Debating Road to Ophthalmology.

[SimpleS]

I've already been accepted to an optometry school, But I am seriously considering ophthalmology. Here's my issue: I'm in my late 20's, if I decide to go into MD school I would have to wait 'til 2009 to enter, as opposed to 2008 in optometry. I'm not exactly sure how it works after MD school to become specialized in ophthalmology, but ball-park estimate is probably another 4 yrs after MD, which will put me in my mid 30s to practice as an OMD. Another problem I have is, after MD, is it pretty easy to attain a residency in ophthalmology? Because I know I only want to deal with the eyes. Should I risk going to MD school and finding out opthalmology residencies aren't as easy to attain as I would like and be stuck with a general MD? Or should I go the really long, but thorough route and attain an OD/MD and be in my late 30s to practice as an OMD, BUT...be a well rounded eye specialist with my combined degrees? HELP! I'm very ambitious and I just want to reach my max potential! Any advice will help!!!

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[SimpleS]

Is anyone here an OD/MD or know anyone who is? Do you have any regrets about NOT immediately going to MD school? Or are you completely happy about initially earning your OD before MD? Is it really a distinct and significant advantage to have the OD when applying for Ophthalmology matches? I am really leaning towards the long road, only because I would really love to be a very comprehensive eye specialist .

Does anyone know if the Military offers ophthalmology residencies? Is it worth it to do a military residency after MD? I don't know exactly how it works, but I think it would be awesome if I can get them to pay for my MD while I'm serving my time with them and getting my internship/residency experience out of the way plus getting paid as an officer? But again, I'm not familiar with this process and have no idea of my ideas are plausible .

Any advice is again very much appreciated!

 

[MAYOphtho]

Is anyone here an OD/MD or know anyone who is? Do you have any regrets about NOT immediately going to MD school? Or are you completely happy about initially earning your OD before MD? Is it really a distinct and significant advantage to have the OD when applying for Ophthalmology matches? I am really leaning towards the long road, only because I would really love to be a very comprehensive eye specialist .

Does anyone know if the Military offers ophthalmology residencies? Is it worth it to do a military residency after MD? I don't know exactly how it works, but I think it would be awesome if I can get them to pay for my MD while I'm serving my time with them and getting my internship/residency experience out of the way plus getting paid as an officer? But again, I'm not familiar with this process and have no idea of my ideas are plausible .

Any advice is again very much appreciated!

so a few of your questions...the Ophthalmology match is considered anywhere from the 3rd-6th most competitive field (with Plastics, Derm and Rad Onc usually considered by many as the most selective). Rads, Neurosurg, Ophtho, and Ortho are some of the other most competitive fields (I'm sure I forgot one or two, so no need to post here to tell me what I forgot)...so going to MD school doesnt guarantee an Ophtho residency spot...but working hard in med school and knowing the right people can certainly help.

additionally, I'm sure if you get an OD first then apply through and MD program that can only help you to get an Ophtho spot in the long term

lastly, the military does offer Ophtho spots. there arent as many of those, but not being in the military I cannot comment for the selectivity of those. Dr Doan I believe is an attending at the SD Navy ophtho residency, so maybe ask him his thoughts on those

good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[speyeder]

I've already been accepted to an optometry school, But I am seriously considering ophthalmology. Here's my issue: I'm in my late 20's, if I decide to go into MD school I would have to wait 'til 2009 to enter, as opposed to 2008 in optometry. I'm not exactly sure how it works after MD school to become specialized in ophthalmology, but ball-park estimate is probably another 4 yrs after MD, which will put me in my mid 30s to practice as an OMD. Another problem I have is, after MD, is it pretty easy to attain a residency in ophthalmology? Because I know I only want to deal with the eyes. Should I risk going to MD school and finding out opthalmology residencies aren't as easy to attain as I would like and be stuck with a general MD? Or should I go the really long, but thorough route and attain an OD/MD and be in my late 30s to practice as an OMD, BUT...be a well rounded eye specialist with my combined degrees? HELP! I'm very ambitious and I just want to reach my max potential! Any advice will help!!!

As the previous post mentioned, ophtho is considered one of the most competitive fields to match into. If you go the med school route and can't match into ophtho, what are you going to do? Not practice medicine? Then you will have wasted 4 years and put yourself in a lot of debt. If you then go on to practice as an optometrist with an MD degree, you will almost certainly make less than even a general practitioner in medicine. You will not be compensated more as an OD/MD and it will not allow you to expand the scope of your practice. So from an economic standpoint it's not worth it.

If you know that you definitely want to deal with eyes, then my advice is to go to optometry school. Med school is a long, grueling journey, and at the end of the journey there is no guarantee that you'll end up in the specialty of your choice.

 

[Caffeinated]

SimpleS,

It sounds like you and I need to talk. I am an OD turned MD, currently in my intern year, and will start ophthalmology residency on July 1 of this year. I started optometry school at the age of 23, practiced for 3 years, and started med school at 30. I was on an Army scholarship for optometry school, and practiced as an active duty optometrist for all 3 years of my OD career (with a small amount of civilian moonlighting on the side). From there, I went to Uniformed Services University in Bethesda, Maryland -- the military medical school. My internship and residency will both be at an Army medical center.

It sounds like I won't be able to properly answer your questions in a single post, so feel free to send me a PM.

Is anyone here an OD/MD or know anyone who is? Do you have any regrets about NOT immediately going to MD school? Or are you completely happy about initially earning your OD before MD? Is it really a distinct and significant advantage to have the OD when applying for Ophthalmology matches? I am really leaning towards the long road, only because I would really love to be a very comprehensive eye specialist .

Does anyone know if the Military offers ophthalmology residencies? Is it worth it to do a military residency after MD? I don't know exactly how it works, but I think it would be awesome if I can get them to pay for my MD while I'm serving my time with them and getting my internship/residency experience out of the way plus getting paid as an officer? But again, I'm not familiar with this process and have no idea of my ideas are plausible .

Any advice is again very much appreciated!

 

[vtrain]

Is anyone here an OD/MD or know anyone who is? Do you have any regrets about NOT immediately going to MD school? Or are you completely happy about initially earning your OD before MD? Is it really a distinct and significant advantage to have the OD when applying for Ophthalmology matches? I am really leaning towards the long road, only because I would really love to be a very comprehensive eye specialist .

Does anyone know if the Military offers ophthalmology residencies? Is it worth it to do a military residency after MD? I don't know exactly how it works, but I think it would be awesome if I can get them to pay for my MD while I'm serving my time with them and getting my internship/residency experience out of the way plus getting paid as an officer? But again, I'm not familiar with this process and have no idea of my ideas are plausible .

Any advice is again very much appreciated!

I don't regret doing optometry before medical school. However, I knew that I wanted to go on to do ophthalmology from day one of med school, so I knew my previous training wouldn't be a waste. If I decided that I wanted to do something else in medicine, then I would've regretted it a little, but still wouldn't have seen it as a complete waste, as it was a growing process in my life. For the most part, I will say that there is indeed an advantage to applying to the ophtho match as a optometrist. As I was doing ophtho electives in 4th years, I was able to see my own patients and present to attendings - I think that mades a good impression. Plus being in the eye field, I was comfortable with the terminology and eye lingo, so at least I could fake my way pretending to know what I was talking about . Plus during interviews, many interviewers were intrigued at my path and it gave for something to talk about. The long road is long, but you truly will be a comprehensive ophthalmologist. From what I've seen in training so far, programs don't stress enough on refracting, optics and different lens choices like they do in optometry, so you will have a very comprehensive training from that standpoint. Also, I don't feel as if you are losing those years of your life. I enjoyed thoroughly my optometry school years and wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

[trail doc]

I think the military is a bad choice for anyone who is in a hurry to complete their training, or has a highly competitive, overmanned (Navy ophtho is manned at 125% now) specialty like ophthalmology in mind. The Navy trains 2-3 residents per year, and tends to be more competitive than the civilian match.

 

[Caffeinated]

I think the military is a bad choice for anyone who is in a hurry to complete their training, or has a highly competitive, overmanned (Navy ophtho is manned at 125% now) specialty like ophthalmology in mind. The Navy trains 2-3 residents per year, and tends to be more competitive than the civilian match.

The Army, on the other hand, has 7 slots per year divided between 3 hospitals. The slots are largely pre-selected positions, meaning that you apply for your intern year and ophtho residency at the same time as part of one continuous contract. I think there were only 4 applicants this year. Like other specialties, there is an ebb and flow. There might be 25 applicants next year.

 

[diosa428]

You might want to think about the differences between OD school and MD school. While OD school is focused on the eyes, MD school is focused on the entire body. I think during our basic science courses, we easily had <10 lectures on the eye/eye pathology. Also, ophthalmology is an elective - NOT a required rotation. You will spend the majority of your time, both preclinically and clinically, learning about every other system in the body. If you think that you would rather be an ophthalmologist than an optometrist, this is definitely the way to go. But if you really just want to work with the eye, you might be miserable for 4 years in MD school.

 

[Wolverine98]

Then you will have wasted 4 years and put yourself in a lot of debt. If you then go on to practice as an optometrist with an MD degree, you will almost certainly make less than even a general practitioner in medicine.

I would disagree with this. Based on the optometrists I know, and the gp's I know, you could expect to make significantly more as an optometrist than many gp, fp, and pediatricians.

Dave

 

[vtrain]

I would disagree with this. Based on the optometrists I know, and the gp's I know, you could expect to make significantly more as an optometrist than many gp, fp, and pediatricians.

Dave

I agree - If you open up a high end optical, it could be very lucrative. That's a potential positive side of optometry. There's definitely a retail/business aspect to it and it can be appealing and challenging - depends on how you look at it. While an optometrist with a retail component to his/her practice in addition to hiring a few associates, pulling in$200K+/year isn't the norm (the norm is now unfortunately corporate for new grads), it certainly is attainable

 

[TAMMY07]

.....certainly go for Med school. Optometry is 4 yrs anyways by that time you will finish med school. getting into ophtho is difficult but it is not impossible for an american medical graduate.
i know people who finished optometry then went into med school to get into ophthalmology because they were not happy.
if you ae amitious as you stated go for med school and ophtho...you can certainly do it.
good luck!

 

[SimpleS]

What are the deadlines for med school? Do I even have a chance to get into a med school for the entering class of 2008 (highly doubt it, but I thought I'd ask)? What exactly are the differences between MD and DO? Is there a significant difference or advantages to having an MD after your name when applying for matches as opposed to DO (not to offend anyone, just curious)? There is a Touro DO school where I live (Las Vegas), debating whether I should apply there. Most of my shadowing have been for an optometrist, will letters of recommendation from ODs be acceptable for MD school or will I have to get a letter of recommendation from an MD? I have 3.6 overall GPA, 3.4 science GPA, BS biology w/ minor in chemistry, worked full-time throughout undergrad to pay for school (no loans), EC's through church activities and different sports activities, didn't have time for research or journal publications, OAT of TS 350/AA 330 (6 days to prepare with 4 hours of sleep). I realize I have to take the MCAT still though. Any advice? How many should I apply to to maximize my chances? Will it be worth applying to the "low-tier" MD schools or will it kill my chances of matching a specialty later on?

Any and all advice will help! Thanks in advance!

 

[MAYOphtho]

What are the deadlines for med school? Do I even have a chance to get into a med school for the entering class of 2008 (highly doubt it, but I thought I'd ask)? What exactly are the differences between MD and DO? Is there a significant difference or advantages to having an MD after your name when applying for matches as opposed to DO (not to offend anyone, just curious)? There is a Touro DO school where I live (Las Vegas), debating whether I should apply there. Most of my shadowing have been for an optometrist, will letters of recommendation from ODs be acceptable for MD school or will I have to get a letter of recommendation from an MD? I have 3.6 overall GPA, 3.4 science GPA, BS biology w/ minor in chemistry, worked full-time throughout undergrad to pay for school (no loans), EC's through church activities and different sports activities, didn't have time for research or journal publications, OAT of TS 350/AA 330 (6 days to prepare with 4 hours of sleep). I realize I have to take the MCAT still though. Any advice? How many should I apply to to maximize my chances? Will it be worth applying to the "low-tier" MD schools or will it kill my chances of matching a specialty later on?

Any and all advice will help! Thanks in advance!

are you from Vegas originally? I was a GVHS Gator anyways, there are DO and MD Ophtho programs...and for whatever reason a lot of ppl want to do the MD (allopathic) ophtho programs. coming from an MD school makes it a lot easier to land an allopathic spot (but does not guarantee it). obviously there are some DOs that always land allopathic spots as well, but they seem to be outstanding applicants from what i've gathered. so what's the rush, it's definately too late to join the entering class for med school in 2008, but about time to start thinking about applying for the class of 2009. By now most ppl have admissions to med schools and have til may to get rid of their multiple offers for THIS year.

 

[SimpleS]

I'm GVHS "alumni" also, lived here for most of my life ~16yrs. I've been accepted to optometry school to enter this year and am having second thoughts about it because of ophthalmology. My previous posts kinda explains my situation. I don't know if it's worth passing up on optometry to wait another year to get into MD, and with MD there's so much that's "not for sure". I realize I may change my mind about a specialty during MD school, but I'm really set on specializing on the eyes right now, hence optometry vs. ophthalmology dilemma. I don't even know what my chances are of getting into a "top" MD school, and I don't exactly know how competitive Ophtho matches are, or how they even select matches (i.e. MD school, research, etc., etc.). Any advice you have will be greatly appreciated Mayo! Thanks!

 

[diosa428]

I'm GVHS "alumni" also, lived here for most of my life ~16yrs. I've been accepted to optometry school to enter this year and am having second thoughts about it because of ophthalmology. My previous posts kinda explains my situation. I don't know if it's worth passing up on optometry to wait another year to get into MD, and with MD there's so much that's "not for sure". I realize I may change my mind about a specialty during MD school, but I'm really set on specializing on the eyes right now, hence optometry vs. ophthalmology dilemma. I don't even know what my chances are of getting into a "top" MD school, and I don't exactly know how competitive Ophtho matches are, or how they even select matches (i.e. MD school, research, etc., etc.). Any advice you have will be greatly appreciated Mayo! Thanks!

You might want to check out the pre-allo and pre-osteo forums to get an idea of how competitive your application would be for medical school. To give you an idea, the average GPA for matriculants is around a 3.65, and the average MCAT is around a 31. You generally need 3 letters of recommendation; usually at least one has to be from a science professor and at least one from a non-science professor, but the rules vary by school. I don't know if you could submit a letter from an OD, although I suppose you could if you actually worked for them (did you work for them? or just shadow them?). You don't need to go to a "top" MD school to get an ophtho residency - although it certainly would help, every (allopathic) school in the country has candidates matching into ophtho (sorry, I don't know much about the DO schools or the DO match). However, ophtho is a very competitive specialty, so you would have to do well in your classes and on your boards and you'd need good letters of rec, etc, when applying for residency. Since you already know that you want ophtho, it should make it relatively easy to get involved with your school's ophtho department early on, which will give you a better chance at a good letter of rec from them.

As someone already said, you can no longer apply for admission to the class of 2008. The application opens on June 1 and the deadlines are generally in the Oct - Dec range. However, if you do want to apply for next year, you should start thinking about it now, try to shadow some doctors or do some volunteering so you have some medically related stuff to add to your application (not that your optometry experiences aren't good, it would just benefit your app to have done some work with MDs probably). And you'll have to take the MCAT (it's not too late to start thinking about taking it in May/June).

Is it possible for you to defer your acceptance to optometry school for a year? Then you could take this year off, apply to med school, and also try to do some other medically related work to see if you like it. Then if it turns out you don't want medical school, or don't get in, you always have optometry school to fall back on. It might be better to take a year off now and make the right decision than end up on the wrong path.