is supposedly a relatively easy test, though.

 

[schandan13]

summary of my situation:
-img, graduated 2004
-migrated to US 2008 for marriage, now a green card holder
-first job: medical assistant
-present job: non-certified pathology laboratory technician/histotechnician
-step 1: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 ck: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 cs: 1 try, passed

Questions: with this background...
- do i have better chances of getting into a residency program if i still try to repeat steps 1 and 2?
- i am also considering just focusing in research and apply for phd programs or mph...

... help please...

Sorry to hear about your situation. There are a number of things going against you which the GC status can't alleviate. That being 6 years since graduation and the multiple attempts at USMLEs.

Even so if you are determined to become a doctor i'd say give the steps one last try. Many programs have the 3-strike rule and will not consider you once you fail it 3 times. So if you're able to manage passing scores, you may still be atleast eligible to apply to a few programs. I hate to say this but your chances are bleak.

As for MPH/PhD, well, they are routes but don't think of them to be alternatives to medicine in anyway. As the previous poster mentioned that you'd have to take the GRE to get into a masters program first and then take it to PhD from there. That is a alot easier than the USMLE though, so you can give it a shot.

I know of somebody who graduated 8 years back and applied to +200 FM programs last year. He had 2 interviews but didn't match. He was a non citizen though. There is a huge rush of 99ers these days and if not that, programs are alot more open to taking fresh graduates since they consider them "wet clay".

IMO, just give it one more try and if it doesn't work out, consider other options. All the best.

 

[Shinken]

-img, graduated 2004
-step 1: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 ck: 2 tries, both failed
-step 2 cs: 1 try, passed

At this time, it would be wise to be very realistic about your situation. I understand you're going through tough times deciding what to do and whether medicine is still an option, but you have to face the fact that medicine is likely out of the question.

(1) The fact that you graduated 6 years ago and have yet to pass steps 1 and 2 essentially eliminates graduate medical education for you. Most (maybe all?) residency programs have time limits on date of graduation before entering their training programs. Most programs won't look at your application if you've been out of school for 5 years or more.

(2) In addition to the above, no residency program in the US will take you without first passing both steps 1 and 2.

(3) As you stand right now, you should not waste your time applying to residency programs in the US mainly because of #2.

(4) Assuming you re-take and pass steps 1 and 2 (which will likely add another year to your 6 years post-graduation), it would still be very unlikely a residency program will take you because of the time elapsed since graduation and the multiple attempts at passing USMLE.

Are you certain that if you manage to pass steps 1 and 2 and somehow land a residency spot that step 3 will not be an issue for you? You have to be aware of the requirements for licensure for IMGs in the various states, especially the time limit to pass ALL steps which in many states is 7 years. At 6 years, you haven't passed steps 1 or 2 and have yet to attempt step 3 (even if you started residency training you would not qualify for medical licensure in some states in the US: http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html).

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but you have to seriously look at your situation realistically.

One thing you could do is to enlist the help of a medical career counselor. There are some out there that can give you advice on how best to proceed, just be aware that there will be cost involved with that route.

 

[georgelucas45]

Let's say the OP waited 2 years... After 7 years, do his old scores get erased from his record (ie. he gets a clean slate)? I really have no idea, just curious if anyone knew, because being just an old grad is infinitely better than an old grad with multiple attempts.

OP, if this doesn't work, it really is impossible for you to get a residency in the US. You have more than 3 TOTAL fails, which disqualifies you from getting a license in many states.

As the other poster mentioned, no program will want to take the risk that you will not pass step 3 and they then wasted all their time training you... especially when there are many promising, newer graduates.

Don't want to be a dream breaker, but unfortunately that is the reality of your situation.

 

[schandan13]

Your highest chances of matching are in your first shot. Then (depending on whether if you're a non US citizen, and take a year off for research/step 3) they decrease marginally the 2nd time. But that's where it ends. Beyond that, the more the gap, the lesser are your chances.

So even if the OP waits 2 years and gives his steps and clears them, there would still have been a HUGE gap on his application which will be very hard to justify. Programs prefer to take graduates who studied during school and got a 95 than take those who took 2 years off (FMGs) and got a 99. There is a reason why programs prefer younger graduates....they're considered "wet clay".

If it's a question of getting past the 7 year mark, IMO the OP should try and get a solid research spot in a university affiliated hospital. Work alongside faculty and build his CV with publications et al. Could that work I read once about someone who cleared both steps in the second attempts and STILL matched in Psychiatry.

 

[bebebubu]

Sorry to hear about your situation. There are a number of things going against you which the GC status can't alleviate. That being 6 years since graduation and the multiple attempts at USMLEs.

Even so if you are determined to become a doctor i'd say give the steps one last try. Many programs have the 3-strike rule and will not consider you once you fail it 3 times. So if you're able to manage passing scores, you may still be atleast eligible to apply to a few programs. I hate to say this but your chances are bleak.

As for MPH/PhD, well, they are routes but don't think of them to be alternatives to medicine in anyway. As the previous poster mentioned that you'd have to take the GRE to get into a masters program first and then take it to PhD from there. That is a alot easier than the USMLE though, so you can give it a shot.

I know of somebody who graduated 8 years back and applied to +200 FM programs last year. He had 2 interviews but didn't match. He was a non citizen though. There is a huge rush of 99ers these days and if not that, programs are alot more open to taking fresh graduates since they consider them "wet clay".

IMO, just give it one more try and if it doesn't work out, consider other options. All the best.

Thank you, Schandan13...
I probably will give it one more try... like they say...
it comes in 3's...
lol.
Would you know of IMG's who just got their PhD's instead of pursuing their USMLE's?

 

[bebebubu]

Oh, and I just want to make a clarification...Actually, I did not start my ECFMG process until 2007. I took my first exam in 2008. I was in a residency program in my home country, when I met my husband, and we finally decided that it might be better to just resign from my residency program, and start working on my exams here in the US, since, I would eventually start from square 1 anyway. Had to get jobs, so I had been working full time while studying... and I don't think that worked to my favor... except that one of my bosses, said, that he can help me get into the program he graduated from...

So, 6 years from graduation, and 3 years since I started the ECFMG process... 4 years to the 7 year expiration...

I'm not sure if that errata even matters... but I do appreciate your insight on my case. I was losing hope that someone would even bother...
thanks, you guys...

may countless blessings come back your way...

 

[schandan13]

Oh, and I just want to make a clarification...Actually, I did not start my ECFMG process until 2007. I took my first exam in 2008. I was in a residency program in my home country, when I met my husband, and we finally decided that it might be better to just resign from my residency program, and start working on my exams here in the US, since, I would eventually start from square 1 anyway. Had to get jobs, so I had been working full time while studying... and I don't think that worked to my favor... except that one of my bosses, said, that he can help me get into the program he graduated from...

So, 6 years from graduation, and 3 years since I started the ECFMG process... 4 years to the 7 year expiration...

I'm not sure if that errata even matters... but I do appreciate your insight on my case. I was losing hope that someone would even bother...
thanks, you guys...

may countless blessings come back your way...

The obvious hindrances in your case are 1. multiple attempts 2. time since graduation. You pursuing residency elsewhere does help your case a bit since you didn't take that time to prepare for the step. You could probably use "full time job" for the multiple attempts bit. Things that marginally work in your favor (considering the overall application) is that you have a GC. So you can pretty much apply across the board.

It's better to go out trying your best than to be left wondering in the end with "what if". If financial constraints aren't an issue, i'd say just give it your last chance. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the 7 year rule existed only if you've scored 75+ (passed) the first time If you fail, i thought, you could retake it earlier than the 7 year expiration date. Check into that.

I know somebody who graduated 9 years back and is applying this year to FM. Last year with 200+ programs he got 2 interviews and didn't match. Everyone would agree that your chances are very close to 0 at the moment, but as i said, you'd have to live with "what if" all your life. Give it your all this last time.

PhD would be a whole different issue. That's a wiser route out at the moment. But it's ultimately what you want to do.....for the rest of your life.

 

[bebebubu]

The obvious hindrances in your case are 1. multiple attempts 2. time since graduation. You pursuing residency elsewhere does help your case a bit since you didn't take that time to prepare for the step. You could probably use "full time job" for the multiple attempts bit. Things that marginally work in your favor (considering the overall application) is that you have a GC. So you can pretty much apply across the board.

It's better to go out trying your best than to be left wondering in the end with "what if". If financial constraints aren't an issue, i'd say just give it your last chance. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the 7 year rule existed only if you've scored 75+ (passed) the first time If you fail, i thought, you could retake it earlier than the 7 year expiration date. Check into that.

I know somebody who graduated 9 years back and is applying this year to FM. Last year with 200+ programs he got 2 interviews and didn't match. Everyone would agree that your chances are very close to 0 at the moment, but as i said, you'd have to live with "what if" all your life. Give it your all this last time.

PhD would be a whole different issue. That's a wiser route out at the moment. But it's ultimately what you want to do.....for the rest of your life.

again, thank you very much.