Dentist Salary Compilation

[yappy]

Interesting to see most people agree with the poster you replied to. As a physician, I dont think I have heard physicians voiced similar things. It would be crazy for a physician (the owner of a practice) to think the new ophthalmologist or ENT or Nephrologist etc... grad would only take on the low hanging fruits (eg., low reimbursement cases) until that person proves him/herself... Usually physician trust their peer enough to know when they are in over their head until they show otherwise...

Maybe that type of mindset is out there among physicians, but I have not noticed it...

I think there are two reasons for the difference:
1.) Some offices do not have the capacity to support two high quality FTE positions. Therefore, the owner assumes the duties that they prefer. In most cases the hope is that the the practice will grow to support both doctors.

2.) General dentists do not have to do a residency. Therefore, the skill among new graduates is highly variable and often times lacking beyond very basic dental procedures.

How to remedy these issues? Mandate residency training and consolidation of the industry similar to what has happened in medicine.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[P7898]

I think there are two reasons for the difference:
1.) Some offices do not have the capacity to support two high quality FTE positions. Therefore, the owner assumes the duties that they prefer. In most cases the hope is that the the practice will grow to support both doctors.

2.) General dentists do not have to do a residency. Therefore, the skill among new graduates is highly variable and often times lacking beyond very basic dental procedures.

How to remedy these issues? Mandate residency training and consolidation of the industry similar to what has happened in medicine.

I think this would help a lot. Mandate 1 year residency for GPs and decrease the amount of the schools and DSO presence. This would increase the benefit of dentistry greatly. But people do not care about the well being 30 years from now - they only care about the profitability of today.

 

[yappy]

I think this would help a lot. Mandate 1 year residency for GPs and decrease the amount of the schools and DSO presence. This would increase the benefit of dentistry greatly. But people do not care about the well being 30 years from now - they only care about the profitability of today.

It's not even about "dentistry" as a profession. It's about the well beings of patients and protecting the public. We need better research, evidence based standardization, and mandatory AEGD style residencies.

 

[P7898]

It's not even about "dentistry" as a profession. It's about the well beings of patients and protecting the public. We need better research, evidence based standardization, and mandatory AEGD style residencies.

Right that is protecting dentistry as a profession. It is all encompassing. Higher standard of care with higher clinical abilities. Agreed.

 

[GoDental101]

Right that is protecting dentistry as a profession. It is all encompassing. Higher standard of care with higher clinical abilities. Agreed.

It would also raise the cost of dental care for the average consumer. The market has spoken. People don't want more expensive/higher quality dentistry they want more affordable/cheaper dentistry.

 

[yappy]

It would also raise the cost of dental care for the average consumer. The market has spoken. People don't want more expensive/higher quality dentistry they want more affordable/cheaper dentistry.

I don’t think it would. Increasing tuition has not impacted the cost of dental care.

As far as affordability and the market, it has been my experience that most people want better insurance products. Most people are unable, or are unwilling, to pay for dental services, similar to physicians visits, blood work and medication. However, unlike medical, dental insurance sucks because the benefits are so little.

In my locale there are some firms that have insurance products with large benefits that compensate fairly well. It is win win because the patient gets the care that they need and they don’t have to bear the brunt of the cost.

 

[P7898]

It would also raise the cost of dental care for the average consumer. The market has spoken. People don't want more expensive/higher quality dentistry they want more affordable/cheaper dentistry.

True

 

[charlestweed]

I think it’s unfair to force a dentist, who has good clinical skills and feels he’s ready to work in the real world, to do another year of residency. Dentistry is a hands-on profession. The more patients you treat, the more you learn. You can’t rely on the instructors to help bail you out forever. It takes longer for a child to learn how to ride a bike, if you delay in taking off the training wheels. GPR/AEGD programs should only be for those who feel they need the additional trainings.

Increase in competition is the main motivation for the dentists to do good work on their patients. To maintain the success of their practices, dentists have to work hard to keep their patients happy and to earn their trust, which should help increase the word-of-mouth referrals greatly. No patients would return to see the same dentist who is notorious for doing poor dentistry or for being an unethical person. That’s why private dental offices continue to thrive in many areas and cannot be completely taken over by the corp offices, which are notorious for their low quality of care and poor customer service. Dentistry will never be like pharmacy and optometry.

There are dentists who just want to do simple procedures with more predictable outcomes and fewer post-op complications. They want a work-life balance and therefore, they choose work at government run dental clinics (VA, prisons etc) or at offices, where the owners only want their associates to perform simple restorative cases. There are dentists, who want to do bigger procedures and they are not afraid to challenge themselves with difficult cases. They take CE classes with their own money. It should be up to each individual dentist to decide what he/she wants to do with his/her DDS degree. IMO, there shouldn’t be a one-size-fits-all policy that forces every dentist to do a year of residency.

 

[yappy]

edit*

 

[Deep Impact]

]Years of Experience: 10
Specialty or General: OMS
City or Rural: Small city/rural
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Corp and Federal
Insurances: some medicaid at corp/also most major insurance as well
Days/weeks per year: 5 day/wk. 30 days Vacation with all federal holidays off
Salary: $220k at federal/$480k at corp 3 days/2-2.5 days, my pretax was approx 700k last year. I’m keeping my federal job for extra pension
I made $300k plus some bonuses as “junior partner” at some poorly run private practice. I haven’t regretted leaving that place for one second.

 

[Splenda88]

]Years of Experience: 10
Specialty or General: OMS
City or Rural: Small city/rural
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Corp and Federal
Insurances: some medicaid at corp/also most major insurance as well
Days/weeks per year: 5 day/wk. 30 days Vacation with all federal holidays off
Salary: $220k at federal/$480k at corp 3 days/2-2.5 days, my pretax was approx 700k last year. I’m keeping my federal job for extra pension
I made $300k plus some bonuses as “junior partner” at some poorly run private practice. I haven’t regretted leaving that place for one second.

I guess OMS has a $$$ printing machine just like GI, Heme/Onc and spine surgeons

 

[FutureDent020]

Years of Experience: 1
Specialty or General: Endo
City or Rural: City (southeast)
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Private Associateship, but owner just sold to Endo1
Insurances: Delta, Aetna, MetLife, Cigna
Days/weeks per year: 4.5 days (45% collections)
Salary: ~$420,000 before taxes and deductions

 

[cmsmith85]

Years of Experience: 1
Specialty or General: Endo
City or Rural: City (southeast)
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Private Associateship, but owner just sold to Endo1
Insurances: Delta, Aetna, MetLife, Cigna
Days/weeks per year: 4.5 days (45% collections)
Salary: ~$420,000 before taxes and deductions

Solid numbers for your first year out! Good job.

 

[D1Bound]

]Years of Experience: 10
Specialty or General: OMS
City or Rural: Small city/rural
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Corp and Federal
Insurances: some medicaid at corp/also most major insurance as well
Days/weeks per year: 5 day/wk. 30 days Vacation with all federal holidays off
Salary: $220k at federal/$480k at corp 3 days/2-2.5 days, my pretax was approx 700k last year. I’m keeping my federal job for extra pension
I made $300k plus some bonuses as “junior partner” at some poorly run private practice. I haven’t regretted leaving that place for one second.

If you left your federal job and cranked it couldn’t you dwarf that pension you’re working for? Do you just really like your job? I’m intrigued to know what the job is

 

[Deep Impact]

If you left your federal job and cranked it couldn’t you dwarf that pension you’re working for? Do you just really like your job? I’m intrigued to know what the job is

I did couple years ago and made a ton but it was way too much for my body to crank out surgeries at that pace 5 days a week. So far, this has been the perfect balance for me. But I have the option to increase my days anytime. I had prior federal service of over 10 years, so the pension with laid back schedule for 3 days has been really perfect with work/life balance.

 

[charlestweed]

Solid numbers for your first year out! Good job.

Yeah, very nice! This is nearly twice as much as what I made when I first graduated. And this is in 2022… not 20 years ago. If I could make this much, I wouldn’t mind taking out a $600k-1million student loan to earn an endo certificate. I’d rather be in this debt situation and have this nice salary than being debt-free and only making $120k.

 

[Splenda88]

Yeah, very nice! This is nearly twice as much as what I made when I first graduated. And this is in 2022… not 20 years ago. If I could make this much, I wouldn’t mind taking out a $600k-1million student loan to earn an endo certificate. I’d rather be in this debt situation and have this nice salary than being debt-free and only making $120k.

This brings an interesting point. I see a a lot doctors (physicians/dentists) keep saying they would rather make 100-200k and be debt free.

It is heck of a lot better to makie 400k/yr and be in debt 300-400k. In all honesty, most doctors can pay back their student loan in 3-4 years if it's a priority

 

[charlestweed]

This brings an interesting point. I see a a lot doctors (physicians/dentists) keep saying they would rather make 100-200k and be debt free.

It is heck of a lot better to makie 400k/yr and be in debt 300-400k. In all honesty, most doctors can pay back their student loan in 3-4 years if it's a priority

IMO, even if you have zero debt, making $100-200k is not enough, especially if you live in a big city and if you have kids to support. With this salary, you will probably have to work until you’re 65 and barely save enough to retire comfortably .

If I were a healthy young doc (in my late 20s, early 30s) and had a massive amount of student loan debt, I wouldn’t just be content with working 4-4. 5 days/wk and making $400-450k…Instead, I would add another work day per week (by working 6 days/wk) to increase the income to $550-600k. So I could buy myself a nice house and car (gotta enjoy life while working hard) while trying to pay off the student loan debt in 3-4 years. In 6-7 years, I should be ahead of the guy who has zero debt but only makes 120k/year.

 

[Splenda88]

IMO, even if you have zero debt, making $100-200k is not enough, especially if you live in a big city and if you have kids to support. With this salary, you will probably have to work until you’re 65 and barely save enough to retire comfortably .

If I were a healthy young doc (in my late 20s, early 30s) and had a massive amount of student loan debt, I wouldn’t just be content with working 4-4. 5 days/wk and making $400-450k…Instead, I would add another work day per week (by working 6 days/wk) to increase the income to $550-600k. So I could buy myself a nice house and car (gotta enjoy life while working hard) while trying to pay off the student loan debt in 3-4 years. In 6-7 years, I should be ahead of the guy who has zero debt but only makes 120k/year.

I think ~5% of individuals in the US make 200k/yr. If you tell the regular Joe that 200k/yr is not enough to support a family, they would say you are out of touch. However, I agree that you need to have a household income of 400k+ IMO to live comfortably in some of the big cities in the US.

My other point is that I don't get why a family of 4 (typical American families) would need a house > 2500 sqft. If you are making more than 1 million per year and live in a low COL area, I might understand why one would buy a big home since the mortgage payment won't make a big dent in your income. But for household whose income is 200k-500k, you just need a 1800-2200 sqft home in a good school district.

 

[charlestweed]

I think ~5% of individuals in the US make 200k/yr. If you tell the regular Joe that 200k/yr is not enough to support a family, they would say you are out of touch. However, I agree that you need to have a household income of 400k+ IMO to live comfortably in some of the big cities in the US.

And this is the common mistake that many new grad docs have made. They thought $200k salary was a lot. And therefore, they only worked 4 or less days a week. They went out buying a bunch of nice expensive things. They thought they were young enough and showed no urgency of saving and investing for their future retirement. 10-15 years have gone by…..and they started to realize that they haven’t been able to save anything…..they are still in a lot of debts.....still have a home mortgage to pay. By that time, it may be too late because being at 45-50, they start to have ache and pain in their body....and no longer have the same energy to work the same way like when they were in their early 30s. The 2008 housing bubble was a big wakeup call for me…..that’s when I started to realize that I had to start cutting down on the spendings and start investing.

If you want to raise and give your kids a better lifestyle than what your parents was able to give you when you were their age, then I am afraid making $200k is not enough….unless you are ok with telling each of your kids that “Hey son, you are 18 yo now, our job as parents is done, you are now on your own, you have to take out student loans to pay for your college education."

My other point is that I don't get why a family of 4 (typical American families) would need a house > 2500 sqft. If you are making more than 1 million per year and live in a low COL area, I might understand why one would buy a big home since the mortgage payment won't make a big dent in your income. But for household whose income is 200k-500k, you just need a 1800-2200 sqft home in a good school district.

But you are the top income earners in America….you spend 8+ years of schooling after HS…..you can’t just live in an average sized house in an average neighborhood. I chose to work 6 days/wk because I didn’t want to live a small house. Gotta have at least a 3-car garage.

The good thing is you can't go wrong with buying a house. It always apreciates in value. As you get older, you sell your big house and downgrade to a smaller house. And use the profit to enjoy your retirement.

But for household whose income is 200k-500k, you just need a 1800-2200 sqft home in a good school district.

Here in Orange County, CA, a house of this size would cost you at least $1.2 million....and this is just in an average area. It would cost you $1.5 millions or more if you want to live in a nicer safer neighborhood with good schools. So you would need to make a lot more than $200k if you want to live here. Home prices have gone up everywhere….not just in CA.

 

[Splenda88]

And this is the common mistake that many new grad docs have made. They thought $200k salary was a lot. And therefore, they only worked 4 or less days a week. They went out buying a bunch of nice expensive things. They thought they were young enough and showed no urgency of saving and investing for their future retirement. 10-15 years have gone by…..and they started to realize that they haven’t been able to save anything…..they are still in a lot of debts.....still have a home mortgage to pay. By that time, it may be too late because being at 45-50, they start to have ache and pain in their body....and no longer have the same energy to work the same way like when they were in their early 30s. The 2008 housing bubble was a big wakeup call for me…..that’s when I started to realize that I had to start cutting down on the spendings and start investing.

If you want to raise and give your kids a better lifestyle than what your parents was able to give you when you were their age, then I am afraid making $200k is not enough….unless you are ok with telling your each of your kids that “Hey son, you are 18 yo now, our job as parents is done, you are now on your own, you have to take out student loans to pay for your college education.

But you are the top income earners in America….you spend 8+ years of schooling after HS…..you can’t just live in an average sized house in an average neighborhood. I chose to work 6 days/wk because I didn’t want to live a small house. Gotta have at least a 3-car garage.

The good thing is you can't go wrong with buying a house. It always apreciates in value. As you get older, you sell your big house and downgrade to a smaller house. And use the profit to enjoy your retirement.

Here in Orange County, CA, a house of this size would cost you at least $1.2 million....and this is just in an average area. It would cost you $1.5 millions or more if you want to live in a nicer safer neighborhood with good schools. So you would need to make a lot more than $200k if you want to live here. Home prices have gone up everywhere….not just in CA.

As smart as we (doctors) are, most of us dont understand it's better to front load (eg.,working crazy # of hrs early in your career) your retirement and let compound interest do the rest of the work for you.

As far as giving your kids a better lifestyle, it's a matter of perspective. If my kids have the privilege to live in a decent neighborhood, attend above average grade schools, and I can help them financially thru college, I believe that is good enough. More than 70% of kids in the US dont have that kind of opportunities.

I always wonder about a family of 4 that live in a >3000 sqft home; do they use all that space? Why a 3rd car garage in your case?

I am renting a 1620 sqft home with 2-car garage right now and I think it's plenty of space for us (a family of 4).

Home price in some the cities in the US is outrageous. I can't see myself buying 1 mil dollar home even if my salary was 1 million dollars per year. Thank God that homes are not too expensive where I am right now.

 

[yappy]

200k salary is amazing. If you make 200k, that means you earn more than ~95% of families in the US. After tax, that's ~12k per month. If you save 25% for retirement, and only work 25 years, assuming 8% annual returns, you will have ~2.75 million in retirement. If you work until traditional retirement age (62) you would have 7 million. A 25% savings rate with a 200k salary leaves you with 9k per month to live on.

The average cost of a home in the US is 450k (2,567 / month @ 5.5% interest 30 years). Therefore, the average mortgage is 28% of the 9k , which is within the recommended 25-30% range. So after taxes, retirement and housing costs a 200k salary leaves you with a monthly budget of $6433.

Material things are an empty pursuit because most of our desires are in response to well organized marketing. If someone is making 200k they've won the game, they just only need to not mess it up.

 

[charlestweed]

As smart as we (doctors) are, most of us dont understand it's better to front load (eg.,working crazy # of hrs early in your career) your retirement and let compound interest do the rest of the work for you.

I was among these dentists when I was a young new grad. I wanted instant gratification. If the 2008 recession didn’t happen, I wouldn’t have learned to become more careful with my spendings …I woudn’t have started saving/investing for my retirement.

As far as giving your kids a better lifestyle, it's a matter of perspective. If my kids have the privilege to live in a decent neighborhood, attend above average grade schools, and I can help them financially thru college, I believe that is good enough. More than 70% of kids in the US dont have that kind of opportunities.

I work hard because I don’t want my kids to be among 70% of the kids who have to borrow loans to pay for their educations. My parents had raised me very well with their limited resources. They came here with nothing…no English, no good paying jobs. My dad worked 2 jobs so he could pay for my classical guitar lessons...so my younger brother could get braces. Now, it’s my turn to do the same for my kids.

I always wonder about a family of 4 that live in a >3000 sqft home; do they use all that space? Why a 3rd car garage in your case?

No, you don’t need to have a 3000+sf house. But like I said before, it’s never a complete waste of money when you purchase a house. Buying a house (big or small) is always a good investment. I sold my first house to upgrade to a bigger house…then sold it again to upgrade to an even bigger house. I made nice profits from both of these sales and use them to pay off my student loans (within 5 years). Last December, I sold the house again to downgrade to a smaller one because my son will move out for college this coming Fall. I also made a profit from this sale and I used it to buy another rental property.

The reason we need a big house is we plan to have our parents stay with us permanently when they are too old to take care of themselves. Having a big house increases the privacy. When kids reached their teenage years, they also needed to have their own spaces. My live-in nanny needed to have her own room so we could enjoy our privacy. We invite a lot of friends and relatives to come over for dinners and other celebrations. Having a big house to entertain guests is a plus.

Why a 3rd car garage in your case?

Because my wife is not very good at parking her big SUV in a tight space. I give her the entire double garage space to park her car. And I park in a single garage one. I like to park in the garage so my car stays cleaned for a long time. I don’t want to spend time to defrost the windshield in the morning. I don’t like to park cars on the driveway or on the street because they ruin the beauty of my house. I know….these are all first world problems. It has to be a 3-car width garage. A tandem 3-car garage doesn't count.

 

[charlestweed]

200k salary is amazing. If you make 200k, that means you earn more than ~95% of families in the US. After tax, that's ~12k per month. If you save 25% for retirement, and only work 25 years, assuming 8% annual returns, you will have ~2.75 million in retirement. If you work until traditional retirement age (62) you would have 7 million. A 25% savings rate with a 200k salary leaves you with 9k per month to live on.

The average cost of a home in the US is 450k (2,567 / month @ 5.5% interest 30 years). Therefore, the average mortgage is 28% of the 9k , which is within the recommended 25-30% range. So after taxes, retirement and housing costs a 200k salary leaves you with a monthly budget of $6433.

Material things are an empty pursuit because most of our desires are in response to well organized marketing. If someone is making 200k they've won the game, they just only need to not mess it up.

Wait until you have kids and you will see that $200k is not much. We, dentists, usually work as an dependent contractor or are self employed. We have to buy our own healthcare insurance….that’s easily $1500 a month (for a family of 4) right there. We have to set up our own 401k. We have to pay for malpractice insurances etc. We don't have paid vacations. Kids are expensive.

The reason I come on here to encourage the young grads to work hard now is I don’t want them to regret later on when they get older. Many of my colleagues, who are at my age, still have to worry about things like recessions, inflation, increase in competition, their offices are losing patients, some of their staff are asking for a raise and some are leaving them etc….they still have to worry about work. At 50, they shouldn’t have to worry about any of these.

 

[Splenda88]

200k salary is amazing. If you make 200k, that means you earn more than ~95% of families in the US. After tax, that's ~12k per month. If you save 25% for retirement, and only work 25 years, assuming 8% annual returns, you will have ~2.75 million in retirement. If you work until traditional retirement age (62) you would have 7 million. A 25% savings rate with a 200k salary leaves you with 9k per month to live on.

The average cost of a home in the US is 450k (2,567 / month @ 5.5% interest 30 years). Therefore, the average mortgage is 28% of the 9k , which is within the recommended 25-30% range. So after taxes, retirement and housing costs a 200k salary leaves you with a monthly budget of $6433.

Material things are an empty pursuit because most of our desires are in response to well organized marketing. If someone is making 200k they've won the game, they just only need to not mess it up.

Doctors are not average people, so you should not expect them to live like the average Joe. I don't like to have a big mortgage myself TBH, but the money I dont spend paying for a big home is used for traveling, entertainment because these things are more important to me.

200k these days is not a lot of money even if someone has no student loan. Of course, you and your family won't starve making that but your life won't be that much different from the average middle class family making 80-100k/yr.

 

[Splenda88]

I was among these dentists when I was a young new grad. I wanted instant gratification. If the 2008 recession didn’t happen, I wouldn’t have learned to become more careful with my spendings …I woudn’t have started saving/investing for my retirement.

I work hard because I don’t want my kids to be among 70% of the kids who have to borrow loans to pay for their educations. My parents had raised me very well with their limited resources. They came here with nothing…no English, no good paying jobs. My dad worked 2 jobs so he could pay for my classical guitar lessons...so my younger brother could get braces. Now, it’s my turn to do the same for my kids.

No, you don’t need to have a 3000+sf house. But like I said before, it’s never a complete waste of money when you purchase a house. Buying a house (big or small) is always a good investment. I sold my first house to upgrade to a bigger house…then sold it again to upgrade to an even bigger house. I made nice profits from both of these sales and use them to pay off my student loans (within 5 years). Last December, I sold the house again to downgrade to a smaller one because my son will move out for college this coming Fall. I also made a profit from this sale and I used it to buy another rental property.

The reason we need a big house is we plan to have our parents stay with us permanently when they are too old to take care of themselves. Having a big house increases the privacy. When kids reached their teenage years, they also needed to have their own spaces. My live-in nanny needed to have her own room so we could enjoy our privacy. We invite a lot of friends and relatives to come over for dinners and other celebrations. Having a big house to entertain guests is a plus.

Because my wife is not very good at parking her big SUV in a tight space. I give her the entire double garage space to park her car. And I park in a single garage one. I like to park in the garage so my car stays cleaned for a long time. I don’t want to spend time to defrost the windshield in the morning. I don’t like to park cars on the driveway or on the street because they ruin the beauty of my house. I know….these are all first world problems. It has to be a 3-car width garage. A tandem 3-car garage doesn't count.
View attachment 355396

That house probably worth >1 mil in regular market looking only at that garage and the driveway. If it is in a big market (eg., LA, Miami, NY, DC, Seattle etc...), it's probably worth 2+ mil.

The 3-car garage make sense in your particular situation. Last year was the first time I started living in a home with garage. Boy! That is a nice thing to have.

 

[2TH MVR]

Everybody is different. The amount of money you make is relative to where you live (COL) and how you like to live. In the end .... your income will determine (or hopefully) the level of your life expenditures.

As @charlestweed has posted. Having a higher income really gives you more options. Options that require money. Again. Not everyone will be high income earners. Or want to be. Life doesn't need to be about "MONEY" if that is your thing. But money helps.

I must be like Charles lol. The more money I made ... the more "THINGS" I wanted. Faster cars. Bigger houses. And when you get older. It gets tough to give up those "extravagances". I'm an empty nester. Yet. My wife and I still live in our large home where we raised both our children. I just can't bring myself to downsize.

There is no right or wrong. Live life.

 

[cl24uw06]

Years of Experience: 12
Specialty or General: General
City or Rural: City
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Owner (2 doctor practice w/ 1 hygienist) Heavy implant/full mouth implant workload.
Insurances: All but no Medicaid
Days/weeks per year: 3
Salary: 2.3M

 

[2thDoc11]

And this is the common mistake that many new grad docs have made. They thought $200k salary was a lot. And therefore, they only worked 4 or less days a week. They went out buying a bunch of nice expensive things. They thought they were young enough and showed no urgency of saving and investing for their future retirement. 10-15 years have gone by…..and they started to realize that they haven’t been able to save anything…..they are still in a lot of debts.....still have a home mortgage to pay. By that time, it may be too late because being at 45-50, they start to have ache and pain in their body....and no longer have the same energy to work the same way like when they were in their early 30s. The 2008 housing bubble was a big wakeup call for me…..that’s when I started to realize that I had to start cutting down on the spendings and start investing.

If you want to raise and give your kids a better lifestyle than what your parents was able to give you when you were their age, then I am afraid making $200k is not enough….unless you are ok with telling your each of your kids that “Hey son, you are 18 yo now, our job as parents is done, you are now on your own, you have to take out student loans to pay for your college education.

But you are the top income earners in America….you spend 8+ years of schooling after HS…..you can’t just live in an average sized house in an average neighborhood. I chose to work 6 days/wk because I didn’t want to live a small house. Gotta have at least a 3-car garage.

The good thing is you can't go wrong with buying a house. It always apreciates in value. As you get older, you sell your big house and downgrade to a smaller house. And use the profit to enjoy your retirement.

Here in Orange County, CA, a house of this size would cost you at least $1.2 million....and this is just in an average area. It would cost you $1.5 millions or more if you want to live in a nicer safer neighborhood with good schools. So you would need to make a lot more than $200k if you want to live here. Home prices have gone up everywhere….not just in CA.

My parents sent all 3 of us kids to college. Bought our first cars. Continue supporting us out of school. All on a 100-120k salary.. they also spend several weeks a year traveling and vacationing. we are in the midwest. I think its about understanding the value of a dollar and knowing when to spend and when to save. just depends on where you live I suppose

 

[FutureDent020]

Years of Experience: 12
Specialty or General: General
City or Rural: City
Company (Corp or Private or Ownership): Owner (2 doctor practice w/ 1 hygienist) Heavy implant/full mouth implant workload.
Insurances: All but no Medicaid
Days/weeks per year: 3
Salary: 2.3M

I would love to see a blacked out tax return doc to verify this. The most successful OMFS I know are between $1-1.5mill/ year and they usually have the highest income potential based on price per procedure / procedures per day. To basically double that as a GP in 3 days a week is wild and hard to believe. It’s like starting a new reconstruction case every other day. But I would love to eat crow on it. Good for you if true.

 

[charlestweed]

The 3-car garage make sense in your particular situation. Last year was the first time I started living in a home with garage. Boy! That is a nice thing to have.

It’s nice, isn’t it? I didn’t have this luxury until I bought my very first house…when I completed my ortho residency and was 29 years old. The 2-car garage at my parents’ house used to be a converted bedroom (unpermitted, of course ) for my younger brother and I to sleep in it.

 

[charlestweed]

My parents sent all 3 of us kids to college. Bought our first cars. Continue supporting us out of school. All on a 100-120k salary.. they also spend several weeks a year traveling and vacationing. we are in the midwest. I think its about understanding the value of a dollar and knowing when to spend and when to save. just depends on where you live I suppose

Like I said before, if you want to give your kids nicer things than what your parents did for you and your siblings, you will need to make a lot more than what your parents used to make....a lot more than $100-120k. You have amazing parents. I hope the sacrifices that they have made for you guys won’t affect their savings for their retirement. If they don’t save enough, don’t forget to help them.

Also keep in mind that things were much cheaper 10-20 years ago. The first car that my dad bought for me was only $550 and it only cost $3-400/year to insure it. During my HS years, the gas price was only $1.80 a gallon. When I graduated in 2001, I bought my first house for only $400k….to buy this same house now, it would cost you $1.23 million (according to Zillow).

Being self-employed, we, dentists, have to make a lot more to compensate for the lack of benefits (health insurance, 401k, paid time off etc) that a typical employee gets from his/her employer.

 

[schmoob]

I would love to see a blacked out tax return doc to verify this. The most successful OMFS I know are between $1-1.5mill/ year and they usually have the highest income potential based on price per procedure / procedures per day. To basically double that as a GP in 3 days a week is wild and hard to believe. It’s like starting a new reconstruction case every other day. But I would love to eat crow on it. Good for you if true.

I believe it. One single full mouth case a month comes out to about $600K in production annually. Some things to keep in mind is that the OS is not restoring the case. And in your scenario the OS is making 1.5MM alone. Here the doc has an associate and a hygienist to make money for him as well.

 

[P7898]

I believe it. One single full mouth case a month comes out to about $600K in production annually. Some things to keep in mind is that the OS is not restoring the case. And in your scenario the OS is making 1.5MM alone. Here the doc has an associate and a hygienist to make money for him as well.

I know a guy like this. But he has a denture and implant practice $4.5mill and 50% overhead.

 

[2TH MVR]

I'm starting to feel poor.

 

[charlestweed]

I'm starting to feel poor.

Me too.

 

[yappy]

Wait until you have kids and you will see that $200k is not much. We, dentists, usually work as an dependent contractor or are self employed. We have to buy our own healthcare insurance….that’s easily $1500 a month (for a family of 4) right there. We have to set up our own 401k. We have to pay for malpractice insurances etc. We don't have paid vacations. Kids are expensive.

The reason I come on here to encourage the young grads to work hard now is I don’t want them to regret later on when they get older. Many of my colleagues, who are at my age, still have to worry about things like recessions, inflation, increase in competition, their offices are losing patients, some of their staff are asking for a raise and some are leaving them etc….they still have to worry about work. At 50, they shouldn’t have to worry about any of these.

200k is still a great income, kids or not. You're out of touch or really bad with money.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I was among these dentists when I was a young new grad. I wanted instant gratification. If the 2008 recession didn’t happen, I wouldn’t have learned to become more careful with my spendings …I woudn’t have started saving/investing for my retirement.

I work hard because I don’t want my kids to be among 70% of the kids who have to borrow loans to pay for their educations. My parents had raised me very well with their limited resources. They came here with nothing…no English, no good paying jobs. My dad worked 2 jobs so he could pay for my classical guitar lessons...so my younger brother could get braces. Now, it’s my turn to do the same for my kids.

No, you don’t need to have a 3000+sf house. But like I said before, it’s never a complete waste of money when you purchase a house. Buying a house (big or small) is always a good investment. I sold my first house to upgrade to a bigger house…then sold it again to upgrade to an even bigger house. I made nice profits from both of these sales and use them to pay off my student loans (within 5 years). Last December, I sold the house again to downgrade to a smaller one because my son will move out for college this coming Fall. I also made a profit from this sale and I used it to buy another rental property.

The reason we need a big house is we plan to have our parents stay with us permanently when they are too old to take care of themselves. Having a big house increases the privacy. When kids reached their teenage years, they also needed to have their own spaces. My live-in nanny needed to have her own room so we could enjoy our privacy. We invite a lot of friends and relatives to come over for dinners and other celebrations. Having a big house to entertain guests is a plus.

Because my wife is not very good at parking her big SUV in a tight space. I give her the entire double garage space to park her car. And I park in a single garage one. I like to park in the garage so my car stays cleaned for a long time. I don’t want to spend time to defrost the windshield in the morning. I don’t like to park cars on the driveway or on the street because they ruin the beauty of my house. I know….these are all first world problems. It has to be a 3-car width garage. A tandem 3-car garage doesn't count.
View attachment 355396

Dr. charlestweed, you need to upgrade to a 4 car garage. I make less than $200k and live in the West Coast. You can buy 4x my house. My house may be dumpy compared to yours but we are quite happy with it

 

[Splenda88]

200k is still a great income, kids or not. You're out of touch or really bad with money.

It's not bad but ain't GREAT either.

 

[Splenda88]

Dr. charlestweed, you need to upgrade to a 4 car garage. I make less than $200k and live in the West Coast. You can buy 4x my house. My house may be dumpy compared to yours but we are quite happy with it

View attachment 355446

Maybe I should get a 3-car garage when I buy my ...

 

[charlestweed]

Dr. charlestweed, you need to upgrade to a 4 car garage. I make less than $200k and live in the West Coast. You can buy 4x my house. My house may be dumpy compared to yours but we are quite happy with it

View attachment 355446

Very nice, Molar Whisperer! I really love the stone veneer. Yeah, the high housing costs keep most of us, Californians, poor. Even with the house fully paid off, I still have to pay at least $3k per month (in property tax + HOA + property insurance + pool and landscape maintenances) to live in it.....and these are fixed expenses that I have to pay for the rest of my life. Things break down and need repairs. My siblings and I have just spent $30k to replace our parents' house's roof. Need $$$ for everything.

 

[Splenda88]

Very nice, Molar Whisperer! I really love the stone veneer. Yeah, the high housing costs keep most of us, Californians, poor. Even with the house fully paid off, I still have to pay at least $3k per month (in property tax + HOA + property insurance + pool and landscape maintenances) to live in it.....and these are fixed expenses that I have to pay for the rest of my life. Things break down and need repairs. My siblings and I have just spent $30k to replace our parents' house's roof. Need $$$ for everything.

Wow! This is insane. I would not feel comfortable spending 3k/month for my residence even if the mortgage was included...

 

[cmsmith85]

Wow! This is insane. I would not feel comfortable spending 3k/month for my residence even if the mortgage was included...

You'll get there! You'll start off thinking like you do now, but eventually the lifestyle creep will happen.

 

[charlestweed]

Wow! This is insane. I would not feel comfortable spending 3k/month for my residence even if the mortgage was included...

Yeah, I know. The tax property tax rate is reasonable here in Orange County, where I live….only around 1.1-1.2%. I’ve heard the property tax rates in some areas in TX are as high as 3%. Some areas require the homeowners to pay the additional mello-roos on top of the regular property tax….I am glad I don’t have to pay that.

 

[cl24uw06]

I would love to see a blacked out tax return doc to verify this. The most successful OMFS I know are between $1-1.5mill/ year and they usually have the highest income potential based on price per procedure / procedures per day. To basically double that as a GP in 3 days a week is wild and hard to believe. It’s like starting a new reconstruction case every other day. But I would love to eat crow on it. Good for you if true.

Our office is very unique my partner takes home 2 million a year as well. The total office collections per year are right around 7 million between the two of us and one hygienist. I work two 12s and one 10 hour shift per week with no breaks. We consistently place about 2000 implants per year, which accounts for about 5 million of our collections. We also manage to have an overhead under 40%.

 

[FutureDent020]

You'll get there! You'll start off thinking like you do now, but eventually the lifestyle creep will happen.

Haha yep. Thought that way, now spending 6K a month on mortgage, property taxes, home insurance.

 

[Splenda88]

Haha yep. Thought that way, now spending 6K a month on mortgage, property taxes, home insurance.

I don't know if I will ever get that way. I will be closing on a brand new home in 2 months and (mortgage + property tax + HOA + landscape maintenance) will be ~$1850. I am already feeling uneasy because my payment will be $250 more than what I am paying for rent now. My salary projection for this year as a hospitalist will be a little over 400k. I guess I am too conservative.

 

[cmsmith85]

I don't know if I will ever get that way. I will be closing on a brand new home in 2 months and (mortgage + property tax + HOA + landscape maintenance ) will be ~$1850. I am already feeling uneasy because my payment will be $250 more than what I am paying for rent now. My salary projection for this year as a hospitalist will be a little over 400k. I guess I am too conservative.

Honestly, that's good of you if you can maintain that. Better to live far below your means and get out of the rat race quicker.

 

[Splenda88]

Honestly, that's good of you if you can maintain that. Better to live far below your means and get out of the rat race quicker.

Yep.. That is the plan... to get out of that rat race in 10 yrs. I will only need a paid off home and 2 mil in my investment accounts.

 

[2thDoc11]

Like I said before, if you want to give your kids nicer things than what your parents did for you and your siblings, you will need to make a lot more than what your parents used to make....a lot more than $100-120k. You have amazing parents. I hope the sacrifices that they have made for you guys won’t affect their savings for their retirement. If they don’t save enough, don’t forget to help them.

Also keep in mind that things were much cheaper 10-20 years ago. The first car that my dad bought for me was only $550 and it only cost $3-400/year to insure it. During my HS years, the gas price was only $1.80 a gallon. When I graduated in 2001, I bought my first house for only $400k….to buy this same house now, it would cost you $1.23 million (according to Zillow).

Being self-employed, we, dentists, have to make a lot more to compensate for the lack of benefits (health insurance, 401k, paid time off etc) that a typical employee gets from his/her employer.

gotta account for inflation, that’s for sure. He’s also been nothin but self-employed since day 1. Ag farmer. Which tells you just how rural we are! haha