Debt pissing contest

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What is your debt (estimated or actual) upon graduation?

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pathologyDO said:
Well rich can mean either upper class, or, it can be somewhat of a subjective idea.

I do not think that making 250k a year, which turns out to be something around 125k a year after taxes, can make you rich. You work 40 years you can save back 5 mil total, and with investing and interest rates that are good enough maybe add another 1 or 2 mil. Then look at Joe Schmoe making maybe 30K per year post taxes, which after 40 years is 1.2 mil. To me comparing 1.2 to 5 mil doesn't at all make a doctors salary rich comparatively.

If you own a successful PP and make $1mil a year or something.... Maybe we can talk about you hitting it rich. But that is very rare.
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I don't know too much about tax rate, but that 50% tax rate is high on a 250k salary unless the state that person is in have state tax, county tax, municipality tax etc...
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W19 said:
I don't know too much about tax rate, but that 50% tax rate is high on a 250k salary unless the state that person is in have state tax, county tax, municipality tax etc...
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Yeah you clearly don't know much about tax rate. Yes, most states have what is called "state taxes" (shocking, I know) and that is added to your federal taxes, as well as your social security cuts, medicare/Medicaid, etc. so in the end 50% is pretty accurate for many people in the physician salary range of $200+ ( we will leave out the poor FM/peds people )
 
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DermViser said:
Still doesn't depreciate in value. You can lose your medical license in one state, but you can also practice in another state and get a license there. Heck there are many MDs who don't even practice medicine period and go into other sectors (public policy, pharma, biotech, hospital admin, etc.) and one of their credentials they carry is the MD.
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You can practice in another state until whatever happened in the first state catches up to you....
 
sazerac said:
You know, I've seen this sentiment a lot on SDN throughout the years, and I think it may explain why we are feeling the financial crunch. Ask any SDN member, up to his or her eyeballs in student debt, what they plan to do when they are making bank, and one of the first things they say is Pay for my children's education instead of letting them fall into student debt. In another words, not only are we paying educational costs for ourselves, but we have the burden of multiple educational costs for the next generation too.

Maybe that is the ultimate in physician delayed gratification... paying multiple student debts for 40 or 50 years, so that at least our children can keep everything they earn in their 20s and beyond.
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Don't have kids.
Have a money vault like scrooge mcduck!
 
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GroverPsychMD said:
Lots of other graduate schools cost the same if not more...
Jd, psyd...
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You can get significant scholarships at ****ty law schools, if you have decent stats. I mean the chances of working as a lawyer are lower than an MD working as a doc, DMD working as a dentist, etc., but the idea is that law school isn't necessarily as expensive as med school.
 
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TeddyMeddy said:
Side hustle being an experimental subject? Get a part-time research job at the med school or nearby during preclinical? You just need 5,500 of annual earned income. What's more, you can contribute up to April for the previous year. So maybe you'll miss a year or two during clinical years but it's just important to do the best you can.

Once you get your Roth rolling, fahgettaboutit and enjoy the completely tax-free cash later on in life. It would be great for a grandchild's medical education. Or for paying down our national debt to China. Whatever you want to do with it.
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:rolleyes:
 
Oh god, four poor souls over 600....what the hell
 
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AlmostAnMD said:
The "average" indebtedness is around $170,000. I find that laughable since I'm not on any scholarship assistance.

Just wondering who here has the worst debt from medical school (if you feel like sharing) and what your plans are to pay it back.

Myself, I'll be at around $300k when finished.

My fiancee is faculty at the institution I want to match into and apparently they have a spouse matching program that lets people without a red flag match there. I only bring that up because she has a very good job there and said she'd pay my interest while I use my salary to pay off the base. Starting PGY 2 or 3 I'll hopefully moonlight like crazy. I don't want to do IBR for X number of years I just want this debt gone.

No option in poll for <$100,000 since I don't care about you.
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You should have left the <100k bracket so we could see how many people end up with no debt to help explain average debt figures being as low as they are.
 
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pathologyDO said:
Yeah you clearly don't know much about tax rate. Yes, most states have what is called "state taxes" (shocking, I know) and that is added to your federal taxes, as well as your social security cuts, medicare/Medicaid, etc. so in the end 50% is pretty accurate for many people in the physician salary range of $200+ ( we will leave out the poor FM/peds people )
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Yeah neither do you bud. Only in the absolute worst case scenario (living in some expensive locality in california, single, with nothing to deduct ever, never socking anything away into a 401k/IRA) would you even come close to getting half your salary cut at 250K. Go ahead and try it. It's in no way "pretty accurate" for "many people".
 
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calvnandhobbs68 said:
Yeah neither do you bud. Only in the absolute worst case scenario (living in some expensive locality in california, single, with nothing to deduct ever, never socking anything away into a 401k/IRA) would you even come close to getting half your salary cut at 250K. Go ahead and try it. It's in no way "pretty accurate" for "many people".
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Honestly it is not exactly 50% tax rate but it can come pretty close in some areas of the country where there just so happen to be a ton of physicians located (California, New York, etc). That in mind you're right. The federal tax rate on $250,000 is 33% which comes out to $63,0000 (as per IRS calculator). Then you have, in my case, Missouri taxes, which is $6,100 (as per MO tax calculator). Then you have SS and Medicare, which come out to another $6,000 (as per FICA calculator). So 63 + 6 + 6 ~ $85,000 withheld, which also doesn't include any local taxes.

$250-$85 = $165K. Alright so its not quite as low as $125k. Maybe I should have said a person living in a state with relatively cheaper or average state tax rate will have ~ 34% taken out. Its still a lot, regardless, and again this is an example of Missouri which as far as I know has a very reasonable tax rate compared to East/West coast states.
 
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Mine is going to be below 80K and I'm scared.
 
xffan624 said:
That includes HPSP and prior military using benefits as well. There's about 9-11 students in my class alone which comprises about 6% of the class.
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Oh, HPSP and military definitely doesn't count. I guess I'm more talking about the kids whose parents pay their entire tuition and fees out-of-pocket.
 
pathologyDO said:
For undergrad?
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No, undergrad debt free for me.

Med school or dental school, whichever I go is going to be less than 80K.

I feel really luckily to have a so low tuition here.
 
pathologyDO said:
Yeah you clearly don't know much about tax rate. Yes, most states have what is called "state taxes" (shocking, I know) and that is added to your federal taxes, as well as your social security cuts, medicare/Medicaid, etc. so in the end 50% is pretty accurate for many people in the physician salary range of $200+ ( we will leave out the poor FM/peds people )
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This really isn't true. You need to read WhiteCoastInvestor's blog.
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/10-reasons-why-i-pay-less-tax-than-mitt-romney/
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/doctors-dont-pay-50-of-their-income-in-taxes/
 
pathologyDO said:
Well rich can mean either upper class, or, it can be somewhat of a subjective idea.

I do not think that making 250k a year, which turns out to be something around 125k a year after taxes, can make you rich. You work 40 years you can save back 5 mil total, and with investing and interest rates that are good enough maybe add another 1 or 2 mil. Then look at Joe Schmoe making maybe 30K per year post taxes, which after 40 years is 1.2 mil. To me comparing 1.2 to 5 mil doesn't at all make a doctors salary rich comparatively.

If you own a successful PP and make $1mil a year or something.... Maybe we can talk about you hitting it rich. But that is very rare.
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Using the 4% rule, retiring with a $5million nestegg means you can live on 200K. On a $1.2million retirement, you're looking at a sparse $48K per annum that you can pull out (a decidedly middle class amount). I would consider that difference very significant.

Just to play devil's advocate, here's some more reading:
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/physicians-are-rich-guest-post/
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/personal-finance/how-to-get-rich/
 
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I'm not saying it isn't significant. What I am saying is, you will not be "rich" - I will read the links though for another perspective, but I'm telling ya, physicians aren't rich!



Entadus said:
Using the 4% rule, retiring with a $5million nestegg means you can live on 200K. On a $1.2million retirement, you're looking at a sparse $48K per annum that you can pull out (a decidedly middle class amount). I would consider that difference very significant.

Just to play devil's advocate, here's some more reading:
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/physicians-are-rich-guest-post/
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/personal-finance/how-to-get-rich/
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Entadus said:
$200K per year in retirement isn't rich? o_O
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I_Want_Moar.jpg
 
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You guys that htink you can moonlight and pay off 150k in debt are nuts. We moonlight for 60/hour as PGY2's and 180/hour as PGY3' and we won't supplement our income by more than 20k during the two years. It's a nice bonus at the end of a month, but it's not going to do jack to your debt.
 
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Not gunna lie, kinda want that cat.
 
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pathologyDO said:
Honestly it is not exactly 50% tax rate but it can come pretty close in some areas of the country where there just so happen to be a ton of physicians located (California, New York, etc). That in mind you're right. The federal tax rate on $250,000 is 33% which comes out to $63,0000 (as per IRS calculator). Then you have, in my case, Missouri taxes, which is $6,100 (as per MO tax calculator). Then you have SS and Medicare, which come out to another $6,000 (as per FICA calculator). So 63 + 6 + 6 ~ $85,000 withheld, which also doesn't include any local taxes.

$ 250-$85 = $165K. Alright so its not quite as low as $125k. Maybe I should have said a person living in a state with relatively cheaper or average state tax rate will have ~ 34% taken out.Its still a lot, regardless, and again this is an example of Missouri which as far as I know has a very reasonable tax rate compared to East/West coast states.
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That is a huge difference.... That is 40k difference, which if you save for 10 years will be 400k...
 
W19 said:
That is a huge difference.... That is 40k difference, which if you save for 10 years will be 400k...
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A little late to the party but yes, we have established I was wrong.
 
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calvnandhobbs68 said:
Yeah neither do you bud. Only in the absolute worst case scenario (living in some expensive locality in california, single, with nothing to deduct ever, never socking anything away into a 401k/IRA) would you even come close to getting half your salary cut at 250K. Go ahead and try it. It's in no way "pretty accurate" for "many people".
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I knew it could not be that high, but I don't like to argue about stuff that have not done my homework on...
 
fahimaz7 said:
You guys that htink you can moonlight and pay off 150k in debt are nuts. We moonlight for 60/hour as PGY2's and 180/hour as PGY3' and we won't supplement our income by more than 20k during the two years. It's a nice bonus at the end of a month, but it's not going to do jack to your debt.
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These people think at the end of residency they can pay off their entire student loan debt in less than 5 years (bc they'll have no other expenses, of course).
 
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There's only one way to find out :banana:

No but seriously. Student debt sucks
 
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Speaking of debt and such, I'm browsing some quotes on healthcare plans and for me and my wife, both having no pre-existing conditions, no smoking, etc, young age, we cost $500+ /mo for bronze plans? That can't be right can it?
 
pathologyDO said:
Speaking of debt and such, I'm browsing some quotes on healthcare plans and for me and my wife, both having no pre-existing conditions, no smoking, etc, young age, we cost $500+ /mo for bronze plans? That can't be right can it?
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That sounds pretty high, but it depends on where you live. It's around that much for a semester via my schools plan. My wife gets it through work: she pays significantly less, for better coverage.
 
pathologyDO said:
Speaking of debt and such, I'm browsing some quotes on healthcare plans and for me and my wife, both having no pre-existing conditions, no smoking, etc, young age, we cost $500+ /mo for bronze plans? That can't be right can it?
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Congrats! You get to pay for those diabetics/lifetime smoker/obese insurance consumers who can't afford to pay the full amount for their heath insurance.
 
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Meh.meh said:
That sounds pretty high, but it depends on where you live. It's around that much for a semester via my schools plan. My wife gets it through work: she pays significantly less, for better coverage.
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Presumably the employer is covering a large percentage of this premium.
 
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