?? DENTAL ??

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popoman

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Hi..yes im back =P
Here comes another freshman question..
I guess this is not the Forum to discuss dental stuff but.. NO ONE replies in the dental section so im asking it here..

How hard is the test "DAT"... and what is a good gpa for dental school.. around northeast dental schools.... O i want to get into columbia dental school.. how hard is it to get in there??? Does it really matter what dental school i go??? and... i dunno...
o when to study for DAT...


The confused freshman....=P
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Hi Pops! (OK, it's late and it doesn't take much to amuse me.... I couldn't resist the twist on your pseudonym!
wink.gif
)

So, are you a college freshman? What year will you be starting in the fall (FR? SO?)?
This will help me to help you better.

Don't say no one replies in the dental forum....I do when I know the response! But I agree that we need to increase traffic there. I don't mind giving my opinion or known facts, but I know there have to be more folks out there w/their 2 cents to offer... I also want some dental-specific advice!

{Calling all dental folk!!! Hear ye, hear ye! }

OK, the DAT... How hard is it? Well, how hard did you think the SAT was? Same kind of answer here. If you're well-prepared, no test is out of reach. A lot depends on what kind of test taker you are. I did quite well on the DAT (and also SAT), but I also spent a fair amount of time preparing. The DAT's science questions do not have an associated passage--so if you like MCAT-style questions with passages to try to deduce an answer, you're outta luck on the DAT. It's 100 questions on bio, chem, and orgo to be answered within 90 minutes. To me, most of the orgo questions focused more on 1st semester than 2nd sem (but the sample DAT booklet can give you a clue there on topics). The other thing that's probably unlike anything you've ever done before is the Perceptual Ability section (otherwise known as PAT). You really do need to practice for these questions. And obviously, anyone attempting to become a dentist should have good 2-D and 3-D visual perception. Again, the fact that the reading comp. passages are all science-based could be a pro or a con, depending on your perspective and background. For me, it was a plus. Now, as I mentioned in another post, the other thing to consider is that the test is offered only on computer (while the MCAT is only pencil/paper). So that means your reading comp. and PAT Q's are on the screen, as are quantitative and science Q's requiring calcn's. If you're used to writing in your test booklet, you have to change your strategy. They do give you scrap paper, though. So, I guess I'd say that the DAT is not easy, but I found it quite manageable. However, others may disagree w/me. You'll have to judge for yourself.

You want to study for the DAT after you've taken your science pre-req's, namely intro bio, intro chem, and organic chem (all 1 year, w/lab). The beauty of the DAT is that there's no physics; so, while you'll need to take a year of physics w/lab to get into dental school, you don't need it for the DAT. (You could say that the PAT is kinda instead of Physics.)

GPA...I'll have to look 'em up for you. I think most schools have an average GPA of roughly 3.5 for their matriculants, and similar science GPA, but I can double check. A 3.2 is prob. fine. Most schools recommend above a 3.0.

Columbia is one of the harder schools to get into. (I'm still hoping to get admitted off their alternate list! Wish me luck!
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) Columbia is one of only 3 Ivy League dental schools, the others being UPenn and Harvard. So, standards for admission are pretty high.
The other factor in admission, which you've probably noticed from other med. posts, is that your legal state of residence when you apply can either help you or hurt you. If you apply to an in-state school, it will likely help you, but if you apply where you're considered an out-of-stater, it will make it much, much harder for you to get in (except perhaps at a private school). But of course, private schools are more $$.

In the long run, it really doesn't matter where you go to dental school since they're all accredited and thus have to meet certain standards to stay in existence (this from my health professions advisor). However, each dental school does have some differences. Some place more emphasis on early clinical experience, others more biomedical curriculum (even taken w/med students). Some strongly encourage research. Location (rural/inner city)? Special programs/degrees like MBA, MPH in add'n to dentistry? You just need to determine what you want in a program to figure out where to apply.

Hope I've enlightened you somewhat...
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You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
--Eleanor Roosevelt
 
hey DentalDi
What are average DAT and PAT for accepted students. Also do you mind telling your DAT and PAT scores. My sister is interested in Dental School and I'm curious about the stats. Thanks.
Joe
 
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Hi Joe,

OK, now I've got my AADS Admissions Requirements Book 2000-2001 in front of me, so I can give you more informed data. (Don't ask me why, but the year of the book apparently refers to the year class would start if you get in to school.) If your sis gets serious about applying (or even looking into) dental school, this is the book that she can order for ~$25 that gives all this info (and more!) on all American and Canadian dental schools. There's an updated version every year. Check the AADS web site for ordering info. Here's the site: http://www.aads.jhu.edu

OK, the data given is for first-time enrollees (instead of accepted students) in a table. I'm basing the following numbers on a scan of the table and not a scientific approach. Mean Academic DAT ranges from roughly 17 to 21 at various schools, and mean PAT seems to be from roughly 16 to 19. (All DAT scores are based on a total possible of 30, but 16-17 is an average score.) My acad. DAT was 21 (acc. to computer printout from the test center, that was ~96.5th percentile), and my PAT was 18 (about 83rd percentile). Mean overall GPA for enrollees seems to range from ~3.3-3.4. Mean science GPA is either approx. the same or 0.05-0.10 lower at each school. But of course, this is a mean, so that means (pardon the pun) that there are people with higher numbers and with lower numbers attending each school. Also, a few schools have significantly lower mean stats. So, I wouldn't rule myself out if my numbers weren't quite right but my application was otherwise compelling. (In fact, I'm trying to overcome a lower GPA, and I graduated 7 years ago.)

FYI, in addition to the academic and PAT averages, you also get subscores on the following: biology, chem, orgo, total science (a combo of the first three), reading comp, quant. analysis. Academic average encompasses everything but PAT section, which always stands alone score-wise.

Hope this was helpful!

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You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

[This message has been edited by DentalDi (edited 03-23-2000).]
 
thanks for the info DentalDi.
 
Thanks for the reply dentaldi
im a currently a freshman.... and i NEED to get into dental school. Uhm..im live in NJ so umdnj would be a good dental school to apply right.. Is this school any good??? i mean what is this school known for..from you said schools need like clinical stuff or academic stuff..i dunno...

o another really scary thing you told me..you need a 3.5 gpa or that is the avg... why is it so high... my advisor told me like 3.1 for umdnj and like 3.3 for columbia or upenn.. o what is MPh or Mba for dentristy... im confused...if i get that Mph or mba do i get more money?? you need this? any recommadation for dental school this area.. like a decent one...not too hard to get into...

another question.. why do dentists have such a bad image?? tell me..


The confused Freshamn...=)

[This message has been edited by popoman (edited 03-24-2000).]
 
Hi Popoman,

Since you're from NJ, UMDNJ would definitely be a good place to apply. I personally don't know too much about it, although I think I might have their brochure at home. If I get any vibes from that, I'll let you know. (For me, UMDNJ would've been a real long-shot since I'm from out-of-state.) Your best bet to find out more would be to get info from the school, order the book I've referred to in my reply to Joe (above), and at some point try to talk to students (most likely if you interview there). In the meantime, I'll bet the school has a web site. See the main Student Dr. page for dental links. To be perfectly clear on the book, here's the direct link: http://www.aads.jhu.edu/publications/admission_requirements.htm

Also, you'll note that I revised the GPA a little in my reply to Joe after looking at the book. The number I gave you was an educated guess, and I told you I wasn't sure of it. Obviously, the numbers that your advisor gave you are a little lower. Maybe your advisor is saying that you can get in w/those GPA's he/she is giving you (are they a recommended minimum???). You'll have to ask your advisor.

When I mentioned the MPH and MBA, these are additional programs (like a PhD) that some, but not all, schools offer in addition to the DDS or DMD degree. So, in other words, you could do more coursework and come out w/a dual degree like DDS, MPH or DDS, MBA. As for influence on your salary, I don't know. You should be concerned with getting an education that matches your goals.

You seem to be extremely concerned with money, judging from this thread (and some of your other posts). As other folks have noted, if $$ is your only or main concern, you may find other careers that are a quicker means to that end. Make sure that you explore dentistry and other potential careers in depth before you decide what's right for you. I'm only saying this so you can stop and examine what YOU want (and not your parents or someone else)--if you make the wrong decision you could end up very unhappy and dissatisfied w/what you are doing. Good luck!

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You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
--Eleanor Roosevelt


[This message has been edited by DentalDi (edited 03-27-2000).]
 
DentalDi (or anyone else who knows this)
How are the GPA marks converted into percentages (for instance how much is 3.3 GPA as reported in that dentistry admission book) Also, what would 75% correspond to in GPA?
Thanks in advance!
 
hi...thanks for the replay dentaldi

its not only the money that i want to become a dentist... but still its kinda important..
i wanted to do dentistry a long time ago, but i wasnt really sure. i got into a 7 year dental progrom in tufts but i didnt go because i wanted to do med. But now i want to do dentistry because dentists have more time and freedom than a Medical doctor.. i cant or want to handle all that work..its not for me.. also i really think i will make a good dentist.... i dunno why tho..=P
so. i have to get into a good dental school, but if i dont get in...what am i suppose to do... major in biology??? to do what!!!


The Confused Freshman....=(
 
Hi Popoman,

I give you credit for already stopping to re-examine your goals. As I've told parts of my own story in various posts, I also went through a lot trying to find the right career path. It's not easy, but when you find the right thing, it's worth it--your own sanity and happiness in the long run! As for the money, it will come--obviously, no one can predict what managed care will or won't do. But of course, so too will the loans, both for school and your ultimate practice.

I honestly think it's very hard to commit to something like a 7 year program that early on. People are very young and, in my opinion, haven't really had enough experiences both in school and in life to make a truly informed career decision at that point. Essentially, that's like asking a 17 year old to decide what they want to be for the rest of their life. So many people don't even know what they want to major in 'til halfway through college, let alone their career! So, give yourself a break--you obviously weren't ready to make that decision then, but now you've thought about things some more and have come to the conclusion you want dentistry after all. I still believe that it's a valuable experience to have given yourself the chance to explore something else (like medicine). (So much for my little pep talk!)

Anyhow, you're right that dentistry offers more freedom than medicine seems to, but both professions (and the schools training future professionals) are still plenty of work. You have to be prepared to work hard. The hard work to get into school is just the beginning (or so I've heard
smile.gif
). Since you seem unsure of exactly why you want dentistry or why you would make a good one (I wasn't sure exactly what you meant), you might find that you'll clarify your reasoning the more you explore the profession. If you can shadow a dentist, you might be amazed at your reaction. You might discover exactly why you want dentistry; yet again, you might find out, hey, this isn't for me after all. I really think each person has their own reasons for doing what they do. To pursue one of the health professions, you have to be strongly motivated--again, it's a long, hard road. You don't want to embark on this long journey only to discover halfway through that you really don't like it and are stuck.

As for what to do if you don't get in, start developing a backup plan, but don't freak out yet since you're a ways off from applying! By exploring other fields, you'll do double duty--you'll clarify that you want to be a dentist, and you'll have an idea of what you might see yourself doing if that doesn't work out. As for putting pressure on yourself to get into a "good" dental school--don't do it. My feeling is that you'll get a good education anywhere--it's just that some places might be a little better fit for you than others. If you order that Admissions Requirements book, it'll help you figure out where you might want to apply. (I'm beginning to feel like AADSAS should give me a commission for continuing to plug their book!!
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)

As for majors, choose something you're interested in. Believe it or not, I'm a biology major. Just a bachelor's in bio has allowed me to support myself for the past 6-7 years as a Research Assistant. Research is something else you could potentially explore to see if you like it. You might like to get a bio and business background and work in biotech or the pharmaceutical industry--either in research or the business end of things. Maybe the thought of patent law turns you on... Maybe you'd like to be involved in fundraising for a biotech company and convincing people to invest in the company...The list goes on. Just talk to people who do things you might be interested in. That's the best thing I can tell you. Keep an open mind!!

------------------
You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
--Eleanor Roosevelt
 
Hi AC,

I don't have an exact answer for you, but it's a step in the right direction.

Here's the conversion for GPA --> letter grade (not percent) that was used at my college. I think this is pretty universal. If not, someone tell me! Another possible source would be the application packet (you usually have to code your coursework) or your pre-health professions advisor.

4.00 = A
3.67 = A-
3.33 = B+
3.00 = B
2.67 = B-
2.33 = C+
2.00 = C
1.67 = D+
1.33 = D
1.00 = D-
0.00 = F

So, usually a B- would be 80-(82 or 83%).
A B would be (82 or 83)-(86 or 87%).
A B+ would be 87-89.9%.
(Perhaps someone in school can refresh my memory for the exact cutoffs between plus/minus.)

So, a 75% (or a solid C) would be around 2.00 GPA.

Maybe someone else has a better answer...but this is a rough start.
biggrin.gif


------------------
You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

[This message has been edited by DentalDi (edited 03-28-2000).]
 
hi hi ...dentaldi

you seem to answer everything i ask.. thank you =)


The confused freshman...=)
 
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Hi Popoman,

You're most welcome! I hope it helps you a little. Good luck to you!
biggrin.gif


--DD

------------------
You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
--Eleanor Roosevelt
 
:) ok I am going into my sophomore year in college at the University of Missouri-Columbia! and I am interested in dentisty but i want to be an Orthodontist, How would I go About that, if anyone coud reply i would be greatfull.Thankz...:D




*The Clueless One*
~!DRu!~
 
:) ok I am going into my sophomore year in college at the University of Missouri-Columbia! and I am interested in dentisty but i want to be an Orthodontist, How would I go About that, if anyone coud reply i would be greatfull.Thankz...:D




*The Clueless One*
~!DRu!~

@_@

Did you just revive a SEVEN YEAR OLD THREAD?!!?
 
keep your gpa above 3.o and youll be compettitive. for columbia, youd probably want ur gpa around the 3.4 and up range with dat's in the 20 and up range. shouldnt be too tough, as there is no physics or verbal reasoning like the mcat. its not tooo difficult to get into a dental school, as long as your not anal about where u wanna go,. plus, all dental schools are good schools, there no bad school. some may be lower tier, but your success is really all up to you. good luck. i was a pretty big pre-dent at one point in my life, so if you have any other questions, eel free to pm me. if your interested in columbia, schools with similar stats are upenn. great school also. if your trying to stay ivy, harvarg average stats rang in the 3.5 plus range.
 
:) ok I am going into my sophomore year in college at the University of Missouri-Columbia! and I am interested in dentisty but i want to be an Orthodontist, How would I go About that, if anyone coud reply i would be greatfull.Thankz...:D




*The Clueless One*
~!DRu!~

kick butt in undergrad, kick butt in dental school, then specialize. i believe ortho is an extra 3 or 4 years after dental school
 
:) ok I am going into my sophomore year in college at the University of Missouri-Columbia! and I am interested in dentisty but i want to be an Orthodontist, How would I go About that, if anyone coud reply i would be greatfull.Thankz...:D




*The Clueless One*
~!DRu!~
Moving to Pre-Dental
 
My acad. DAT was 21 (acc. to computer printout from the test center, that was ~96.5th percentile), and my PAT was 18 (about 83rd percentile).

In year 2000.
 
Hi..yes im back =P
Here comes another freshman question..
I guess this is not the Forum to discuss dental stuff but.. NO ONE replies in the dental section so im asking it here..

How hard is the test "DAT"... and what is a good gpa for dental school.. around northeast dental schools.... O i want to get into columbia dental school.. how hard is it to get in there??? Does it really matter what dental school i go??? and... i dunno...
o when to study for DAT...


The confused freshman....=P
---

see www.adea.org/Resources/Og/Og_3_WhereToApply.pdf
 
hahahha i didn't realize this thread was so old! Looks like popoman never made it to dental school..

is it just me or do people seem nicer back 7 years ago?
 
I was a freshman in college when this thread came out. :laugh:
Quite a few soon to be entering dental students were still in high school. Man Ive been in college too long.

Ya those people did seam to answer the question pretty thoroughly. for the most part the answer still holds true.
 
keep your gpa above 3.o and youll be compettitive. for columbia, youd probably want ur gpa around the 3.4 and up range with dat's in the 20 and up range. shouldnt be too tough, as there is no physics or verbal reasoning like the mcat. its not tooo difficult to get into a dental school, as long as your not anal about where u wanna go,. plus, all dental schools are good schools, there no bad school. some may be lower tier, but your success is really all up to you. good luck. i was a pretty big pre-dent at one point in my life, so if you have any other questions, eel free to pm me. if your interested in columbia, schools with similar stats are upenn. great school also. if your trying to stay ivy, harvarg average stats rang in the 3.5 plus range.

GPA above 3.0 to be competitive?! You must be thinking of entrance stats from when this post was actually started! If you have a 3.0 you will not be competitive anywhere these days. The average GPA for entering students was 3.5 last year with a DAT above 19. Harvards average was nearly 3.8 with over a 24 DAT score. Check out www.predents.com to see what the most recent stats are for entering students at the schools you are interested in.
 
NAVY, I think you might be really confused. Predents.com has all the new cycle info up and it has always been accurate in the past three cycles. Make sure you are not thinking about predents.com user profile sections where predents put their scores online and averages are totalled on applicant sections.

The ADEA's numbers are on that site, including on each school's section, and they are officially verified. There is a stark difference between going by the user-reported averages on that site and the ADEA info posted in the exact same areas. All the latest ADEA info is in each school's section, as well as the drop-down menu on the frontpage that says "Ranking".

No need to repost all that info on this site since predents.com already has you covered. Just make sure you aren't looking at the user averages, which I agree are not accurate.
 
GPA above 3.0 to be competitive?! You must be thinking of entrance stats from when this post was actually started! If you have a 3.0 you will not be competitive anywhere these days. The average GPA for entering students was 3.5 last year with a DAT above 19. Harvards average was nearly 3.8 with over a 24 DAT score. Check out www.predents.com to see what the most recent stats are for entering students at the schools you are interested in.

im sorry, did i offend you? i said competitive with a 3.0 plus gpa if you dont mind where you go, and i said harvards average gpa was 3.5+ which is what a 3.8 is. btw, i know a few of my predent friends who got into dental school at USC AND UCSF AND UCLA this past year with ok dat scores and a gpa under 3.0. and no, they were not under respresented minorities and did not have any extenuating circumstances. They were just gool ol american boys from california.
 
im sorry, did i offend you? i said competitive with a 3.0 plus gpa if you dont mind where you go, and i said harvards average gpa was 3.5+ which is what a 3.8 is. btw, i know a few of my predent friends who got into dental school at USC AND UCSF AND UCLA this past year with ok dat scores and a gpa under 3.0. and no, they were not under respresented minorities and did not have any extenuating circumstances. They were just gool ol american boys from california.

by american i think you mean caucasian...
 
I was a freshman in college when this thread came out. :laugh:
Quite a few soon to be entering dental students were still in high school. Man Ive been in college too long.

Ya those people did seam to answer the question pretty thoroughly. for the most part the answer still holds true.

Wow. What was I doing in March of 2000? I think I was stressing over my upcoming high school graduation and trying to figure out ways to get into my prom date's pants! My, how times have changed...
 
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